NEW NARRATIVE ON TYROD

[DasNootz]

18 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't think preseason means that much.

 

That said:  9.3 ypa isn't dink-n-dunk territory.  The best teams in the NFL last season had just over 8 ypa, Saints and Chiefs.

9.3 YPC on 71.4% completion percentage is 6.6YPA (vs. 1st string)

13.96 YPC on 57.8% completion percentage is 8.1 YPA (vs 2nd and 3rd string)

 

Bottom line - Tyrod is best for Cleveland this year... playing the same role he did last year for us.  The defense will play well, and he won't lose them games.  Baker is better long term, but will cost them games with turnovers if he plays this season.

Edited August 24, 2018 by DasNootz

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just now, DasNootz said:

9.3 YPC on 71.4% completion percentage is 6.6YPA (vs. 1st string)

13.96 YPC on 57.8% completion percentage is 8.1 YPA (vs 2nd and 3rd string)

 

I sit corrected.  That is pretty dink-n-dunk.  Browns not got a speedster who gets open?

[Woodman19]

3 minutes ago, MJS said:

 

The standard I held for him is throwing for more than 1 TD a game, AND over 200 yards occasionally. That seems like a pretty low standard to me.

Well in fairness to Tyrod, that is perfection to him.

[SouthNYfan]

16 minutes ago, 87168 said:

you sound scorned. someone take your place on the podium?

 

Nah, I didn't even qualify.

 

(in case you missed it, it was a reference to 29 years of fanhood drinking the tyrod koolaid by touting he was the "best qb of the drought" era, as if it was that high of a bar to reach)

[MJS]

7 minutes ago, Woodman19 said:

Well in fairness to Tyrod, that is perfection to him.

 

On NFL.com they list Tyrod Taylor as the Bills QB in the game preview for the preseason games, showing last year's stats.

 

Under 3,000 yards passing and 14 TD's!! And people think he is a franchise QB? That level of production is atrocious.

 

He starter quality, but only for the bottom 2 or 3 teams in the NFL, which is why he is currently playing for the Browns.

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, MJS said:

 

On NFL.com they list Tyrod Taylor as the Bills QB in the game preview for the preseason games, showing last year's stats.

 

Under 3,000 yards passing and 14 TD's!! And people think he is a franchise QB? That level of production is atrocious.

 

He starter quality, but only for the bottom 2 or 3 teams in the NFL, which is why he is currently playing for the Browns.

 

There is literally no one who believes this. 

[starrymessenger]

10 minutes ago, DasNootz said:

9.3 YPC on 71.4% completion percentage is 6.6YPA (vs. 1st string)

13.96 YPC on 57.8% completion percentage is 8.1 YPA (vs 2nd and 3rd string)

 

Bottom line - Tyrod is best for Cleveland this year... playing the same role he did last year for us.  The defense will play well, and he won't lose them games.  Baker is better long term, but will cost them games with turnovers if he plays this season.

 

JMO but I think Baker will be starting sooner rather than later this year. I remember coach Jackson in Oakland when he had Trent Edwards. After Trent, true to form, threw a four yard out on third and long Hue blew a gasket, went on a rant and publicly excoriated him on the sidelines. Unless Tyrod is able to move that offence down the field given the weapons he has to work with an irresistable tsunami of negative sentiment will sweep Tyrod off the field and onto the bench. 

[MJS]

16 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

There is literally no one who believes this. 

 

The national media does.

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, MJS said:

 

The national media does.

 

Mid to low end starter is what I have always seen. Give me one, just one member of this national media who believes he's a franchise level QB. 

[Wagon Circler]

2 hours ago, starrymessenger said:

Tyrod's a QB impersonator. But at least he is really good at that. Fooled Hue Jackson (though that's apparently easy to do).  Also was LMAO at Landry looking shocked at no PI on one uncatchable ball after another. 

Really can't fathom the network game crews. Can they really be that clueless or is everything scripted beforehand. 

I guess Romo never got the message. Like that guy.

It's all scripted beforehand by the league office.

Cleveland is on Hard Knocks.

Cleveland is great.

Tyrod is great. Why did we hold him back?

Mayfield is great too.

Joe "Shill" Buck must have mentioned Hard Knocks 5 times during the broadcast. And isn't Greg Williams a fun guy?

Edited August 24, 2018 by Wagon Circler

[HeHateMe]

3 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Mid to low end starter is what I have always seen. Give me one, just one member of this national media who believes he's a franchise level QB. 

 

National media thinks Buffalo did him wrong after he "led" us to the playoffs.  They never watch Bills games so they think he is way better than he is.  That playoff game should have been all they needed but they didn't watch that either.  

 

I'm not sure if they say "Franchise QB" but they say he's a "Good starter in this league".  All of the ESPN shows say this.

 

He is trash.

Edited August 24, 2018 by HeHateMe

[ngbills]

2 hours ago, BillsInWilmingtonNC said:

Through 3 Weeks of Preseason

 

Tyrod Taylor averaging 9.3 yards per completion (71.4 completion pct.)

Baker Mayfield averaging 13.96 yards per completion (57.8 completion pct.)

 

What I take away from this is that it has nothing to do with who is calling the plays and everything to do with who is executing the plays.  Stats do not always give an accurate picture of what is happening, but these most definitely do.  Baker is trying to complete more difficult passes, pushing the ball down the field (Hence why his completion pct. is lower), while Tyrod continues to do Tyrod things, and takes way too many dump off throws underneath for 3 and 4 yards, especially when its 3rd and 10.

 

Really? Watch this. Not pretty. And FYI Tyrod's numbers look about the same as Tom Brady this preseason for whatever that means. 

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000950437/Every-Baker-Mayfield-touch-Preseason-Week-3

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000950445/Every-Tyrod-Taylor-touch-Preseason-Week-3

 

 

[26CornerBlitz]

52 minutes ago, HeHateMe said:

 

National media thinks Buffalo did him wrong after he "led" us to the playoffs.  They never watch Bills games so they think he is way better than he is.  That playoff game should have been all they needed but they didn't watch that either.  

 

I'm not sure if they say "Franchise QB" but they say he's a "Good starter in this league".  All of the ESPN shows say this.

 

He is trash.

 

You like so many others go too far with this.   

[blacklabel]

Well, technically what they're saying is true, some of it, anyway. Yes, he did play under two defensive-minded coaches... but when the time came to go out there and cut it loose, dude could rarely rise to the occasion. Had what, one, maybe two 300 yard games over his three seasons here? I'm not really all about the stats, but with the way the league is geared today to favor the passing game, you'd think he could've had a couple more big games like that. And what's his record when he had to throw it over 30 times in a game? Like, 2 and 12 or something?

 

I think what you see is what you get with Tyrod. He's a hard guy to dislike because he's a true pro, very respectable and respected by teammates, handles adversity well, works his tail off, etc. But I think he's hit his ceiling. He's a "see it, throw it" passer so he can't really throw with anticipation or throw a receiver open, or throw to a spot that the receiver is supposed to get to. He has to see the guy open before pulling the trigger. This is why his time from snap to throw was the longest in the league. On the positive side, he will dazzle you when he somehow escapes what looks like a sure-thing sack and either hits a target for a nice gain or takes off and picks up 20 yards with his legs. And he typically throws a nice deep ball, although he seems to wait just a tick too long to throw it and when he does, a lot of times his man has to slow up to catch it. On the negative side, dude is just too careful with the ball. Yeah, it's great not to turn it over but his hesitance to throw into tight windows or toss up a 50/50 ball and let his receivers try to make a play can drive you nuts. A QB has to be able to take those risks sometimes. And now the guy has Todd Haley as his OC? Haley worked with Big Ben who has the nads to sling it anywhere. I wonder if Haley is gonna try to instill a little bit of that with Tyrod, maybe tell him to take some more chances and whatnot. 

 

Either way... Browns fans will be chanting for Mayfield by halftime of their season opener.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

He is what I said he is.   

 

Not good enough of a passing QB to be a long term starter if there’s another option.  

[wppete]

Tyrod looked like Tyrod yesterday. Im happy he is not our QB anymore. I wish him all the luck in Cleveland but that Bakers team.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

I don't think we ever built an offense around him.  I don't think we justifiably should - but i don't think we ever built one either. 

 

The run game built around zone read, shotgun draws and pistol options, and the pass game around RPOs, screens, and rollouts.  There would need to be a ton of presnap motion for him to identify coverages, a ton of tempo, and college style signals to change plays at the line of scrimmage.  Yes - I'm aware this is a college style offense.  I just think that's where he would have had more success.  

 

Do i think it would've been great?  No.  But i think we likely have a better offense than we did last year.

[wppete]

Tyrod threw for 56 yards in this game! Cmon lets get serious here, he is not a starter.

 

 

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, wppete said:

Tyrod threw for 56 yards in this game! Cmon lets get serious here, he is not a starter.

 

 

 

You are so right.  That was the only game of his career. 

 

At any rate...we're on to 2018 and the Josh Allen era!

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

3 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

You are so right.  That was the only game of his career. 

 

At any rate...we're on to 2018 and the Josh Allen era!

The only game in his career?

 

TT had 3 games in 4 with a QB rating of under 45.   

 

Thats is why we got the debacle that was the Chargers game!!!!

 

you could at least try to be honest!

[BillsBytheBay]

16 hours ago, Wagon Circler said:

I heard it today on NFL network and just now from Joe Buck.

"He played under two defensive minded coaches and never had an opportunity to cut it loose."

OMG!

This is Cleveland propaganda. Always amazing to me how little the national media knows.

I like Tyrod.  I always have but he is what he is.  Buck is nuts to think otherwise.  If they play great D, and have playmakers around him he will be more than decent.  But that's all.  Good not great.  He's not about to turn some corner and become a great pocket passer.  

[BuffaloHokie13]

2 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

The only game in his career?

 

TT had 3 games in 4 with a QB rating of under 45.   

 

Thats is why we got the debacle that was the Chargers game!!!!

 

you could at least try to be honest!

The point was that using 1 game as a sample size is moronic.

 

Let's look at the 2015 game against Houston, a solid defense. He passed for 3 TDs and just over 10 YPA and also ran for another TD. He's clearly a hall of famer, right?  /s

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, BuffaloHokie13 said:

The point was that using 1 game as a sample size is moronic.

 

Let's look at the 2015 game against Houston, a solid defense. He passed for 3 TDs and just over 10 YPA and also ran for another TD. He's clearly a hall of famer, right?  /s

 

Save your keystrokes.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, MJS said:

 

The national media does.

 

Negative, they think he is an improvement on what the Browns have had - a functional NFL QB who might be better than he's showed to date with the right coaching and pieces around him. 

And they could be right, though in my view it remainst TBD whether or not Hue J. and Haley constitute the right coaching and the Browns roster "right pieces"

 

[BuffaloHokie13]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Save your keystrokes.

It's funny, because if Tyrod was half as bad as some want to make him out to be they wouldn't need to use tiny sample sizes or misrepresentations of the stats that encompass his production as a starter. When compared to the field over the same time-span the majority of his stats are definitively average with a few being elite and some being near the bottom of starters.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

22 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

He is what I said he is.   

 

Not good enough of a passing QB to be a long term starter if there’s another option.  

 

And that's fair

[LABILLBACKER]

The new narrative on the word narrative is that it's over used. TaRod will always be that safe scrambling 92 qbr guy. He'll never win you a game when trailing early in the 4th quarter. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

11 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

The point was that using 1 game as a sample size is moronic.

 

Let's look at the 2015 game against Houston, a solid defense. He passed for 3 TDs and just over 10 YPA and also ran for another TD. He's clearly a hall of famer, right?  /s

 

One game is not a proper sample size?

Did I read that right?

 

wait are we talking about TT or NP?

 

LOL

 

Two great games out of 16 is also a small sample size.  

 

The narrative was written and cast in stone after TT’s first season as a starter.  

[Teddy KGB]

16 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Save your keystrokes.

 

Giants Bills 2015

Patriots Bills 2015 

Redskins Bills 2015 

Bills Ravens 2016 Woooooof 

Bills Fins 2016 

Pats Bills 2016 

Bills Bengals 2016

Bills Raiders 2016 

Bills Steelers 2016 

Bills Panthers 2017

Bills Bengals 2017 

Bills Pats 2017 

Bills Pats 2017 

Bills Saints 2017 

Bills Jags 2017 

 

One game huh ?     Try to stay off the fake news. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 24, 2018 by Teddy KGB

[BuffaloHokie13]

Just now, ShadyBillsFan said:

One game is not a proper sample size?

Did I read that right?

 

wait are we talking about TT or NP?

 

LOL

Wow, you're comprehension is as impeccable as ever! NP's entire career is 52 pass attempts. That's the entire sample! Tyrod's is 1,236. He had 18 attempts in the Saints game. That's 1.5% of his career. Using that as the sample is being willfully ignorant. It's literally a smaller sample of his career than trying to use a single pass attempt from Peterman.

 

[26CornerBlitz]

12 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

It's funny, because if Tyrod was half as bad as some want to make him out to be they wouldn't need to use tiny sample sizes or misrepresentations of the stats that encompass his production as a starter. When compared to the field over the same time-span the majority of his stats are definitively average with a few being elite and some being near the bottom of starters.

 

He remains a middling QB who can only get a team so far if he's supported by a strong run game and defense.   You definitely want better than he offers while you can certainly do worse. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

14 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

The only game in his career?

TT had 3 games in 4 with a QB rating of under 45.   

Thats is why we got the debacle that was the Chargers game!!!!

you could at least try to be honest!

 

What do you mean by "QB rating"?  Are you talking "QBR" or "total QB rating" from ESPN?  Passer rating (sometimes called QB rating)?  What?

If you're going to talk about honesty, let's be straight what you're talking about, because as written, it doesn't seem very...honest.

 

Tyrod was 10th in the league for total QBR in 2015 and 2016, 65.3 and 61.4; 13th in 2017 at 56.4.  I don't like QBR, and it's not shown in his game logs on PFR or NFL, but I don't think it's mathematically possible for him to have 3 games in 4 with a QB rating under 45 and have those averages, which show him to be...an average NFL QB.

 

For passer rating, which is sometimes called "QB rating", Tyrod was 8th, 18th, and 16th from 2015-2017, with 99.4, 89.7, and 89.2.  Again, not mathematically possible for him to have 3 games in 4 with a QB rating under 45 and have those average, which show him to be...an average NFL QB.  He has had 2 games he started with a rating under 45

 

Footballifact Honesty Assessment as it stands gives you a rating of "Pants On Fire", but I'll grant you could mean something different and explain yourself.

 

 

 

2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

He remains a middling QB who can only get a team so far if he's supported by a strong run game and defense.   You definitely want better than he offers while you can certainly do worse. 

 

Exactly

[Batman1876]

Over three years he had 7.2 YPA, 201 YPG and those numbers got worse each season during his tenure.  Over that time we were the 28th, 30th and 31st ranked passing attack. I like Tyrod but its not hard to see why we moved on. It is hard to build a winning team in today's NFL when you are a bad passing offense. Tyrod is too safe to be awful but he is also too safe to win you games. 

[MJS]

18 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

It's funny, because if Tyrod was half as bad as some want to make him out to be they wouldn't need to use tiny sample sizes or misrepresentations of the stats that encompass his production as a starter. When compared to the field over the same time-span the majority of his stats are definitively average with a few being elite and some being near the bottom of starters.

 

Yards and TD's. Those are basic, fundamental stats that show Taylor is one of the worst PASSING QB's in the league.

 

Interceptions is another fundamental stat, and Taylor does indeed do well with that one.

[BuffaloHokie13]

2 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

Giants Bills 2015

Patriots Bills 2015 

Redskins Bills 2015 

Bills Ravens 2016 Woooooof 

Bills Fins 2016 

Pats Bills 2016 

Bills Bengals 2016

Bills Raiders 2016 

Bills Steelers 2016 

Bills Panthers 2017

Bills Bengals 2017 

Bills Pats 2017 

Bills Pats 2017 

Bills Saints 2017 

Bills Jags 2017 

 

Only one game ??‍♂️

 

62.6% Completions (20th), 201.3 YPG (31st), 7.17 YPA (T-19th), 1.5 TD/G (25th), 3.25 TD/TO (2nd), 92.5 Passer Rating (15th), 6.25 ANY/A (18th), 73.1 in my rating (19th)

 

Compared with his peers over the entire 3 years, good, bad, and ugly.

1 minute ago, MJS said:

 

Yards and TD's. Those are basic, fundamental stats that show Taylor is one of the worst PASSING QB's in the league.

 

Interceptions is another fundamental stat, and Taylor does indeed do well with that one.

If you knew half the stats I have tracked over the entire 3 years you would understand I'm not just cherry-picking.

[MJS]

2 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

62.6% Completions (20th), 201.3 YPG (31st), 7.17 YPA (T-19th), 1.5 TD/G (25th), 3.25 TD/TO (2nd), 92.5 Passer Rating (15th), 6.25 ANY/A (18th), 73.1 in my rating (19th)

 

Compared with his peers over the entire 3 years, good, bad, and ugly.

If you knew half the stats I have tracked over the entire 3 years you would understand I'm not just cherry-picking.

 

I never accused you of cherry picking.

 

People can get into all kinds of crazy stats if they want, but none of them are as important as 1) Passing Yards 2) Passing TD's, and 3) Interceptions.

 

Tyrod is terrible at the first two and good at the last one.

[BuffaloHokie13]

Just now, MJS said:

 

I never accused you of cherry picking.

 

People can get into all kinds of crazy stats if they want, but none of them are as important as 1) Passing Yards 2) Passing TD's, and 3) Interceptions.

 

Tyrod is terrible at the first two and good at the last one.

Yards are a function of attempts, and have a slightly negative correlation with wins. FWIW.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

Giants Bills 2015

Patriots Bills 2015 

Redskins Bills 2015 

Bills Ravens 2016 Woooooof 

Bills Fins 2016 

Pats Bills 2016 

Bills Bengals 2016

Bills Raiders 2016 

Bills Steelers 2016 

Bills Panthers 2017

Bills Bengals 2017 

Bills Pats 2017 

Bills Pats 2017 

Bills Saints 2017 

Bills Jags 2017 

 

One game huh ?     Try to stay off the fake news.

 

"Fake news", hmmmmmmm.  Doesn't that mean "something that's actually verifyably true, but which someone with an agenda claims is fake?" 

 

Even if we take it at face value that all 15 of those games were suckage laid on Tyrod's plate, he started or played significant time in 45 career games.

So the games you list would constitute 1/3 of his career.  For "true news", try looking at the whole career.

 

Towards which I provided data elsewhere, and which 26CB summarized rather aptly in 1-2 sentences: we want better, but a football team could do worse.

[BillsInWilmingtonNC]

1 hour ago, ngbills said:

 

Really? Watch this. Not pretty. And FYI Tyrod's numbers look about the same as Tom Brady this preseason for whatever that means. 

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000950437/Every-Baker-Mayfield-touch-Preseason-Week-3

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000950445/Every-Tyrod-Taylor-touch-Preseason-Week-3

 

 

 

I've seen all of these throws.  And while I have never been on the Mayfield train, I still think he gives you more than Tyrod.  Cleveland has to answer the question of whether they want to go with the rookie that will give you wow moments (Such as I think the 2nd or 3rd throw on that video of Baker) while also giving you some rookie moments (Of which there were plenty of on that video), or going with Tyrod who will scramble around and look exciting at times, but more often than not just throws short dump offs to his RB while protecting the ball.  

 

And all of this is in reference to the OP's topic of whether it is the guy calling the plays or the person executing.  That is the only reason I am using preseason to compare Mayfield to Tyrod.....  Both have the same person calling in the plays on the sideline.... Although I do realize that one is going against 1st stringers and one is going against 2nd and 3rd stringers..  I don't think comparing preseason stats of players from different teams (Brady vs. Tyrod) is useful in most situations as different teams have different objectives during preseason.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 minutes ago, MJS said:

 

I never accused you of cherry picking.

 

People can get into all kinds of crazy stats if they want, but none of them are as important as 1) Passing Yards 2) Passing TD's, and 3) Interceptions.

 

Tyrod is terrible at the first two and good at the last one.

 

Passing yards actually are not well-correlated or predictive of wins.  There is a slight negative correlation between passing yards and winning (eg more passing yards = slightly more likely team loses).

While points scored are certainly important, I haven't encountered a particular bias towards passing TDs.  TDs scored matter, sure.

So I can't quite agree with you that no other stats are as important as those 3.