Cover 1: Aaron Quinn's "Closing Arguments" Case for Starting Allen

[LEBills]

I’m completely good with starting JA. I think game 3 showed what he has to work on but did not show how he or this team will actually play in the season.

 

However, if you do start JA, there is no going backwards. No switching to Peterman or McCarron trying to save the season after a couple of losses. You ride it out with Allen and let him learn.

 

I think Peterman will be the starter because of this though. They know they can’t go from Josh to Nate midway through the season but they know they can go from Nate to Josh without much criticism.

 

 

[26CornerBlitz]

Michael Lombardi: Start Josh Allen; 'Ridiculous' to play Nate Peterman because offensive line stinks

 

After Josh Allen struggled against the Cincinnati Bengals Sunday at New Era Field, some experts said the Buffalo Bills should pull the reins back a bit with the rookie gunslinger and turn to Nathan Peterman at quarterback to start the season.

 

Former NFL executive and Ringer podcast host Michael Lombardi said that's "ridiculous."

 

"To me the most ridiculous thing I ever heard is they should play Peterman because the line's not good," Lombardi said on Monday's episode of the "GM Street" podcast. "But the line isn't gonna be good for him either. ... Is the line gonna get any better because Nate Peterman's playing? The line stinks, it doesn't matter who plays quarterback.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 hour ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

You're right and they were already booing horrible OL play.

I am truly awaiting what the OL will look like when DC's are game planning stunts and 5 man rushes.

Don't name Peterman the "starter" just let him start the 1st game.

That decision can easily be made and explained by McDermott.

 

 

...pull a "Belichick"....

 

Allen-questionable; hangnail

McCarron-questionable; sore shoulder

Peterman-questionable; quick outitis

 

...should be good.............

[ColoradoBills]

7 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...pull a "Belichick"....

 

Allen-questionable; hangnail

McCarron-questionable; sore shoulder

Peterman-questionable; quick outitis

 

...should be good.............

 

Well done!

LOL

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

49 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Did McD reference the opponents? I thought he simply said Peterman had been consistent.

https://www.buffalobills.com/_mobileview/news/where-qb-competition-is-headed-going-into-final-preseason-week

 

 

When you look across all three games to this point, including practice, but let's just take the games, he has shown that consistency, which is good to see," said McDermott. "A young player just in the start of his second season who has shown some poise and some understanding of how the NFL works in terms of defensive schemes. So I've watched him grow and develop, which is good to see. Still more work to do, but I think he has been consistent, which is important at the quarterback position."

[starrymessenger]

22 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

Michael Lombardi: Start Josh Allen; 'Ridiculous' to play Nate Peterman because offensive line stinks

 

After Josh Allen struggled against the Cincinnati Bengals Sunday at New Era Field, some experts said the Buffalo Bills should pull the reins back a bit with the rookie gunslinger and turn to Nathan Peterman at quarterback to start the season.

 

Former NFL executive and Ringer podcast host Michael Lombardi said that's "ridiculous."

 

"To me the most ridiculous thing I ever heard is they should play Peterman because the line's not good," Lombardi said on Monday's episode of the "GM Street" podcast. "But the line isn't gonna be good for him either. ... Is the line gonna get any better because Nate Peterman's playing? The line stinks, it doesn't matter who plays quarterback.

 

Peterman, for now, will get the ball out quicker, will be more accurate with it, and will better synchronize his drops with the patterns his receivers will be running.

Lombardi is a defective unit. 

[26CornerBlitz]

4 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

 

Peterman, for now, will get the ball out quicker and throw it to opposing DBs, will be more accurate with it and throw it to opposing DBs, and will better synchronize his drops with the patterns his receivers will be running and throw it to opposing DBs.

Lombardi is a defective unit. 

 

Fixed. 

 

 

Edited August 28, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Isn’t editing a persons post against the terms ???

 

[Warcodered]

Just now, ShadyBillsFan said:

Isn’t editing a persons post against the terms ???

 

Would it be it's not like he's pretending he said that, the entire point of the post is that he changed it.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 hours ago, Soda Popinski said:

I wanted to start the season with Allen, but let Peterman get killed behind that porous oline first.    We need to learn to block before we ruin a young QB. 

 

Poor Peterman.  Even those of the fan-base who favor him to start largely view him as cannon-fodder.

 

I actually view Sunday's game as proof the Bills Brain Trust want Anyone But Allen to start.  Why?  IMO, that was a game plan with playcalls calculated to make a young QB think "Damn I got a lot to learn ahead of me before I'm ready" and not "Put me In Coach I'm ready to Play".

 

I think it was calculated to make Allen think the former, and not the latter, from which I conclude that starting someone else (probably Peterman) is the plan.

 

15 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Isn’t editing a persons post against the terms ???

 

It's objectionable unless it's clear what the original post said and what was changed.   Be a bit clearer to add "bolded text added by me" or the like, but it seemed pretty clear it was edited.

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[hemma]

Start Peterman.  IMO, however temporary, he has won the position.

 

If we are behind by 28-7, put Allen in.

If we are ahead by 28-7, put Allen in.

 

Allen needs experience and if the game is out of hand, give him that experience.

 

 

[ColoradoBills]

14 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

 

Peterman, for now, will get the ball out quicker, will be more accurate with it, and will better synchronize his drops with the patterns his receivers will be running.

Lombardi is a defective unit. 

 

It's a hot take by Lombardi.

 

Anyone with half a brain knows it's about Josh Allen's ability as a rookie to handle a brutal pass rush with a very questionable OL.

If Allen does start against the Ravens I pray he doesn't become a Suggs/Judon/Ducasse clubhouse sandwich!

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Posters?   

How about the head coach?

 

I posted and quoted his words directly from the Bill website. 

 

 

 

 

The quotes I quoted are examples of factually incorrect statements, no matter who is saying or posting them.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

22 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

 

Peterman, for now, will get the ball out quicker, will be more accurate with it, and will better synchronize his drops with the patterns his receivers will be running.

Lombardi is a defective unit. 

 

It's an interesting question.  The thing that concerns me about Peterman is will he try to play Hero Ball again, and try to make throws when he's about to get nailed that result in INTs?

One thing I liked about Allen is I thought he showed good instincts to NOT throw and take the sack when under pressure and not sure where the safe throwaway was.

 

I could be wrong, often am, but I think that Daboll could have done a lot to call a game that wouldn't have been such a jailbreak.

 

 

[26CornerBlitz]

5 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

It's a hot take by Lombardi.

 

Anyone with half a brain knows it's about Josh Allen's ability as a rookie to handle a brutal pass rush with a very questionable OL.

If Allen does start against the Ravens I pray he doesn't become a Suggs/Judon/Ducasse clubhouse sandwich!

 

The same would go for whichever Bills' QB is playing. Allen has the most pocket mobiity of the three candidates. Beware of Brandon Williams. 

 

 

Edited August 28, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz

[Augie]

I didn’t expect to say this, but Peterman gets the ball out on time to the right place more than Josh. AJ has been mediocre at best, and he’s out anyway. I think the staff was hoping to give Allen some time to get acclimated to the speed of things, they saw that Peterman has better rythym and timing with the receivers, and he gets the ball out fast.

 

I say Peterman starts, and Allen will come in when he’s ready...... or by the second series when that OLine gets Peterman killed. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

30 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

The quotes I quoted are examples of factually incorrect statements, no matter who is saying or posting them.

I have your opinion and the opinion of tbe HC.  

 

I’m torn between who to believe.  

29 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

It's an interesting question.  The thing that concerns me about Peterman is will he try to play Hero Ball again, and try to make throws when he's about to get nailed that result in INTs?

One thing I liked about Allen is I thought he showed good instincts to NOT throw and take the sack when under pressure and not sure where the safe throwaway was.

 

I could be wrong, often am, but I think that Daboll could have done a lot to call a game that wouldn't have been such a jailbreak.

 

 

Maybe Nate learned and maybe he didn’t.   

 

As  long as Josh doesn’t play hero ball we should be good.  

 

 

So are you buying into the FO is calling bad plays on purpose to fool the league???

 

Edited August 28, 2018 by ShadyBillsFan

[ColoradoBills]

12 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Poor Peterman.  Even those of the fan-base who favor him to start largely view him as cannon-fodder.

 

I actually view Sunday's game as proof the Bills Brain Trust want Anyone But Allen to start.  Why?  IMO, that was a game plan with playcalls calculated to make a young QB think "Damn I got a lot to learn ahead of me before I'm ready" and not "Put me In Coach I'm ready to Play".

 

I think it was calculated to make Allen think the former, and not the latter, from which I conclude that starting someone else (probably Peterman) is the plan.

 

Good post Hap.

If Nate is going to be the long term backup (which now I think could be a real possibility) he has to realize his role.

I'm shocked on how well he has played and truthfully giving him the Ravens game to prove his worthiness as a long term backup while seeing if the

starters on the OL are NFL worthy seems reasonable to me.

 

As to your other point I also have that feeling.

 

2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

The same would go for whatever Bills' QB is playing . Allen has the most pocket mobiity of the three candidates. Beware of Brandon Williams. 

 

 

 

I know you don't want to see Peterman.  Until I see that this OL is NOT the worse the Bills have fielded since the super bowl era I don't want a raw rookie

franchise QB on the field in real games.  In my opinion Dion Dawkins (with only 11 starts) is the only legitimate OL starter. 

Mills maybe,  but with a ceiling of a lower third starters.  The rest are totally unproven or backups at best.

 

If the OL looks serviceable then Allen can come in. 

19 minutes ago, Augie said:

I didn’t expect to say this, but Peterman gets the ball out on time to the right place more than Josh. AJ has been mediocre at best, and he’s out anyway. I think the staff was hoping to give Allen some time to get acclimated to the speed of things, they saw that Peterman has better rythym and timing with the receivers, and he gets the ball out fast.

 

I say Peterman starts, and Allen will come in when he’s ready...... or by the second series when that OLine gets Peterman killed. 

 

LOL, like Hapless posted earlier, "Poor Peterman"!

Seriously though, if that happened and I was McDermott I would start AJ and then sit in Beane's office until he found some better lineman

OR some more QBs.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

2 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I know you don't want to see Peterman.  Until I see that this OL is NOT the worse the Bills have fielded since the super bowl era I don't want a raw rookie

franchise QB on the field in real games.  In my opinion Dion Dawkins (with only 11 starts) is the only legitimate OL starter. 

Mills maybe,  but with a ceiling of a lower third starters.  The rest are totally unproven or backups at best.

 

If the OL looks serviceable then Allen can come in

Some don’t want to see Nate period.  

 

It’s kind of funny but I went through the same arguments with EJ saying you have to give the kid a break and see if he can improve.  Leroi has EJ being cut 3 years running.  

 

Wrex finally put the nail in that coffin 

[26CornerBlitz]

2 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Good post Hap.

If Nate is going to be the long term backup (which now I think could be a real possibility) he has to realize his role.

I'm shocked on how well he has played and truthfully giving him the Ravens game to prove his worthiness as a long term backup while seeing if the

starters on the OL are NFL worthy seems reasonable to me.

 

As to your other point I also have that feeling.

 

I know you don't want to see Peterman.  Until I see that this OL is NOT the worse the Bills have fielded since the super bowl era I don't want a raw rookie

franchise QB on the field in real games.  In my opinion Dion Dawkins (with only 11 starts) is the only legitimate OL starter. 

Mills maybe,  but with a ceiling of a lower third starters.  The rest are totally unproven or backups at best.

 

If the OL looks serviceable then Allen can come in. 

 

Irrespective of whomever they decide to play they have to get that interior OL situation stabilized or it will be a terrible situation.  The coaching staff will figure do what they think is best and we'll see what happens. 

[starrymessenger]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

It's an interesting question.  The thing that concerns me about Peterman is will he try to play Hero Ball again, and try to make throws when he's about to get nailed that result in INTs?

One thing I liked about Allen is I thought he showed good instincts to NOT throw and take the sack when under pressure and not sure where the safe throwaway was.

 

I could be wrong, often am, but I think that Daboll could have done a lot to call a game that wouldn't have been such a jailbreak.

 

 

 

Clearly the risk with Peterman is that he will be a turnover machine against a good starting defence that can bring pressure. His tendency to try to do more than he is capable of doing, a deadly combo of rookie arrogance and physical limitations (but mostly excessive self-assurance  IMO), would account for this.

He's clearly gotten better though and I'm hoping that he has learned a valuable lesson about playing more within himself, taking what the D is giving you, throwing the ball away and taking a sack when necessary. My view is that Allen's game evidences a similar problem. Though his physical ability is just about in a class by itself, one of the hallmarks of his college game is playing "hero ball", or, as I would rather say, trying to do more than even he can do. I'm not into conspiracy theories but whether it was intended or not (and I assume not) I think the Bengals game will be valuable experience. But I don't think he's there yet. I think Peterman may have learned something similar in LA last year and I suspect he's further along the learning curve. 

I think NP may develop into a good NFL QB, though of course there are no guarantees.  I for one don't think he's Jeff Tuel. Terry Bradshaw said he thought Joe Montana was the GOAT. He also said Joe Montana couldn't throw a 15 yard out. 

I think NP gets the start against the Ravens and I think he will surprise his detractors in a good way. I don't think you will see the same guy you saw in LA last year. 

Im actually quite pleased with the Bills at the all important position (for a team that's a work in progress). They have a phenomenal prospect and another guy who may prove to be a lot better than people give him credit for.

[PlayoffsPlease]

4 hours ago, Soda Popinski said:

I wouldn't trade McCarron.   I'd keep all 3 QBs, we will need them until we figure out how to pass block.   I don't want to be a heartbeat away from Logan Thomas taking snaps at QB because both or guys are out with concussions.  

Reality check, if your third string qb is playing more than one game, your season is over. 

[Alphadawg7]

4 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

This fact has not prevented many posters from claiming he has excelled against "1's, 2's and 3's".... or even "he has played well against other teams 1's in every game".

 

Exactly, its being so over exaggerated...and they forget he threw an Interception against those same 1's the very next drive.

[ColoradoBills]

1 minute ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Some don’t want to see Nate period.  

 

It’s kind of funny but I went through the same arguments with EJ saying you have to give the kid a break and see if he can improve.  Leroi has EJ being cut 3 years running.  

 

Wrex finally put the nail in that coffin 

 

I will admit at the beginning of the season I did not think Peterman was even worthy of backup consideration.

After AJ got hurt and Peterman played well I went backed and watched all his preseason play twice (this time with an open mind).

 

His arm strength is on the bottom end for the NFL but I have to admit he has looked composed, intelligent and quick.

That being said, we will all probably see how that goes in Baltimore.

I now have hope that he can be the long term backup.

[26CornerBlitz]

2 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I will admit at the beginning of the season I did not think Peterman was even worthy of backup consideration.

After AJ got hurt and Peterman played well I went backed and watched all his preseason play twice (this time with an open mind).

 

His arm strength is on the bottom end for the NFL but I have to admit he has looked composed, intelligent and quick.

That being said, we will all probably see how that goes in Baltimore.

I now have hope that he can be the long term backup.

 

 

Quick pressure calls for the ability to successfully complete these passes.  This is a big problem just as it was last season.

[joevan]

Without putting names to the preseason play, who would you pick?

 

1.     24/42 for 57%,  210 yards, 2 TD's, 7 sacks

 

2.   34/41 for 83% , 431 yards, 3 TD's, 1 Int,  2 sacks

 

Seems pretty clear that stat line number 2 has been much more productive.  Stat line 2 is Peterman.

 

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, joevan said:

Without putting names to the preseason play, who would you pick?

 

1.     24/42 for 57%,  210 yards, 2 TD's, 7 sacks

 

2.   34/41 for 83% , 431 yards, 3 TD's, 1 Int,  2 sacks

 

Seems pretty clear that stat line number 2 has been much more productive.  Stat line 2 is Peterman.

 

 

Preseason stat lines?  Come on man!  Do yourself a favor and look at the NFL preseason stat leaders and tell me if those are names you expect to be there in the regular season. 

[ColoradoBills]

27 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

 

Quick pressure calls for the ability to successfully complete these passes.  This is a big problem just as it was last season.

 

Like I'm saying, backup that starts in BAL.

He has to continue to improve too.

He is never gonna tear up the league.

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

54 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

I have your opinion and the opinion of tbe HC.  

 

I’m torn between who to believe.  

Maybe Nate learned and maybe he didn’t.   

 

As  long as Josh doesn’t play hero ball we should be good.  

 

 

So are you buying into the FO is calling bad plays on purpose to fool the league???

 

 

 

It's really not an opinion.  The guy played only 2 series in one game against starters.  So those statements are false.  I'm not sure what your angle is in denying that.

[26CornerBlitz]

2 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

Michael Lombardi: Start Josh Allen; 'Ridiculous' to play Nate Peterman because offensive line stinks

 

After Josh Allen struggled against the Cincinnati Bengals Sunday at New Era Field, some experts said the Buffalo Bills should pull the reins back a bit with the rookie gunslinger and turn to Nathan Peterman at quarterback to start the season.

 

Former NFL executive and Ringer podcast host Michael Lombardi said that's "ridiculous."

 

"To me the most ridiculous thing I ever heard is they should play Peterman because the line's not good," Lombardi said on Monday's episode of the "GM Street" podcast. "But the line isn't gonna be good for him either. ... Is the line gonna get any better because Nate Peterman's playing? The line stinks, it doesn't matter who plays quarterback.

 

 

[Domdab99]

If you're the Ravens, who would you rather play against, Allen or Peterman? Which QB scares you more?

 

Allen should start, assuming what we say on Sunday with the OL isn't going to be a normal thing.

 

Like others have said....if you play Allen, that's it - he's the QB. No turning back.

 

If the OL really is going to be the disaster we saw against Cincy, then I can certainly see starting Peterman for 4 games...then, when he inevitably lays an egg, Allen comes in and it won't matter what he does - he'll just be better than Peterman. 

 

If, however, Allen starts game 1 and goes 0-4....yikes. Not sure what happens then.

[jrober38]

7 minutes ago, Domdab99 said:

If you're the Ravens, who would you rather play against, Allen or Peterman? Which QB scares you more?

 

Allen should start, assuming what we say on Sunday with the OL isn't going to be a normal thing.

 

Like others have said....if you play Allen, that's it - he's the QB. No turning back.

 

If the OL really is going to be the disaster we saw against Cincy, then I can certainly see starting Peterman for 4 games...then, when he inevitably lays an egg, Allen comes in and it won't matter what he does - he'll just be better than Peterman. 

 

If, however, Allen starts game 1 and goes 0-4....yikes. Not sure what happens then.

 

Looking at the schedule, I think it would be a mistake to start Allen week 1. 

 

I think we'd wind up 0-4 and his confidence would be completely shot. 

 

He said it himself - the speed of playing the first stringers of the Bengals wasn't something he was prepared for. 

 

If we throw this guy to the wolves in week 1, I think it'll be a train wreck. 

 

If you start Peterman, and let him play poorly, then you can pull Allen once the schedule softens a bit and let him play against easier opponents the the majority of the remaining games coming at home. 

Edited August 29, 2018 by jrober38

[Doc Brown]

The first six games are brutal for any quarterback.  Five of the six teams finished in the top half of the league in total defense with the Vikings finishing 1st.  The Vikings, Chargers, Texans, Packers and Titans all arguably rank in the top 10 as far as defensive line talent goes. 

 

After last week and Allen's post game comments, I'd feel most comfortable with McCarron as every Peterman throw makes me fear a pick 6 and Allen isn't ready.  It's not an ideal situation no matter who we go with.  I think they start Peterman and if he plays poorly they'll go with McCarron until at least week 7.  Gives Allen time to sit and learn with his body intact.  

[Mat68]

Let Allen take his lumps and learn from them.  He showed poise under pressure.  A few miscues but has some negative that can be corrected.  Allen give Buffalo the best chance to win games.  Peterman's arm has 0 chance vs Baltimore, San Diego, and Minnesota.  I understand that is a gauntlet to throw a rookie into but what better way to learn.  Some good defense, good running game and Allen only needs to make a few plays for Buffalo to be competitive.  

[26CornerBlitz]

2 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

Let Allen take his lumps and learn from them.  He showed poise under pressure.  A few miscues but has some negative that can be corrected.  Allen give Buffalo the best chance to win games.  Peterman's arm has 0 chance vs Baltimore, San Diego, and Minnesota.  I understand that is a gauntlet to throw a rookie into but what better way to learn.  Some good defense, good running game and Allen only needs to make a few plays for Buffalo to be competitive.  

 

He'd probably do well against San Diego. 

[GoodHands15]

The thing about Nate. I just feel like he hit his ceiling. He looks great. Nice to see him do well. He looks much improved. He’ll prolly probably start.

 

If he had an arm to back up the way he can dissect a defense. He’d be good to go.

 

But then JA throws one of his photon torpedoes. And you picture that in the short game scheme Daboll ran for NP.

 

And you just want to see the kid play and not die. 

[Buffalo Ballin]

3 minutes ago, GoodHands15 said:

The thing about Nate. I just feel like he hit his ceiling. He looks great. Nice to see him do well. He looks much improved. He’ll prolly probably start.

 

If he had an arm to back up the way he can dissect a defense. He’d be good to go.

 

But then JA throws one of his photon torpedoes. And you picture that in the short game scheme Daboll ran for NP.

 

And you just want to see the kid play and not die. 

 

- Peterman is only 24 years old. He's a lot of untapped potential that is starting to emerge right now. I think he's going to be the franchise QB for the Buffalo Bills.

- He has an arm. That's why he completing 80 percent of his throws in the 3 preseason games thus far. Allen can only fantasize about that. Josh Allen can not do that at any point in his career.

- Josh Allen with photon torpedoes? Cool. But he's not accurate. Even Favre had to dial it down. If Josh Allen doesn't improve his IQ for the game then he'll be another camp arm.

[GoodHands15]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo Ballin said:

 

- Peterman is only 24 years old. He's a lot of untapped potential that is starting to emerge right now. I think he's going to be the franchise QB for the Buffalo Bills.

- He has an arm. That's why he completing 80 percent of his throws in the 3 preseason games thus far. Allen can only fantasize about that. Josh Allen can not do that at any point in his career.

- Josh Allen with photon torpedoes? Cool. But he's not accurate. Even Favre had to dial it down. If Josh Allen doesn't improve his IQ for the game then he'll be another camp arm.

Well that was negative

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, Buffalo Ballin said:

 

- Peterman is only 24 years old. He's a lot of untapped potential that is starting to emerge right now. I think he's going to be the franchise QB for the Buffalo Bills.

- He has an arm. That's why he completing 80 percent of his throws in the 3 preseason games thus far. Allen can only fantasize about that. Josh Allen can not do that at any point in his career.

- Josh Allen with photon torpedoes? Cool. But he's not accurate. Even Favre had to dial it down. If Josh Allen doesn't improve his IQ for the game then he'll be another camp arm.

 

Here we go again with preseason stats as if they transfer or project to regular season success.  The top 5 preseason passers thus far are Nate Sudfeld, Chase Daniel, Tyler Bray, Peterman, and Blake Bortles.  They must be franchise QBs too.