Is a trade looming?

[GreggTX]

Forget Mack for now. We need  a serious influx of pass protection. I won't beat that point to death. If you don't believe it by now, you never will

 

I don't see much talent out there in FA. What other option is there? Our QB's are in for a long season if this isn't addressed. They thought they could sit tight for a year until we get some cap space, but now I'm not so sure? Am I overreacting?

 

Your thoughts?

Edited August 27, 2018 by GreggTX

[Boatdrinks]

Is there a stud OT available ?

Edited August 27, 2018 by Boatdrinks

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, GreggTX said:

And what, if anything, should he offer?

 

What do you have in mind? 

[Domdab99]

They're not going to trade for an OLman. I certainly hope they pick up someone who gets cut, tho.

[reddogblitz]

1 minute ago, Domdab99 said:

They're not going to trade for an OLman. I certainly hope they pick up someone who gets cut, tho.

 

any ideas as to who?

[Domdab99]

1 minute ago, reddogblitz said:

 

any ideas as to who?

 

not until someone gets cut!

[GreggTX]

1 minute ago, Domdab99 said:

They're not going to trade for an OLman. I certainly hope they pick up someone who gets cut, tho.

You may be right, but I bet Beane will at least make some calls and perhaps be a little more generous. JJ Watt must be hungry to play against us. Marcell too.

2 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

any ideas as to who?

Someone they'd have to offer too much for, but this is really bad.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

21 minutes ago, GreggTX said:

Forget Mack for now. We need  a serious influx of pass protection. I won't beat that point to death. If you don't believe it by now, you never will

 

I don't see much talent out there in FA. What other option is there? Our QB's are in for a long season if this isn't addressed. They thought they could sit tight for a year until we get some cap space, but now I'm not so sure? Am I overreacting?

 

Your thoughts?

 

Most teams don't carry spare OL talent.  A team that has a rookie OLman who has come along faster than expected, is still not likely to want to trade off the vet he's replacing (and if the vet is so good, why is he being replaced?) until the rookie is proven in regular-season games.

[GreggTX]

21 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Is there a stud OT available ?

I guess that depends what you're willing to give up.

[purple haze]

14 minutes ago, Domdab99 said:

They're not going to trade for an OLman. I certainly hope they pick up someone who gets cut, tho.

Teams cut projects or overpriced, under performing vets.  There is no definitive help coming.  Even if they pick up a guy off the street, he's likely to not be much better and he won't know the system.  McD better get what they have playing better or the goose is cooked.

Edited August 27, 2018 by purple haze

[GreggTX]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Most teams don't carry spare OL talent.  A team that has a rookie OLman who has come along faster than expected, is still not likely to want to trade off the vet he's replacing (and if the vet is so good, why is he being replaced?) until the rookie is proven in regular-season games.

Not in recent years anyways. I think they will eventually replace a couple guys with marginal talent. That's probably as good as it gets. You don't want to just change the names on the OL, but I expect that after watching more film of this nightmare, they will deem 1 or 2 guys as just not up to par with NFL level ability.

[JoPar_v2]

4 minutes ago, GreggTX said:

I guess that depends what you're willing to give up.

Nah not really. No team is going to trade a starting caliber lineman on the eve of the regular season.

1 minute ago, GreggTX said:

Not in recent years anyways. I think they will eventually replace a couple guys with marginal talent. That's probably as good as it gets. You don't want to just change the names on the OL, but I expect that after watching more film of this nightmare, they will deem 1 or 2 guys as just not up to par with NFL level ability.

So why did you start this thread and ask if you already know the answer?

[BigDingus]

15 minutes ago, GreggTX said:

We need  a serious influx of pass protection. I won't beat that point to death. If you don't believe it by now, you never will.

 

The board has been filled with those people. After losing Glenn, Incognito, and Woods, you'd think people would automatically realize that we were going to regress significantly...

But no, countless excuses & willfully ignorant posts always counter any discussion of the O-line issue, as people have convinced themselves that Josh Allen is just so good, the O-line won't even matter. 
 

As amazing as it was to break the playoff drought last season, most of the board members get pissy if you even suggest that we're not going to repeat this year, or mentioning that Josh Allen hasn't suddenly overcome the huge issues he's had his entire playing career in a handful of preseason games against backups & one month of camp.... You can't WISH the Bills into success, no matter how much you want. And just because you want to see the shiny new 1st round QB so bad, that's no reason to rush him out there to get destroyed.

The Bills do not have a very good track record of developing QB's, nor do the fans have a good track record of supporting these guys for long. We send them into the meat grinder, spit em out the other side, call it a day & move on to the next one. Let's not risk ruining a potentially good thing with Allen unless we absolutely NEED him to play.

[thurst44]

22 minutes ago, GreggTX said:

Forget Mack for now. We need  a serious influx of pass protection. I won't beat that point to death. If you don't believe it by now, you never will

 

I don't see much talent out there in FA. What other option is there? Our QB's are in for a long season if this isn't addressed. They thought they could sit tight for a year until we get some cap space, but now I'm not so sure? Am I overreacting?

 

Your thoughts?

While the o-line was atrocious the last two games, I'm not sure how you could watch this game and not be even more inclined to want to get someone like Mack? We were getting zero pressure on the QB leading to our best aspect (the secondary) being picked apart. Also, we can fix two parts at once :). 

 

And, yes, I know you were just saying "forget Mack" as an expression, but Hap above makes a good point: it's unlikely anyone is parting with someone at this point. The best bet may be taking a shot on someone off the scrap heap (Joeckel or somebody), trying different combos (the mythic Teller, who i'd loved to have seen more of) or hoping that there is vast improvement in the next two weeks. Many teams have looked terrible in the pre-season...the Eagles lost 5-0 to the Browns for their third loss. It's not impossible that they play better in two weeks. 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Hey pro bowl talent is out there ... Ritchie Incognito!!!

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/offensive-line/available/

 

 

[GreggTX]

Just now, JoPar_v2 said:

Nah not really. No team is going to trade a starting caliber lineman on the eve of the regular season.

I suspect that there are a few backups that could win a starting job here, though.

[JoPar_v2]

Just now, GreggTX said:

I suspect that there are a few backups that could win a starting job here, though.

Cool so replace trash with more trash. Smart idea

[billieve420]

Honestly I wouldn’t care if they replaced every starter except Dawkins. Hopefully they are targeting teams with strong o-lines. Literally I would replace every backup except teller and put them on the 53 man roster with hopes they could replace the person in front of them at some point during the season.

[GreggTX]

2 minutes ago, BigDingus said:

 

The board has been filled with those people. After losing Glenn, Incognito, and Woods, you'd think people would automatically realize that we were going to regress significantly...

But no, countless excuses & willfully ignorant posts always counter any discussion of the O-line issue, as people have convinced themselves that Josh Allen is just so good, the O-line won't even matter. 
 

As amazing as it was to break the playoff drought last season, most of the board members get pissy if you even suggest that we're not going to repeat this year, or mentioning that Josh Allen hasn't suddenly overcome the huge issues he's had his entire playing career in a handful of preseason games against backups & one month of camp.... You can't WISH the Bills into success, no matter how much you want. And just because you want to see the shiny new 1st round QB so bad, that's no reason to rush him out there to get destroyed.

The Bills do not have a very good track record of developing QB's, nor do the fans have a good track record of supporting these guys for long. We send them into the meat grinder, spit em out the other side, call it a day & move on to the next one. Let's not risk ruining a potentially good thing with Allen unless we absolutely NEED him to play.

When you say they don't develop QB's well, I think that's on the coaches and we've had a lot of turnover there. I'm not sure the past is very relevant hto that point, but I won't argue with the rest.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

2 minutes ago, billieve420 said:

Honestly I wouldn’t care if they replaced every starter except Dawkins. Hopefully they are targeting teams with strong o-lines. Literally I would replace every backup except teller and put them on the 53 man roster with hopes they could replace the person in front of them at some point during the season.

 

I'm starting to wonder if our backups are better.

 

 

[Buffalo03]

I seriously think the olineman we have just aren't giving enough effort because it's preseason. People were saying the same thing last year and lots have been saying it year after year bur then when we got to the regular season it's nowhere near as bad as it looks. I think people are more overreacting than anything. Charles Clay has been a good tight end for us and today he drops a couple passes and people are talking about how horrible he is. Other people saying "this D is terrible". It's the same damn defense as last year give or take a few new bodies. Someone actually posted something earlier about how bad Brandon Beane is because he's given away a lot of our talent. Now granted, he has pretty much neglected the oline but calm down. Every year we hear " it's gonna be a ling season behind this oline" and every year it's not as bad as it looked in the preseason. Let's just see what happens when the season starts first

[GreggTX]

3 minutes ago, JoPar_v2 said:

Cool so replace trash with more trash. Smart idea

If they play better, why not? Why the attitude?

[JoPar_v2]

2 minutes ago, GreggTX said:

If they play better, why not? Why the attitude?

Again who are these hypothetical backup O linemsn who are going to “play better”? No attitude man you decided to start a thread and don’t want to discuss it? Can’t back up your random brain fart?

[thurst44]

Just now, BigDingus said:

 

The board has been filled with those people. After losing Glenn, Incognito, and Woods, you'd think people would automatically realize that we were going to regress significantly...

But no, countless excuses & willfully ignorant posts always counter any discussion of the O-line issue, as people have convinced themselves that Josh Allen is just so good, the O-line won't even matter. 
 

As amazing as it was to break the playoff drought last season, most of the board members get pissy if you even suggest that we're not going to repeat this year, or mentioning that Josh Allen hasn't suddenly overcome the huge issues he's had his entire playing career in a handful of preseason games against backups & one month of camp.... You can't WISH the Bills into success, no matter how much you want. And just because you want to see the shiny new 1st round QB so bad, that's no reason to rush him out there to get destroyed.

The Bills do not have a very good track record of developing QB's, nor do the fans have a good track record of supporting these guys for long. We send them into the meat grinder, spit em out the other side, call it a day & move on to the next one. Let's not risk ruining a potentially good thing with Allen unless we absolutely NEED him to play.

Let's see how they do in a real game. Also, last week Allen DID look good behind a disastrous line. My argument has been that we don't really know what we have, but at this point it's becoming clearer. By the way, why do people always accentuate the loss by adding Glenn, who did not play the majority of last year, while Dawkins played well in his rookie season. Dawkins had a rough game last week and did not play this week. 

 

The Bills o-line did not look great last pre-season either, so who knows. I'm not overly hopeful, but it's pre-season. 

 

Allen seems like someone who might actually benefit from the adversity. I could be wrong. I downright hated the pick at first. In any case, he didn't win the battle outright, so I can see an argument for each of the three, and hope the line gets it together (or they find a unit one way or another that works). Not sure what they can do about it now, but the future still looks bright despite a really sucky outing. This year...well, who knows? Who would have guessed they would go 4-2 with only losses coming to the Patriots after that historically bad 3-game stretch? Teams can turn it around quickly.

[Perry Turtle]

There's no calvary coming to help the Oline.  Time to improve the line was months ago; that time has passed.  There's no talented Olineman being put on the block like Mack.

 

The players have to improve, and the coaches have to adjust the scheme to make up for lack of talent.  

 

And if Mack is available, grab him up, because the Dline looks as bad as the Oline.

[GreggTX]

13 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

I seriously think the olineman we have just aren't giving enough effort because it's preseason. People were saying the same thing last year and lots have been saying it year after year bur then when we got to the regular season it's nowhere near as bad as it looks. I think people are more overreacting than anything. Charles Clay has been a good tight end for us and today he drops a couple passes and people are talking about how horrible he is. Other people saying "this D is terrible". It's the same damn defense as last year give or take a few new bodies. Someone actually posted something earlier about how bad Brandon Beane is because he's given away a lot of our talent. Now granted, he has pretty much neglected the oline but calm down. Every year we hear " it's gonna be a ling season behind this oline" and every year it's not as bad as it looked in the preseason. Let's just see what happens when the season starts first

Many teams have bad OL's now. The difference is that our OL struggled last year too. Then we lost 3 starters with several probowls between them and did nothing to upgrade those vacated spots. This isn't the same as "every year" by a longshot. I liken this to the year Brandon was GM and dismantled the OL and Trent, who'd played well up to that point, got his brains scrambled. I don't think this is going to be OK.

Edited August 27, 2018 by GreggTX

[JoPar_v2]

2 minutes ago, GreggTX said:

Many teams have bad OL's now. The difference is that our OL struggled last year too. Then we lost 3 starters with several probowls between them and did nothing to upgrade those vacated spots. This isn't the same as "every year" by a longshot. I liken this to the year Brandon was GM and dismantled the OL and Trent, who'd played well up to that point, got his brains scrambled. I don't think this is going to be OK.

Pff haha. Wasn’t trent edwards’ brains scrambled by adrian wilson on a safety blitz? Great comparison. You’re talking about the O line and bring up a hit that was most likely the RB’s responsibility to pick up the blitzing safety. Christ.

[GreggTX]

24 minutes ago, JoPar_v2 said:

Nah not really. No team is going to trade a starting caliber lineman on the eve of the regular season.

So why did you start this thread and ask if you already know the answer?

I gave an opinion. Then I asked others to share theirs. Standard operating procedure. 

[ColoradoBills]

2 minutes ago, Perry Turtle said:

There's no calvary coming to help the Oline.  Time to improve the line was months ago; that time has passed.  There's no talented Olineman being put on the block like Mack.

 

The players have to improve, and the coaches have to adjust the scheme to make up for lack of talent.  

 

And if Mack is available, grab him up, because the Dline looks as bad as the Oline.

 

You're right about the cavalry.

As to the "scheme" thing that seems to be the flavor of the week to improve the OL production, that's easier said than done.

 

The guys in the other uniforms have coaches who will be "salivating" game planning against this OL.

Teams can scheme to protect a player who lacks experience/talent but this OL has a lot of weak links.

Even Dawkins will have challenges now that there is tape on him.

[GreggTX]

3 minutes ago, JoPar_v2 said:

Pff haha. Wasn’t trent edwards’ brains scrambled by adrian wilson on a safety blitz? Great comparison. You’re talking about the O line and bring up a hit that was most likely the RB’s responsibility to pick up the blitzing safety. Christ.

Calm down lol. Your arguments would be much more effective if you left the personal remarks out. 

[Boatdrinks]

16 minutes ago, GreggTX said:

Many teams have bad OL's now. The difference is that our OL struggled last year too. Then we lost 3 starters with several probowls between them and did nothing to upgrade those vacated spots. This isn't the same as "every year" by a longshot. I liken this to the year Brandon was GM and dismantled the OL and Trent, who'd played well up to that point, got his brains scrambled. I don't think this is going to be OK.

That OL was returned largely intact from the previous ( 2007) lineup. Including Jason Peters. 

[Ol Dirty B]

49 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Most teams don't carry spare OL talent.  A team that has a rookie OLman who has come along faster than expected, is still not likely to want to trade off the vet he's replacing (and if the vet is so good, why is he being replaced?) until the rookie is proven in regular-season games.

 

I mean except for this team apparently. They won't be fixing the Oline in a week it just doesn't work. These guys so many of you adore, are far from perfect. The line is a mess and the blame falls squarely on those two. I can't even hate on Castillo at this point. It's awful what he's working with.

 

Edit- just wanted to be clear, I didn't mean you specifically when I said so many of you adore. I just see a lot of blind faith in this fan base right now

Edited August 27, 2018 by Ol Dirty B

[GreggTX]

23 minutes ago, JoPar_v2 said:

Again who are these hypothetical backup O linemsn who are going to “play better”? No attitude man you decided to start a thread and don’t want to discuss it? Can’t back up your random brain fart?

Right. I don't want to discuss it. That's why I'm discussing it so much.

[JoPar_v2]

1 minute ago, GreggTX said:

Right. I don't want to discuss it. That's why I'm discussing it so much.

Cool so how bout you throw out a name? A trade target? And what he would cost. All i am hearing is generalities out of you.

[ColoradoBills]

9 minutes ago, GreggTX said:

I gave an opinion. Then I asked others to share theirs. Standard operating procedure. 

 

It's a good question/thread GreggTX.  Don't let other make you bite.

 

Bottom line is yes, some things could be done.  Bills got some money left and they could recapture a little more by releasing a guy like Miller/Vlad.

They could restructure a guy like Hyde and free up a little more $'s, although I'm not big on "restructuring".

 

One thing to consider is that even though Bills may want to pick up a guy or two remember there is always other teams looking

to make a move to shore up their lines too.

 

Bad thing is that OL works as a unit and it takes a little time for even a vet to settle in.

 

[reddogblitz]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

I'm starting to wonder if our backups are better.

 

 

 

Me too. In all 3 pre season games, the starting QB has been mortalized.  Second guy in seems to get better protection.

[jr1]

the only OL available are medical trainwrecks

[BisonMan]

Serious question:

 

Is our O-Line terrible mostly because they are (1) physically overmatched or(2)  technically challenged (don’t know basic skills) or are (3) making mental mistakes?

 

If it’s number 1, I’d say the only solution is new blood...which is highly unlikely for this season.

If it’s number 2, we’ve had the same O-Line coach for 2 years and he still doesn’t have basic techniques down? Fire him!

If it’s number 3, there is an overall problem with the coaching staff that goes beyond the O-line coach and likely carries across multiple position groups. If that’s it, it’s on McD.

 

I think it’s mostly (1) at this point and that is causing the other issues (2) and (3) because guys are overmatched and getting ahead of themselves and not using good technique and making mental errors. 

 

A lot of the sacks I saw from the last couple of games looked like mental errors by various players failing to pick up their proper assignments. In particular, the backs (mostly Murphy) missed unblocked players. Shady and Ivory would fix that just by playing more. 

EdW

[davefan66]

Not sure the line is as bad as they loooked.  I know we lost Woods and Incognito.  Don’t count Glenn as he was out most of last year.

 

There were some jailbreaks on Allen, but he also held the ball a bit.  Also, not sure how much game planning the team did.  Would they have played better without generic blocking schemes?

 

lastly, Castillo has a track record of being a poor o-line coach, so there’s room for an upgrade there.

[Fadingpain]

3 hours ago, BigDingus said:

 

The board has been filled with those people. After losing Glenn, Incognito, and Woods, you'd think people would automatically realize that we were going to regress significantly...

But no, countless excuses & willfully ignorant posts always counter any discussion of the O-line issue, as people have convinced themselves that Josh Allen is just so good, the O-line won't even matter. 
 

As amazing as it was to break the playoff drought last season, most of the board members get pissy if you even suggest that we're not going to repeat this year, or mentioning that Josh Allen hasn't suddenly overcome the huge issues he's had his entire playing career in a handful of preseason games against backups & one month of camp.... You can't WISH the Bills into success, no matter how much you want. And just because you want to see the shiny new 1st round QB so bad, that's no reason to rush him out there to get destroyed.

The Bills do not have a very good track record of developing QB's, nor do the fans have a good track record of supporting these guys for long. We send them into the meat grinder, spit em out the other side, call it a day & move on to the next one. Let's not risk ruining a potentially good thing with Allen unless we absolutely NEED him to play.

Agree with everything you are writing here, except the bit at the end about "ruining" Allen if played too early.

 

IMO that is a myth and it doesn't actually happen.  He learns by playing and only by playing.  Our future for the next while is tied to his ass, so might as well get him out there and see what he can do.