John Warrow’s High Praise For Beane & McDermott Regime

[GunnerBill]

13 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Lotulelei played 67% of defensive snaps under McDermott in Carolina in 2016.............if you think the intention was for him to play less than 50% of snaps and that would remotely justify $10M per year then I don't know what to tell ya'.    That really doesn't make any sense.   

 

He just didn't play well enough.........that's why he didn't play more.......simple as that.    

 

Gunner and I think he played like garbage but regardless of how sub-par he played he was not good and is being paid like the best run stopper in football......... his contract is awful.

 

Garbage might slightly oversell my view..... Adolphus Washington was garbage. Star by performance last season is a marginal starter / serviceable 'run package only' type rotational player being paid as a top 12 defensive tackle. And that is horrible value. 

[teef]

don't you guys just love us?!

[thebandit27]

[Royale with Cheese]

45 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Lotulelei played 67% of defensive snaps under McDermott in Carolina in 2016.............if you think the intention was for him to play less than 50% of snaps and that would remotely justify $10M per year then I don't know what to tell ya'.    That really doesn't make any sense.   

 

He just didn't play well enough.........that's why he didn't play more.......simple as that.    

 

Gunner and I think he played like garbage but regardless of how sub-par he played he was not good and is being paid like the best run stopper in football......... his contract is awful.

 

If you were just to add up his percentages (rough estimate) of all the seasons Star has played in (minus 2015 when he was out for the year)...it's roughly around 53%-54%.
He also had the second most snaps at the DT position last year.

 

"He didn't play well enough....why he didn't play more".  Actually, when a guy is playing like trash/garbage (your exact words) then he would be taken off the field.  You're not acknowledging that at all....you're trying to find loop holes by now saying "he didn't play more".

 

So lets just get to the point.  Did Sean McDermott continue to play Star even though he could see with his own eyes that he was hurting our defense?  

You tend to get in these long rants when you're trying to make a point.....this is simply a yes or no question.

45 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Lotulelei played 67% of defensive snaps under McDermott in Carolina in 2016.............if you think the intention was for him to play less than 50% of snaps and that would remotely justify $10M per year then I don't know what to tell ya'.    That really doesn't make any sense.   

 

He just didn't play well enough.........that's why he didn't play more.......simple as that.    

 

Gunner and I think he played like garbage but regardless of how sub-par he played he was not good and is being paid like the best run stopper in football......... his contract is awful.

 

You sure about that?

30 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Garbage might slightly oversell my view..... Adolphus Washington was garbage. Star by performance last season is a marginal starter / serviceable 'run package only' type rotational player being paid as a top 12 defensive tackle. And that is horrible value. 

 

Don't you think that in general, FA on the open market are overpaid on average at every position?

Edited June 19, 2019 by Royale with Cheese

[BADOLBILZ]

23 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Garbage might slightly oversell my view..... Adolphus Washington was garbage. Star by performance last season is a marginal starter / serviceable 'run package only' type rotational player being paid as a top 12 defensive tackle. And that is horrible value. 

 

 

Rubbish and garbage are by very definition synonymous..............but the relativity of his play versus his pay factors into that.

 

Adolphus graded out as one of the worst few DL in the NFL..........there is no point in comparing the two.

18 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Put it this way.... the regime has already shown more patience with Star than they did with Dareus. That might be because while he is rubbish he is their rubbish. 

 

 

What was that again?

[BADOLBILZ]

14 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

If you were just to add up his percentages (rough estimate) of all the seasons Star has played in (minus 2015 when he was out for the year)...it's roughly around 53%-54%.
He also had the second most snaps at the DT position last year.

 

"He didn't play well enough....why he didn't play more".  Actually, when a guy is playing like trash/garbage (your exact words) then he would be taken off the field.  You're not acknowledging that at all....you're trying to find loop holes by now saying "he didn't play more".

 

So lets just get to the point.  Did Sean McDermott continue to play Star even though he could see with his own eyes that he was hurting our defense?  

You tend to get in these long rants when you're trying to make a point.....this is simply a yes or no question.

 

 

 

In the three seasons that he didn't miss games to injury in Carolina  he played 60%, 66% and 59% of the teams snaps in those years.   

 

I don't know where you came up with that 53% figure but it's about 10% low.

 

I am guessing you didn't bother to check that Lotulelei missed 2 full games and parts of 2 others in 2014............kinda' like you botched the Jordan Phillips snaps earlier.

 

In short.........for like the 5th time.......forget the stats dude you are terrible at it.

 

And as for your question.........do YOU think Vlad Ducasse playing 53% of offensive snaps proved McDermott thought he wasn't hurting the offense?

 

You are trying to find a conclusion where there isn't one.

 

Sometimes players play simply because there isn't enough depth or quality or even because they were highly paid players and management is hoping they start justifying their contract(you know, like.......Kelvin Benjamin).

 

[GunnerBill]

44 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Rubbish and garbage are by very definition synonymous..............but the relativity of his play versus his pay factors into that.

 

Adolphus graded out as one of the worst few DL in the NFL..........there is no point in comparing the two.

 

What was that again?

 

Yes I was being slightly facetious when I said rubbish. He was though, relative to his pay, indeed rubbish. 

[BillsVet]

13 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

This is ridiculous. Pure fiction.  Inconsistent with the facts.  Totally ignorant of who McDermott is and what he is doing. 

 

But it's creative. Congratulations on that.  

 

Is this supposed to be a rebuttal of someone responding to you?  Because if it is, I'm thinking you did not perform well in Debate Class. 

 

3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

Oh absolutely.

 

I don't think for a minute that McDermott came into this job with an open mind about the personnel.

 

I think he was arrogant like most new HC's but also knew that he wasn't a game changing X and O guy...........and that his background wasn't that impressive so he wasn't going to have an easy time winning over prime age players in ANY locker room outside of Carolina...........and he found a job here in Buffalo where he would be given the freedom to build a roster in his image and jumped at the chance.  

 

For an unsophisticated first time HC who has a lot of re-tread potential this is a very good opportunity..........plenty of built in excuses and if it doesn't work he can say he learned from his "honest" mistakes like trying to improve culture in the next interview.   

 

But I think he's already changed his tune about the sanctity of the process.............losing will do that............and that's why they were all over Antonio Brown who is anything but process when it comes to being a teammate.

 

If they don't win this year it could get ugly like the end of the Jauron era where Dickie went from Jauron Ball to trying to create a no-huddle offense and taking TO into the fold.

 

I don't think McD takes the job without extracting a guarantee from the Pegula's about unprecedented personnel authority.  That they gave it to him with his track record is still surprising. 

 

To go from hiring Rex to two years later going to the other end of the Spectrum in McD is amazing.  And yet, record-wise they were the same after 2 seasons.

 

And, this revolving door that is "the process" will proceed through more iterations before the season is over.

 

 

Edited June 19, 2019 by BillsVet

[Shaw66]

6 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

do YOU think Vlad Ducasse playing 53% of offensive snaps proved McDermott thought he wasn't hurting the offense?

 

One thing that your are consistently misleading about this point.  

 

Offensive guards are supposed to play 100% of the snaps.

 

McDermott intends that his defensive tackles rotate.    In an ideal world they'd be 50-50, but if McD has his druthers, he'll never have a DT over 60%.   40% of the snaps, or whatever Star had last season isn''t bad.  Isn't consistent with what he got paid, but that's a false metric.   The question is whether he did his job, and the ONLY information you have about whether Star did his job on the field is that his snaps were relatively low.  That's ALL you have - no coaches' analysis of his play.   And you have absolutely no information about Star's off-field presence.   

 

 

[K-9]

10 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

One thing that your are consistently misleading about this point.  

 

Offensive guards are supposed to play 100% of the snaps.

 

McDermott intends that his defensive tackles rotate.    In an ideal world they'd be 50-50, but if McD has his druthers, he'll never have a DT over 60%.   40% of the snaps, or whatever Star had last season isn''t bad.  Isn't consistent with what he got paid, but that's a false metric.   The question is whether he did his job, and the ONLY information you have about whether Star did his job on the field is that his snaps were relatively low.  That's ALL you have - no coaches' analysis of his play.   And you have absolutely no information about Star's off-field presence.   

 

 

Good point. 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, thebandit27 said:

 

 

We are 63% of the snaps toward 100 pages.

 

This one's for John!

[mannc]

Since this is headed for 100 pages, can we get the OP to spell Wawrow’s name correctly in the title?

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

In the three seasons that he didn't miss games to injury in Carolina  he played 60%, 66% and 59% of the teams snaps in those years.   

 

I don't know where you came up with that 53% figure but it's about 10% low.

 

I am guessing you didn't bother to check that Lotulelei missed 2 full games and parts of 2 others in 2014............kinda' like you botched the Jordan Phillips snaps earlier.

 

In short.........for like the 5th time.......forget the stats dude you are terrible at it.

 

And as for your question.........do YOU think Vlad Ducasse playing 53% of offensive snaps proved McDermott thought he wasn't hurting the offense?

 

You are trying to find a conclusion where there isn't one.

 

Sometimes players play simply because there isn't enough depth or quality or even because they were highly paid players and management is hoping they start justifying their contract(you know, like.......Kelvin Benjamin).

 

 

I added all the percentages roughly, I told you that.  I didn't miss it, I used it.  That's roughly the average of all the years he has played, including last year.

 

Are you really comparing Vlad Ducasse's situation to Star's?  Vlad Ducasse was inactive the last 6 games of the season.  How many games was Star inactive last year?

 

McDermott stated that he wanted to play the younger guys which is why Benjamin got reduced snaps.  https://billswire.usatoday.com/2018/12/01/sean-mcdermott-discusses-kelvin-benjamins-reduced-role-buffalo-bills-miami-dolphins/

I appreciate the way that he works because to your point, his reps have gone down and that’s more so because of wanting to see some of the younger guys and also younger guys, when given the opportunity, are making the most of it, making the plays,” McDermott said.

 

Happened with Ducasse as well with putting Teller out there...youth movement there.  We had the lowest paid offensive line in the league as a unit by far.

Ducasse was playing because he had literally nothing behind him.  Teller was inactive 8 games who eventually replaced him.

 

Only, if only we had drafted a young DT that played the same position as Star....I guess we didn't since Star continued to play throughout the season.  

 

So lets take a look at the 3 guys you have in your post.  Benjamin cut, Ducasse cut, Star still a starter.....apples to apples comparison there....

32 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

One thing that your are consistently misleading about this point.  

 

Offensive guards are supposed to play 100% of the snaps.

 

McDermott intends that his defensive tackles rotate.    In an ideal world they'd be 50-50, but if McD has his druthers, he'll never have a DT over 60%.   40% of the snaps, or whatever Star had last season isn''t bad.  Isn't consistent with what he got paid, but that's a false metric.   The question is whether he did his job, and the ONLY information you have about whether Star did his job on the field is that his snaps were relatively low.  That's ALL you have - no coaches' analysis of his play.   And you have absolutely no information about Star's off-field presence.   

 

 

 

No...he will argue McDermott's pride as well.

[Shaw66]

7 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

 

No...he will argue McDermott's pride as well.

Like there's a lot of evidence that McD makes decisions based on his pride.  

[K-9]

25 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I added all the percentages roughly, I told you that.  I didn't miss it, I used it.  That's roughly the average of all the years he has played, including last year.

 

Are you really comparing Vlad Ducasse's situation to Star's?  Vlad Ducasse was inactive the last 6 games of the season.  How many games was Star inactive last year?

 

McDermott stated that he wanted to play the younger guys which is why Benjamin got reduced snaps.  https://billswire.usatoday.com/2018/12/01/sean-mcdermott-discusses-kelvin-benjamins-reduced-role-buffalo-bills-miami-dolphins/

I appreciate the way that he works because to your point, his reps have gone down and that’s more so because of wanting to see some of the younger guys and also younger guys, when given the opportunity, are making the most of it, making the plays,” McDermott said.

 

Happened with Ducasse as well with putting Teller out there...youth movement there.  We had the lowest paid offensive line in the league as a unit by far.

Ducasse was playing because he had literally nothing behind him.  Teller was inactive 8 games who eventually replaced him.

 

Only, if only we had drafted a young DT that played the same position as Star....I guess we didn't since Star continued to play throughout the season.  

 

So lets take a look at the 3 guys you have in your post.  Benjamin cut, Ducasse cut, Star still a starter.....apples to apples comparison there....

 

No...he will argue McDermott's pride as well.

Just as a point of clarification, I believe Ducasse is still on the team. I suspect it’s only a matter of time before he’s cut, though.

[BADOLBILZ]

35 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

One thing that your are consistently misleading about this point.  

 

Offensive guards are supposed to play 100% of the snaps.

 

McDermott intends that his defensive tackles rotate.    In an ideal world they'd be 50-50, but if McD has his druthers, he'll never have a DT over 60%.   40% of the snaps, or whatever Star had last season isn''t bad.  Isn't consistent with what he got paid, but that's a false metric.   The question is whether he did his job, and the ONLY information you have about whether Star did his job on the field is that his snaps were relatively low.  That's ALL you have - no coaches' analysis of his play.   And you have absolutely no information about Star's off-field presence.   

 

 

 

 

Ok Adolphus Washington played 46% of snaps in 2017..........is that an indicator whatsoever that McDermott didn't think he was hurting the defense?

 

I think the McDruthers would be to have a 1 tech he could play 60-65% of snaps(like he used Lotulelei in Carolina) and a 3 tech who could play about 70-73% (like Kawann Short in 2015 and 2016)...........but if he could have two Kawann Short's at DT3T then maybe he'd be OK with 50/50 like you said.

[SoTier]

On 6/18/2019 at 2:53 PM, Chemical said:

 

Yes we know that. The debate comes from people thinking it was a good decision. It was not 

 

McDermott or Beane made the decision, ergo it must be a good one, just like naming Nathan Peterman the starter and then trading away AJ McCarron.  Brilliant!

 

On 6/18/2019 at 3:07 PM, K-9 said:

So, coach. How do you manage that situation knowing that he’s not committed to your program, doesn’t want to be on your team, has chronic tardiness issues, and gives a half assed effort half the time ALL while you’re a first year coach trying to establish YOUR vision, YOUR culture, and YOUR rules of conduct? 

Yeah, it’s much more productive to keep ripping him for making the mistake in the first place. You ever make a mistake and own up to it? 

 

Your second sentence is asinine. 

 

 

Well, maybe McDermott just doesn't have the temperament to be a HC in the salary cap era.  Successful coaches have always found ways to deal with difficult but talented players, and that's even more important in this era when the salary cap imposes significant limits on teams' ability to fashion "perfect" rosters, however, the GM/HC define "perfect". 

[SoTier]

On 6/18/2019 at 3:30 PM, K-9 said:

No, YOU don’t give him credit. Others can and I do. He tried something, it didn’t work. He owned it, moved on, and tried to correct it. You seem to see that as some sort of character flaw. Are you so f**king perfect that you’ve never screwed up, admitted it, and tried to correct it? 

 

Dareus wanted out of Buffalo. Period. End of story. His character issues notwithstanding, and there were several. His chronic tardiness issues, showing up fat and out of shape, being one more infraction away from a suspension, and half assed efforts the first month of the season, were not “perceived.” They were DEMONSTRATED. More than a few times, too. More patience? McDermott gave him 10 months to get on board and turn it around. Other coaches may not have been so patient.

 

As for reuniting with Marrone? Good for them! Feel free to play some Peaches and Herb in their honor. 

 

Yeah, yeah, yeah ....  every time the Bills trade away a talented player for the equivalent of used athletic equipment, Bills fans rally around the GM/HC/whoever responsible for making said trade with the trite "he didn't want to be here" bull manure.    It's the perfect refuge when said traded player like Jason Peters and Marshawn Lynch go on to become All Pros.  If Dareus regains his All Pro form, the Bills will be three-for-three.  

[K-9]

5 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

McDermott or Beane made the decision, ergo it must be a good one, just like naming Nathan Peterman the starter and then trading away AJ McCarron.  Brilliant!

 

 

Well, maybe McDermott just doesn't have the temperament to be a HC in the salary cap era.  Successful coaches have always found ways to deal with difficult but talented players, and that's even more important in this era when the salary cap imposes significant limits on teams' ability to fashion "perfect" rosters, however, the GM/HC define "perfect". 

How long do you think Dareus would last with Belichick?

 

McD doesn’t have the temperament. Right. 

Just now, SoTier said:

 

Yeah, yeah, yeah ....  every time the Bills trade away a talented player for the equivalent of used athletic equipment, Bills fans rally around the GM/HC/whoever responsible for making said trade with the trite "he didn't want to be here" bull manure.    It's the perfect refuge when said traded player like Jason Peters and Marshawn Lynch go on to become All Pros.  If Dareus regains his All Pro form, the Bills will be three-for-three.  

I hope Dareus does just that. Good for him.

 

But let’s not conflate every F***king trade made by various regimes. It’s a weak argument as it has ZERO to do with anything Dareus. 

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, SoTier said:

 

Yeah, yeah, yeah ....  every time the Bills trade away a talented player for the equivalent of used athletic equipment, Bills fans rally around the GM/HC/whoever responsible for making said trade with the trite "he didn't want to be here" bull manure.    It's the perfect refuge when said traded player like Jason Peters and Marshawn Lynch go on to become All Pros.  If Dareus regains his All Pro form, the Bills will be three-for-three.  

I will put money down right now that Dareus does not sniff All Pro status again.  Do you recall the incident with him missing the bus?  McD was quoted afterward about how they had talked it out and Dareus understood things.  There were pictures of the two of them talking things over on the practice field. Dareus simply did not want to step up.  And thus got traded.

 

in your company or whomever you work for, is it your policy to have your highest paid employee be the one that flaunts the rules and becomes a problem, or do you expect your highest paid employee to be one of your leaders?

 

And Lynch and his agent told Buddy he would not resign after they drafted Spiller.  That is reality. 

 

As I have said before a opinions are fine but should have some basis in fact and logic.

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, K-9 said:

Just as a point of clarification, I believe Ducasse is still on the team. I suspect it’s only a matter of time before he’s cut, though.

 

 

But he played over half of the snaps last year.........McDermott couldn't have thought he was hurting the offense?    ?

 

I keeed.............but I actually approve of him still being on the roster.........we've seen situations where O-lines have been thoroughly decimated by injury.............no point cutting Vlad the Imploder out of spite for his poor play in the past when it isn't costing you anything to keep a veteran who knows the offense around until you are sure you have a healthy group of better options as the season closes in.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Like there's a lot of evidence that McD makes decisions based on his pride.  

 

 

There are instances where it could certainly be construed as a factor...........KB and Peterman, for example.

 

I suspect that if Star stinks it up this year they will gradually cut his snaps and phase him out and take the $8M cap hit next winter but pride will be a factor.........I think they give him every chance to re-establish himself because it's going to be a BAD look if he struggles again.

[oldmanfan]

17 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

There are instances where it could certainly be construed as a factor...........KB and Peterman, for example.

 

I suspect that if Star stinks it up this year they will gradually cut his snaps and phase him out and take the $8M cap hit next winter but pride will be a factor.........I think they give him every chance to re-establish himself because it's going to be a BAD look if he struggles again.

He didn't struggle.  He ate up blocks.  That's what McD said.  And if McD was consumed with pride he would not have stood in front of the team, told them he made a mistake starting Peterman, and reinstalled Taylor as starter.

 

You can keep claiming the sky is green all year long if you want, but your ranting about it won't make you right.

26 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

But he played over half of the snaps last year.........McDermott couldn't have thought he was hurting the offense?    ?

 

I keeed.............but I actually approve of him still being on the roster.........we've seen situations where O-lines have been thoroughly decimated by injury.............no point cutting Vlad the Imploder out of spite for his poor play in the past when it isn't costing you anything to keep a veteran who knows the offense around until you are sure you have a healthy group of better options as the season closes in.

 

Sigh.  Maybe half the total snaps because when starting he played all downs then sat when they pulled him for Teller.  Shaw has already explained that.

 

I could be wrong.  Go ahead and pull his snaps per individual game and check.

[Royale with Cheese]

4 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Ok Adolphus Washington played 46% of snaps in 2017..........is that an indicator whatsoever that McDermott didn't think he was hurting the defense?

 

I think the McDruthers would be to have a 1 tech he could play 60-65% of snaps(like he used Lotulelei in Carolina) and a 3 tech who could play about 70-73% (like Kawann Short in 2015 and 2016)...........but if he could have two Kawann Short's at DT3T then maybe he'd be OK with 50/50 like you said.

 

We were very limited at DT in 2017 which is why Washington played so much.  Why do you think we have Star his contract?  Because we didn’t want to play guys at Adolphus’s level anymore, we wanted better and there’s a reason we went early after Star.  Let’s put two and two together.

 

Same with Ducasse.  We were limited at interior guard, which is why he played.  That’s why we signed several offensive lineman this FA period....so we don’t have to play Ducasse level players anymore.  We want better and now have the financial luxury to do so.

[BADOLBILZ]

27 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

He didn't struggle.  He ate up blocks.  That's what McD said.  And if McD was consumed with pride he would not have stood in front of the team, told them he made a mistake starting Peterman, and reinstalled Taylor as starter.

 

You can keep claiming the sky is green all year long if you want, but your ranting about it won't make you right.

Sigh.  Maybe half the total snaps because when starting he played all downs then sat when they pulled him for Teller.  Shaw has already explained that.

 

I could be wrong.  Go ahead and pull his snaps per individual game and check.

 

I didn't say McD was "consumed" by pride..........but keeping Peterman around into the 2018 season when he had shown very little upside and had produced the worst quarterbacked half of football in NFL history was either McDermott being stubborn or just a very bad judge of talent.

 

And don't tell @Gugny that McDermott stood in front of the team and told them benching Taylor for Peterman was a mistake.

 

As far as Ducasse snaps go I have no idea what your point is.    He played 53% of the Bills snaps.   Royale's argument was that Star playing 45% of snaps proved that McD really liked the work he was doing.........my point is that there are many reasons why players play significant amounts of snaps.    I mean if the Bills loved Wyatt Teller so much in place of Ducasse why did they sign and draft about 5 different guys for him to try to stave off to retain his starting job?    I think we know the answer...........they didn't really like either Ducasse or Teller. 

[BADOLBILZ]

4 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

We were very limited at DT in 2017 which is why Washington played so much.  Why do you think we have Star his contract?  Because we didn’t want to play guys at Adolphus’s level anymore, we wanted better and there’s a reason we went early after Star.  Let’s put two and two together.

 

Same with Ducasse.  We were limited at interior guard, which is why he played.  That’s why we signed several offensive lineman this FA period....so we don’t have to play Ducasse level players anymore.  We want better and now have the financial luxury to do so.

 

 

You don't give a run stopping DT the top of the market contract for that type of position just because you need something better than one of the very worst DT's in the league.

 

You do that because you think you are getting a really good player.

 

They didn't get that though and few outside of them thought they would............as I said the contract was panned as awful and that was BEFORE he played his worst season as a pro.

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

You don't give a run stopping DT the top of the market contract for that type of position just because you need something better than one of the very worst DT's in the league.

 

You do that because you think you are getting a really good player.

 

They didn't get that though and few outside of them thought they would............as I said the contract was panned as awful and that was BEFORE he played his worst season as a pro.

 

Well McDermott and Beane think differently.

They offered this contract because McDermott believes he’s an important piece to his defense.  That’s what it comes down to.

[Augie]

3 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Well McDermott and Beane think differently.

They offered this contract because McDermott believes he’s an important piece to his defense.  That’s what it comes down to.

 

No GM or team gets every decision right 100% of the time. Often there are shades of gray. I think we get more right than wrong under the current regime. Some arm chair GM’s want to act like they are smarter than the GM and coaches by latching on to certain things that either failed miserably (yeah, that’s YOU, KB) or are more questionable (in this case Star). Eventually, they will be judged by results and either remain employed.....or not. 

 

But my point is this - those who act like they KNOW should go be a GM or HC. Are they making the millions every year that our FO makes? Can they not afford the pay cut? I get we all have opinions, but if you constantly belittle the FO decisions by cherry picking a few things that don’t work out, I sure hope you are 100% right EVERY SINGLE DAY at your job. 

[SoTier]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

But he played over half of the snaps last year.........McDermott couldn't have thought he was hurting the offense?    ?

 

I keeed.............but I actually approve of him still being on the roster.........we've seen situations where O-lines have been thoroughly decimated by injury.............no point cutting Vlad the Imploder out of spite for his poor play in the past when it isn't costing you anything to keep a veteran who knows the offense around until you are sure you have a healthy group of better options as the season closes in.

 

 

Vlad the Imploder is what he's always been: an okay backup guard who can give a reasonable imitation of a starter in a pinch between a decent center and OT.  Whaley signed him to backup John Mills, who had looked so promising as a rookie, but who imploded under the tutelage of McDermott and Castillo, so Ducasse became the defacto starting RG in 2017 and 2018.

[oldmanfan]

54 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

I didn't say McD was "consumed" by pride..........but keeping Peterman around into the 2018 season when he had shown very little upside and had produced the worst quarterbacked half of football in NFL history was either McDermott being stubborn or just a very bad judge of talent.

 

And don't tell @Gugny that McDermott stood in front of the team and told them benching Taylor for Peterman was a mistake.

 

As far as Ducasse snaps go I have no idea what your point is.    He played 53% of the Bills snaps.   Royale's argument was that Star playing 45% of snaps proved that McD really liked the work he was doing.........my point is that there are many reasons why players play significant amounts of snaps.    I mean if the Bills loved Wyatt Teller so much in place of Ducasse why did they sign and draft about 5 different guys for him to try to stave off to retain his starting job?    I think we know the answer...........they didn't really like either Ducasse or Teller. 

You may have used a different word than consumed but you said pride affected his decisions.

 

It's one thing to have different opinions; we can debate those honestly.  But when you refuse to own your own words as you do that's another matter entirely.

 

And Shaw already explained snap count differences between offense and defense but you just ignore things that show the error of your thoughts.  

Edited June 20, 2019 by oldmanfan

[JoeF]

38 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

No GM or team gets every decision right 100% of the time. Often there are shades of gray. I think we get more right than wrong under the current regime. Some arm chair GM’s want to act like they are smarter than the GM and coaches by latching on to certain things that either failed miserably (yeah, that’s YOU, KB) or are more questionable (in this case Star). Eventually, they will be judged by results and either remain employed.....or not. 

 

But my point is this - those who act like they KNOW should go be a GM or HC. Are they making the millions every year that our FO makes? Can they not afford the pay cut? I get we all have opinions, but if you constantly belittle the FO decisions by cherry picking a few things that don’t work out, I sure hope you are 100% right EVERY SINGLE DAY at your job. 

We judge moves as fans knowing about 10% of the information Beane and McDermott have at their disposal.  We look at training camp practices, preseason games, and games and think we know a player.  We know little about a player's work ethic, attitude, intellect, temperament, who he hangs with, what the security report/background check says, how he has responded to making actual money...how can we judge?

 

The reason I like this regime is that all the factors outside the on-field performance matter a lot to them and I think they are vital in building a roster.  To your point, no one is going to get this 100% correct....but this team needed the hope of a franchise QB badly and this regime got rid of guys who for one reason or another didn't fit to get the best hope for a franchise QB since 2/1/1997.

Edited June 20, 2019 by JoeF

[Gugny]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

And don't tell @Gugny that McDermott stood in front of the team and told them benching Taylor for Peterman was a mistake.

 

Link?

[oldmanfan]

1 hour ago, Gugny said:

 

Link?

I brought it up and so I looked back.  I don't find the one I recalled from memory; I recall something from Kyle about it.  McD stood up and said he did not regret the decision but did regret the result.  And put Taylor back in as starter.  So I can't say for sure he apologized.  I can say if he was being driven by pride he would not have stood up and admitted he didn't like the result, and that starting Taylor the next week is likewise evidence of pride not driving decisions.

[GunnerBill]

7 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

I didn't say McD was "consumed" by pride..........but keeping Peterman around into the 2018 season when he had shown very little upside and had produced the worst quarterbacked half of football in NFL history was either McDermott being stubborn or just a very bad judge of talent.

 

And don't tell @Gugny that McDermott stood in front of the team and told them benching Taylor for Peterman was a mistake.

 

As far as Ducasse snaps go I have no idea what your point is.    He played 53% of the Bills snaps.   Royale's argument was that Star playing 45% of snaps proved that McD really liked the work he was doing.........my point is that there are many reasons why players play significant amounts of snaps.    I mean if the Bills loved Wyatt Teller so much in place of Ducasse why did they sign and draft about 5 different guys for him to try to stave off to retain his starting job?    I think we know the answer...........they didn't really like either Ducasse or Teller. 

 

We know why McDermott loved Peterman. Good guy, God fearing. And of course he (Peterman) said many times that only God was allowed to judge him so maybe McDermott kept him on the roster in fear of annoying the big man upstairs?

 

I am a big McDermott fan but I am utterly convinced that Beane had to step in on Peterman and say "Enough is enough Sean. This guy is gonna get us both fired."

[GunnerBill]

7 hours ago, Augie said:

But my point is this - those who act like they KNOW should go be a GM or HC. Are they making the millions every year that our FO makes? Can they not afford the pay cut? I get we all have opinions, but if you constantly belittle the FO decisions by cherry picking a few things that don’t work out, I sure hope you are 100% right EVERY SINGLE DAY at your job. 

 

Let me just respond a little to this because I reckon it comes up half a dozen times a year. Being a senior exec in a Front Office pays well. But the entry level positions to an NFL front office career do not. Scouting assistants, even area and regional scouts, are not paid well and that is a barrier to people entering the profession. 

 

I mean in my case a visa would be an issue too but if I did decide to throw my pretty well paid job in to chase the dream of being an NFL GM it would, in the initial stages, be a significant pay cut. 

 

As for whether I get things wrong in my job.... I do. Probably daily. But I have never been Nathan Peterman level wrong about anything. When you make a call that blows up that badly and you stick to your guns and make the same call again and it blows up spectacularly again in a lot of jobs that is your lot. 

[eball]

If McD is afraid of star players with egos can anyone explain Shady to me?  Why didn't he jettison McCoy?  If your answer is that the Bills "bought" Shady's buy-in to McD's culture I call b.s.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 hours ago, eball said:

If McD is afraid of star players with egos can anyone explain Shady to me?  Why didn't he jettison McCoy?  If your answer is that the Bills "bought" Shady's buy-in to McD's culture I call b.s.

 

That BS is the same BS that says McD has a religious requirement for all his players.

 

It's all BS from people who don't like the man personally for one reason or another. EDIT: Usually that reason is the cutting of either booboo foot or rear-admiral Dareus.

 

Edited June 20, 2019 by Joe in Winslow

[Augie]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Let me just respond a little to this because I reckon it comes up half a dozen times a year. Being a senior exec in a Front Office pays well. But the entry level positions to an NFL front office career do not. Scouting assistants, even area and regional scouts, are not paid well and that is a barrier to people entering the profession. 

 

I mean in my case a visa would be an issue too but if I did decide to throw my pretty well paid job in to chase the dream of being an NFL GM it would, in the initial stages, be a significant pay cut. 

 

As for whether I get things wrong in my job.... I do. Probably daily. But I have never been Nathan Peterman level wrong about anything. When you make a call that blows up that badly and you stick to your guns and make the same call again and it blows up spectacularly again in a lot of jobs that is your lot. 

 

I respect that, and good for you. Again, you are one I truly respect. I suspect some others out there are much less accomplished and just like to spout off from their couch like they know more than the FO. But this is a good example of why you don’t paint with too broad of a brush. 

[Royale with Cheese]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Let me just respond a little to this because I reckon it comes up half a dozen times a year. Being a senior exec in a Front Office pays well. But the entry level positions to an NFL front office career do not. Scouting assistants, even area and regional scouts, are not paid well and that is a barrier to people entering the profession. 

 

I mean in my case a visa would be an issue too but if I did decide to throw my pretty well paid job in to chase the dream of being an NFL GM it would, in the initial stages, be a significant pay cut. 

 

As for whether I get things wrong in my job.... I do. Probably daily. But I have never been Nathan Peterman level wrong about anything. When you make a call that blows up that badly and you stick to your guns and make the same call again and it blows up spectacularly again in a lot of jobs that is your lot. 

 

Let me ask you this.

 

If you have a spouse and they get a promotion or another job that pays enough to offset the pay cut....would you then consider the Front Office dream?

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Let me ask you this.

 

If you have a spouse and they get a promotion or another job that pays enough to offset the pay cut....would you then consider the Front Office dream?

 

If you are asking me personally..... I would need that spouse to be American as well in order to comply with your Visa requirements. ☺️

 

If I won a few million on the UK lottery (I only play about twice a year) I would quit my job, buy a green card, and write to the Bills asking them to give me an unpaid internship in the scouting department.