QB competition

[PeterDude]

McBeane needs Allen to save their collective ass, I'm not expecting him to do so however. This franchise once again really looks foolish.

[clayboy54]

It was frightening to see the "deer in the headlights" look from Nate on Sunday. That is the mark of a player that not only has no confidence, but is in no way prepared to be in that role. Perhaps it is on the offensive coaches for not properly preparing him. More likely, it is a sign that he is just not able to process what he is seeing. After watching the game a second time, it looked to me like he never previously saw any of what he was seeing in the game. Like he was playing in his first football game ever. It became worse play after play. By the time he was pulled, he looked totally befuddled.

 

On the other hand, Josh Allen, who didn't even get 1st team reps in practice, looked cool and was clearly processing what he was seeing in front of him. Never-mind the result, the mental part of the game was without doubt Nate's undoing. Yet the fears of throwing Josh to the wolves suddenly became less worrisome to me when I saw how well he kept his poise, moved around and even threw the ball away when there wasn't anything there for him. I didn't see his footwork clearly, and whether he bailed early on the sacks too well. I did see once that Josh stepped into a sack. Just once. Yet Nate was lost at the moment of the snap. You could just see it in his muscular actions and his demeanor. Not a good sign fo his future.

 

Finally, since we heard how smart Nate is, how well composed he is in practices, and how well he prepares, it was shocking to see how lost he was in the game. From a distance, I would say he is finished as an NFL QB. Someone that has lost composure this badly will almost never be able to recover from it, especially for his current team. Perhaps the team knew this and that's why they showed such a lackluster effort. For those coaches that didn't already admit this, they have no denial of it now. IMO, Nate's NFL career is over.

 

So endeth this QB competition.

Edited September 10, 2018 by clayboy54

[starrymessenger]

Peterman's physical skillset was never going to be his strong suit, but the thinking (hope) was that he would be long on QB smarts and, with the help of his QB coach and OC, the mental components necessary for playing the position. Unfortunately he looked yesterday pretty much (tho not quite) the same player we saw in LA last year. I'm not sure exactly how much is on him specifically and how much on the WR group and on the OC but it's also clear (and perhaps not surprising given his lack of experience) that he has not acclimated at all to real game in season action. I thought the protection yesterday was good enuf to allow him to make better use of it than he was able to do so I actually did not see this as the main problem.

Having been early retired from his only two regular season starts, I have a hard time seeing McD starting him vs the Chargers (tho it might happen). My concern though is that mixing Allen in with a sub par group and a poor game plan may jeapordize his development. Just as Peterman looked like the same player we saw last year, when Allen has struggled he has looked a lot like the guy he was at WYO (which is not how you want him to look). 

[Alphadawg7]

48 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Almost every article I read on Peterman this offseason is he looked sharp.  I think he absolutely had us fooled.

 

You must not have read many articles.  Several continued to comment about how he did not carry over his momentum from OTAs and had plenty of ups and downs in camp.

 

Rest of this isn’t directed at you, just further commenting.  

 

If he had consistently looked sharp, he would have won the job early.  But it came down to the wire against a guy who struggled in AJM and against a rookie the coaches didn’t want to have to start week 1...yet this lingered to after the 53 roster cut down.  

 

I continued to point out he was fools gold, he had no time against real starters where our Offense was putrid in games 2 and 3 against ones.   He doesn’t make NFL throws, he had dropped INTs,  his last 2 appearances were against scrubs and even the TD pass to Nick was a bad pass that almost cost us a gimme TD on a broken play by the D.

 

But everyome kept saying “80% completion” over and over while refusing to use any context to how those stats were compiled.  

 

Just like how all offseason how I said Groy is NOT a quality starter, that the OL was already bad and now gonna be horrendous.  Yet people kept telling me the OL is fine and Groy is a starter.  I pointed out real Games where he was dominated and a liability, yet people pointed to OTAs and stuff to say Groy is good.  Then after facing a vanilla D in the first preseason game against partial starters, people doubled down on the OL being sharp.  

 

At some point I assume people will stop using preseason stats only to turn people into people who they are not.  Every year it’s the same thing.

Edited September 10, 2018 by Alphadawg7

[Boatdrinks]

55 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

The problem is that they didn't go get a vet. They got 3 guys with a total of 6 starts. They decided to wager on all young 'upside' instead of bringing in at least one who has proven they can play a few games at QB without vomiting all over themselves.

This ^. We know the Bills called Bradford first thing in FA, but they didn’t want to / couldn’t pay him . All things being equal, no QB was coming here with virtually no WRs. It was a tough spot, but one they created and they failed to get a decent vet QB to hold the fort down until Allen is ready. Nathan Peterman is a complete joke of a QB. 

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

You must not have read many articles.  Several continued to comment about how he did not carry over his momentum from OTAs and had plenty of ups and downs in camp.  If he had consistently looked sharp, he would have won the job early.  But it came down to the wire against a guy who struggled in AJM and against a rookie the coaches didn’t want to have to start week 1...yet this lingered to after the 53 roster cut down.  

 

I continued to point out he was fools gold, he had no time against real starters where our Offense was putrid in games 2 and 3 against ones.   He doesn’t make NFL throws, he had dropped INTs,  his last 2 appearances were against scrubs and even the TD pass to Nick was a bad pass that almost cost us a gimme TD on a broken play by the D.

 

But everyome kept saying “80% completion” over and over while refusing to use any context to how those stats were compiled.  

 

Just like how all offseason how I said Groy is NOT a quality starter, that the OL was already bad and now gonna be horrendous.  Yet people kept telling me the OL is fine and Groy is a starter.  I pointed out real Games where he was dominated and a liability, yet people pointed to OTAs and stuff to say Groy is good.  Then after facing a vanilla D in the first preseason game against partial starters, people doubled down on the OL being sharp.  

 

At some point I assume people will stop using preseason stats only to turn people into people who they are not.  Every year it’s the same thing.

 

I wasn't referencing the preseason stats.  I only reference preseason stats when someone is just really bad.  If they're playing well, they should with a vanilla playbook.

 

I read almost every training camp report about the QB competition.  Nate had the most positive days overall according to these reports/twitter recaps.

 

I wasn't very high on Nate coming into this year.  I didn't think he had a chance to start.  I think what happened (just my opinion) is they wanted AJM to win the competition but AJM never took a hold of if.  They want Allen to sit and learn.  While AJM didn't seize the position, that's when Nate kept staying around.  

 

I can't critique the offensive line unless is clearly obvious.  So I wasn't sure if Groy was going to be good or not.  

Do you think he could start at Guard and we would be better with Bodine at center?

[CoachT]

56 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

No one (except SaviorPeterman) thought he was good, even McBeane which is why we took Allen but I don't think we expected an even worse performance that he had at LA.  

I think he had more interceptions than completions against the chargers , so this game was sadly his best performance.

[teef]

nate's level of poor play yesterday was artful.  i was mentally done with him before yesterday, and now...i'm thinking about painting things on his front lawn.

[CoachT]

I just looked it up ..

 

His completion to interception ratio is actually pretty good. 24 career completions vs 7 interceptions. 

 

I know most people look at TD vs Int, but im a real QB evaluator like Beane and McD

[Alphadawg7]

5 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I wasn't referencing the preseason stats.  I only reference preseason stats when someone is just really bad.  If they're playing well, they should with a vanilla playbook.

 

I read almost every training camp report about the QB competition.  Nate had the most positive days overall according to these reports/twitter recaps.

 

I wasn't very high on Nate coming into this year.  I didn't think he had a chance to start.  I think what happened (just my opinion) is they wanted AJM to win the competition but AJM never took a hold of if.  They want Allen to sit and learn.  While AJM didn't seize the position, that's when Nate kept staying around.  

 

I can't critique the offensive line unless is clearly obvious.  So I wasn't sure if Groy was going to be good or not.  

Do you think he could start at Guard and we would be better with Bodine at center?

 

PS:  I updated my post before you replied but you had already started to reply so it quoted it as original.  I made the note that most of my post was NOT in response to you, just me commenting further on the overall topic.  

 

As far as the WB stuff you said, yeah I felt the same that AJM was gonna won the competition.  However, while I totally agree with you that AJM definitely didn’t seize the job, I think nate won the job for 2 reasons:

 

1.  Nate never faced a starting D, and no Carolina doesn’t count for anyone who is gonna reply to say he did.  This offense was eaten alive against starting D’s, so Nate never got the chance to show how inept the offense is with him running it ins more realistic game situation.

 

2.  NP has zero trade value and Beane was able to fetch a 5th round pick for AJM.  Because AJM didn’t seize the job, they went ahead and took back a trade asset since they didn’t want to keep 3 QBs. Had they been able to trade NP for a 5th, I think they would have made trade too.

 

On your question about the OL, Groy is not a quality starter at C or G IMO.  I think moving him to G and letting Bodine play C isn’t going to make much a difference at all because Bodine sucks at C too.

 

Im not mad at Beane over the OL, it’s not like it’s his fault Wood had an injury force him into retirement or knew Richie was gonna go crazy and retire too.  You can only do so much in an off season, and Beane has us set with lots of picks (which many should be near the top of the round if we keep playing this bad) and toms of cap space to add some talent to the OL and at WR.  He did the right thing this year goin after the QB on O and D with Allen and Edmunds, and both are looking like they have bright futures.  Next year it’s about adding talent around them.  

 

[Royale with Cheese]

5 minutes ago, teef said:

nate's level of poor play yesterday was artful.  i was mentally done with him before yesterday, and now...i'm thinking about painting things on his front lawn.

 

Nate has been equivalent to George Clooney playing Batman.  Just bad and shouldn't be done again.  

[teef]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Nate has been equivalent to George Clooney playing Batman.  Just bad and shouldn't be done again.  

ohhhh.  that's good.

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

PS:  I updated my post before you replied but you had already started to reply so it quoted it as original.  I made the note that most of my post was NOT in response to you, just me commenting further on the overall topic.  

 

As far as the WB stuff you said, yeah I felt the same that AJM was gonna won the competition.  However, while I totally agree with you that AJM definitely didn’t seize the job, I think nate won the job for 2 reasons:

 

1.  Nate never faced a starting D, and no Carolina doesn’t count for anyone who is gonna reply to say he did.  This offense was eaten alive against starting D’s, so Nate never got the chance to show how inept the offense is with him running it ins more realistic game situation.

 

2.  NP has zero trade value and Beane was able to fetch a 5th round pick for AJM.  Because AJM didn’t seize the job, they went ahead and took back a trade asset since they didn’t want to keep 3 QBs. Had they been able to trade NP for a 5th, I think they would have made trade too.

 

On your question about the OL, Groy is not a quality starter at C or G IMO.  I think moving him to G and letting Bodine play C isn’t going to make much a difference at all because Bodine sucks at C too.

 

Im not mad at Beane over the OL, it’s not like it’s his fault Wood had an injury force him into retirement or knew Richie was gonna go crazy and retire too.  You can only do so much in an off season, and Beane has us set with lots of picks (which many should be near the top of the round if we keep playing this bad) and toms of cap space to add some talent to the OL and at WR.  He did the right thing this year goin after the QB on O and D with Allen and Edmunds, and both are looking like they have bright futures.  Next year it’s about adding talent around them.  

 

 

So do you think any oline shuffling could help?  

Throw Teller to the wolves?  

Bodine isn't good but is he at least a slight upgrade over Groy?

Newhouse to guard to start but swing up outside if there's an injury?

[Jobot]

1 hour ago, bmur66 said:

Like Mike Tyson said. Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.

 

I wish they would have kept Tyrod until Allen was ready

 

Didn't we use the Tyrod pick to trade up to get Allen?  I don't think we'd have Allen.

[BuffaloHokie13]

Just now, Jobot said:

 

Didn't we use the Tyrod pick to trade up to get Allen?  I don't think we'd have Allen.

No, that was used for Edmunds

[Alphadawg7]

37 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

So do you think any oline shuffling could help?  

Throw Teller to the wolves?  

Bodine isn't good but is he at least a slight upgrade over Groy?

Newhouse to guard to start but swing up outside if there's an injury?

 

I don’t think any shuffle is gonna help

much, but I do think we need to get Teller out there at some point to see what he can do.  I don’t know if Bodine or Groy is better at center, I just know neither is any good and shouldn’t be a starter in the NFL.

 

I suspect we will likely see some shuffling across the OL in the early parts of the season while they try to find the “best” bad combo lol.

[fansince88]

5 hours ago, Gigs said:

He’s a good Christian man like the HC...so he’s safe. Why else would McD have to “look at the tape” for a fair assessment? He’s giving him every chance in the world because he has a weakness for guys like that. 

See below. Best answer. Get over yourself

3 hours ago, BigBuff423 said:

When McD says he'll need to look at the tape, I suspect it's his way of saying, "Look, it's painfully obvious but I won't throw my QB under the bus in the media. Also, I need to tell him face-to-face that's he's done barring injury. Telling him now through you folks, isn't the kind of guy I am"....

 

In other words, what else should he say about a player in particular? If he tosses Nate to the wolves he loses that credibility with his locker room. He needs to tell Nate personally before he says anything publicly. It's amusing to me that many people don't understand that. Take any other job, if your boss went to the other co-workers, along with your family, friends and neighbors and told them, "Dude is demoted, he couldn't cut it", before he / she spoke to you directly, that would be insulting, right? In that case, suck it up and do your job or look elsewhere but in the NFL it affects the locker room which affects the games. So, you take the heat for not stating the obvious and then you tell him on Tuesday that it's Josh Allen time. 

 

IF he doesn't....then flame away, but until then - let's give him a chance to just be a decent human being. Nothing to do with the Christian stuff....just sound management principles in terms of handling people. 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

5 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I don’t think any shuffle is gonna help

much, but I do think we need to get Teller out there at some point to see what he can do.  I don’t know if Bodine or Groy is better at center, I just know neither is any good and shouldn’t be a starter in the NFL.

 

I suspect we will likely see some shuffling across the OL in the early parts of the season while they try to find the “best” bad combo lol.

 

Would you say center is as bad as our guard play?

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

No one (except SaviorPeterman) thought he was good, even McBeane which is why we took Allen but I don't think we expected an even worse performance that he had at LA.  

 

you weren't paying attention.  Many here told you that it be this way. 

[ngbills]

3 hours ago, mattynh said:

Mcdermott and Beane are determined to make their draft pick stick no matter how bad he is.  I mean the guy is good in shorts and preseason games....isnt that good enough?

McD wants to make his decision last year stick. His first bold move of his career and he was a laughing stock. He may just well go down trying to prove he was right. 

[Chandler#81]

8 interceptions in 8 quarters of League play.

Thats gotta be some kind of record, right? 2

dubious NFL records in less than 2 full games.

 

Indeed, what more does he have to do for McBeane to finally realize their mistake?

[Gugny]

Just now, Chandler#81 said:

8 interceptions in 8 quarters of League play.

Thats gotta be some kind of record, right? 2

dubious NFL records in less than 2 full games.

 

Indeed, what more does he have to do for McBeane to finally realize their mistake?

 

I think it's going to have to be something REALLY BAD like getting zero first downs in an entire half.

[Kirby Jackson]

Are we all finally in agreement that he’s the worst QB we’ve ever started? 

[Gugny]

Just now, Kirby Jackson said:

Are we all finally in agreement that he’s the worst QB we’ve ever started? 

 

I certainly think so.  I opined that in another thread and was countered with Billy Joe Hobert.

 

Nope.  Peterman's worse.

[BuffaloHokie13]

1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Are we all finally in agreement that he’s the worst QB we’ve ever started? 

I'll need to review the film before making any determinations like that.

[Happy]

Just now, Kirby Jackson said:

Are we all finally in agreement that he’s the worst QB we’ve ever started? 

 

Ever?  Ever is pretty strong, but yeah, Peterman is bad.  But was he as bad as say Jeff Tuel?  Or EJ Manuel?

[CommonCents]

He has thrown for 148 yards, his interceptions have something like 131 yards in returns. That’s sad. 

[ngbills]

Just now, Kirby Jackson said:

Are we all finally in agreement that he’s the worst QB we’ve ever started? 

By far and it should not be hard to see. I am troubled how this coaching staff does not see it. He should not have made the roster. I dont care how he looked good completing easy passes in preseason. Look at preseason stats over the years and you see tons of guys that never make a team have good games. 

[Kirby Jackson]

Just now, Happy Gilmore said:

 

Ever?  Ever is pretty strong, but yeah, Peterman is bad.  But was he as bad as say Jeff Tuel?  Or EJ Manuel?

If you think it’s a question don’t put them side-by-side. Those guys did WAY more than Nate (and that’s saying something). He’s not even close to them. Hobert is a fair comparison but Nate is worse.

[ngbills]

1 minute ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

Ever?  Ever is pretty strong, but yeah, Peterman is bad.  But was he as bad as say Jeff Tuel?  Or EJ Manuel?

Yes- it was posted somewhere else. Worst stat lines out of 227 QB starters since 2001. 

[BuffaloHokie13]

Just now, Happy Gilmore said:

 

Ever?  Ever is pretty strong, but yeah, Peterman is bad.  But was he as bad as say Jeff Tuel?  Or EJ Manuel?

30/70 for 290 Yards (4.14 YPA) 2 TDs and 8 INTs in roughly 2 games worth of action. Translates to a 25.0 Passer Rating and a negative ANY/A.

[ngbills]

EJ 16 ints in 590 attempts

Tuel 3 ints in 59 attempts

 

NP 7 ints in 67 attempts

[Happy]

Well then, that is pretty bad.  I guess the only reason Peterman even registers in YPA and has 2 TDs is the snow game vs the Colts.  

[BuffaloHokie13]

2 minutes ago, ngbills said:

EJ 16 ints in 590 attempts

Tuel 3 ints in 59 attempts

 

NP 7 ints in 67 attempts

8 in 70 if you include the Jags

Just now, Happy Gilmore said:

Well then, that is pretty bad.  I guess the only reason Peterman even registers in YPA and has 2 TDs is the snow game vs the Colts.  

1, his other was the Saints when we were down by 91.37

[Happy]

1 minute ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

1, his other was the Saints when we were down by 91.37

 

That's right, forgot about that.  He relieved Tyrod when the game was well out of hand and NO had their backups in.

[Alphadawg7]

32 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Would you say center is as bad as our guard play?

 

I think so personally, but I also think that all the play across the line is below par and we right now don't have anyone I can confidently say does not need to be replaced with a better starter.  I feel like at all 5 spots we got guys playing like they are career backups at best.

[colin]

i think JA never really had a shot to win the starting job.  he never got the number of snaps w the 1s required to show his stuff and win the job, it was always the plan to bench him to start.  this was a horrible stupid plan by the bills brain trust.

 

now that we know NP IS WHAT WE THOUGHT HE WAS, it's time to lose with the rookie rather than with the total waste of roster space.  if peterman starts while JA is healthy, it shows our coaches are just automatons who follow a retarded "process" which means they can't make decisions.  i also think starting peterman next week will lead to the coaches losing the locker room.

 

a bounce back win by the bills would be huge right now, and starting JA is the only way to make that even possible.

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I think so personally, but I also think that all the play across the line is below par and we right now don't have anyone I can confidently say does not need to be replaced with a better starter.  I feel like at all 5 spots we got guys playing like they are career backups at best.

 

Even Dawkins?

[dakrider]

I'm primarily a Wyoming and Josh Allen fan, and I was happy the Bills took Allen in the first round.  I really didn't expect Allen to be a starter for at least half a season. 
But after seeing the Bills play I think they should have signed a seasoned QB instead and not a 2nd year rookie and a non seasoned backup like they did.  

Allen is a raw rookie quarterback and he doesn't have a proven qb to learn from.  I hope he survives his first year. 

[Alphadawg7]

10 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Even Dawkins?

 

Yes, even Dawkins.  What has he down to show he is a quality starter?  Dumb penalties, guys blowing by him.  He could be a victim of the lack of talent around him, but he certainly hasn't shown to be anything more than serviceable IMO right now.  I will say this about Dawkins though, I dont know how plausible it will be to find 5 new starters on the OL next offseason (although we got plenty of cap room and draft picks to potentially do it), so if I had to pick one guy that I think could still be starting within a new group of players for us next year, it would be Dawkins.  He is our best OL player right now, but thats also not saying a whole lot IMO.