Josh Allen starts week 12 but shows no growth....

[Ayjent]

2 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said:

What good does it do to play Barkley more? Find out he is still a capable backup?

 

Allen can do things and make throws that Barkley simply cannot. He gives the best chance to win and its not close

 

Its not like Josh was an unmitigated disaster when he was playing. Rough at times, but brilliant at others. I didn't think he was a liability. He looked raw but with incredible talent. He starts every game he is healthy enough to play

Between Allen, Peterman and Anderson - yeah Allen was head and shoulders above the other two.  But you can't deny that Barkley had the best QB performance by a Bill this season and it's not even close.  I'm fine with them starting either Barkley or Allen.  I think Allen's pocket presence is still problematic.  He holds the ball too long and hasn't shown any consistency in moving in the pocket to make time for himself.  I don't know if that is something that will improve with presnap recognition, I'm hopeful that it does.  Everything else seems to be there, but that ability to make good quick decisions is what separates the superstars from the busters.

[Skins Malone]

13 minutes ago, NewEra said:

So you’d rather mess with josh Allen’s head?  Instead of Matt Barkley’s head?  Do you realize what you just said? This is ridiculous 

Flippant? Lol.  You’re statement is ridiculous. He was letting you know how ridiculous it was

Thank you!  Sometimes I wonder if people actually believe what they are saying.  And how they cannot see how ridiculous it is.

Edited November 14, 2018 by Skins Malone

[PittsforDave]

10 minutes ago, LABillzFan said:

 

First, putting in Barkley only delays Allen's development.  The kid needs to get reps to slow down the game. You have a chance to correct a lot of things between now and next year, and keeping him on the bench isn't going to help at this juncture because the season is essentially done. 

 

Second, referring to the coach as McDuffus indicates pretty clearly you're not going to be happy with whatever the coach does. Do you genuinely believe a guy who works his way up the ranks of the NFL to earn his spot as a HC, in a game that only has 32 such positions worldwide, is a dufus?

I like McDumbass, he has some issues, but with talent, could be an ok head coach. 

 

McClappy definitely has some improving to do on the offensive side of the ball. 

 

His decision making skills are questionable. His in game management is questionable. His evaluation of talent is irresponsible. 

 

He has a lot to improve. 

 

He needs to win. 

[1st Ammendment NoMas]

1 hour ago, Wayne Arnold said:

Was he supposed to “grow” while he was recovering from an elbow injury?

Absolutely. Allen even said that he learned a lot from watching Anderson and Barkley. Every person should be growing into their role everyday. If you are not learning, you are not living.

 

 

[RoyBatty is alive]

Starting Barkley one more game makes sense to me,  he does have a hot hand (supposedly) &  find out if he his play was a fluke versus a very bad Jet defense, if it was you have made the decision not to keep him as a backup next year

 

[LABILLBACKER]

I think they'll be some marginal improvement based on the way the offense came out last week. Peterman is gone so pick 6's should be rare. Zay is improving.  Teller looked good. McKenzie will help with field position.  I'm not expecting 300 yards and 3 TDs but Josh will show strides.

[RoyBatty is alive]

12 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said:

What good does it do to play Barkley more? Find out he is still a capable backup?

 

Allen can do things and make throws that Barkley simply cannot. He gives the best chance to win and its not close

 

Its not like Josh was an unmitigated disaster when he was playing. Rough at times, but brilliant at others. I didn't think he was a liability. He looked raw but with incredible talent. He starts every game he is healthy enough to play

 

 

Yes, exactly. We have seen how critical backup QBs can be this year.

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, RoyBatty is alive said:

Starting Barkley one more game makes sense to me,  he does have a hot hand (supposedly) &  find out if he his play was a fluke versus a very bad Jet defense, if it was you have made the decision not to keep him as a backup next year

 

Finding out whether you have a backup > experience for the future of the franchise at QB?  

[st pete gogolak]

They're going through something similar in Tampa Bay.  Winston was suspended, Fitzpatrick starts the season like a house on fire, cools off, Winston comes back, looks ok for a couple of games, has a horrid game at Cincinnati, gets benched, Fitz looks good to finish that game, cools down again, yet Fitz is announced as starter for this week's game.  Unless you're 100% convinced that you're done with a guy you drafted #1 overall a couple of years ago, it seems foolish to start a 35 year old journeyman who's a free agent at the end of the year.  Same thing here.  Bills aren't going anywhere this year.  Get Allen as much game time as possible. 

[PittsforDave]

3 minutes ago, Skins Malone said:

Thank you!  Sometimes I wonder if people actually believe what they are saying.  And how they cannot see how ridiculous it is.

Putting your best players out there to win is the opposite of ridiculous.

 

Sacrifcing the season for development, now that is absurd.  

 

Is giving up way too early a Buffalo thing, or a personal issue?

[Skins Malone]

Just now, LABILLBACKER said:

I think they'll be some marginal improvement based on the way the offense came out last week. Peterman is gone so pick 6's should be rare. Zay is improving.  Teller looked good. McKenzie will help with field position.  I'm not expecting 300 yards and 3 TDs but Josh will show strides.

Not to mention Foster.  That was a huge game for him.  Hope he builds on that.  For an undrafted rookie that was a hell of a performance.

[RoyBatty is alive]

Just now, LABILLBACKER said:

I think they'll be some marginal improvement based on the way the offense came out last week. Peterman is gone so pick 6's should be rare. Zay is improving.  Teller looked good. McKenzie will help with field position.  I'm not expecting 300 yards and 3 TDs but Josh will show strides.

All true.  I think there should be a lot of improvement.  He has had weeks of actual real season game preparation, been able to work with Derek Anderson, he might not be a great QB but has a lot of experience.

[CommonCents]

They already wasted a ton of snaps on McPizzaBoy and Peterman. If Allen is healthy he should be getting all the in game and practice reps. Otherwise this year will be wasted. Let the kid play, maybe the game will slow down for him by year’s end.

[swnybillsfan]

i think the whole "sit Allen and let him learn" ship sailed the moment he became the full time starter. you either sit him, let him learn, and ease him in...or you throw him in the deep end and see if he can swim. you cannot waffle back and forth on this. if he's healthy, he plays. 

[RoyBatty is alive]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Finding out whether you have a backup > experience for the future of the franchise at QB?  

Did I say or intimate that, no I did not so dont try a sophomoric attempt at twisting my words. I wrote on more game, there 6 games left, I highly doubt if Allen plays in 5 versus 6, is going to make a material difference in his development.

[Commish]

3 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Finding out whether you have a backup > experience for the future of the franchise at QB?  

On WGR, Greg Cosell says absolutely you start Allen - he had Barkley as a 4th rounder when he came out - not enough arm strength to be an NFL starter.

[26CornerBlitz]

2 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Did I say or intimate that, no I did not so dont try a sophomoric attempt at twisting my words. I wrote on more game, there 6 games left, I highly doubt if Allen plays in 5 versus 6, is going to make a material difference in his development.

 

Yes. Yes you did.   Sophomoric? That would be your TSW profile pic. 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz

[Skins Malone]

Just now, PittsforDave said:

Putting your best players out there to win is the opposite of ridiculous.

 

Sacrifcing the season for development, now that is absurd.  

 

Is giving up way too early a Buffalo thing, or a personal issue?

Dave just stop.  Your responses are unintelligent.  Who is giving up? Because we want to see what our 7th overall pick and future of the team can do...yeah that's giving up lol.  Barkley has been a career back up for a reason.  He had one good game.  And then you accuse the coach of messing with Barkley's head lol.  Give me a break man.  You just have an agenda against McD.  Grow up bro.

3 minutes ago, swnybillsfan said:

i think the whole "sit Allen and let him learn" ship sailed the moment he became the full time starter. you either sit him, let him learn, and ease him in...or you throw him in the deep end and see if he can swim. you cannot waffle back and forth on this. if he's healthy, he plays. 

This

[CommonCents]

4 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Did I say or intimate that, no I did not so dont try a sophomoric attempt at twisting my words. I wrote on more game, there 6 games left, I highly doubt if Allen plays in 5 versus 6, is going to make a material difference in his development.

That’s a fair point but don’t forget how many offseason reps Allen missed because of the 3 ring circus McD was running at QB. Even with playing a few games it’s not hard to imagine that Allen has the least amount of reps of any of the 1st round QBs.

 

If they hadn’t butchered the position so bad they would have a little more flexibility. Coach and GM need him to develop, they might not survive another season like this in 19’

Edited November 14, 2018 by Commonsense

[RoyBatty is alive]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Yes. Yes you did.   Sophomoric? That would be your TSW profile pic. 

 

 

I did huh, LOL.  You have some serious reading comprehension problems, either that or a hallucinogenic imagination , or most likely you just are painfully not very smart.

 

And yes, I am quite proud of my profile pic, thanks for the mention!

1 minute ago, Commonsense said:

That’s a fair point but don’t forget how many offseason reps Allen missed because of the 3 ring circus McD was running at QB. Even with playing a few games it’s not hard to imagine that Allen has the least amount of reps of any of the 1st round QBs.

 

If they hadn’t butchered the position so bad they would have a little more flexibility. Coach and GM need him to develop, they might not survive another season like this in 19’

Your comments are accurate.  I think all their plans feel apart with the demise of AJM, imagine that  Peterman actually beat him out in pre-season.

[26CornerBlitz]

4 minutes ago, Roch-A-Bill said:

On WGR, Greg Cosell says absolutely you start Allen - he had Barkley as a 4th rounder when he came out - not enough arm strength to be an NFL starter.

 

He's right. You use every available game snap with Allen as the QB because he needs the experience.  We already know what Barkley is and is not as a decent fill in guy.

[LABILLBACKER]

10 minutes ago, Skins Malone said:

Not to mention Foster.  That was a huge game for him.  Hope he builds on that.  For an undrafted rookie that was a hell of a performance.

Foster too. Glad to see him return with confidence and better hands. This team is quietly building a nice young nucleus. 

[transplantbillsfan]

Absolutely not!!!

 

One friggin game and you do something stupid like bench him?

 

No, once Allen is inserted, he will be allowed the rest of the season to play and won't be benched for any reason other than injury.

 

However, I'm still not sure Allen even plays week 12 against the Jags.  McDermott said Allen will start against Jacksonvill "if healthy."  That "if healthy" part is key.

 

Barkley could very well still start in a week and a half.  And if he plays the way he did the last game, I could see Allen's injury and health continually being cited as the reason Barkley continues to start.

 

But no, once Allen plays, he's the starter.

[billsfan1959]

I love that many of the same people who screamed that Peterman (of whom I have never been a fan) had his opportunities and clearly showed he was not a starting NFL QB, now want to give Matt Barkley a chance to see what he can do, based on one game - while ignoring his previous 6 NFL starts (1-6) and 7 total games played (1-7) where he threw at least 2 interceptions in 5 of those 7 games (and 5 interceptions in one game). He played a good game last week; however, it was an aberration based on his history and even in that game he had at least two passes that clearly should have been intercepted. I think Barkley is head and shoulders above Peterman and is a good backup. However, the remainder of this season is about seeing if Allen can show real development and give some indication that he can be a long term solution at QB.

[Mrbojanglezs]

This has got to stop.

[Alphadawg7]

2 hours ago, Rebel101 said:

I believe you go with the hot hand and start Barkley. I think he earned himself one more start. I understand Allen is the future but they originally wanted him to sit anyway. But what if he does start and looks the same or worse then he did before injury? He was making some better throws in the Texans game. He didn’t play great but he looked alittle better so what if after sitting and learning from Anderson and all that he doesn’t look any different then what he did before the injury? Do we start to worry? I mean the main reason Josh Allen was even considered such a high pick was because of Carson Wentz and their numbers are no where near the same

 

Why would anyone care about whether or not Barkley may or may not give us a slightly better win chance?  All we are doing is slowing Allen’s growth, and even if Barkley won a game or two more, we would also be hurting our draft slot and ability to get more help for Josh next year too.

 

Personally, I believe Josh should be the starter anyway being he has more talent and upside, but even more so because we need to get him as much experience as possible going into next year.  I don’t care if he makes mistakes, this is the year to make them so he can eventually learn and grow from them.

[Captain Hindsight]

1 hour ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 

 

Yes, exactly. We have seen how critical backup QBs can be this year.

Maybe we should work on finding a starter first ?

[RoyBatty is alive]

1 minute ago, Captain Hindsight said:

Maybe we should work on finding a starter first ?

Who said or intimated we aren't, the two aren't mutually exclusive.

 

If and this is a big if the Bills really want to win this year then maybe Barkely should be our starter, Allen has looked awfully shaky his last three games.

[jrober38]

2 hours ago, Soda Popinski said:

how does he show no growth?   Are we talking a 3 point 150 total yard performance by the offense where he doesn't throw for 100yds?    I'll be surprised if that happens.  

 

If it does, I think I still go with Allen.  He's not going to develop on the bench.  

 

The Jags have the best pass D Allen will face all year. 

[billsfan1959]

4 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

The Jags have the best pass D Allen will face all year. 

Then it will be a good experience for him

[Gugny]

2 hours ago, teef said:

Why do people assume that Allen will coming in after being hurt and set the world on fire?  He’s probably going to be pretty similar to who he was until he gets some snaps under his belt. I also don’t get why Barkley has earned anything. He played a solid game. He’s lucky to be here. That’s it. 

 

This is where my confusion is, too.  Since when do backup QBs earn starting jobs after playing one game in place of the injured starting QB?  More importantly, that game was against an opponent that didn't even try to compete.

[jrober38]

1 minute ago, Gugny said:

 

This is where my confusion is, too.  Since when do backup QBs earn starting jobs after playing one game in place of the injured starting QB?  More importantly, that game was against an opponent that didn't even try to compete.

 

When the injured starting QB is the worst starting QB in the NFL. 

Edited November 14, 2018 by jrober38

[Gugny]

Just now, jrober38 said:

 

When the injured starting QB is the worst starting QB in the NFL. 

 

This is statistically, logically and realistically untrue.

[BigBuff423]

6 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

The Jags have the best pass D Allen will face all year. 

 

Which will be good for him if he plays. Big Boys don't get to be Big Boys if they're constantly coddled. It may be ugly and rough, but he needs to see what a really good Defense looks like, how fast they are, how they anticipate, how they are relentless and how they scheme. These are only things he can learn by doing. So IMHO, the better the Defenses look, the more he should be ready to elevate his game which only advances his development. 

[billsfan1959]

1 minute ago, Gugny said:

 

This is statistically, logically and realistically untrue.

Shhhh…. That will just make him angry

[jrober38]

7 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

This is statistically, logically and realistically untrue.

 

Name a worse starting QB this year. 

 

Allen is 32nd in QB Rating, 32nd in Total QBR, 32nd in pass yards per game and the Bills have the worst scoring offense in the league. 

Edited November 14, 2018 by jrober38

[JoPar_v2]

1 hour ago, PittsforDave said:

I like McDumbass, he has some issues, but with talent, could be an ok head coach. 

 

McClappy definitely has some improving to do on the offensive side of the ball. 

 

His decision making skills are questionable. His in game management is questionable. His evaluation of talent is irresponsible. 

 

He has a lot to improve. 

 

He needs to win. 

Only around for a couple weeks and already you have an impressive array of stupid nicknames for the head coach. Bravo. Did you think of them yourself or did you brainstorm them with your fellow geniuses?

[Ayjent]

3 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

The Jags have the best pass D Allen will face all year. 

 

Just now, billsfan1959 said:

Then it will be a good experience for him

 

That depends on how it goes.  He's had plenty of "learning experiences" already.  If he stinks it up he really might need to ride the pine for a little while.  It would be nice to see him have a game where he flashes a lot of consistent good play, because those have been few and far between.  Now that another QB has come in to show that it is possible, I think it mounts some extra pressure on the rookie to perform - which I'm all for because that the more important "learning experience" than facing a good D.  Responding to pressure is what makes you great or wilt. 

 

On the other hand, how much patience is the rest of the team going to have with Allen if they have a QB on the bench that got the Offense going, and the Offense is going nowhere under Allen?  It's a tricky dynamic for a head coach, who certainly is trying to win as many games as possible and have the team playing its best at all times.  No good coach wants his team to go lay eggs for draft position.  They want these guys to get better every game, and if you are going to stifle everyone else at the expense of the QB that may backfire in the locker room.  Sure you've got to know what you have at QB, it's the most important position, but if you aren't getting good QB play, its not going to be easy to assess the rest of your offense and what needs to improve.  Maybe the OL isn't that bad, maybe it is - maybe the receivers are bad, maybe they aren't (outside of KB - who is playing himself into a vet minimum contract this offseason). 

 

I think its a hard spot to put the rookie in, but a necessary one.  The best thing he can do is come out and have his best game.

[Gugny]

13 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Name a worse starting QB this year. 

 

Allen is 32nd in QB Rating, 32nd in Total QBR, 32nd in pass yards per game and the Bills have the worst scoring offense in the league. 

 

He hasn't played for 50% of the season.  Keep cherry picking stats to fit your narrative.  And if you think Josh Allen is the sole - even the primary - reason that the Bills offense is so anemic, then you've not been watching the games.

[teef]

47 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

This is where my confusion is, too.  Since when do backup QBs earn starting jobs after playing one game in place of the injured starting QB?  More importantly, that game was against an opponent that didn't even try to compete.

i have no idea.  i just don't like the idea of barkley starting because he has, "earned it".   it's nice to have him here, but that's it.  allen may be the future, so we need to figure that ***** out.

44 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

This is statistically, logically and realistically untrue.

i do appreciate jrober, but he has the amazing ability to make every thread at least 15% more depressing.  it's kind of this thing.

Edited November 14, 2018 by teef