Peterman Pick after early hit on Zay Jones?

[Real McClappy]

I have looked at this play several times and understand the rule as to why it's not a PI on a rub route that needs to be 1 yard past the LOS to be "true" PI. This is damn near close to 1 yard past the sticks and debatable but whatever. 

 

What I don't understand is if the league is truly trying to protect it's players how the hell is this still not called for hit on a defenseless WR or helmet to helmet foul? At the 3 second mark Zay gets destroyed from behind while the ball is in the air 2.5 yards away from him. 

 

 

Edited November 6, 2018 by Real McCoy

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[Tenhigh]

looks like he used his shoulder, not helmet, when he hit him in the back.  

[Billsfan1972]

Looks bang bang to me in any case.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

56 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

I have looked at this play several times and understand the rule as to why it's not a PI on a rub route that needs to be 1 yard past the LOS to be "true" PI. This is damn near close to 1 yard past the sticks and debatable but whatever. 

 

What I don't understand is if the league is truly trying to protect it's players how the hell is this still not called for hit on a defenseless WR or helmet to helmet foul? At the 3 second mark Zay gets destroyed from behind while the ball is in the air 2.5 yards away from him. 

 

 

I was screaming PI by the defense.  He hit him too early.  

 

36 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Looks bang bang to me in any case.

it maybe. but that doesn't nullify the early hit. 

 

All turnovers must be reviewed by the NFL.  

 

[Troll Toll]

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing when I was watching it. Is a receiver not defenseless within one yard?

[Real McClappy]

40 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Looks bang bang to me in any case.

I see the hit 2-3 yards away from Zay, not bang bang.

[SoCal Deek]

The NFL is interesting. Every year we see a call that just doesn’t seem right. This is one of them. I don’t believe the rules committee intended this particular rule to be applied as it was on this play and I’m hoping that the Bills bring it up if and when they have the chance. This is clearly pass interference. It wasn’t a rub route or a pick play. The frozen picture shows that the two players were nowhere near any other players so the fact that it was within a yard of the scrimmage line should be ruled irrelevant.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

32 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

I see the hit 2-3 yards away from Zay, not bang bang.

you highlighted the ball also look at the shadow.  2 full yards away at the hit.  

[fergie's ire]

29 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

I see the hit 2-3 yards away from Zay, not bang bang.

The point is that it doesn't matter.  He could have tackled him with the ball five yards away and it would not have been interference.  In fact, there is nothing the defender could have done to make it pass interference because pass interference does not exist within a yard of the line of scrimmage.  If the defender did tackle him, it could be called holding...but not PI.  It could have been called a defenseless receiver, but I think that the point of the rule is that someone who catches it within a yard of the line of scrimmage is like a runner...and should expect contact....and therefore, not defenseless.  If he IS defenseless, it is because of a stupid decision by the quarterback to essentially throw a screen when the screen is covered.

[Success]

Side note, but I hate that the national narrative is that this was another multi pick game for Peterman.

 

Seriously, how does he prevent this one, or the one where Pryor scoops it right into the defender’s hands?

[SoCal Deek]

5 minutes ago, fergie's ire said:

The point is that it doesn't matter.  He could have tackled him with the ball five yards away and it would not have been interference.  In fact, there is nothing the defender could have done to make it pass interference because pass interference does not exist within a yard of the line of scrimmage.  If the defender did tackle him, it could be called holding...but not PI.  It could have been called a defenseless receiver, but I think that the point of the rule is that someone who catches it within a yard of the line of scrimmage is like a runner...and should expect contact....and therefore, not defenseless.  If he IS defenseless, it is because of a stupid decision by the quarterback to essentially throw a screen when the screen is covered.

All true. But...I still say this particular play is not the condition that the rule is intended for and I hope they tweak it. 

[Kirby Jackson]

It’s always a good idea to run a 1 yard hitch on 3rd and 3. 

[Talonz]

I don't know..Even with an explanation it still makes no sense to me...

 

If it was a fumble, sure, but I don't recall ever seeing a defender being able to legally steamroll a receiver while the ball is in the air.   

[26CornerBlitz]

It's a 100% legal play by the defense as already discussed in the other thread on this subject. 

 

 

[Billsfan1972]

Third & 3 and he throws it within 1 yard of the LOS and no chance for the first down if caught.....  That was a pathetic call, read, throw and decsion.

 

Yep, maybe the ref was just too lazy to throw the flag, because why bother.

[Wayne Arnold]

50 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

I see the hit 2-3 yards away from Zay, not bang bang.

 

The ball was also tipped at the line. So the pass could have been 20 yards down the field and it still wouldn’t have been pass interference.

 

We’re all missing the point though - which is that God obviously hates Nathan Peterman.

 

The ball is tipped up in the air by Zay’s forearm...just high enough for a roaming defender with a free lane to the end zone to easily pluck it and run in for the Pick 6 untouched.

 

As bad as Peterman may be, it is truly mind-boggling how snakebit he is.

[SoCal Deek]

8 minutes ago, Talonz said:

I don't know..Even with an explanation it still makes no sense to me...

 

If it was a fumble, sure, but I don't recall ever seeing a defender being able to legally steamroll a receiver while the ball is in the air.   

Agree. As I’ve said this is NOT the intent of this rule and it needs to be tweaked. I guarantee the defender doesn’t know the rule. He was simply trying to jump the route against a pathetic quarterback and got there too early.  

[CircleTheWagons99]

i love the defenders of the NFL when things like this happen. How about the no call when peterman got slapped in the head?  Defend your pos NfL on that, Or the MANY times our Dline men get held. Love how the refs “miss” all that but were able to determine where the player was in the blink of an eye. OK. As some like to say about the Bills, keep drinking the NFL’s koolaid. 

[Wayne Arnold]

4 minutes ago, CircleTheWagons99 said:

i love the defenders of the NFL when things like this happen. How about the no call when peterman got slapped in the head?  Defend your pos NfL on that, Or the MANY times our Dline men get held. Love how the refs “miss” all that but were able to determine where the player was in the blink of an eye. OK. As some like to say about the Bills, keep drinking the NFL’s koolaid. 

 

Peterman got hit in the head twice. Both no calls. I’ve never seen that not called in the NFL. And it happened twice.

 

Snakebit.

[26CornerBlitz]

19 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

The ball was also tipped at the line. So the pass could have been 20 yards down the field and it still wouldn’t have been pass interference.

 

We’re all missing the point though - which is that God obviously hates Nathan Peterman.

 

The ball is tipped up in the air by Zay’s forearm...just high enough for a roaming defender with a free lane to the end zone to easily pluck it and run in for the Pick 6 untouched.

 

As bad as Peterman may be, it is truly mind-boggling how snakebit he is.

 

It was not.

[Nuncha]

Pass shouldn't have been thrown to Zay as the defender was right on him....and why the hell are they running a 1 yard route on 3rd and 3 in the first place?

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

40 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

The ball was also tipped at the line. So the pass could have been 20 yards down the field and it still wouldn’t have been pass interference.

 

We’re all missing the point though - which is that God obviously hates Nathan Peterman.

 

The ball is tipped up in the air by Zay’s forearm...just high enough for a roaming defender with a free lane to the end zone to easily pluck it and run in for the Pick 6 untouched.

 

As bad as Peterman may be, it is truly mind-boggling how snakebit he is.

I watched the replay when they said it was tipped.  I didn't see that.  

[Wayne Arnold]

21 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

It was not.

 

1. That’s what the refs told McDermott

2. Looked like it on the replay

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

As to the 5 yard rule,

 

pushing and holding as you run with a player is one thing, but a blindside hit is another imo. 

 

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, Wayne Arnold said:

 

1. That’s what the refs told McDermott

2. Looked like it on the replay

 

 

No the refs told him that the contact occurred within 1 yard of the LoS and therefore no PI. 

49 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

It's a 100% legal play by the defense as already discussed in the other thread on this subject. 

 

 

 

[Wayne Arnold]

7 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

 

No the refs told him that the contact occurred within 1 yard of the LoS and therefore no PI. 

 

 

Youre right. I misheard him on my way home from the game. Thanks.

[Boatdrinks]

1 hour ago, Success said:

Side note, but I hate that the national narrative is that this was another multi pick game for Peterman.

 

Seriously, how does he prevent this one, or the one where Pryor scoops it right into the defender’s hands?

Don’t throw it. It’s  just a stupid play, and an NFL QB should go elsewhere with the ball. Peterman is shook, plain and simple. He plays scared and isn’t an NFL caliber player. 

[NWPABillsfan]

I know the rule, don"t agree with it but I know it. Why throw a 1 yard pass when we needed 3 yards for a first down, But what kicks my butt the most is look at the stills why are the lineman 4 yards pushed back into Peterman face. What ever happen to holding the line of scrimmage.

[Real McClappy]

21 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

 

No the refs told him that the contact occurred within 1 yard of the LoS and therefore no PI. 

 

This is understood and not what I'm trying to get at here in this thread. 

 

What about a PF for defenseless WR in a league that is supposed to be trying to protect it's players? We can talk about it being a bad play call all day by Daboll being short of the sticks but that doesn't change the fact that Zay was blown up from behind that lead to a pick 6. 

 

If this is acceptable, defensive cord strategy and DB coverage in the NFL should change all together to take advantage of it? Just knock the piss out of WR's and TE's at the LOS all game. 

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, Real McCoy said:

This is understood and not what I'm trying to get at here in this thread. 

 

What about a PF for defenseless WR in a league that is supposed to be trying to protect it's players? We can talk about it being a bad play call all day by Daboll being short of the sticks but that doesn't change the fact that Zay was blown up from behind that lead to a pick 6. 

 

If this is acceptable, defensive cord strategy and DB coverage in the NFL should change all together to take advantage of it? Just knock the piss out of WR's and TE's at the LOS all game. 

 

The DB drove on the ball to make a play. 100% legal with no contact to the head. 

[Jay_Fixit]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

It’s always a good idea to run a 1 yard hitch on 3rd and 3. 

And the sad part is Chicago was ready for it.

 

 

[Talonz]

2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

The DB drove on the ball to make a play. 100% legal with no contact to the head. 

 

I still don't understand.  If it wasn't tipped or fumbled how can a defender be allowed to plow over a WR while the ball is in the air.   It doesn't make sense...Sorry..

 

[26CornerBlitz]

10 minutes ago, Talonz said:

 

I still don't understand.  If it wasn't tipped or fumbled how can a defender be allowed to plow over a WR while the ball is in the air.   It doesn't make sense...Sorry..

 

 

It's no different than a WR rubbing out or picking off a DB within the same area.  It's all fair game under the rules.

Edited November 6, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz

[Not at the table Karlos]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

The NFL is interesting. Every year we see a call that just doesn’t seem right. This is one of them. I don’t believe the rules committee intended this particular rule to be applied as it was on this play and I’m hoping that the Bills bring it up if and when they have the chance. This is clearly pass interference. It wasn’t a rub route or a pick play. The frozen picture shows that the two players were nowhere near any other players so the fact that it was within a yard of the scrimmage line should be ruled irrelevant.

Watch the entire play. They did run a pick play that's why he was a yard from the los, it just didn't work very well and the corner read it like a book. Also ball was tipped. The call was fine and I complain about the refs more than anyone. 

Edited November 6, 2018 by Not at the table Karlos

[26CornerBlitz]

6 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Watch the entire play. They did run a pick play that's why he was a yard from the los, it just didn't work very well and the corner read it like a book. Also ball was tipped. The call was fine and I complain about the refs more than anyone. 

 

It was not tipped and wasn't part of the consideration made by the officials on the field or in the official NFL explanation video. 

[thebandit27]

2 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

I was screaming PI by the defense.  He hit him too early.  

 

it maybe. but that doesn't nullify the early hit. 

 

All turnovers must be reviewed by the NFL.  

 

 

No offense, but it doesn't matter 

 

No action within 1 yard of the LOS (or behind it) will be considered either defensive holding or PI

[Shaw66]

6 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

This is understood and not what I'm trying to get at here in this thread. 

 

What about a PF for defenseless WR in a league that is supposed to be trying to protect it's players? We can talk about it being a bad play call all day by Daboll being short of the sticks but that doesn't change the fact that Zay was blown up from behind that lead to a pick 6. 

 

If this is acceptable, defensive cord strategy and DB coverage in the NFL should change all together to take advantage of it? Just knock the piss out of WR's and TE's at the LOS all game. 

I think you're technically correct but practically wrong.

 

If that play happens downfield, and if the hit occurs at the instant the ball arrives at Zay's hands, they call a personal foul for the hit above the head on a defenseless receiver.   I don't know, but I think that rule applies all over the field - there's no exception within a yard of the line of scrimmage.   It's a player safety rule, so I expect it applies all over the field.  So I'd guess that, technically, they missed the call.  Looking at the replays and the stills, it's kind of surprising that Jones didn't get a concussion on that play.  

 

But as a practical matter, I think you're not going to see that called.  The Bills were trying to pick the defender, but the Bears played it perfectly and avoided the pick.  The pick would have been legal, because the offensive guy setting the pick also was within a yard of the line of scrimmage.  The result of the rules and how those pick plays work is that there's a lot of contact within that one-yard zone, and I think as a practical matter, the officials have come to view it as something of a no-man's land as far as contact goes.  They're going to call an intentional punch, they're going to call a face mask, and they're going to call a horse collar, but they aren't going to call penalties that just involve contact.  I've never heard anyone say that, and I don't think there's a rule about it, I just think that's what was going on on that play.

 

I was in the broadcast booth with Nantz and SIms in New York when the Bills with Fitz and Stevie lost to the Giants.  On third and five the Bills faked to Freddie, who ran through the line and turned for about a four-yard pass.  Some defender tackled him clearly before the ball arrived.  No PI call.   The Bills punted, they went to commercial, Nantz turned to Sims and asked "Wasn't that pass interference?"  Sims said "they don't call it on running backs."   Just like that.  Sims admitted that by the rule, it was PI, but the by understanding of everyone it doesn't get called.  Now, I think what he really meant is if you fake a handoff to your running back, it's fair game to tackle him, without the ball, anytime within about 10 yards after the fake, but still it was an obvious PI.  No interference, Freddie catches it and has a first down.   Or call the penalty and the Bills have a first down.   The point is, that are penalties that by custom and practice aren't called.  The hit to Zay's head in that situation is one of them. 

[Not at the table Karlos]

14 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

It was not tipped and wasn't part of the consideration made by the officials on the field or in the official NFL explanation video. 

Yes it was. The ball hit the line man's hand. They showed a close up of it. Didn't change the flight of the ball much but it Def hit the hand 

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Yes it was. The ball hit the line man's hand. They showed a close up of it. Didn't change the flight of the ball much but it Def hit the hand 

 

You can claim that all you'd like.  I watched it over again. A tipped ball would have negated all of the talk about contact within 1 yard of the LoS. The officials never discussed a tipped pass because it wasn't.