Gugny Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 5 minutes ago, 4_kidd_4 said: Ha! Pay to play indeed. I chuckle at some of these “rah rah” locker room speeches because you know there’s at least a handful of guys rolling their eyes in there. Didn’t someone on the Steelers film themself basically doing just that during a Tomlinson rahrah session? I think it was Antonio Brown, actually! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkeerie Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 1 minute ago, 4_kidd_4 said: Ha! Pay to play indeed. I chuckle at some of these “rah rah” locker room speeches because you know there’s at least a handful of guys rolling their eyes in there. Didn’t someone on the Steelers film themself basically doing just that during a Tomlinson rahrah session? That's because the Steelers are losing. As much talent as they have, they are now losing. They are not playing as a team. When teams start losing despite the talent, the "business" end kicks in a lot quicker and players are not re-signed, leading to more dissatisfaction. It's a vicious and flawed cycle. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 2 minutes ago, jkeerie said: That's because the Steelers are losing. As much talent as they have, they are now losing. They are not playing as a team. When teams start losing despite the talent, the "business" end kicks in a lot quicker and players are not re-signed, leading to more dissatisfaction. It's a vicious and flawed cycle. This was done last year .... after a playoff win. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 12 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Gregg Williams is a piece of crap and a miserable human being. SM seems like a genuine and nice guy. If anything, he is young Dick Jauron. We have essentially played Jauronball the last 2 years. We “overachieved” because of the lack of talent they helped provided. Last year was the greatest version of Jauronball ever besides Jauron’s 13-3 year. I have absolutely no idea how anyone can make a comparison between the two McD.....commands respect and his players play for him Gregg Williiams.....I bet there are players on his own team that would love the kick the **** out of him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsPride12 Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 1 minute ago, jkeerie said: That's because the Steelers are losing. As much talent as they have, they are now losing. They are not playing as a team. When teams start losing despite the talent, the "business" end kicks in a lot quicker and players are not re-signed, leading to more dissatisfaction. It's a vicious and flawed cycle. The Steelers are the perfect example why Culture does matter. That team is like a freaking Soap Opera right now. Talent is still the most important piece but you can have talent and still not have the winning recipe which is what's going on with the Steelers right now. You need to have talent and culture. It's not a one or the other argument. What people don't realize is McDermott is not gonna throw his guys under the bus in press conferences by saying "We don't have any talent on this team" but he and Beane know they have alot of work to do with the personnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 3, 2018 Author Share Posted October 3, 2018 Meanwhile, elsewhere in the NFL..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 9 minutes ago, jkeerie said: The team that McDermott refers to though is not the Bills "business." It's playing for each other. It's 53 individuals collectively playing for one goal. Coaches coach the players they are given. They recognize the business aspect of it...thus turnover...but move forward irrespective of it since most times they have little control over the business side of things. It's McDermott's culture. Every team and coach says these words.......................McDermott takes it as gospel. And I used that word purposely. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinii Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 2 minutes ago, nucci said: The difference is McCoy got the big money contract extension and Thomas did not Which he already has most of, right? Some RB needy team would probably gladly take a used Shady for 6 million a year. And he has to be looking around and wondering if the Bills dumped all those other younger talented players, when is my time up here? At this point in his career he probably wants a ring. Injuries tend to ruin earning potential is my point but more importantly for McCoy is that an injury would make a ring virtually non-existent. Something he realistically won’t see due to age and the length of time it will take for the process to evolve in Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 2 minutes ago, BillsPride12 said: The Steelers are the perfect example why Culture does matter. That team is like a freaking Soap Opera right now. Talent is still the most important piece but you can have talent and still not have the winning recipe which is what's going on with the Steelers right now. You need to have talent and culture. It's not a one or the other argument. What people don't realize is McDermott is not gonna throw his guys under the bus in press conferences by saying "We don't have any talent on this team" but he and Beane know they have alot of work to do with the personnel. How do you explain the Steelers winning the previous 4 seasons with pretty much the same culture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 56 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: See, this is kind of where I am. Culture is important - do people want to be there? Do they consistently put in their best effort to prepare, execute, evaluate, and improve? Are they team first, and not memememe? But I think it's hard - maybe impossible - to build a great culture if you don't have a sound strategy and have people believe in that strategy. I think a lot of people in this thread are confusing strategy and tactics, which with I sympathize because it's always been a point I get mixed. Are the Patriots a culture or a strategy? Can an element of strategy be to have a strong culture? Perhaps even being culture first? The way through terms are used lends me to believe that people have differing definitions of each, at least within this context. Is showing up to work on time a culture of strategy type of thing? What good is a strategy if the workers won't implement it? Bottom line, the twitter dolts are just trying to stir a pot of ignorance with their fans, and this is a HUGE NOTHING BURGER! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Just now, iinii said: Which he already has most of, right? Some RB needy team would probably gladly take a used Shady for 6 million a year. And he has to be looking around and wondering if the Bills dumped all those other younger talented players, when is my time up here? At this point in his career he probably wants a ring. Injuries tend to ruin earning potential is my point but more importantly for McCoy is that an injury would make a ring virtually non-existent. Something he realistically won’t see due to age and the length of time it will take for the process to evolve in Buffalo. I still dont think Shady has slowed down....I think it that this OL is so bad that he literally has no room to operate..... The OL might get better as the season goes on and they play together more....but right now they are opening NO running lanes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklabel Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 2 hours ago, Philo Beddoe said: I don't believe he is saying strategy isn't important, just that a good culture - a WINNING culture - can overcome strategy flaws or personnel differences within a game. Take a look at the Pats*...plug in player X, Y, Z who may not be the most talented and they still roll along because they have had a sustained system and winning culture. That's where McDermott wants the Bills to be, IMO. I definitely agree with this. Sometimes during games I'll get sucked into the Twitter-verse and see a lot of live tweeting, and over the last few seasons, one of the most common things I've seen mentioned by former players (and at times, those players' wives) would be that they'd look at the sideline and see no sense of brotherhood or unity with the Bills. And these former players were guys like Talley, Bennett, Kelly, Thomas, etc. They all have said at one point or another, one of the reasons they were so successful in the 90s was because, despite the egos, those guys really had a strong sense of family and unity. They all wanted to ball out for each other, not just for themselves. That's what McDermott is trying to build here. And we've seen already that it works. Last years team wasn't the most talented but they really enjoyed playing for each other. Just seeing that sideline erupt for Taiwan Jones, a career special teams and back up guy, playing in a regular season game against an NFC opponent in Week 5 was just awesome. These guys genuinely wanna see each other do well. And those are the kinds of players they'll continue to bring in here because, in their opinion, that's what's going to get them over the hump. Now, the one concern I've had since the jump with this regime is I would hope that they don't pass up on an extremely talented player because of character concerns. I'm sure they have a threshold for what they're comfortable with, what kinda baggage they'll allow players to bring with them, but I get the sense that their threshold for that is pretty low. On the flip-side of this, if they have a strong locker room with dependable leaders, then they should feel more comfortable bringing in a guy who may have some character issues because they can lean on those players in leadership roles to take a young guy under their wing and really show him how to be a professional. So, yeah, I sincerely hope they don't talk themselves out of taking a really talented guy (if they have the chance at one) because they're afraid his baggage will mess with the locker room vibe. Have faith in your guys and your culture and if, after a season or two, the guy in question hasn't turned it around, they can trade him elsewhere. They have no problem doing that (see: Watkins/Darby/Dareus). But yeah, I like where you're coming from here Phillo, good assessment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Chandler's Hands Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 1 hour ago, stony said: Do you think this would apply to the NFL where many regimes only get 3 years or less? If the regime lasts 3 years or less then they failed anyway, due to some combination of factors. If you are aiming for long term success I think it applies. A recent article in Sports Illustrated on the Seahawks was illuminating. The premise of the article was that they built a very strong culture (based on competition and accountability) that had success and was primed for continued success, but they deviated from it and corrupted it, at least in part leading to their downfall. But yeah, for the three ring circus we're used to in Buffalo it's a foreign concept for sure. Have to go back to the Levy/Polian era for a strong winning culture that lasted many years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsPride12 Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Just now, nucci said: How do you explain the Steelers winning the previous 4 seasons with pretty much the same culture? I follow some Pittsburgh Sports Reporters on Twitter and have been following this situation for the last few years. The Steelers have been underachieving for awhile and alot of things have been building up for the last couple years which has led to them imploding this season. They have enough talent to win a Super Bowl but they have a ton of divas in the locker room and a lot of guys have friction with each other. Steelers fans hate this current team and I've heard alot of comments saying for many of them they have never cared less about the Steelers before. Do some research and you will see. It hasn't been pretty over there regardless of their winning record the last few seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanForever19 Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 (edited) I can't wait until the offseason when we have a Billion dollars to spend and sign no difference makers. There's a finite amount of Free Agents that will actually sign with us to begin with. And from that pool, McBeane will only sign the one's that fit their culture. Valuing character over talent. It's feeling more and more like the Dick Jauron era every day. Edited October 3, 2018 by BillsFanForever19 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinii Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 1 minute ago, John from Riverside said: I still dont think Shady has slowed down....I think it that this OL is so bad that he literally has no room to operate..... The OL might get better as the season goes on and they play together more....but right now they are opening NO running lanes I am not trying to debate McCoy’s talent just his mindset. He still has wheels IS my point and would prefer to ride off into on winning sunset rather than keep the seat warm in a rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkeerie Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 7 minutes ago, CountDorkula said: 1st bold he said "once our attitude changes the run game will improve" - which is entirely false. 2nd bold This makes zero sense. in that case every team in the NFL is young because players and coordinators are constantly changing. Find me a team that doesn't do this. I do agree with your first point. If this is what McDermott said, I can't say I understand why he said it. The Bills...these coaches and players have experienced wholesale change over the past two years. Thus they are "younger." McDermott has only been a head coach for two years. Granted you could argue the same about McVay...but he inherited a core group that was severely mismanaged by the previous regime. The key is ALL 53 must be on the same page. Yes...every team is shooting for the same goal. All it takes is for one player to mess up...play stupidly (penalties and the like) to make the difference in winning and losing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 5 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: I have absolutely no idea how anyone can make a comparison between the two McD.....commands respect and his players play for him Gregg Williiams.....I bet there are players on his own team that would love the kick the **** out of him How many of the players who stood by and watched Tre White laying motionless on the ground after Gronk decked him last year, are still on the team? How about the guys who watched Tyrod get his bell rung against Jacksonville? Those players who said/did nothing to the opposing team? Allen gets tossed around like a rag doll and thrown to the ground. What do you see his teammates doing? (answer: throwing an air flag and walking away) These guys are not playing for McDermott. They are not playing for each other. They are playing for the paycheck. Period. This culture thing, I'm afraid, is an antiquated approach. Just get some !@#$ing talent on the team (including an OC, O line coach and WR coach) and win some !@#$ing games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par73 Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 You want to build a winning culture, right? The buzzwords are getting tiresome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 It’s clear that McD doesn’t like saying quotable material so he will regret this one, even though it’s being taken out of context. He was obviously trying to point towards the culture change and roster turn over being well underway. People saying he wants culture over talent are just sounding off for the sake of hearing themelseves speak. The most talented players on the roster were some of the most disinterested in the team first culture so they had to go. It is indeed a process. If they hit on Allen and Edmunds that should buy them enough time to see it through. Attitude fixing the running game? Another melt down from the melt down crew? He is most likely alluding to the frustration the Oline and backs have, have you not seen them yelling at eachother on Sundays? I’m sure that room is tense and some of those guys aren’t here long term and the coach knows that. Keep two feet on the ground, don’t need anyone jumping over a few quotes being taken out of context the first week of October. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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