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Christian Wilkins

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5 hours ago, mrags said:

Don’t like any of his strengths then I guess. 

 

Strengths
  • Locker room leader with character that is off the charts
  • Face of the franchise personality
  • Experience as base end and defensive tackle
  • Instant snap reaction with fast hands into contact
  • Highly efficient in his movement
  • Stays under opponent's pads throughout the rep
  • Lateral quickness to disrupt in gaps
  • Can contort and slither around blocker's pads
  • Rare flexibility creates functional balance at awkward angles
  • Short area agility of a linebacker
  • Active to improve rush positioning
  • Shifts hips for optimal cornering inside the pocket
  • Can drop into space on zone-blitz calls
  • Batted down 15 passes during career

 

That was only fair.....

 

Both sides. We need to look at the full picture. (And I don’t pretend to know the answer, but I’d be concerned at 9.) 

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There may be more disruptive defensive linemen available when Buffalo is picking.  I wouldn't be totally shocked if he is Buffalo's pick.  I just don't think he is the most likely choice at this point.

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Cuz Shaq Lawson and Sammy Watkins has put the taste after you throw up in my mouth with players from Clemson

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3 minutes ago, McBean said:

Cuz Shaq Lawson and Sammy Watkins has put the taste after you throw up in my mouth with players from Clemson

 

There was a saying back in my lending days along the lines of “because you had to repo a blue Chevy does not mean you shouldn’t lend on Chevy’s, or anything blue”. True in lending, true in drafting. Every deal is a NEW deal, but in this case, I do have reservations at 9. 

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3 hours ago, Augie said:

 

That was only fair.....

 

Both sides. We need to look at the full picture. (And I don’t pretend to know the answer, but I’d be concerned at 9.) 

So you should be concerned with Ed Oliver at 9 as well because he has weaknesses?

 

 

Strengths
  • Elite athlete with high-end foot quickness, agility and fluidity
  • Built low and plays with leverage on his side
  • As twitchy and sudden as any interior lineman you will see
  • Freak-daddy workouts expected for quickness and explosion testing
  • Explodes into blockers with jarring pop for early advantages
  • Instinctive and early play diagnosis
  • Rare initial quickness to disrupt in gaps
  • Posted 53 tackles for loss in just three years
  • Direct, inside hands and plays under opponent's pads
  • Linebacker speed for extended range to tackle
  • Plays with consistent motor and overall hustle
  • Works to half-man in his rush
  • Tilts blocker with jab step before hitting slap-rip counter to opposite edge
  • Body control for efficient, edge to edge counters
  • Pairs spin counter with athletic ability to eat as secondary rusher
Weaknesses
  • Squatty, unimposing frame falls below NFL size norms inside
  • Scouts say he played under 280 pounds
  • Lacks functional length
  • Gets mauled by down blocks and double teams
  • Struggles at times when offenses run downhill at him
  • Gets clogged up against wide-bodies
  • Unable to sustain early jolts into extended power
  • Backdoors blocks in lateral pursuit rather than winning across the face
  • Forced to work excessively at disengaging from blocks
  • Failed to convert explosiveness into impressive sack totals
  • Rush attack is more predictable than diverse

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10 hours ago, Bakin said:

Tell me why this high quality young man SHOULD NOT be our pick at 9.....

Burden of proof is on you, not the board. Just like in a criminal trial, the burden of proof is on those who bring the charge. You brought the charge, how about you offer something more tangible than "high quality" and "young." Good lord.

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, mrags said:

So you should be concerned with Ed Oliver at 9 as well because he has weaknesses?

 

 

Strengths
  • Elite athlete with high-end foot quickness, agility and fluidity
  • Built low and plays with leverage on his side
  • As twitchy and sudden as any interior lineman you will see
  • Freak-daddy workouts expected for quickness and explosion testing
  • Explodes into blockers with jarring pop for early advantages
  • Instinctive and early play diagnosis
  • Rare initial quickness to disrupt in gaps
  • Posted 53 tackles for loss in just three years
  • Direct, inside hands and plays under opponent's pads
  • Linebacker speed for extended range to tackle
  • Plays with consistent motor and overall hustle
  • Works to half-man in his rush
  • Tilts blocker with jab step before hitting slap-rip counter to opposite edge
  • Body control for efficient, edge to edge counters
  • Pairs spin counter with athletic ability to eat as secondary rusher
Weaknesses
  • Squatty, unimposing frame falls below NFL size norms inside
  • Scouts say he played under 280 pounds
  • Lacks functional length
  • Gets mauled by down blocks and double teams
  • Struggles at times when offenses run downhill at him
  • Gets clogged up against wide-bodies
  • Unable to sustain early jolts into extended power
  • Backdoors blocks in lateral pursuit rather than winning across the face
  • Forced to work excessively at disengaging from blocks
  • Failed to convert explosiveness into impressive sack totals
  • Rush attack is more predictable than diverse

 

I think we may have a misunderstanding. I was just saying I like the balanced approach. If you give only the pros, or the cons, it’s a false picture. I know the post  was a response to the question “why not”, so it kind of gives a pass to the negatives, but the full picture is what counts. Personally, I prefer Oliver, but I don’t get a vote and can’t control the draft. 

Edited by Augie

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15 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I think we may have a misunderstanding. I was just saying I like the balanced approach. If you give only the pros, or the cons, it’s a false picture. I know the post  was a response to the question “why not”, so it kind of gives a pass to the negatives, but the full picture is what counts. Personally, I prefer Oliver, but I don’t get a vote and can’t control the draft. 

My misunderstanding. 

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8 hours ago, zonabb said:

Burden of proof is on you, not the board. Just like in a criminal trial, the burden of proof is on those who bring the charge. You brought the charge, how about you offer something more tangible than "high quality" and "young." Good lord.

This isn’t a criminal case!!!

good lord is right. 

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12 hours ago, Rufridr101 said:

Dexter Lawrence is a better player he's 340 and ran as fast at the combine

 

Love Lawrence, would have no gripes with trading up into the end of the first round to snag him.

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Me too! It's absolutely one of the moves I would make and would easily make Star L. expendable sooner rather than later. Not that money is currently an issue just sayin.

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, TheBeaneBandit said:

Me too! It's absolutely one of the moves I would make and would easily make Star L. expendable sooner rather than later. Not that money is currently an issue just sayin.

 

Star isn’t going anywhere. He has no trade value and his contract makes it stupid to cut him.

Edited by Bangarang

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21 hours ago, Lurker said:
Weaknesses
  • Initial quickness gives way to fatigue as rep continues
  • Overall play strength can improve
  • Not enough extension/separation after initial punch
  • Thick lower half missing quality anchor
  • Struggles with contact balance on down blocks
  • Lacks length and power to excel in two-gap scheme
  • Folded and collapsed when facing powerful double teams
  • Can do a better job of defeating reach blocks against him
  • Offensive linemen with length can bother him
  • Lacks length to pry off blocks
  • Average strength in playing through redirect blocks in pass rush
  • Scheme dependent

This entire writeup of his weaknesses is dependent on the type of defense you run. Most of the defenses they're talking about with length and 2gap and strength won't matter because we don't play in a 34 or in a 2gap system. For the Bills he'd be an inside pass rusher. The only things that matter in this entire writeup are down blocks and reach blocks. The rest is irrelevant.

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38 minutes ago, CuddyDark said:

This entire writeup of his weaknesses is dependent on the type of defense you run. Most of the defenses they're talking about with length and 2gap and strength won't matter because we don't play in a 34 or in a 2gap system. For the Bills he'd be an inside pass rusher. The only things that matter in this entire writeup are down blocks and reach blocks. The rest is irrelevant.

 

A #9 DT has to be more than a one-trick pony.    IMO, he'd be a liability on the inside running game with his lack of strength/anchor.     

 

Shooting gaps looks great...unless it's the wrong gap and you get gashed up the middle, which has been a problem for this team for far too long.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Bangarang said:

 

Star isn’t going anywhere. He has no trade value and his contract makes it stupid to cut him.

 

 

True........the cap hit for cutting him is extraordinary right now...........but if he continues on the decline slope of last year then it would be important to have someone to force him off the active game day roster and actually impact the offensive backfield.  That would allow them to cut bait after this season.    If he gets any worse he's not worth the roster spot.   Hopefully he finds some of the Lorax juice but looked to me that he was semi-retired last year so I don't expect any change in course.   This isn't a 3-4......the IDL are expected to make *some* plays.   They save a little over $2M if they cut him after the 2019 season and now is the time to get your piping hot DT prospects..........not sure about next year.   Dexter Lawrence in round 2 would be a good fit.    Can play either DT spot, IMO.

Edited by BADOLBILZ
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2 hours ago, Rampage said:

 

Love Lawrence, would have no gripes with trading up into the end of the first round to snag him.

there's so many combinations of moves we can make. if oliver is gone, maybe we get sweat and then lawrence. if we trade down a bit, maybe they take clelin ferrell and then grab lawrence. i believe they are going to get both a dt and an edge....hopefully with the first 2 picks, but at least in the first 3.

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30 minutes ago, billsredneck1 said:

there's so many combinations of moves we can make. if oliver is gone, maybe we get sweat and then lawrence. if we trade down a bit, maybe they take clelin ferrell and then grab lawrence. i believe they are going to get both a dt and an edge....hopefully with the first 2 picks, but at least in the first 3.

I'm willing to go DT or Edge early, but I want one of the first two picks on the offensive side of the ledger. Developing Allen is priority number one and he still needs more weapons imo.

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2 hours ago, Bangarang said:

 

Star isn’t going anywhere. He has no trade value and his contract makes it stupid to cut him.

I was thinking after this year, If at all.

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1 hour ago, Lurker said:

 

A #9 DT has to be more than a one-trick pony.    IMO, he'd be a liability on the inside running game with his lack of strength/anchor.     

 

Shooting gaps looks great...unless it's the wrong gap and you get gashed up the middle, which has been a problem for this team for far too long.

He isn't a one trick pony. He can play with strength. That writeup is why they believe he can't play nose, in a 2 gap or at the 5 spot. It has nothing to do with him being a one gap 3.

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1 hour ago, TheBeaneBandit said:

I was thinking after this year, If at all.

 

I suppose it’s possible after this year I just wouldn’t expect it

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Very hard to get on board with a guy who will turn 24 in his rookie season. He's already close to his athletic downturn when his rookie deal expires 

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Why have we given up on Harrison Phillips? He looked promising. Star Lotulelei just got signed to mega bucks. Jordan Phillips looked good. Why do we need 4 quality DTs? Why? Why, Dear Lord? I can definitely go for a DE, not a DT. I'm sorry. I'm going to be ultra disappointed if we do. Oliver and Quinnen W. will be gone. Trade down for a WR or Hock.

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7 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

Why have we given up on Harrison Phillips? He looked promising. Star Lotulelei just got signed to mega bucks. Jordan Phillips looked good. Why do we need 4 quality DTs? Why? Why, Dear Lord? I can definitely go for a DE, not a DT. I'm sorry. I'm going to be ultra disappointed if we do. Oliver and Quinnen W. will be gone. Trade down for a WR or Hock.

Both Philips are second wave guys and Star is barely average, that's why.

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1 minute ago, TheBeaneBandit said:

Both Philips are second wave guys and Star is barely average, that's why.

Well, Harrison was graded as above average by PFF, which matches what I saw on tape. He's going to be very good. Star is also going to start, period. Jordan is a good rotational piece. By all means draft a guy, but not at 9. I'm all ears for a DE though. That'd be okay, I guess.... Give me OL, WR or Hock preferably. 

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