Cover 1: Aaron Quinn's "Closing Arguments" Case for Starting Allen

[Jerome007]

Safe to say, any sane person that is a Bills fan, Bills as in the TEAM, will agree with whatever the coaching staff decides, as there are really no clear cut decisions here. All have pros and cons whatever way they go! Impossible to predict the outcome, whoever is named the starting QB. Unless Nate/AJ is the starter and keeps on winning, we will see Allen this year if not on game 1. 

 

 

Edited August 28, 2018 by Jerome007

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

What’s he going to learn from the bench?

 

The only way the game slows down for him is to get on the field and go through the pain a la Aikman and Manning. 

[KauaiBuffaloSports]

4 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Do you actually think those numbers realistically translate to regular season football?

Maybe they won't but I would bet on the guy who proved he could do it in preseason rather than a player that has been inconsistent and hoping that he will show up when the games count. Allen is the fancy new toy but he should not start yet

[Sky Diver]

1 minute ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

What’s he going to learn from the bench?

 

The only way the game slows down for him is to get on the field and go through the pain a la Aikman and Manning. 

 

Aikman and Manning played in two big time college programs.

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, KauaiBillsRascals said:

Maybe they won't but I would bet on the guy who proved he could do it in preseason rather than a player that has been inconsistent and hoping that he will show up when the games count. Allen is the fancy new toy but he should not start yet

 

Preseason is a different animal and he played just two series against 1st team defenses in week 1 against the Panthers.  The real test comes in the regular season.  We'll see how it plays out. 

[Figster]

8 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

That was a tough spot for him tho. Plus conditions were horrible.

Big Ben went 18 - 31 229 yards in rainy conditions.

 

McCarron brought the team back from 15 - 0 down with 16 unanswered points in the 4th quarter that should have sealed the win.

 

 

[Heitz]

I'm back and forth on this one - I'd like to see Allen start, but feel that Peterman is probably more ready and has earned it with his work and performance this pre-season.  

 

That said, as someone pointed out, how long is Allen really going to be on the bench?  Do we really need to sit him for 4 games, to bring him in for the rest of the season?

 

Also, I've read the "QB will get ruined" argument quite a bit, but most of the pundits on NFLN, Sirius NFL, etc have said "If you have a QB that's going to get ruined in the first few games of his pro career, you don't have a Franchise QB." and honestly, I agree.   If the guy is so weak he's going to slink at the first few signs of pressure, pain, or confusion, he's probably not the guy...

 

Soooo, let's start someone..?  

[Soda Popinski]

6 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

 

Aikman and Manning played in two big time college programs.

There are examples on both sides.   Roethlisburger didn't, he played at a small school, as did Wentz.   Goff sat for half his rookie year and probably shouldn't have played at all he looked terrible in 2016.   

 

Rodgers sat for what 2 years?  3?   Marino was an NFL QB when he got off the plane in Miami.   So was Russel wilson in Seattle.  

 

It's all the individual combined with the situation.    It's not one formula.  

[Heitz]

5 minutes ago, Figster said:

Big Ben went 18 - 31 229 yards in rainy conditions.

 

McCarron brought the team back from 15 - 0 down with 16 unanswered points in the 4th quarter that should have sealed the win.

 

But if Dalton was in the game, the D would have held!

[Mark92]

12 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

What’s he going to learn from the bench?

 

The only way the game slows down for him is to get on the field and go through the pain a la Aikman and Manning. 

He will learn what it looks like to get destroyed behind a bad O line.  

[BuffaloHokie13]

8 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

Preseason is a different animal and he played just two series against 1st team defenses in week 1 against the Panthers.  The real test comes in the regular season.  We'll see how it plays out. 

Did either Short or Poe play in that game or did they get rest days?

[HappyDays]

Uh oh. This thread mentions an Alabama player. You all know what that means.

 

[Prickly Pete]

2 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

Closing Arguments: A Case for why the Bills Should Start Josh Allen

….

 

Natural Ability

Progress

Keeping His Cool

Best Chance to Win

 

 

 

Don't worry, Peterman will be exposed very quickly during the regular season.

 

 

[eball]

20 minutes ago, KauaiBillsRascals said:

I think the clear choice to start the season is Peterman. This preseason he has an 80% completion percentage, 3 TDs, 1 Int, and a 124.7 QB rating. Those numbers alone warrant him to start. I want Allen to be the man as much as anyone but there is no arguing these statistics. Each QB on the roster has had a chance to start and has been given an equal amount of preseason reps so these statistics are comparable. Plus Peterman has the release to handle a shaky oline, while the game has not slowed down enough for Allen yet. I think this is a clear choice. Peterman may not pan out but his stats clearly show that he deserves to start Week 1.  

 

Oh geez.  I don't really care who starts but this is just nonsense.  If anything you could argue that McD slanted the competition to favor Peterman in that he took his 1st team preseason reps in the 1st game against a depleted Panthers D.  Both McCarron and Allen were thrown to the wolves against the fronts of Cleveland and Cinci.  Allen got, by far, the fewest 1st team reps all summer in practice.  The statistics don't mean a thing -- it's about how the coaches feel each guy processed what was in front of him and who gives them the best chance to win vs. Baltimore.  You can't say Peterman "clearly" fits that bill -- at least not if you're using his preseason stats as your primary argument.

[26CornerBlitz]

6 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Did either Short or Poe play in that game or did they get rest days?

 

I'd have to go back and check, but IIRC there were starting secondary players out. 

[BuffaloHokie13]

Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

I'd have to go back and check, but IIRC there were starting secondary players out. 

Neither one has any recorded stats during the game. Just curious if that's impacting our initial impression of the OL that game.

[jrober38]

The only thing Allen has going for him is natural ability. 

 

The rest isn't good enough yet. 

[ColoradoBills]

At the start of next season with JA fixed as the starter, will it matter is he started 16 or 15 games from the 2018 season?

 

I am admitting that I never would of believed that Peterman would of played as well as he has during preseason.

I know his weaknesses but he has performed.

 

There a lot of good reasons from both sides of the Allen/Peterman starting debate.

 

If nothing has changed after Thursday game I say give Peterman the start in Baltimore.

McDermott can easily justify his play in making that decision.

 

With so many question marks from bad OL play, penalties up the wazoo, and what WRs should start after KB,  let

Peterman be the "canary in the coal mine" for the 1st game.

 

Go forward with a decision AFTER the 1st game.

[DuckyBoys]

I figure Peterman starts. Coaching staff seems to have some hard on for Nate.  Think its a win/win if he goes out there day 1  He does well fantastic, Josh can sit back and soak it up on the sideline.  If Nate struggles we'll see Josh Allen soon anyway.  I just dont want the Bills to start Josh Allen and pull him for Peterman or worse AJ.  Once they make the decision to go with Allen that's it  Don't go back and forth and kill any chance the guy has.  Don't turn it into Losman/Edwards part Two

[KauaiBuffaloSports]

3 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Oh geez.  I don't really care who starts but this is just nonsense.  If anything you could argue that McD slanted the competition to favor Peterman in that he took his 1st team preseason reps in the 1st game against a depleted Panthers D.  Both McCarron and Allen were thrown to the wolves against the fronts of Cleveland and Cinci.  Allen got, by far, the fewest 1st team reps all summer in practice.  The statistics don't mean a thing -- it's about how the coaches feel each guy processed what was in front of him and who gives them the best chance to win vs. Baltimore.  You can't say Peterman "clearly" fits that bill -- at least not if you're using his preseason stats as your primary argument.

 

Sure the fronts of Cleveland and Cinci were stronger than the Panthers D when we played them but these stats provide something to gauge these QBs by. I have not seen any of the summer practices and don't know which QB got more reps. As for the eye test, I can see is that Peterman goes through his progressions quickly, he shows a lot of touch on his passes (sometimes too much and it gets intercepted), has good anticipation, isn't afraid to push the ball downfield, and is only in his second year. Allen has a great arm, great athleticism, great feel for the pocket but seems to need time to have better anticipation and time to learn the playbook more. I would not be surprised if Peterman doesn't pan out and Allen is starting by week 5 but right now I think Peterman.

 

I haven't seen enough of AJ yet

[Victory Formation]

And when Allen goes through growing pains fans will clamor for Peterman, great way to undermine your rookie.

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, NewDayBills said:

And when Allen goes through growing pains fans will clamor for Peterman, great way to undermine your rookie.

 

 As if McDermott and the coaches would give a hoot.  It won't have even one scintilla of an impact. 

[Victory Formation]

Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

 As if McDermott and the coaches would give a hoot.  It won't have even one scintilla of an impact. 

Yeah, 70,000 fans booing Allen at once won't have an impact.

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, NewDayBills said:

Yeah, 70,000 fans booing Allen at once won't have an impact.

 

Fans have a better understanding than you believe.   

[BuffaloHokie13]

3 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

And when Allen goes through growing pains fans will clamor for Peterman, great way to undermine your rookie.

There has never been, and will never be, a time when I clamor for Peterman.*

 

*Unless it's for an opposing team

[Victory Formation]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Fans have a better understanding than you believe.   

Nope, they don't. We'll have a bunch of fat drunken tough guys out there being idiots.

 

You let the game slows down for Allen first, then put him out there. If Peterman sucks Allen will be in in no time. Put him in now and it's going to be a David Carr situation.

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, NewDayBills said:

Nope, they don't. We'll have a bunch of fat drunken tough guys out there being idiots.

 

You let the game slows down for Allen first, then put him out there. If Peterman sucks Allen will be in in no time. Put him in now and it's going to be a David Carr situation.

 

At any rate, the team isn't worried about what fans think.  If they believe it's best for Allen to sit to start the season, he will.  If they think he can handle the situation, then he'll play.  Fans aren't any part of the consideration. 

 

Great! More David Carr Cliche talk.  

[Victory Formation]

2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

At any rate, the team isn't worried about what fans think.  If they believe it's best for Allen to sit to start the season, he will.  If they think he can handle the situation, then he'll play.  Fans aren't any part of the consideration. 

 

Great! More David Carr Cliche talk.  

Peterman played better, I want to win. 

[1st Ammendment NoMas]

I still can't figure out why we didn't take a shot at Bridgewater.  His odds to start here would have been way better than NY with McCown and a top draft pick coming. Why the Bills reached for McCarron when Teddy was chomping at the bit for an opportunity are beyond me. He fits the process, is a team player, has overcome adversity and is a damn good QB.  

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

34 minutes ago, Mark92 said:

He will learn what it looks like to get destroyed behind a bad O line.  

 

Or how to get rid of it faster so he doesn’t. 

[ColoradoBills]

6 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Fans have a better understanding than you believe.   

 

You're right and they were already booing horrible OL play.

I am truly awaiting what the OL will look like when DC's are game planning stunts and 5 man rushes.

Don't name Peterman the "starter" just let him start the 1st game.

That decision can easily be made and explained by McDermott.

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

15 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

And when Allen goes through growing pains fans will clamor for Peterman, great way to undermine your rookie.

 

Fair point. The guaranteed way to get the fans clamoring for Allen is to start Peterman vs Ravens, San Diego and minny. 

 

Im guessing his three game total of 400 yards passing, 10 ints(2 pick 6s), 2 TDs, 3 fumbles, 12 sacks and a concussion. 

[Victory Formation]

5 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

Or how to get rid of it faster so he doesn’t. 

I question how much of the playbook Allen has down, timing is off, awareness is off, lack of anticipation, lack of feel for where his receivers are at.

[quinnearlysghost88]

Sometimes I confuse Peterman lowlights with Jeff Tuel lowlights. And, really, what's the difference at this point. Peterman could have EASILY thrown that 99 yard pick six vs KC. In fact, did he? You had to think for a second. 

 

 

Jeff Tuel (allegedly) and most probably Nathan Peterman throwing a 99 yard INT. 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/kansas-city-chiefs/0ap2000000275203/Chiefs-intercept-Jeff-Tuel-pass

Edited August 28, 2018 by quinnearlysghost88

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

I question how much of the playbook Allen has down, timing is off, awareness is off, lack of anticipation, lack of feel for where his receivers are at.

 

Probably so. Peterman definitely has the edge there. I just think under pressure he’s going to fold like a lawn chair.

 

He looks panicked when the pressure heats up.

 

Saw evidence of that even gm1 the preseason v panthers and obviously in all his appearances last year. 

 

There are some throws he just can never try to make... 

 

Allen seemed unfazed. 

[Victory Formation]

2 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

Probably so. Peterman definitely has the edge there. I just think under pressure he’s going to fold like a lawn chair.

 

He looks panicked when the pressure heats up.

 

Saw evidence of that even gm1 the preseason v panthers and obviously in all his appearances last year. 

 

There are some throws he just can never try to make... 

 

Allen seemed unfazed. 

I think Allen will be an elite QB, I liked him and Baker Mayfield the most in the draft, I am not anti Allen, he was the right pick, I'm just causious that's all, the longer we hold him back the better, I'm a huge believer in sitting rookie QBs.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 minute ago, NewDayBills said:

I think Allen will be an elite QB, I liked him and Baker Mayfield the most in the draft, I am not anti Allen, he was the right pick, I'm just causious that's all, the longer we hold him back the better, I'm a huge believer in sitting rookie QBs.

 

I guess the key is that truly understanding readiness is difficult. 

 

Ah well.. it may just be that our season is like San Francisco’s was last year... sort of

 

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

This fact has not prevented many posters from claiming he has excelled against "1's, 2's and 3's".... or even "he has played well against other teams 1's in every game".

Posters?   

How about the head coach?

 

I posted and quoted his words directly from the Bill website. 

 

 

 

[K-9]

44 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

At any rate, the team isn't worried about what fans think.  If they believe it's best for Allen to sit to start the season, he will.  If they think he can handle the situation, then he'll play.  Fans aren't any part of the consideration. 

 

Great! More David Carr Cliche talk.  

Why is that cliche talk vs. a legitimate concern? No QB has ever been sacked more in a season that Carr was in his rookie season. The beating he took negatively impacted his development moving forward. I would argue that the high number of sacks taken over the course of his first four years ruined any chance he had at establishing himself as the pocket passer he was drafted to be. He was a skittish wreck half the time. And for good reason. 

[BuffaloHokie13]

3 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Posters?   

How about the head coach?

 

I posted and quoted his words directly from the Bill website. 

Did McD reference the opponents? I thought he simply said Peterman had been consistent.