Nester Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 Smart move to take the pressure off Wrong Josh. I would imagine failing as a starter two years in a row would wash him out. Put him in when he is ready and the Fitz magic wears out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 8 minutes ago, DolFAN93 said: 1. We keep Tunsil but our pass-rush suffers. We have a projected 13 picks in next year's draft and $120+ million in cap space next year. Draft your QB, sign or draft a DE, shore up OL in free agency, etc. Looks like Clowney doesn't want to go to Miami. I also think Hapless' quote below that the Dolphins are not going to tank has merit since they attempted to get Clowney, even if ultimately unsuccessful. Might as well keep Tunsil (and avoid a team wide revolt) while further developing Rosen in a scheme (E-P) that suits his strengths. Fitz can provide leadership and help foster Rosen's development, where he wasn't ready to start immediately in Arizona. You may not get Tua, though that remains to be seen. 11 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: At this point, I have no idea what the Mammals are thinking. Anyone's guess, but I don't think they think they're tanking. I'm leaning toward agreeing with you that the Dolphins are not thinking tank and try to rebuild the roster similar to what the Bills did. They will have a bad year this season, while aiming to show improvement next year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Kelly the Dog said: The thing is, the preseason doesn't have real games. The poster said "beat out" many QBs, am delighted in practice and preseason he probably would. You wouldn't get the bad Fitzy yet. I wish the pre season would go away or at least just 2 games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 How's Rosen's body language since this was announced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DolFAN93 Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said: Looks like Clowney doesn't want to go to Miami. I also think Hapless' quote below that the Dolphins are not going to tank has merit since they attempted to get Clowney, even if ultimately unsuccessful. Might as well keep Tunsil (and avoid a team wide revolt) while further developing Rosen in a scheme (E-P) that suits his strengths. Fitz can provide leadership and help foster Rosen's development, where he wasn't ready to start immediately in Arizona. You may not get Tua, though that remains to be seen. I'm leaning toward agreeing with you that the Dolphins are not thinking tank and try to rebuild the roster similar to what the Bills did. They will have a bad year this season, while aiming to show improvement next year. And that's why I'm opposed to Clowney. If he doesn't want to be here, don't make this trade. Tunsil is healthy and is one of the best players on the team. I would have to find the article but the plan isn't to tank but to look at least competent while losing. Our owner Stephen Ross is trying to keep fans in the seats since this is a business at the end of the day. 4-12 is the goal imo. Not terrible, given our circumstances, but enough wins and competitive losses to keep fans coming and to give hope for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 32 minutes ago, DolFAN93 said: Dolphins fan here. I don't come in peace ? Rosen has actually looked better than Fitzy over the past 3 weeks. His pocket-presence and accuracy have improved a lot; just needs to get the ball out faster. The reason I think Rosen will not start now is because the offensive line sucks and they want to protect their investment (Rosen). We face four of the best defenses back-to-back in weeks 1-4. Let Fitzy have his wild 300 yards 3 TD games early then throw the young guy in when Fitz gets hurt. The Clowney interest actually makes sense if the plan is to turn the team around quick. No matter who plays QB this year, the OL is so bad that it will not allow said QB to run a functioning offense. They already have some young pieces at CB, LB, DT, and WR but literally nothing at DE. If the recent reports are true, Houston offered a 1st and Clowney for Tunsil. Tunsil is one of the best LT in the league so the question then becomes do you want either Fitzy and Rosen running for their lives with help on the left side or do you want a competent defense and Fitzy/Rosen running for their lives? Regardless of whatever option they choose, the goal is to look towards the future. 1. We keep Tunsil but our pass-rush suffers. We have a projected 13 picks in next year's draft and $120+ million in cap space next year. Draft your QB, sign or draft a DE, shore up OL in free agency, etc. 2. We lose Tunsil but gain Clowney, an extra 1st next year, and apparently our GM wants more. We now have a projected 14 or 15, four in the first two rounds, picks in next year's draft and $120+ million in cap space next year. The defense should be set outside of free safety so all of the resources would go into the offense. Draft a QB, shore up the offensive line in FA/draft, pay Clowney, etc. Here's the thing, though, DolFAN. Good to great LTs get paid because it's a supply-demand situation. No question to run a functional offense and to "turn the team around quick", an experienced, available, gpod-to-great LT is a necessity. If the Dolphins trade away a guy you describe as "one of the best LTs in the league" in Tunsil, there is no guarantee that they'll find his equal or superior any time soon. Even if the Dolphins find such a one in next year's draft, he's going to need a few seasons to come up to speed. Good LTs do not come on the FA market or trading block often, and when they do it's typically because there's a catch - as with the Bills trading Cordy Glenn who missed 9 games the previous season - and for a fairly hefty price. To the outsider, it's very puzzling what their plan is. And I'm OK with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 59 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: It does, however, show how coaches can be hoodwinked by practice and preseason. Fitz would actually be a good if not very good starting QB in this league if he did not try to force passes so much in real games and write checks his arm can't cash. That doesn't happen in practice and preseason, so he can look great and beat out his competition in that setting. For the smartest guy in the league he throws the most dumb passes. He does. But his history is well-known. If they're still going with him over Rosen, whose history hasn't been written yet and who theoretically could become a franchise QB, not to mention for whom they gave up a 2nd rounder, it says a lot about what they think of him. 57 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: So who was the better qb this preseason - Allen or Barkley? Who was facing starters and who was facing backups? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 7 minutes ago, Doc said: He does. But his history is well-known. If they're still going with him over Rosen, whose history hasn't been written yet and who theoretically could become a franchise QB, not to mention for whom they gave up a 2nd rounder, it says a lot about what they think of him. Who was facing starters and who was facing backups? 1. Chan Gailey was a very smart offensive coach. He was hoodwinked by Trent Edwards in the preseason and practice even with a known history. As soon as the real bullets started flying and it was evidenced that he couldn't handle a rush, Gailey didn't even bench him, he cut him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJDK Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 They just want to use up that quarter tank of Fitzmagic and then let Douche Rosen sink or swim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 Not sure how trading their best OL in Tunsil helps them transition from Fitz to Rosen after the 4 game early stretch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 14 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Fitz would beat out a lot of starting qbs. As of right now, he’s the second best qb in the division. As much as I want to, I really can't argue with your assessment. Let's revisit this after 10 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 56 minutes ago, Doc said: He does. But his history is well-known. If they're still going with him over Rosen, whose history hasn't been written yet and who theoretically could become a franchise QB, not to mention for whom they gave up a 2nd rounder, it says a lot about what they think of him. Who was facing starters and who was facing backups? Did you ask this last year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 1 hour ago, DolFAN93 said: Dolphins fan here. I don't come in peace ? Rosen has actually looked better than Fitzy over the past 3 weeks. His pocket-presence and accuracy have improved a lot; just needs to get the ball out faster. The reason I think Rosen will not start now is because the offensive line sucks and they want to protect their investment (Rosen). We face four of the best defenses back-to-back in weeks 1-4. Let Fitzy have his wild 300 yards 3 TD games early then throw the young guy in when Fitz gets hurt. The Clowney interest actually makes sense if the plan is to turn the team around quick. No matter who plays QB this year, the OL is so bad that it will not allow said QB to run a functioning offense. They already have some young pieces at CB, LB, DT, and WR but literally nothing at DE. If the recent reports are true, Houston offered a 1st and Clowney for Tunsil. Tunsil is one of the best LT in the league so the question then becomes do you want either Fitzy and Rosen running for their lives with help on the left side or do you want a competent defense and Fitzy/Rosen running for their lives? Regardless of whatever option they choose, the goal is to look towards the future. 1. We keep Tunsil but our pass-rush suffers. We have a projected 13 picks in next year's draft and $120+ million in cap space next year. Draft your QB, sign or draft a DE, shore up OL in free agency, etc. 2. We lose Tunsil but gain Clowney, an extra 1st next year, and apparently our GM wants more. We now have a projected 14 or 15, four or five in the first two rounds, picks in next year's draft and $120+ million in cap space next year. The defense should be set outside of free safety so all of the resources would go into the offense. Draft a QB, shore up the offensive line in FA/draft, pay Clowney, etc. If I were a dolphin fan, I would want to keep Tunsil over getting Clowney. With all that cap space next year and draft picks, I rebuild the line around Tunsil. I would also treat this year as Rosen's rookie year. He sits until week 8 or 9, then finishes out the season. He can learn a lot from watching Fitz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 37 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Did you ask this last year? Did I ask what? I wasn't a fan of Peterman after his performance in 2017 and after they traded McCarron, I wanted Allen to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 3 hours ago, DolFAN93 said: Dolphins fan here. I don't come in peace ? Rosen has actually looked better than Fitzy over the past 3 weeks. His pocket-presence and accuracy have improved a lot; just needs to get the ball out faster. The reason I think Rosen will not start now is because the offensive line sucks and they want to protect their investment (Rosen). We face four of the best defenses back-to-back in weeks 1-4. Let Fitzy have his wild 300 yards 3 TD games early then throw the young guy in when Fitz gets hurt. The Clowney interest actually makes sense if the plan is to turn the team around quick. No matter who plays QB this year, the OL is so bad that it will not allow said QB to run a functioning offense. They already have some young pieces at CB, LB, DT, and WR but literally nothing at DE. If the recent reports are true, Houston offered a 1st and Clowney for Tunsil. Tunsil is one of the best LT in the league so the question then becomes do you want either Fitzy and Rosen running for their lives with help on the left side or do you want a competent defense and Fitzy/Rosen running for their lives? Regardless of whatever option they choose, the goal is to look towards the future. 1. We keep Tunsil but our pass-rush suffers. We have a projected 13 picks in next year's draft and $120+ million in cap space next year. Draft your QB, sign or draft a DE, shore up OL in free agency, etc. 2. We lose Tunsil but gain Clowney, an extra 1st next year, and apparently our GM wants more. We now have a projected 14 or 15, four or five in the first two rounds, picks in next year's draft and $120+ million in cap space next year. The defense should be set outside of free safety so all of the resources would go into the offense. Draft a QB, shore up the offensive line in FA/draft, pay Clowney, etc. I like when we get visitors with a little different perspective on their teams. Welcome (for now ... we'll turn on you soon enough). Sounds to me like the Dolphins may be right where the Bills were a couple years ago: committed to clearing bad salaries and making cap space, stockpiling draft picks, etc., etc. In an earlier version of the NFL I'd have said you gotta play Rosen now - he's already a 2nd year player and you'll have some important choices (5th year option, etc.) coming before too long. In today's NFL, there's plenty of time. If he shows something in the final half of the season this year, they probably don't draft the new franchise QB in 2020. What I'm really looking forward to: some day in the not too distant future, the AFC East will have 3 teams with established young QBs and lots of talented players in their prime. One team will be left searching for a new QB, a new coach, and a new GM. And that team will be the Patriots ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 3 hours ago, Doc said: He does. But his history is well-known. If they're still going with him over Rosen, whose history hasn't been written yet and who theoretically could become a franchise QB, not to mention for whom they gave up a 2nd rounder, it says a lot about what they think of him. Who was facing starters and who was facing backups? I’m not arguing that Barkley should start over Allen. My point was in a true open competition, it’s very easy for a veteran to look better than a 2nd year qb, especially one learning a brand new offense. I just don’t know why there is a rush to try to label qbs as busts. It’s literally the hardest position to learn in sports and we expect guys to master it in a couple of years. Fitz is a great example of this. Dude had his best year in year 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Doc said: Did I ask what? I wasn't a fan of Peterman after his performance in 2017 and after they traded McCarron, I wanted Allen to start. You didn’t think Peterman “won” the start after his performance in preseason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 4 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said: Fitz was the 9th rated QB in the entire league last year with a 100.4 rating, 17 TDs and 12 INTs in less than half a season, and yes I saw all the bad Fitzy games. 14th in QBR and if he played the whole season he was on pace for 4800 yards. He led the entire league in yards per attempt by a lot at 9.6 which is ridiculous. Allow me to jump on the "best QB to never have the chance to start on a decent team" theme: Fitzy 2008 in Cincy: 4-7-1. Carson Palmer: 0-4. Terrible team. Fitzy 2009 in Buffalo: 4-4. Trent: 2-5. Bad Team. Fitzy 2010 Buffalo: 4-9. Other QBs: 0-3. Terrible team. Fitzy 2014 Houston: 6-6. Other QBs: 2-1. Mediocre team. Fitzy 2015 Jets: 10-6. Mediocre team. Fitzy 2018 Tampa: 2-5. Jameis: 3-6. Bad Team. In some alternative universe, Fitzy is getting picked up by a very good team with an injured QB, and he's going all Nick Foles on us ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 6 hours ago, Doc said: It's a really bad sign that a 2nd year high draft pick can't beat out a journeyman who is on his 8th team. It really isn't. It's been noted before by wiser football heads than mine that it's seldom a good idea to hold a preseason QB battle between a vet and a green player because the veteran will almost invariably beat out the young player just based on experience with defensive pattern recognition and speed of picking up the playbook. Even if said vet has a Cassel-esque noodle arm and has a well-established ceiling the younger player has potential to surpass. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 4 hours ago, DolFAN93 said: Dolphins fan here. I don't come in peace ? Rosen has actually looked better than Fitzy over the past 3 weeks. His pocket-presence and accuracy have improved a lot; just needs to get the ball out faster. The reason I think Rosen will not start now is because the offensive line sucks and they want to protect their investment (Rosen). We face four of the best defenses back-to-back in weeks 1-4. Let Fitzy have his wild 300 yards 3 TD games early then throw the young guy in when Fitz gets hurt. The Clowney interest actually makes sense if the plan is to turn the team around quick. No matter who plays QB this year, the OL is so bad that it will not allow said QB to run a functioning offense. They already have some young pieces at CB, LB, DT, and WR but literally nothing at DE. If the recent reports are true, Houston offered a 1st and Clowney for Tunsil. Tunsil is one of the best LT in the league so the question then becomes do you want either Fitzy and Rosen running for their lives with help on the left side or do you want a competent defense and Fitzy/Rosen running for their lives? Regardless of whatever option they choose, the goal is to look towards the future. 1. We keep Tunsil but our pass-rush suffers. We have a projected 13 picks in next year's draft and $120+ million in cap space next year. Draft your QB, sign or draft a DE, shore up OL in free agency, etc. 2. We lose Tunsil but gain Clowney, an extra 1st next year, and apparently our GM wants more. We now have a projected 14 or 15, four or five in the first two rounds, picks in next year's draft and $120+ million in cap space next year. The defense should be set outside of free safety so all of the resources would go into the offense. Draft a QB, shore up the offensive line in FA/draft, pay Clowney, etc. I mean that's what we tried last year and it lasted for all of one half. Though I'm sure Fitz would do better than Peterman though it might still be seen as a real bad move later on just like it was here. Tunsil though for a DE not a great plan I mean your probably picking early next draft and it's supposed to be a good DE draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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