Bills dead cap number '18 to '19

[ngbills]

20 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Did we? The dead cap ridiculousness was a manufactured crisis created by McBeane just so they could wipe every shred of existence of the previous regime while putting in their own initiatives that they claim are vastly superior, but have yet to show any results. Seems strikingly familiar...

I think we have to go a long way to go before anyone can start claiming this squad is objectively more talented than the 2016 squad they replaced.

People on both sides look for anything to prove theei point. Look how fast we got out of cap hell - amazing job Beane. Nevermind Beane did help create the cap hell by wanting his guys only. 

Who is right? The team was better record wise before many of the cuts. Cant ignore this was a bad team last year that got worse. This year will be telling to see if they are better. Guess what, if not and the team sucks again...we could easily be in cap hell again. Cutting guys like Hughes, Star, Morse, and more could easily add up to $40M+ in dead cap. 

Edited July 30, 2019 by ngbills

[BullBuchanan]

1 minute ago, ngbills said:

People on both sides look for anything to prove theei point. Look how fast we got out of cap hell - amazing job Beane. Nevermind Beane did help create the cap hell by wanting his guys only. 

Who is right? The team was better record wise before many of the cuts. Cant ignore this was a bad team last year that got worse. This year will be telling to see if they are better. Guess what, if not and the team sucks again...we could easily be in cap hell again. Cutting guys like Hughes, Star, Morse, and more could easily add up to $40M+ in dead cap. 

Right, and just to be clear, it's not that I think they can't turn this ship around. I just don't go handing out attaboys for solving problems that didn't exist before they created them. All of the progress so far has been towards getting the team back tot he level it was before they wrecked it. We'll see if this strategy actually allows them to surpass the previous ceiling, or if it's just a different flavor of 7-9 to 9-7.

[BillsVet]

18 hours ago, Cripple Creek said:

The team has been rebuilt in a short timeframe. I’m thankful for that and I see promise. You miserable sots prefer to wallow in misery. We got a nice thing working here. Enjoy the ride.

 

"Short timeframe?"  Two off-seasons and 32 games into McBeane's tenure is not what I consider short, particularly when you're 15-17.  It's almost necessary for most franchises to rebuild quickly because their fan base will not tolerate a 6-10 with little on offense in the second year.  For comparisons sake, here's 7 teams in recent years who far exceeded Buffalo's 15-17 start:

 

KC: 2-14 in 2012, goes 31-17 from 2013-15 with 2 playoff appearances

HOU: 2-14 in 2013, goes 27-21 from 2014-16 with 2 playoff appearances

LAC: 5-11 in 2016, goes 21-11 in 2017-18 with 1 playoff appearance that saw them advance to AFC Championship

PHI: 7-9 in 2015, goes 29-19 in 2016-18 with 2 playoff appearances including a SB win

MIN: 5-10-1 in 2013, goes 26-22 first 3 seasons with 1 playoff appearances

LAR: 4-12 in 2016, goes 24-8 first 2 seasons with 2 playoff appearances with a SB appearance

SEA: 5-11 in 2009, goes 25-23 first 3 seasons with 2 playoff appearances and a SB in year 5

 

None of those teams decided to spend 2 seasons on a complete tear down.  McBeane don't get credit for slow-walking a rebuild, but I can tell you their seat is warming if this team doesn't get off to a good start after that off-season and having so much trust from ownership.

 

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, BillsVet said:

 

"Short timeframe?"  Two off-seasons and 32 games into McBeane's tenure is not what I consider short, particularly when you're 15-17.  It's almost necessary for most franchises to rebuild quickly because their fan base will not tolerate a 6-10 with little on offense in the second year.  For comparisons sake, here's 7 teams in recent years who far exceeded Buffalo's 15-17 start:

 

KC: 2-14 in 2012, goes 31-17 from 2013-15 with 2 playoff appearances

HOU: 2-14 in 2013, goes 27-21 from 2014-16 with 2 playoff appearances

LAC: 5-11 in 2016, goes 21-11 in 2017-18 with 1 playoff appearance that saw them advance to AFC Championship

PHI: 7-9 in 2015, goes 29-19 in 2016-18 with 2 playoff appearances including a SB win

MIN: 5-10-1 in 2013, goes 26-22 first 3 seasons with 1 playoff appearances

LAR: 4-12 in 2016, goes 24-8 first 2 seasons with 2 playoff appearances with a SB appearance

SEA: 5-11 in 2009, goes 25-23 first 3 seasons with 2 playoff appearances and a SB in year 5

 

None of those teams decided to spend 2 seasons on a complete tear down.  McBeane don't get credit for slow-walking a rebuild, but I can tell you their seat is warming if this team doesn't get off to a good start after that off-season and having so much trust from ownership.

 

Their fan base not tolerating it, as a reason for them to do something different?  Laughable.

[K-9]

3 hours ago, matter2003 said:

Its an accomplishment that they did it so quickly, were so thorough and stuck to the plan...most teams can't claim those 3 things.

Imo, what makes it an “accomplishment” (whatever that means) is that they conducted the purge while being able to add good talent to replace the departed players AND used the draft capital acquired in that purge to move up and grab their franchise QB, not to mention a highly touted MLB prospect to boot. 

 

Whether it pans out or not remains to be seen. But it’s not like they purged the roster and said, “WTF do we do now.” Instead, they created a plan and executed it. Even their biggest detractors should respect that.

[BillsVet]

23 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Their fan base not tolerating it, as a reason for them to do something different?  Laughable.

 

Ownership sees the same things fans do.  And I doubt the former would ignore the latter if results truly matter. 

 

 

[Cripple Creek]

30 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

"Short timeframe?"  Two off-seasons and 32 games into McBeane's tenure is not what I consider short, particularly when you're 15-17.  It's almost necessary for most franchises to rebuild quickly because their fan base will not tolerate a 6-10 with little on offense in the second year.  For comparisons sake, here's 7 teams in recent years who far exceeded Buffalo's 15-17 start:

 

KC: 2-14 in 2012, goes 31-17 from 2013-15 with 2 playoff appearances

HOU: 2-14 in 2013, goes 27-21 from 2014-16 with 2 playoff appearances

LAC: 5-11 in 2016, goes 21-11 in 2017-18 with 1 playoff appearance that saw them advance to AFC Championship

PHI: 7-9 in 2015, goes 29-19 in 2016-18 with 2 playoff appearances including a SB win

MIN: 5-10-1 in 2013, goes 26-22 first 3 seasons with 1 playoff appearances

LAR: 4-12 in 2016, goes 24-8 first 2 seasons with 2 playoff appearances with a SB appearance

SEA: 5-11 in 2009, goes 25-23 first 3 seasons with 2 playoff appearances and a SB in year 5

 

None of those teams decided to spend 2 seasons on a complete tear down.  McBeane don't get credit for slow-walking a rebuild, but I can tell you their seat is warming if this team doesn't get off to a good start after that off-season and having so much trust from ownership.

 

If 2 off seasons is not short to you, when there was not a viable QB in place, then there is not much we can discuss here.  Your distorted, IMO, view of reality does not match the realities of the NFL.

[oldmanfan]

21 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

Ownership sees the same things fans do.  And I doubt the former would ignore the latter if results truly matter. 

 

 

They go say 8-8 this year the fans are not going to abandon the team.  And changing coaches and GMs ever 2-3 years is not a ormula for success.  You need a reality check

[Buffalo Boy]

3 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

Did we? The dead cap ridiculousness was a manufactured crisis created by McBeane just so they could wipe every shred of existence of the previous regime while putting in their own initiatives that they claim are vastly superior, but have yet to show any results. Seems strikingly familiar...

I think we have to go a long way to go before anyone can start claiming this squad is objectively more talented than the 2016 squad they replaced.

Long way to go?

It’s called the upcoming season and it actually isn’t that long from now?

Harken back with fondness to 30th in points, 30 th in yards, 31 st in passing yards and 9 th in rushing yards.

Whoo effing hoo!!!!

22nd offense

18th Defense 

 

We will be a better team this year.

 

[BillsVet]

2 hours ago, Cripple Creek said:

If 2 off seasons is not short to you, when there was not a viable QB in place, then there is not much we can discuss here.  Your distorted, IMO, view of reality does not match the realities of the NFL.

 

No QB? Two QBs were on the board at 10 in 2017 when McD elected to trade down.  Say no one knew those 2 would be very good to outstanding.  Or, that we needed a CB (after letting Gilmore walk).  Say whatever you want.  The HC abdicated on a decision to find a QB to put behind TT in 2017 so that he could draft a defensive player. 

 

You don't delay drafting a QB.  You get aggressive because it's the major difference between mediocrity and success. 

 

2 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

They go say 8-8 this year the fans are not going to abandon the team.  And changing coaches and GMs ever 2-3 years is not a ormula for success.  You need a reality check

 

Their rebuild has failed if they go 8-8 in 2019.  By comparison, their predecessors first 3 years (2013-15 Whaley/Marrone/Rex) had the same record (23-25) and we know how that story ended.   

 

If you're not improving, then it's regression.  And after clearing all the dead cap unwanted players, drafting their franchise QB, investing significantly in the defense, and buying much of their offense I'd say 8-8 is failure for that reason.   

 

As for continuity, a lot of you don't understand how the corporate world works.  If you don't get results quickly, you're toast.  It's why senior executives have a limited shelf life if their departments aren't meeting objectives and the NFL is not much different.  Three years is an eternity to get results, as evidenced by the multiple teams who've succeeded without following the McBeane self-imposed tear-down script. 

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

....the cap situation and what this club was getting in return for production was red ink IMO.....so you either live with the situation or bite the painful bullet, get rid of the dead wood and do your best to remain somewhat competitive during the "purge period".....painful versus painless?...damn right.....got the bawls to pull the trigger?....McBeane sure as hell did....still do not know why Pegula did not follow the TBD Expert Posters' Advice to "fire McBeane....fire McDermott now"....a clueless Owner who ignored the expertise right here right now?....what the hell was he thinking?..blasphemy and fan base disrespect no doubt....my LARGE gut hurts from laughing....

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

On 7/29/2019 at 4:02 PM, section122 said:

 

I still don't think this is the full roster they want.  I think this years signings were about creating depth which is why the number of fa signed was so high.  The cupboard was incredibly bare last year (yes of there own doing).  IIRC a lot of the contracts were prove it deals so I expect some more churning next year as well.  I also think after this year they will push all their chips in and I expect at least 1 big fa splash.

 

This isn't quite a put up or shut up year but there needs to be improvement in their record and offensive prowess.  This team should be competitive but I don't think it is a contending team yet.  Unless Allen pulls a Mahomes that is...

 

I can see in next years draft the first three rounds picking up a LB, DE, WR, and OL.  Between the 4 drafts plus FA signing, then the roster will be close to filled out the way they want it.  After that will start to replace guys who are OK, but didn't pan out as good as expected.  Or they are just no longer needed.

 

On 7/29/2019 at 4:17 PM, John from Riverside said:

If the players he brought in dont pan out.....they will be back in like the wrath of god......:P

 

Not really as very few have much invested, so can easily not re-sign or cut with little lost. The only ones costing much money would be Morse, Starr,  Kroft, likely  couple others I'm leaving out.

[John from Riverside]

2 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

I can see in next years draft the first three rounds picking up a LB, DE, WR, and OL.  Between the 4 drafts plus FA signing, then the roster will be close to filled out the way they want it.  After that will start to replace guys who are OK, but didn't pan out as good as expected.  Or they are just no longer needed.

 

 

Not really as very few have much invested, so can easily not re-sign or cut with little lost. The only ones costing much money would be Morse, Starr,  Kroft, likely  couple others I'm leaving out.

Yeah but you cannot just do things that are economically sound (as much as that sounds great)......in order to stick around you also need to perform on the field

[oldmanfan]

21 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

No QB? Two QBs were on the board at 10 in 2017 when McD elected to trade down.  Say no one knew those 2 would be very good to outstanding.  Or, that we needed a CB (after letting Gilmore walk).  Say whatever you want.  The HC abdicated on a decision to find a QB to put behind TT in 2017 so that he could draft a defensive player. 

 

You don't delay drafting a QB.  You get aggressive because it's the major difference between mediocrity and success. 

 

 

Their rebuild has failed if they go 8-8 in 2019.  By comparison, their predecessors first 3 years (2013-15 Whaley/Marrone/Rex) had the same record (23-25) and we know how that story ended.   

 

If you're not improving, then it's regression.  And after clearing all the dead cap unwanted players, drafting their franchise QB, investing significantly in the defense, and buying much of their offense I'd say 8-8 is failure for that reason.   

 

As for continuity, a lot of you don't understand how the corporate world works.  If you don't get results quickly, you're toast.  It's why senior executives have a limited shelf life if their departments aren't meeting objectives and the NFL is not much different.  Three years is an eternity to get results, as evidenced by the multiple teams who've succeeded without following the McBeane self-imposed tear-down script. 

 

It has not failed if they  go 8-8.   Stop with the hysteria.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

Yeah but you cannot just do things that are economically sound (as much as that sounds great)......in order to stick around you also need to perform on the field

 

That kind of went without saying, yes the players must do well.  Every team will have busts, but need more than 1/2 to become very good to excellent and a few superstars.  Rest then you can supliment with draft pick turnover and mid level FA signing, plus maybe one top FA signing each year.

 

You just need to be smart enough to know when the rookie contracts start to expire to not resign all them as some will not be worth it.  If I had to predict right now who one might be, I'd pick Zay Jones.  Think he may become decent to good, but not great.

[oldmanfan]

The Pegula’s hired these guys to carry out their plan.  They have a plan, and it should be readily apparent by now to all but the willfully blind what that is.  They want talented guys that love to play football, who prioritize football, who constantly look to improve.

 

When they got here, they figured out who they saw as fitting their plan and those who didn’t.  They cleared out guys who didn’t fit like Dareus and Sammy, cleared out guys they didn’t think could get them where they wanted like TT, some guys left as FAs like Gilmore and Woods.   They knew they had some bloated contracts and ripped the bandaid off quickly vs. slowly as far as the cap.   Now they have an admirable cap situation.

 

They want to focus on the draft to build their team.  They have two young guys they think are their long term leaders on both sides of the ball in Allen and Edmunds.  Yes, they could have taken Watson (the guy I wanted) or Mahomes (whom no one saw having the kind of year he had last year).  But they now have their guy, and an AllPro CB (what ever happened to all the clamor about having to have a shut down CB?).  They continue to add talent.  

 

Obviously their future is locked into their personnel decisions.  But the constant whining about it, and how they should be gone so soon if they don’t have a winner right now is just so damn tiresome.  First of all, they made the playoffs year one, and spare me the crap about how that was lucky.  Second, they knew they were taking a big cap hit year 2.  Third, look at the most continually successful NFL organizations.  They have agreement between HC and GM on philosophy (unless it’s Belichick who has total control).  They have sustained growth.  They can focus on drafting the guys that fit what they want, same with FAs.  The Pats, Steelers, Seahawks, all have those kinds of models and they work.

 

Do you have to make changes sometimes?  Sure.  I live outside Indy and the Colts knew they had to, but in Frank and Ballard they have the same type guys as McD and Beane. The Rams?  They look good right now, but they have given up a lot of draft picks, and will have to make difficult contract decisions. They have a shot right now, but is that model sustainable?  Doubtful; the Bills have a more long term sustained strategy.  

 

i get some don’t like their strategy.  But let’s just see how it plays out instead of assuming it won’t.  Why some assume it won’t is  mystifying.

[ngbills]

40 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

The Pegula’s hired these guys to carry out their plan.  They have a plan, and it should be readily apparent by now to all but the willfully blind what that is.  They want talented guys that love to play football, who prioritize football, who constantly look to improve. And other regimes or teams dont? 

 

When they got here, they figured out who they saw as fitting their plan and those who didn’t.  They cleared out guys who didn’t fit like Dareus and Sammy, cleared out guys they didn’t think could get them where they wanted like TT, some guys left as FAs like Gilmore and Woods.   They knew they had some bloated contracts and ripped the bandaid off quickly vs. slowly as far as the cap.   Now they have an admirable cap situation. Like many do; You dont get an award for this stuff.

 

They want to focus on the draft to build their team.  They have two young guys they think are their long term leaders on both sides of the ball in Allen and Edmunds.  Yes, they could have taken Watson (the guy I wanted) or Mahomes (whom no one saw having the kind of year he had last year).  But they now have their guy, and an AllPro CB (what ever happened to all the clamor about having to have a shut down CB?).  They continue to add talent.  Kind of. They have done a ton in free agency and been open to trading draft picks. Mahomes will always haunt them. 

 

Obviously their future is locked into their personnel decisions.  But the constant whining about it, and how they should be gone so soon if they don’t have a winner right now is just so damn tiresome.  First of all, they made the playoffs year one, and spare me the crap about how that was lucky.  Second, they knew they were taking a big cap hit year 2.  Third, look at the most continually successful NFL organizations.  They have agreement between HC and GM on philosophy (unless it’s Belichick who has total control).  They have sustained growth.  They can focus on drafting the guys that fit what they want, same with FAs.  The Pats, Steelers, Seahawks, all have those kinds of models and they work. This started with "Wow look at the amazing job with the cap. Point was they created most of the cap issues and winning is what matters. Havent done that yet. 

 

Do you have to make changes sometimes?  Sure.  I live outside Indy and the Colts knew they had to, but in Frank and Ballard they have the same type guys as McD and Beane. The Rams?  They look good right now, but they have given up a lot of draft picks, and will have to make difficult contract decisions. They have a shot right now, but is that model sustainable?  Doubtful; the Bills have a more long term sustained strategy. If Allen is legit the Bills have a shot. NFL = QB = Success

 

i get some don’t like their strategy.  But let’s just see how it plays out instead of assuming it won’t.  Why some assume it won’t is  mystifying. Again, it is assuming it already has is the problem. They turned over a roster and we have yet to see the result. 

 

[LSHMEAB]

11 hours ago, matter2003 said:

 

The defense was #2 in the league last year and in the top 5-10 in most metrics...thats more than just solid. And they improved it across the board from a talent and depth perspective...we have the deepest secondary in the NFL by a country mile.

The team we've assembled (to this point) is devoid of true stars and it's now 94 percent Beane/McDermott's roster. Allen COULD be a star. Oliver COULD be a star. Edmunds COULD be a star. White is a borderline star at corner. 

 

The Patriots have made this model work, but emulating that is a TALL task.

 

I'm by no means saying it CAN'T work. What I'm saying is that I can't really believe it until I actually see it. Clearing cap space is not an accomplishment in and of itself.

 

McDermott squeezing 9 wins and a playoff berth out of THAT 2017 roster was super impressive. Even the 6 wins in 2018 was a max win total considering the roster. So there's definitely hope and I think he's proven to be a worthy HC. He hasn't proven to be a great HC, but he's earned a certain amount of trust. Whether or not this all comes together will largely depend on this offseason's acquisitions. I like a few. Don't like a few. I didn't really like last season's FA'cy despite the fact that they were hamstrung. I believe McDermott can get max results out of the talent at his disposal. I'm not convinced that we're assembling the proper talent to compete at the highest level. But my opinion is just that; an opinion. I'm a Bills fan, so I'm as excited as ever for week 1 at the Jets. But I remain cautious in my prognosis of this plan. 

 

The results will speak for themselves and 60 plus percent of this is going to depend on Josh Allen's growth(duh, right?)

[oldmanfan]

8 minutes ago, ngbills said:

 

The Mahomes comment is typical Monday morning QBing. Not one team in the league thought Mahomes would be the guy he was last year.  Not a single one.  Because if teams thought he would be there would have been moves by multiple teams to trade up to #1.  Coming out there were concerns about his footwork and him playing in an offense that did not produce NFL caliber QBs.

 

Creating  cap issues?  The cap issues were big contracts on guys not earning the $$, Dareus being the prime one.  They solved the cap issue, they didn’t create it.

 

Do all teams have plans?  Yes.  Do all teams have plans become enormously successful in two years?  No.

[Doc]

Instead of clearing cap room year 1, they made the playoffs and did it in year 2. Year 3 and beyond were always the salad years.

[stinky finger]

On 7/29/2019 at 4:02 PM, section122 said:

 

I still don't think this is the full roster they want.  I think this years signings were about creating depth which is why the number of fa signed was so high.  The cupboard was incredibly bare last year (yes of there own doing).  IIRC a lot of the contracts were prove it deals so I expect some more churning next year as well.  I also think after this year they will push all their chips in and I expect at least 1 big fa splash.

 

This isn't quite a put up or shut up year but there needs to be improvement in their record and offensive prowess.  This team should be competitive but I don't think it is a contending team yet.  Unless Allen pulls a Mahomes that is...

 

Spot on.

 

good post ?

[stinky finger]

22 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

I'm not a McBeane "hater," but the notion that creating cap space is some kind of accomplishment is silly.

 

This is a pivotal season for both. They've surrounded Allen with "enough" talent. The defense is solid if not spectacular. Allen and Daboll are heading into year two together. Results are the only thing that matters and I think we need to retire the cap excuse. This is now THEIR team.

 

This is fair and true.

 

I would also add that Beane and McDermott are here long term.

 

The revolving door of management change has come to a halt. Get used it, folks. This is a good thing.

[stinky finger]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

The Pegula’s hired these guys to carry out their plan.  They have a plan, and it should be readily apparent by now to all but the willfully blind what that is.  They want talented guys that love to play football, who prioritize football, who constantly look to improve.

 

When they got here, they figured out who they saw as fitting their plan and those who didn’t.  They cleared out guys who didn’t fit like Dareus and Sammy, cleared out guys they didn’t think could get them where they wanted like TT, some guys left as FAs like Gilmore and Woods.   They knew they had some bloated contracts and ripped the bandaid off quickly vs. slowly as far as the cap.   Now they have an admirable cap situation.

 

They want to focus on the draft to build their team.  They have two young guys they think are their long term leaders on both sides of the ball in Allen and Edmunds.  Yes, they could have taken Watson (the guy I wanted) or Mahomes (whom no one saw having the kind of year he had last year).  But they now have their guy, and an AllPro CB (what ever happened to all the clamor about having to have a shut down CB?).  They continue to add talent.  

 

Obviously their future is locked into their personnel decisions.  But the constant whining about it, and how they should be gone so soon if they don’t have a winner right now is just so damn tiresome.  First of all, they made the playoffs year one, and spare me the crap about how that was lucky.  Second, they knew they were taking a big cap hit year 2.  Third, look at the most continually successful NFL organizations.  They have agreement between HC and GM on philosophy (unless it’s Belichick who has total control).  They have sustained growth.  They can focus on drafting the guys that fit what they want, same with FAs.  The Pats, Steelers, Seahawks, all have those kinds of models and they work.

 

Do you have to make changes sometimes?  Sure.  I live outside Indy and the Colts knew they had to, but in Frank and Ballard they have the same type guys as McD and Beane. The Rams?  They look good right now, but they have given up a lot of draft picks, and will have to make difficult contract decisions. They have a shot right now, but is that model sustainable?  Doubtful; the Bills have a more long term sustained strategy.  

 

i get some don’t like their strategy.  But let’s just see how it plays out instead of assuming it won’t.  Why some assume it won’t is  mystifying.

 

Terrific post ?

[billsfan89]

On 7/29/2019 at 12:24 PM, Buffalo Boy said:

     Funny how the McBean haters have disappeared from this board?

     Two years ago people where apoplectic on here regarding “ The process”, looks like they might be onto something both business- wise and talent evaluation- wise.

     

 

I like what McBeane have done but they have a lot to prove this season. 

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

I like what McBeane have done but they have a lot to prove this season. 

I think you can make that statement about every team.

[billsfan89]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

I think you can make that statement about every team.

 

Most teams yes but McBeane is coming off of a 6-10 season and only has one other season under their belt. With the free agency plan executed the pressure is on them to do more than just build a c culture. I like what they have done but it needs to play out on the field. 

[PromoTheRobot]

3 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

The Pegula’s hired these guys to carry out their plan.  They have a plan, and it should be readily apparent by now to all but the willfully blind what that is.  They want talented guys that love to play football, who prioritize football, who constantly look to improve.

 

When they got here, they figured out who they saw as fitting their plan and those who didn’t.  They cleared out guys who didn’t fit like Dareus and Sammy, cleared out guys they didn’t think could get them where they wanted like TT, some guys left as FAs like Gilmore and Woods.   They knew they had some bloated contracts and ripped the bandaid off quickly vs. slowly as far as the cap.   Now they have an admirable cap situation.

 

They want to focus on the draft to build their team.  They have two young guys they think are their long term leaders on both sides of the ball in Allen and Edmunds.  Yes, they could have taken Watson (the guy I wanted) or Mahomes (whom no one saw having the kind of year he had last year).  But they now have their guy, and an AllPro CB (what ever happened to all the clamor about having to have a shut down CB?).  They continue to add talent.  

 

Obviously their future is locked into their personnel decisions.  But the constant whining about it, and how they should be gone so soon if they don’t have a winner right now is just so damn tiresome.  First of all, they made the playoffs year one, and spare me the crap about how that was lucky.  Second, they knew they were taking a big cap hit year 2.  Third, look at the most continually successful NFL organizations.  They have agreement between HC and GM on philosophy (unless it’s Belichick who has total control).  They have sustained growth.  They can focus on drafting the guys that fit what they want, same with FAs.  The Pats, Steelers, Seahawks, all have those kinds of models and they work.

 

Do you have to make changes sometimes?  Sure.  I live outside Indy and the Colts knew they had to, but in Frank and Ballard they have the same type guys as McD and Beane. The Rams?  They look good right now, but they have given up a lot of draft picks, and will have to make difficult contract decisions. They have a shot right now, but is that model sustainable?  Doubtful; the Bills have a more long term sustained strategy.  

 

i get some don’t like their strategy.  But let’s just see how it plays out instead of assuming it won’t.  Why some assume it won’t is  mystifying.

 

Face it. Some people want drama.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

Hilarious thread.

 

Beane created the most dead cap money in one season in the history of the NFL salary cap last year........he even freshly murdered a bunch of it dispatching his own bad moves like extending Eric Wood, trading for Corey Coleman and trading away AJ McCarron.   

 

OF COURSE he has gotten that down to below average this year.............I mean goddamn that's an absurd thing to try to give credit for.       That's like "well the neighborhood burned to the ground but on the plus side the Fire Department hasn't had a single call there since!". 

 

[oldmanfan]

3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Hilarious thread.

 

Beane created the most dead cap money in one season in the history of the NFL salary cap last year........he even freshly murdered a bunch of it dispatching his own bad moves like extending Eric Wood, trading for Corey Coleman and trading away AJ McCarron.   

 

OF COURSE he has gotten that down to below average this year.............I mean goddamn that's an absurd thing to try to give credit for.       That's like "well the neighborhood burned to the ground but on the plus side the Fire Department hasn't had a single call there since!". 

 

Extended Wood who got a career ending injury.  Yep, he wasn’t Nostradamus.  And you also would have continued to pay the big fat tub of goo named Dareus his 100 million dollars.

[Ol Dirty B]

14 hours ago, matter2003 said:

Those players were either players who didn't fit the profile of what they wanted, didn't fit the system or both. They decided to actively fix these issues instead of waiting til conracts expired etc, and created loads of dead cap space in the process.

The defense was #2 in the league last year and in the top 5-10 in most metrics...thats more than just solid. And they improved it across the board from a talent and depth perspective...we have the deepest secondary in the NFL by a country mile.

 

Kelvin was such a better fit than Sammy.

 

They also blamed the dead cap stuff on Whaley. Which I kind of find annoying. They have this year and next year and if they don't win they should be out of here. The both of them

 

That said I disagreed with some of the departures i think they have done good in some regards. However, depleting your WR and Oline should not be forgotten. And the Peterman crap is another level of stuff that they somehow get a pass on.

Edited July 31, 2019 by Ol Dirty B

[Buffalo Boy]

14 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Hilarious thread.

 

Beane created the most dead cap money in one season in the history of the NFL salary cap last year........he even freshly murdered a bunch of it dispatching his own bad moves like extending Eric Wood, trading for Corey Coleman and trading away AJ McCarron.   

 

OF COURSE he has gotten that down to below average this year.............I mean goddamn that's an absurd thing to try to give credit for.       That's like "well the neighborhood burned to the ground but on the plus side the Fire Department hasn't had a single call there since!". 

 

     Let’s bring back Whaley, or Nix ........ Tom Donohoe anyone? 

     This is what new regimes do. Unless 8-8 ad infinitum is your bag?

[BullBuchanan]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

     Let’s bring back Whaley, or Nix ........ Tom Donohoe anyone? 

     This is what new regimes do. Unless 8-8 ad infinitum is your bag?

Except every coach we've had in the last 30 years has averaged 8-8 or worse. There's little reason to believe these guys are any different, especially considering their 15-18 record through two years.

Edited July 31, 2019 by BullBuchanan

[oldmanfan]

10 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Except every coach we've had in the last 30 years has averaged 8-8 or worse. There's little reason to believe these guys are any different, especially considering their 15-18 record through two years.

For God sakes.  First season = playoffs.  Second season breaking in a rookie QB among other things.  You’re being absolutely ridiculous.

[BullBuchanan]

14 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

For God sakes.  First season = playoffs.  Second season breaking in a rookie QB among other things.  You’re being absolutely ridiculous.

Really? How much better was their 9-7 season vs Doug Marrone's 9-7 season. They played a super soft schedule and failed to put up 7 points against the Jags. I'm as happy as anyone they broke the curse, but let's not kid ourselves that it was some brilliant coaching and GM work that got us there. We don't have a brutal schedule this year, but it's not easy either. if they go 8-8 or worse are you still on the train?

[formerlyofCtown]

On 7/29/2019 at 3:38 PM, Magox said:

 "They created the unnecessary dead cap space"

No they didnt.  They didnt sign Dareus to that contract. They did what was necessary to get our team where it is currently.

[formerlyofCtown]

43 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Except every coach we've had in the last 30 years has averaged 8-8 or worse. There's little reason to believe these guys are any different, especially considering their 15-18 record through two years.

Except they were good enough to sneak in the playoffs.  What they did is called a Rebuild.  It was necessary and way overdue.

Although Whaley was an excellent talent evaluator it seems he wasnt able to get pieces that fit together.

[PromoTheRobot]

52 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Except every coach we've had in the last 30 years has averaged 8-8 or worse. There's little reason to believe these guys are any different, especially considering their 15-18 record through two years.

 

STATS!

[BullBuchanan]

2 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said:

No they didnt.  They didnt sign Dareus to that contract. They did what was necessary to get our team where it is currently.

Except they paid a negligible amount less to keep him than to dump him. The fact that they couldn't deal with whatever flaws they perceived he Watkins and Darby had is more of an indictment of the staff than the players in my book. A lot of jokers cheered the Ryan O'Reilly trade from Buffalo too, and that didn't work out so well.

Maybe they get lucky and the big money deals they paid out to underachievers like Star and Murphy pan out and one or both of Allen/Edmunds starts to flourish, and then all is forgotten and forgiven. Still, it was unprecedentedly reckless and an unnecessary waste of assets.

And what did all those cap savings buy them? Mitch Morse, John Brown, and Cole Beasley? I hardly see that as worth it. As it is they're going into the season with $22M of unused (wasted) cap, because they didn't make any moves to sign marquee players and they're at a point where there's nobody on the team worth using to money on to lock up in an extension.

 

It's just not smart business. I don't like being down on the team, but the amount of backslapping over these guys is just ridiculous. They were hailed as geniuses before they even set foot in the door, and I just don't think they've done anything to deserve that yet.

[formerlyofCtown]

2 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

Except they paid a negligible amount less to keep him than to dump him. The fact that they couldn't deal with whatever flaws they perceived he Watkins and Darby had is more of an indictment of the staff than the players in my book. A lot of jokers cheered the Ryan O'Reilly trade from Buffalo too, and that didn't work out so well.

Maybe they get lucky and the big money deals they paid out to underachievers like Star and Murphy pan out and one or both of Allen/Edmunds starts to flourish, and then all is forgotten and forgiven. Still, it was unprecedentedly reckless and an unnecessary waste of assets.

And what did all those cap savings buy them? Mitch Morse, John Brown, and Cole Beasley? I hardly see that as worth it. As it is they're going into the season with $22M of unused (wasted) cap, because they didn't make any moves to sign marquee players and they're at a point where there's nobody on the team worth using to money on to lock up in an extension.

 

It's just not smart business. I don't like being down on the team, but the amount of backslapping over these guys is just ridiculous. They were hailed as geniuses before they even set foot in the door, and I just don't think they've done anything to deserve that yet.

Big money to  Star and Murphy?  Their contracts together dont equal one Dareus Contract.  John Brown and Beasley seem to be could signings so far and Morse is one of the best Centers in the league.  He is the highest paid until the next man comes up.  Your big contracts comment tells me your clueless of what the overall salary cap is.  

 

Im also glad they didnt throw big contracts at big names.  You save a portion of your money to pay your own guys when they come due.  They are also not geniuses for doing thing similarly to the way NE does them just smart.

Edited July 31, 2019 by formerlyofCtown

[oldmanfan]

6 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

Really? How much better was their 9-7 season vs Doug Marrone's 9-7 season. They played a super soft schedule and failed to put up 7 points against the Jags. I'm as happy as anyone they broke the curse, but let's not kid ourselves that it was some brilliant coaching and GM work that got us there. We don't have a brutal schedule this year, but it's not easy either. if they go 8-8 or worse are you still on the train?

1-15 I’d be worried. 8-8of course not.