formerlyofCtown Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said: He's being paid a contract as a 10 sack per year guy as he's not. Worse yet, he's not healthy and the Bills either knew that and paid him anyway, or they didn't and they're incompetent. You pick. And at what point did he look "fine" last year? If you pay for a car over 3 years but you don't get to have it until the second year do you still consider it paying $300 a month? He ate up our cap and wasted a roster spot for a whole season. Im really starting to realize what the Bull in your name stands for. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 Just now, formerlyofCtown said: Im really starting to realize what the Bull in your name stands for. Still hoping for an original thought. Don't live down to my expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 7 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said: He's being paid a contract as a 10 sack per year guy as he's not. Worse yet, he's not healthy and the Bills either knew that and paid him anyway, or they didn't and they're incompetent. You pick. And at what point did he look "fine" last year? If you pay for a car over 3 years but you don't get to have it until the second year do you still consider it paying $300 a month? He ate up our cap and wasted a roster spot for a whole season. Because You don't predict future results off of statistical outliers. If you take away his one big contract year you get an average of 3.33 sacks per year. If you don't want to do that because it was a real season he played in where he got 9 sacks, you end up with Albert Haynesworth. The kid just isn't starting material. Trey Flowers is getting 18 mil a year after a 7.5 sack season. 4 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said: Still hoping for an original thought. Don't live down to my expectations. Youve obviously come up with some original math. Who was you math teacher? Nancy Pelosi? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 1 minute ago, BullBuchanan said: Still hoping for an original thought. Don't live down to my expectations. Let’s see what he can do when fully healthy. He needed to be physically and mentally ready, and I’ll not judge until after this season. Maybe it was indeed a mistake, and maybe not. I’m not hovering over anyone looking to harp on every single mistake they make at work. THAT would be horrible management. You are judged on the body of your work. Some people don’t understand that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 Just now, formerlyofCtown said: Trey Flowers is getting 18 mil a year after a 7.5 sack season. Consistency and availability. He put up 7, 6.5, 7.5 and I'm sure if he's getting that based on a lot of tape and analytics showing he's capable of far more. Meanwhile Trent has 2.5, 3.5, 9, and 4 and happened to be 2 years older at the time of his deal with one year less of league inflation. I'm not saying that $18 for Flowers isn't outrageous, as I think it is, but he's also a vastly superior talent. Kinda Apples/Oranges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said: Trey Flowers is getting 18 mil a year after a 7.5 sack season. Youve obviously come up with some original math. Who was you math teacher? Nancy Pelosi? It’s hard to argue with people who have made up their minds and won’t listen to reason. Was it value last year? No, probably not. Let’s see how it plays out. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said: Consistency and availability. He put up 7, 6.5, 7.5 and I'm sure if he's getting that based on a lot of tape and analytics showing he's capable of far more. Meanwhile Trent has 2.5, 3.5, 9, and 4 and happened to be 2 years older at the time of his deal with one year less of league inflation. I'm not saying that $18 for Flowers isn't outrageous, as I think it is, but he's also a vastly superior talent. Kinda Apples/Oranges. 9 before the injury is the important one. I disagree, he just wasnt coming off a major injury. If Murphy really is 100% the Treys numbers wont be as good and hes making more than twice as much. Edited June 20, 2019 by formerlyofCtown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 Just now, formerlyofCtown said: 9 before the injury is the important one. I'll happily take 4 if you think he'll hit 9 sacks again. Do you think they'd push so hard for Ziggy Ansah just to be a rotational player if they actually believed Murphy was who they thought he was? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said: I'll happily take 4 if you think he'll hit 9 sacks again. Do you think they'd push so hard for Ziggy Ansah just to be a rotational player if they actually believed Murphy was who they thought he was? You always look to get better. On any given day, at any position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocCityRoller Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 12 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said: He's being paid a contract as a 10 sack per year guy as he's not. Worse yet, he's not healthy and the Bills either knew that and paid him anyway, or they didn't and they're incompetent. You pick. And at what point did he look "fine" last year? If you pay for a car over 3 years but you don't get to have it until the second year do you still consider it paying $300 a month? He ate up our cap and wasted a roster spot for a whole season. Because You don't predict future results off of statistical outliers. If you take away his one big contract year you get an average of 3.33 sacks per year. If you don't want to do that because it was a real season he played in where he got 9 sacks, you end up with Albert Haynesworth. The kid just isn't starting material. 10 sack a year DEs don't get paid only 7-9 million a year. Demarcus Lawrence has exactly 2 years of 10+ sack production out of 5 years and got 5 yrs, 105 million and 65 million guaranteed. Trent Murphy had one year of 9.0 sack production in three years and got 3 years and 21 million. It is in line. We agree, chasing players with significant injury histories and one or two years of production is not ideal. But making it sound like the Bills 'broke the bank' on this guy is equally ridiculous. He is a 'roll the dice' type of player. The Bills had more money than FAs willing to sign the year the deal was made. They still have @ $50 million next year. A team has to spend to a minimum, so why not roll the dice. I'm not a fan of the signing, but I understand why it was done, and I wish him well this year. 15 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said: Trey Flowers is getting 18 mil a year after a 7.5 sack season. Youve obviously come up with some original math. Who was you math teacher? Nancy Pelosi? Common Core obviously.... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocCityRoller Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 (edited) 30 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said: I'll happily take 4 if you think he'll hit 9 sacks again. Do you think they'd push so hard for Ziggy Ansah just to be a rotational player if they actually believed Murphy was who they thought he was? Believe it or not he hit 4 last year. I see 6-8 this year, if healthy that is the big if Ziggy is washed up, and has a lot more issues IMO. Edited June 20, 2019 by RocCityRoller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 14 hours ago, HOUSE said: Which pic is this one, the knee, the ankle or the hamstring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 5 hours ago, BullBuchanan said: I'll happily take 4 if you think he'll hit 9 sacks again. Do you think they'd push so hard for Ziggy Ansah just to be a rotational player if they actually believed Murphy was who they thought he was? They obviously didnt push to hard, he didnt sign here now did he. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badassgixxer05 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 (edited) 22 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said: McD put a lot of his eggs in the Murphy basket, which could end badly. Though I hope Trent is the edge/DE they envisioned he'd be because the Bills need it. 6 years 100 million. Now that was all the eggs in the Williams basket. 3 years 21 million is like a couple peeps in the Murphy basket?♀️. If he has a good year that will be a good discount. If not, no one will remember or even care about the signing/contract after next year... Edited June 20, 2019 by badassgixxer05 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket94 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 Give Murphy one more year...no excuses now. We need help and production from the edge. Lets see what he can do. I don't feel he is any long term solution anyway. The Bills will be addressing this in the near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 The Bills defense was pretty good last year and it had nothing to do with Trent Murphy. The Bills still have plenty of cap space so Murphy hasn’t hurt them there either. So as I see it he’s like a ‘free’ free agent this year. I see no downside here. I’m rooting for the guy to be a surprise addition! Go Bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 41 minutes ago, Rocket94 said: Give Murphy one more year...no excuses now. We need help and production from the edge. Lets see what he can do. I don't feel he is any long term solution anyway. The Bills will be addressing this in the near future. No they should just cut him now because of last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket94 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 Just now, Doc said: No they should just cut him now because of last year. Well, I felt the same way myself not long ago...but if we can squeeze some production from him why not? The DE position concerns me the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 1 hour ago, badassgixxer05 said: 6 years 100 million. Now that was all the eggs in the Williams basket. 3 years 21 million is like a couple peeps in the Murphy basket?♀️. If he has a good year that will be a good discount. If not, no one will remember or even care about the signing/contract after next year... It Isn't financial as much as it is positional commitment. The F.O. did not really address the DE/edge position this offseason. Given Murphy's health track record, that is a big gamble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badassgixxer05 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said: It Isn't financial as much as it is positional commitment. The F.O. did not really address the DE/edge position this offseason. Given Murphy's health track record, that is a big gamble. Ahh, you may be right there. I would have liked to see them draft a backup plan, or a tleast bring in a FA for some competition. They still have some cap space, so may see them bring someone in late camp if Murphy isn't looking so good. Word on the street is that he looks great though. Depth still would be nice to add too either way.. 10 hours ago, BullBuchanan said: He's being paid a contract as a 10 sack per year guy as he's not. Hughes is getting 11mil and he is only a 6 sack a year guy right now. More to DE then just getting sacks. Trent will set the edge and force a lot of stuff inside to our new flashy toy. All will be well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribo Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 I saw Murphy play in Washington quite a bit. He clearly wasn't the same player last season, and I wasn't surprised given his injuries in 2017. But if he is really healthy again, he'll be very important for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 I was hoping this was a good add to our D & i think we saw flashes of it last year the guy just never quits which is a good thing but if your not 100% on the field it can show up but i think this season will show the true player that he is & both Murphy & Hughes will reap the benefit of his health !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 5 hours ago, ScottLaw said: He got more money else where. The reason he isn't here. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket94 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 3 hours ago, badassgixxer05 said: Ahh, you may be right there. I would have liked to see them draft a backup plan, or a tleast bring in a FA for some competition. They still have some cap space, so may see them bring someone in late camp if Murphy isn't looking so good. Word on the street is that he looks great though. Depth still would be nice to add too either way.. Hughes is getting 11mil and he is only a 6 sack a year guy right now. More to DE then just getting sacks. Trent will set the edge and force a lot of stuff inside to our new flashy toy. All will be well. In theory it sounds wonderful! We still need to find a bona fide playmaker at DE. Where we get him...who knows! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 4 hours ago, badassgixxer05 said: Ahh, you may be right there. I would have liked to see them draft a backup plan, or a tleast bring in a FA for some competition. They still have some cap space, so may see them bring someone in late camp if Murphy isn't looking so good. Word on the street is that he looks great though. Depth still would be nice to add too either way.. It's a gamble, but maybe not such a huge one. I think a lot of fans are unwilling to account for the effects of injury. They become "excuses" for poor play, instead of "reasons." Murphy is only 28-- far from over the hill. Obviously, he was recovering from, and playing through injury last season. His production before that was stellar. So, the question become: Is he injury prone, or is he fully recovered? Fans tend to be far more apt to assume injury prone, and less willing to accept the possibility of recovery. Also, I don't see that there has been a lot of opportunity to improve Murphy's position, so far. Ansah has his own (more current) injury issues, and was likely too expensive. And I don't know of any later round picks that would have been better than what we already have. Maybe there will be an opportunity in the coming months to trade for someone dominant (we can dream of Clowney?), but Murphy at 100% isn't someone we have seen in a Bills uni, other than in these last OTAs, which don't show us much for defensive linemen. I think this is a guy that will be exciting to see once the pads come on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 19 hours ago, Augie said: Let’s see what he can do when fully healthy. He needed to be physically and mentally ready, and I’ll not judge until after this season. Maybe it was indeed a mistake, and maybe not. I’m not hovering over anyone looking to harp on every single mistake they make at work. THAT would be horrible management. You are judged on the body of your work. Some people don’t understand that. This year is what Beane bet upon. He knew what he bought. Let us All hope he can make Beane look smart. be best for everyone really. Even my friend Bull : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 9 hours ago, SoCal Deek said: The Bills defense was pretty good last year and it had nothing to do with Trent Murphy. The Bills still have plenty of cap space so Murphy hasn’t hurt them there either. So as I see it he’s like a ‘free’ free agent this year. I see no downside here. I’m rooting for the guy to be a surprise addition! Go Bills Nicely put. at least he doesn't get migraines... 8 hours ago, badassgixxer05 said: Ahh, you may be right there. I would have liked to see them draft a backup plan, or a tleast bring in a FA for some competition. They still have some cap space, so may see them bring someone in late camp if Murphy isn't looking so good. Word on the street is that he looks great though. Depth still would be nice to add too either way.. Hughes is getting 11mil and he is only a 6 sack a year guy right now. More to DE then just getting sacks. Trent will set the edge and force a lot of stuff inside to our new flashy toy. All will be well. They have quite few DEs. Lawson comes to mind. Yarborough might have potential. Mike Love Eli Harold. as some have mentioned, next year Bills will know what they have in Lawson and Murphy both. or do not have. Bills will surely reload that position if it becomes a weakness this year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 24 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said: This year is what Beane bet upon. He knew what he bought. Let us All hope he can make Beane look smart. be best for everyone really. Even my friend Bull : ) I absolutely "hope" that it works out, but year after year I see Bills fans hoping that major glaring issues can be hoped away. It's one thing to put a sound and rational plan into place and hope it's finally enough. It's an entirely different thing to throw ***** at the wall and see what sticks. That's my issue with Beane. As much as I like him going out and getting upside guys like Duke Williams and Sills, I just don't see attention to detail paid on players signed to big money contracts or positions of need. Murphy is one of those noodles on the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 10 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said: I absolutely "hope" that it works out, but year after year I see Bills fans hoping that major glaring issues can be hoped away. It's one thing to put a sound and rational plan into place and hope it's finally enough. It's an entirely different thing to throw ***** at the wall and see what sticks. That's my issue with Beane. As much as I like him going out and getting upside guys like Duke Williams and Sills, I just don't see attention to detail paid on players signed to big money contracts or positions of need. Murphy is one of those noodles on the wall. So he stuck? That’s a good thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 18 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said: I absolutely "hope" that it works out, but year after year I see Bills fans hoping that major glaring issues can be hoped away. It's one thing to put a sound and rational plan into place and hope it's finally enough. It's an entirely different thing to throw ***** at the wall and see what sticks. That's my issue with Beane. As much as I like him going out and getting upside guys like Duke Williams and Sills, I just don't see attention to detail paid on players signed to big money contracts or positions of need. Murphy is one of those noodles on the wall. I cannot argue that Beane was taking a calculated risk Murphy would never be the same player. Been a recurring theme for Beane . lets hope they have learned some lessons over time. I think not chasing down Ansah was a sign of a wiser GM 9 minutes ago, Augie said: So he stuck? That’s a good thing! as long as the gravy is ready eh ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 Looks so stiff, if he can even be mediocre that will be a huge upgrade. 6-8 sacks and some consistent play would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 I look at Murphy like I do any other guy that was injured. Hope he comes back healthy and can play at his best level Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 1 hour ago, oldmanfan said: I look at Murphy like I do any other guy that was injured. Hope he comes back healthy and can play at his best level The position is something they will be better able to pursue next offseason Hughes aint gettin any younger either. Am much more concerned about how much the Offense improves this coming season. hope we see some better balance between O and D talent on the field Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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