The flip to RR was the worst call I've ever seen.

[Augie]

54 minutes ago, mattynh said:

The evidence was clear and convincing....no clue how that was not a pass.

 

The ball only goes forward, if only slightly, if the hand/arm sends it forward, if only slightly. 

[LSHMEAB]

I'm really anxious to hear an explanation.

 

Had it been executed, it would have been a reception. Makes no sense.

[Livinginthepast]

4 hours ago, Real McCoy said:

Was mind boggling and made zero sense. I thought the challenge was an excellent one as well.

 

Always a 1st though, just like the illegal block in the back when we were the ones punting the ball? WTH? How does that even happen?

 

 

 

I watched that "block in the back" play several times. I couldn't see the player called #30 (apparently Pitts the CB) on any of the plays or the alleged "block in the back" on any angle. In addition why would a kicking team player ever block in the back on their own punt???? Never seen that call in almost 40 years of watching football, NFL, NCAA, CFL, USFL or even XFL!!! Call makes no sense. Romo and Nantz didn't even question it.

Edited September 24, 2018 by Livinginthepast
typos

[Rob's House]

Speaking of bad calls, next week I don't think we should block Clay Matthews. The league has determined that it's against the rules for him to tackle a QB.

[26CornerBlitz]

Daboll said at his presser today it was a fumble with Allen not establishing control.

[Warcodered]

2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

Daboll said at his presser today it was a fumble with Allen not establishing control.

I guess I can kind of see that but I would of thought the refs would of come back saying the call stands and not confirmed.

[TroutDog]

On 9/23/2018 at 5:08 PM, 4merper4mer said:

It meant nothing but there is zero way to explain the no reversal on the flip to McCloud called a fumble.

 

It wasn't the worst in terms of impact but it could not have been an easier reversal.  Mahomes and Brady use that play and when it works it is called a completion, not a rush.

 

Can anyone explain?

The explanation is poor officiating, in my opinion. 

[Doc Brown]

I guess they went back to needing indisputable video evidence this year.  The Bills would of appreciated that standard on that Benjamin no touchdown ruling in Foxborough last year.

[pennstate10]

Just to clarify--

Daboll said he thought it was a fumble, or Daboll says that why the officials called it a fumble.

 

It was precisely the same play as last week that was a completion of a 1 yd pass.

[LABILLBACKER]

On 9/23/2018 at 2:22 PM, Coach Tuesday said:

Someone here told me a few days ago that the replay system works fine...

 

It doesn’t.  The NFL is populated by bozos.

The replay system does work perfectly. It's just the incredibly flawed humans that attempt to manage it.

[Koko78]

23 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

What really pissed me off is when the guy announced "The ruling on the field has been confirmed."

 

These guys truly don't have a clue.

 

I rather appreciated the ****-eating grin he had on his face when he said "confirmed".

[Hapless Bills Fan]

23 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

 

Think it was because it looked exactly the same as if he’d dropped the ball. There was no forward arm motion that I could see. He just released it with his hand. The intent was a shovel pass but you can’t go by intent. If he had just dropped it, it would’ve looked exactly the same. Guessing that was it. I actually thought it was a fair call for that reason. 

 

The intent was a flip pass.  The Bills used the same flip pass with exactly the same hand motion, successfully to Foster in Week 2.  2:33 in the 1Q if you have all-22 and want to check it out - one of the nicer plays of that horrid first half.  The NFL logged it as a pass - a flip pass.  Make up your minds, NFL.

It was a totally crap call, because if the NFL can correctly recognize and log a flip pass in Week 2, they need to be able to recognize it when it's incomplete in Week 3.  Romo diagnosed it correctly.  The snap was late, and McCloud didn't adjust his speed to get there when the ball did.

 

 

 

 

[pennstate10]

I agree with Hapless.

But someone posted in this thread that Daboll said it was a fumble at his press conference.

Is this correct, or did above poster misquote Daboll?

[26CornerBlitz]

42 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

 

Daboll says fumble.

[Shaw66]

23 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

 

Think it was because it looked exactly the same as if he’d dropped the ball. There was no forward arm motion that I could see. He just released it with his hand. The intent was a shovel pass but you can’t go by intent. If he had just dropped it, it would’ve looked exactly the same. Guessing that was it. I actually thought it was a fair call for that reason. 

I don't know the rule, but I don't think his arm going forward decides the issue.  

 

It was either a forward pass or a fumble.  Those are the only two things it could be.   It's a fumble if the person with the ball - Allen, in this case, loses control of the ball involuntarily, like he gets it and he drops it, or if he throws it intentionally but the ball doesn't go forward.   It's a forward pass if he lets go of it voluntarily and the ball moves forward.   

 

In this case it may be true that his hands didn't move forward, but the ball did.  If he lets go of the ball voluntarily and the ball moves forward, it's a forward pass. 

 

Plus, think of it this way:   There's no question Allen released the ball voluntarily, and there's no question the ball moved forward.  As a matter of physics, Allen must have done SOMETHING to cause the ball to move forward - he didn't need arm motion, he just needed a small finger flick.  I doubt there's a rule that says it's only a pass if his arm moves.   If he's strong enough to pass it forward with his fingers, it's still a pass. 

[Kelly the Dog]

23 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

 

Think it was because it looked exactly the same as if he’d dropped the ball. There was no forward arm motion that I could see. He just released it with his hand. The intent was a shovel pass but you can’t go by intent. If he had just dropped it, it would’ve looked exactly the same. Guessing that was it. I actually thought it was a fair call for that reason. 

His hands slightly moved forward which caused the ball to slightly go forward. Romo even referred to the slight movement on the replay.  

 

I imagine Daboll is saying it was a fumble to make sure that Allen catches it and does an exaggerated move,ent so the refs don't call it that again. 

 

Imo, either Allen stepped up too close or McCloud ran too close to Allen. There needs to be about a yard between them so he can easily catch it on the run. On the Foster try, which was the same play, there was a yard at least between Allen and Foster. Yesterday, it was about a foot, which is why they were able to call it a fumble, which wasn't true. Allen actually caught the ball and ever so slightly pushed it forward. 

Edited September 24, 2018 by Kelly the Dog

[Figster]

7 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I don't know the rule, but I don't think his arm going forward decides the issue.  

 

It was either a forward pass or a fumble.  Those are the only two things it could be.   It's a fumble if the person with the ball - Allen, in this case, loses control of the ball involuntarily, like he gets it and he drops it, or if he throws it intentionally but the ball doesn't go forward.   It's a forward pass if he lets go of it voluntarily and the ball moves forward.   

 

In this case it may be true that his hands didn't move forward, but the ball did.  If he lets go of the ball voluntarily and the ball moves forward, it's a forward pass. 

 

Plus, think of it this way:   There's no question Allen released the ball voluntarily, and there's no question the ball moved forward.  As a matter of physics, Allen must have done SOMETHING to cause the ball to move forward - he didn't need arm motion, he just needed a small finger flick.  I doubt there's a rule that says it's only a pass if his arm moves.   If he's strong enough to pass it forward with his fingers, it's still a pass. 

 The arm not going forward could be why the penalty was confirmed in my humble opinion.

 

It If'y ,but that would explain it because i'm not sure push which could have been done with forward motion of the body constitutes arm going forward.

Edited September 24, 2018 by Figster

[NewEra]

We see this type of call against us every game or so.  The refs call it against us on the field.  It’s SO obvious that they got it wrong.  We challenge, surely we’ll win.  The refs have eyes.....right?  Noooooo, call stands and not one person that saw the play can understand why

[Shaw66]

2 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

His hands slightly moved forward which caused the ball to slightly go forward. Room even referred to the slight movement on the replay.  

Look at the Daboll presser.  He admits it was a fumble.   He says the QB has to catch the ball clearly and then release it.  He says the timing was bad and Allen had to get rid of it too fast. 

 

Frankly, I think that's incorrect, because if I call the video correctly, Allen's fingers clearly closed on the ball - he caught it.  Then he released it.  

[Kelly the Dog]

7 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I don't know the rule, but I don't think his arm going forward decides the issue.  

 

It was either a forward pass or a fumble.  Those are the only two things it could be.   It's a fumble if the person with the ball - Allen, in this case, loses control of the ball involuntarily, like he gets it and he drops it, or if he throws it intentionally but the ball doesn't go forward.   It's a forward pass if he lets go of it voluntarily and the ball moves forward.   

 

In this case it may be true that his hands didn't move forward, but the ball did.  If he lets go of the ball voluntarily and the ball moves forward, it's a forward pass. 

 

Plus, think of it this way:   There's no question Allen released the ball voluntarily, and there's no question the ball moved forward.  As a matter of physics, Allen must have done SOMETHING to cause the ball to move forward - he didn't need arm motion, he just needed a small finger flick.  I doubt there's a rule that says it's only a pass if his arm moves.   If he's strong enough to pass it forward with his fingers, it's still a pass. 

I believe the arm needs to be going forward. That's how they determine incomplete passes versus fumbles a lot of times. In this case, Allen's arms did move ever so slightly forward. 

[bobs0108]

23 hours ago, Cripple Creek said:

Isn't the final determination made in NYC?

It’s my understanding that the head official looks at a tablet or something to make the call on the field. I think it should be like college where their is a replay official not involved on the field so he doesn’t have to be like “hey I made a mistake my bad”

[Hapless Bills Fan]

12 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

Daboll says fumble.

 

Wow.

[Kelly the Dog]

Just now, Shaw66 said:

Look at the Daboll presser.  He admits it was a fumble.   He says the QB has to catch the ball clearly and then release it.  He says the timing was bad and Allen had to get rid of it too fast. 

 

Frankly, I think that's incorrect, because if I call the video correctly, Allen's fingers clearly closed on the ball - he caught it.  Then he released it.  

As I said I think Daboll is saying that for his players. You are right. He caught it and moved it. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, Kelly the Dog said:

I believe the arm needs to be going forward. That's how they determine incomplete passes versus fumbles a lot of times. In this case, Allen's arms did move ever so slightly forward. 

 

Daboll says the refs were right and we're wrong.

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Wow.

 

Looks like a pass to me.  

[Kelly the Dog]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Daboll says the refs were right and we're wrong.

I know but he started Nathan Peterman, so you cannot trust his judgment or his eyes or his veracity when he says something happened for a good reason. 

 

[Warcodered]

They won the game and they're focused on Green Bay I think they just want to move on.

[gobills1212]

Prob say something stupid like the almost saftey last week. He didnt actually possess it to catch it - maybe they said he didnt posess it to throw it. Made it 10x worse not overturning it. Regardless of saying they just care about the right call, there is still a matter of pride involved.

Im 30 and umpire as well as still play hardball. I have adjusted the temper in later years in re: to giving umps crap while playing. If i make a call, ill often call time to confer with the other ump before its even asked for bc at the end of the day i want the call to be correct. Coaches usually wont give you crap as long as youve made an effort to ensure it was correct and even if they dont agree, at least they respect it. What i cant stand is umping with or having an old man ump who cant even wobble half way across the infield to make a call and then refuses to huddle when asked bc they are so sure they got the call correct the 1st time. Good part is they generally cant hear either so you can get it out under your breath:)

[pennstate10]

Daboll was really saying it was a bang-bang play.  Judgement call.  Couldnt prove that Allen had possession, so call on field stood.

 

I dont have the play recorded, but I think Allen had possession, even for a microsecond, before he nudged it forward.  Its like a touch pass in hockey.  You have control on your stick, if only for the briefest of time.

 

Still say it was a bad call.

[Kelly the Dog]

Since when does anyone associated with the NFL league office or officials know what "catching a football" means? 

Edited September 24, 2018 by Kelly the Dog

[Hapless Bills Fan]

23 minutes ago, DrDare said:

 

well then you sir, are a complete moron

 

Apparently he is in company with Daboll then.

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Since when does anyone associated with the NFL league office or officials know what "catching a football" means? 

 

Al Riveron says bleep you. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Since when does anyone associated with the NFL league office or officials know what "catching a football" means? 

 

A fair and balanced point, Sir

[Orlando Tim]

On 9/23/2018 at 5:22 PM, Coach Tuesday said:

Someone here told me a few days ago that the replay system works fine...

 

It doesn’t.  The NFL is populated by bozos.

I truly believe they call things differently based on player- not necessarily team- just like NBA. Certain lineman always hold and certain qbs always get roughed. The bozos simply care less about rules and more abput protecting certain players.

[Cripple Creek]

30 minutes ago, bobs0108 said:

It’s my understanding that the head official looks at a tablet or something to make the call on the field. I think it should be like college where their is a replay official not involved on the field so he doesn’t have to be like “hey I made a mistake my bad”

Wow, more convoluted than that, but the final answer comes from NYC.

[Figster]

18 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Apparently he is in company with Daboll then.

include me , but for a different reason then Daboll's

 

In the two pics you can tell Allen took a step forward allowing forward momentum to push the football forward without much arm movement iMO.

 

I also think Dabolls explanation makes sense.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, Figster said:

include me , but for a different reason then Daboll's

 

In the two pics you can tell Allen took a step forward allowing forward momentum to push the football forward without much arm movement iMO.

 

I also think Dabolls explanation makes sense.

 

To be clear, the 2 picks I posted are of the Chargers all 22 and its successful flip pass to Foster.

The all22 for yesterday won’t come out until noon tomorrow and I don’t have Youtube TV

[26CornerBlitz]

4 minutes ago, Figster said:

include me , but for a different reason then Daboll's

 

In the two pics you can tell Allen took a step forward allowing forward momentum to push the football forward without much arm movement iMO.

 

I also think Dabolls explanation makes sense.

 

That's why he's called Brain Daboll. 

 

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

To be clear, the 2 picks I posted are of the Chargers all 22 and its successful flip pass to Foster.

The all22 for yesterday won’t come out until noon tomorrow and I don’t have Youtube TV

 

It's already been out for at least a few hours. 

Edited September 25, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

That's why he's called Brain Daboll. 

 

 

It's already been out for at least a few hours. 

 

On YouTube tv.  NFL gamepass won’t be out until noon on Tues.

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

On YouTube tv.  NFL gamepass won’t be out until noon on Tues.

 

It's out now and I looked at some of it myself.