Advice Needed re: Managerial Dilemma at Work

[Captain_Quint]

First thing he needs to do is replace the office chair with one of these bad boys. I use one on the boat when the shitter is broken, and alot of the time when it's not. 

 

Maybe he could dress it up a bit by putting a 'Welcome Back' sign in the chamber pot. 

Edited August 17, 2018 by Captain_Quint

[SinceThe70s]

I'm coming into this late and haven't read the responses so I may have missed additional facts.

 

It sounds to me like mistake #1 was not starting the meeting by ensuring that anyone expected to contribute was not "present".  That's on your bud 100%. Attempts could have been made to loop her in or failing that, mea culpas and a promise to follow up appropriately with the missed info she was expected to provide.

 

As to Linda, on the face of it "some type of food poisoning incident" is way too little to decide on her professionalism. She apparently tried to let your guy know (last minute) she couldn't make it. That's a good sign. Whether the food poisoning was legit or she should have said something sooner is something your guy needs to figure out. In the end he needs to be able to trust his employees.  

[Augie]

5 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

I had a report not show up one day with no warning or message and leave me in a serious bind (which isn't just embarrassing, but can actually screw up a lot of people's lives.)  When I talked to him about it, less gently than I normally would, he admitted to me that he was in the hospital having had a grand mal seizure that morning.

 

After feeling like a complete shitheel for about ten seconds, and making sure he was okay (he still wasn't), I told him take the rest of the week off; don't worry about our bosses, I'll run interference with them; and I'll see him next week.  Oh, and please, next time something like this happens, have someone know to call or text me, so I'm not wondering if you're dead or you quit or were abducted by aliens or something.

 

Did that because he's a good performer who experienced an exceptional event that was not handled with the best judgement (not that I'd expect it from someone having a seizure, obviously.)  Much like your buddy's underling.

 

So that's my suggestion on how to handle it: when counseling her (which has to be done), make sure she's okay and that she doesn't need anything, and when she understands that he doesn't expect her to be sitting in her chair, shitting herself while she delivers a presentation (he doesn't, does he?) discuss ways of handling such a situation in the future (e.g. grab the nearest person and ask them to "Tell so-and-so I've just collapsed in a quivering mass of vomit and crap.") 

 

If she's a good worker, she's probably already fretting that she !@#$ed up, and there's no need to rub it in.  Likewise, if she's a good worker, she's worth the consideration.  A complete !@#$-up, I'd handle differently...but a complete !@#$-up likely never gets in to that position of responsibility anyway.

 

As for outside opinions of "Who is this loser you hired?"  Hey, real life happens.  You tell them the truth: she suddenly became violently ill in mid-call, so suddenly that he was delayed in finding out.  And while it was unfortunate she became ill, she's a good worker and he stands by her performance otherwise.  Take care of your people, and they'll take care of you.  

 

And something your buddy should take away from this: always contingency plan.  Always.  That's part of being a manager.  Assume people are going to win the lottery or get hit by a bus.  If you're giving a presentation, have a backup.  If one of your reports is, make sure they have a backup.  Always cross-train your staff so any given person is backed up by someone else, and make sure you know all their jobs so you can step in and back them up yourself in the worst-case scenario.  Again...take care of your people, and they take care of you.

 

 

(Yes, I actually know how to manage people.  Who'd've thunk it?)

 

You nailed it. Cross train and always be ready. When my bank got bought by the then 7th largest bank in the country (I won’t name names, in the hopes that I won’t go off on a rant about those fools), I had a manager with a serious personal situation.  One of her sons had a birth defect that required him to have a shunt replaced so the fluid could drain from his brain. It had to be done at merger time. I had people who could serve in her absence. 

 

The fool who was to become my boss asked why I allowed her the time off when the merger was occurring. I told her that her son needed brain surgery, or he might become more crippled or possibly die. The response I got was “well, my job has always come first!”

 

It still makes me ill just to type that. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(PS - First Union sucked!) 

11 minutes ago, Captain_Quint said:

First thing he needs to do is replace the office chair with one of these bad boys. I use one on the boat when the shitter is broken, and alot of the time when it's not. 

 

Maybe he could dress it up a bit by putting a 'Welcome Back' sign in the chamber pot. 

 

 

Is that a Club Seat?  Cool! 

[DC Tom]

3 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

This was a great post.  Sounds like you're a good manager and not a total *SS-hole 

 

"Clear expectations, clearly expressed."  But there's no need to be an !@#$ about it.  If you're a queeg-like martinet, you end up terrifying people into not showing initiative and thinking they need approval for every single little thing.  

 

Early on, I set the expectation of "You will, if at all possible, be physically present for our daily status meeting.  If life gets in the way - traffic is worse than usual, Metro exploded - call in.  If you're in the dentist's chair or the dog collapsed and you have to rush him to the vet or something and can't get to the phone, text your status in.  Otherwise, be there."  They don't always meet the expectations, but since the expectations are clear they know it a friendly but firm word brings them in line. 

 

Like I had one report who started coming in late and dialing in so he could sleep in.  He and his wife are working on the project (she's on a different team), so they usually leave together.  So after a couple days of calling in/coming in late, she comes to the team room to leave, he gets up to go, and I tell him "Y'know...if you're leaving at the same time as her, you can come in same time as her."  Hasn't been a problem since.

 

You've got to understand people, too.  I know he'd respond well to a gentle chiding in front of his wife, and he'd know there was no disrespect intended or implied.  I've handled it differently with someone else.  It helps that I'm basically a sociopath, so 1) I know how to manipulate people, and 2) I don't have real feelings, so I constantly have to be faking it, which causes me to be constantly analyzing people's reactions and emotions.  Fortunately I'm not a psychopath, just a sociopath, so I only use my powers for good.

[DC Tom]

12 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

You nailed it. Cross train and always be ready. When my bank got bought by the then 7th largest bank in the country (I won’t name names, in the hopes that I won’t go off on a rant about those fools), I had a manager with a serious personal situation.  One of her sons had a birth defect that required him to have a shunt replaced so the fluid could drain from his brain. It had to be done at merger time. I had people who could serve in her absence. 

 

The fool who was to become my boss asked why I allowed her the time off when the merger was occurring. I told her that her son needed brain surgery, or he might become more crippled or possibly die. The response I got was “well, my job has always come first!”

 

It still makes me ill just to type that. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(PS - First Union sucked!) 

 

 

Is that a Club Seat?  Cool! 

 

 

I was going to guess Zion's Bank.  They were a serious group of !@#$-ups.

 

That fool of a boss sounds like a real winner.  He should have been hit in the face for that.  Hard.  With something odd and obscure, like a wombat.  I've had bosses like that, and I've decided I'll never work for another.  The aforementioned report, he was worried about being fired, and I told him "If they fire you for a health condition, I will quit on the spot, because that is some **** up with which I will not put."  I have spent too much of my career making myself miserable trying to satisfy high-motivation low-performing Stepford Managers whose only measurable skill is the ability to spell "MBA" to waste even one more minute with another one.

[SinceThe70s]

14 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

"Clear expectations, clearly expressed."  But there's no need to be an !@#$ about it.  If you're a queeg-like martinet, you end up terrifying people into not showing initiative and thinking they need approval for every single little thing.  

 

Early on, I set the expectation of "You will, if at all possible, be physically present for our daily status meeting.  If life gets in the way - traffic is worse than usual, Metro exploded - call in.  If you're in the dentist's chair or the dog collapsed and you have to rush him to the vet or something and can't get to the phone, text your status in.  Otherwise, be there."  They don't always meet the expectations, but since the expectations are clear they know it a friendly but firm word brings them in line. 

 

Like I had one report who started coming in late and dialing in so he could sleep in.  He and his wife are working on the project (she's on a different team), so they usually leave together.  So after a couple days of calling in/coming in late, she comes to the team room to leave, he gets up to go, and I tell him "Y'know...if you're leaving at the same time as her, you can come in same time as her."  Hasn't been a problem since.

 

You've got to understand people, too.  I know he'd respond well to a gentle chiding in front of his wife, and he'd know there was no disrespect intended or implied.  I've handled it differently with someone else.  It helps that I'm basically a sociopath, so 1) I know how to manipulate people, and 2) I don't have real feelings, so I constantly have to be faking it, which causes me to be constantly analyzing people's reactions and emotions.  Fortunately I'm not a psychopath, just a sociopath, so I only use my powers for good.

 

You may be a sociopath, but I don't think that's a precept to basic managerial skills (just a means to an end): set expectations, ensure they are adhered to or exceeded otherwise replace. Rinse and repeat. 

[DC Tom]

20 minutes ago, SinceThe70s said:

 

You may be a sociopath, but I don't think that's a precept to basic managerial skills (just a means to an end): set expectations, ensure they are adhered to or exceeded otherwise replace. Rinse and repeat. 

 

You'd be surprised how many managers don't even comprehend the "set expectations" skill.  

[Gugny]

3 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

So a buddy of mine called me today all stressed out.  He works in finance at a large, multi-national corporation.  He's always talking about numbers, budgets, fiscal forecasting, etc.  All the fun stuff. LOL.  

 

Today he had to give a presentation over the phone to like 30 people in several countries.  When he finished, he asked his underling (we'll call her Linda) to start her part of the presentation.  No answer.  My buddy thought she was over on her side of the building in her office quietly waiting for her turn to speak.  I guess this was a fairly important matter and she certainly knew she had to participate today.

 

So someone gets up and physically goes to Linda's office only to find it dark and unattended.

 

Turns out Linda had some type of food poisoning incident at work earlier in the morning and went home feeling ill.  The only thing she did to notify anyone of this was send an instant message in MS Office to my buddy, once the meeting had already started, which of course he never saw b/c the computer knew he was in a meeting and so it blocked the IM part of the program.  She didn't tell anyone else or send an email. 

 

So now he needs to yell at Linda, basically, but he is unsure how to proceed.  Keep in mind Linda is a good worker, was hired by my buddy, and overall I think my buddy has a good relationship with her which he doesn't want to ruin.

 

Yet Linda's actions today were unprofessional, out of line, and ended up embarrassing my buddy in front of all these people in fairly high up positions particularly at world corporate HQ in a foreign country.  He's afraid they are all going to be like "who is this loser you hired!?"

Anyone here have managerial experience?  How do you handle the little chat my buddy has to have tomorrow with Linda?  

 

 

 

I've been managing people/teams for over 20 years.  One thing I've learned is to always give members of your team the benefit of the doubt.  In this case, those who don't work closely with Linda will be quick to jump to conclusions and criticize.  This is where your buddy comes in as a good leader.

 

If she's a great employee, then your buddy's first thought should be, "man, something really must have been wrong."

 

Showing GENUINE concern for team members is crucial.  That goes hand in hand with giving the benefit of the doubt.

 

The first words out of his mouth should be, "Are you okay?"

 

Knowing she missed an important call, she'll quickly tell the entire story.

 

Then your buddy can show some empathy and proceed to coach her on how to handle a similar situation differently in the future.

 

Linda will remember a couple very important things:  His first question was asking how I was; and he didn't rip me a new one - instead, he coached me.

[SinceThe70s]

8 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

You'd be surprised how many managers don't even comprehend the "set expectations" skill.  

 

I'm not surprised by that at all, just disappointed when I see it. In my profession I've seen tech folks put into managerial roles because that was the next step up, not because that's what they were good at or even wanted to do.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Almost two full pages in (You think I read all this pencil pushing stuff?  I skimmed) and nobody told Your Buddy to shiv Her yet?

 

This place is going to hell in a hand basket!

 

Oh... HammyStix, You get special dispensation for suggesting the waterboarding.  I can count on You to handle these matters with proper elan!

[LeGOATski]

I'd **** on Linda's desk.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

9 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

It's not a situation where she's faking it and doing something weird.

 

Apparently there were some witness to the scene in the ladies bathroom and it wasn't good.

 

It wasn't a vomiting problem.  It involved the other end of things.

 

I think her track record is quite good, which is why my buddy likes her so much.  A lot of the other people he works with are not quite good.

 

 

 

Well, then, common sense would dictate that your buddy understand this and give Linda a pass here.

[Wacka]

Once I had food poisoning so bad I went to the emergency room.  Was out shopping and felt queasy. Went to a Taco Bell  to get some water(I did not eat there) and  get to their bathroom and violently puke.   Staggered back to the counter and asked them to call the local FD, which was thankfully around the corner.  They came and took me to the ER. They determined it was food poisoning and  had me there for several hours until i felt better.  I had left my car at TB and had to take a cab home.  The next day had to have a neighbor take me to pick it up.   I think Linda had more important things on her mind then than calling someone.

[ExiledInIllinois]

You guys are slipping... Is she hot? 

 

I like to think I missed that while trying to read through all the BS advice given...LoL..

 

 

6 minutes ago, Wacka said:

Once I had food poisoning so bad I went to the emergency room.  Was out shopping and felt queasy. Went to a Taco Bell  to get some water(I did not eat there) and  get to their bathroom and violently puke.   Staggered back to the counter and asked them to call the local FD, which was thankfully around the corner.  They came and took me to the ER. They determined it was food poisoning and  had me there for several hours until i felt better.  I had left my car at TB and had to take a cab home.  The next day had to have a neighbor take me to pick it up.   I think Linda had more important things on her mind then than calling someone.

Should just ordered a cheesy crunchy gordita and washed it down with a Dr.Pepper, would have been fine in no time.  They always tell You don't drink the water "South of the Border." ?

[Soda Popinski]

poor communication.   It's one of the most rampant problems at every business everywhere.   People don't communicate.  

 

Dealing with it right now at work, i send over some information I need our insurance department to do an update on so i can do my job and i get no response.   None whatsoever. Pisses me off to no end. Then when i do get a response an hour later there is a bunch of "You're making me drink, blah blah blah whine whine".

 

Around here the culture is make a huge fuss about everything and no one will bother you.  

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

28 minutes ago, Wacka said:

Once I had food poisoning so bad I went to the emergency room.  Was out shopping and felt queasy. Went to a Taco Bell  to get some water(I did not eat there) and  get to their bathroom and violently puke.   Staggered back to the counter and asked them to call the local FD, which was thankfully around the corner.  They came and took me to the ER. They determined it was food poisoning and  had me there for several hours until i felt better.  I had left my car at TB and had to take a cab home.  The next day had to have a neighbor take me to pick it up.   I think Linda had more important things on her mind then than calling someone.

 

If you've never had food poisoning affecting both ends at the same time, pray you never do. I did once, it was a living hell.

 

[Your Brown Eye]

She needs to sacrifice her first born for that 

[Gugny]

8 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

If you've never had food poisoning affecting both ends at the same time, pray you never do. I did once, it was a living hell.

 

 

So did you have to clean puke off the floor, or poop?

 

That's a tough decision in crunch time.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, Gugny said:

 

So did you have to clean puke off the floor, or poop?

 

That's a tough decision in crunch time.

 

Cleverness helps. Hold a bucket, while sitting on the throne.

 

[Gugny]

Just now, joesixpack said:

 

Cleverness helps. Hold a bucket, while sitting on the throne.

 

 

Ahhh ... you had the luxury of preparation!  Lucky dog.

 

Now that I know how to make an envelope out of any paper product, I'll always be prepared.

[Soda Popinski]

Either a bucket your you barf into the bath tub.   I actually keep little buckets in every bathroom under the sink.   We used to use them to bath the kids when they were little.   But just never took them out.

 

I would use the trash can also in the event of such an emergency, just take out the trash bag and let it go, then hose it out after.  

 

I have had food poisoning and for me, after about 2 hours, most of it's out and you're just dry heaving until your head wants to explode.  That's the worst. 

[ExiledInIllinois]

26 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

If you've never had food poisoning affecting both ends at the same time, pray you never do. I did once, it was a living hell.

 

Oh my.  Never had it happen.  But I guess it becomes a vicious circle... Getting worse and worse.  The smell of sh*t, puke, building to a crescendo and then the never ending dry heaves...  Holy !@#$... I dread that day on earth just kill me.

 

Kinda like Chunk fesses  up!

 

 

[KD in CA]

I hope your buddy knew enough about what she was doing so he could step in and speak intelligently about it in her absence.

 

Otherwise, my experience has taught me the more people on the call, the less important it is, so if it was really 30 people, most of them probably didn't need to be there and were thrilled to have the meeting cut short.

[Greybeard]

13 hours ago, SinceThe70s said:

 

It sounds to me like mistake #1 was not starting the meeting by ensuring that anyone expected to contribute was not "present".  That's on your bud 100%. Attempts could have been made to loop her in or failing that, mea culpas and a promise to follow up appropriately with the missed info she was expected to provide.

 

As to Linda, on the face of it "some type of food poisoning incident" is way too little to decide on her professionalism. She apparently tried to let your guy know (last minute) she couldn't make it. That's a good sign. Whether the food poisoning was legit or she should have said something sooner is something your guy needs to figure out. In the end he needs to be able to trust his employees.  

           That note on checking who is present is extremely good advice.  In all the phone meetings I have ever been a participant in, this was common practice, especially since phone meetings start with everyone logging in.   A meeting with 30 people I would have thought he would have written down all the participants as they logged in, especially if he was a key participant.  

         I would be willing to bet he does so in all future phone meetings.

[GoBills808]

Fadingpain- ask your bud if he's any good at math. If he is, break it down for him like I would: you have a situation wherein A: Linda, a supposedly 'good' worker, suffers a health issue (an uncommonly bad one, which causes her to alter her normally responsible behavior and not alert your friend to her status) which by all accounts is an unlikely occurrence (I'm giving it a value of <1%, which seems high in all honesty if you divide the number of times/year a person might suffer from such a health issue by 365), and B: it happens on the same day your friend has given her a task to complete which directly affects his ability to properly administer a presentation (seems like another fairly uncommon situation, if we control for the amount of presentations your friend does per year and then factor in how many of those depend upon Linda, I'm not sure the value here but it seems likely given he reached out to you for advice this is another fairly unique event; say 10 presentations/year of which Linda is responsible for 1 of them)...the likelihood that both these events occurred on the same day at roughly the same time is VERY small, and the more probably explanation is that Linda is not as good a worker as your friend believes her to be.

[Soda Popinski]

33 minutes ago, Greybeard said:

           That note on checking who is present is extremely good advice.  In all the phone meetings I have ever been a participant in, this was common practice, especially since phone meetings start with everyone logging in.   A meeting with 30 people I would have thought he would have written down all the participants as they logged in, especially if he was a key participant.  

         I would be willing to bet he does so in all future phone meetings.

I bet in the future all the information needed will be forwarded to his email and printed prior to the meeting.  

[Just Jack]

5 hours ago, joesixpack said:

 

Cleverness helps. Hold a bucket, while sitting on the throne.

 

 

Had that just about a month ago. Had dinner with the wife and her friends at a small seafood place. The only thing we all at together was steamers as an app, all different dinners. I was the only be that got sick, but I still say I got the bad clam out of the dozen. 

 

 

17 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

It's not a situation where she's faking it and doing something weird.

 

Apparently there were some witness to the scene in the ladies bathroom and it wasn't good.

 

It wasn't a vomiting problem.  It involved the other end of things.

 

Was it Red Lobster? I always get the ***** about an hour after eating there. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

4 minutes ago, Just Jack said:

 

Had that just about a month ago. Had dinner with the wife and her friends at a small seafood place. The only thing we all at together was steamers as an app, all different dinners. I was the only be that got sick, but I still say I got the bad clam out of the dozen. 

 

 

 

Was it Red Lobster? I always get the ***** about an hour after eating there. 

 

Carrabbas

 

[Fr. Jerk]

He should cause an environmental disaster of BP oil spill levels, then blame it on Linda. 

[Misterbluesky]

6 hours ago, Soda Popinski said:

poor communication.   It's one of the most rampant problems at every business everywhere.   People don't communicate.  

 

Dealing with it right now at work, i send over some information I need our insurance department to do an update on so i can do my job and i get no response.   None whatsoever. Pisses me off to no end. Then when i do get a response an hour later there is a bunch of "You're making me drink, blah blah blah whine whine".

 

Around here the culture is make a huge fuss about everything and no one will bother you.  

Kill the entire department...isn't that what burned out office workers do these days? You should have became a Conservation Officer...

[Soda Popinski]

6 minutes ago, Misterbluesky said:

Kill the entire department...isn't that what burned out office workers do these days? You should have became a Conservation Officer...

FWC officers get shot at regularly by poachers.    

 

I'll just write a strongly worded letter and drop it in the suggestion box.  maybe we could do some team building exercises to boost morale or something.   

[GoBills808]

7 minutes ago, Soda Popinski said:

FWC officers get shot at regularly by poachers.    

 

I'll just write a strongly worded letter and drop it in the suggestion box.  maybe we could do some team building exercises to boost morale or something.   

Think I'd probably just taker her out on the boat for a quick trip to the 1000 fathom. Best case scenario we work it all out and come home with some blood on the decks, and if it turns out after a few cold ones she was just slacking you can pretend she went overboard without a life preserver. IMO most of life's problems can be solved by going fishing.

[Soda Popinski]

41 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

Carrabbas

 

That's where I got food poisoning too.  I had the Veil marsala.   that was 2003.  Have not had it since.  Never again....ever 

[SinceThe70s]

6 hours ago, joesixpack said:

 

If you've never had food poisoning affecting both ends at the same time, pray you never do. I did once, it was a living hell.

 

 

Happened to me on a flight from Orlando to NYC. Hit me just before take-off.

[Augie]

16 hours ago, DC Tom said:

 

 

I was going to guess Zion's Bank.  They were a serious group of !@#$-ups.

 

That fool of a boss sounds like a real winner.  He should have been hit in the face for that.  Hard.  With something odd and obscure, like a wombat.  I've had bosses like that, and I've decided I'll never work for another.  The aforementioned report, he was worried about being fired, and I told him "If they fire you for a health condition, I will quit on the spot, because that is some **** up with which I will not put."  I have spent too much of my career making myself miserable trying to satisfy high-motivation low-performing Stepford Managers whose only measurable skill is the ability to spell "MBA" to waste even one more minute with another one.

 

When I left FU (as I like to call them), I moved to Florida and was deciding between 2-3 banks. In one interview I was asked some question about work ethic. I had a nice little answer, and toward the end wove in the child’s brain surgery vs work comment of “my job has always come first”. She knew an interview is a two way process, and she gave me the answer that made my decision. She said “it shouldn’t even come in second, should it?” I’m all about hard work,  but your job is what you do, not who you are. 

[Gugny]

I ate some undercooked chicken as part of a sandwich I got at a Ruby Tuesday's before going to an Alanis Morissette concert (Tori Amos opened).  I was fine throughout the concert, but when I got home, I puked my brains out.  Nothing else ... just the puke.  I consider myself lucky.

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, Gugny said:

I ate some undercooked chicken as part of a sandwich I got at a Ruby Tuesday's before going to an Alanis Morissette concert (Tori Amos opened).  I was fine throughout the concert, but when I got home, I puked my brains out.  Nothing else ... just the puke.  I consider myself lucky.

I've heard that's a fairly common reaction to Alanis Morissette concerts. 

[Soda Popinski]

11 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I've heard that's a fairly common reaction to Alanis Morissette concerts. 

You were on thin ice there.....Tori Amos was the shizzzzz back in the day.    

[Gugny]

24 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I've heard that's a fairly common reaction to Alanis Morissette concerts. 

 

12 minutes ago, Soda Popinski said:

You were on thin ice there.....Tori Amos was the shizzzzz back in the day.    

 

 

They were both quite phenomenal, actually.

 

And hot.

[Gray Beard]

Words of advice:

1.  Don’t go to Red Lobster

2.  If you go to Red Lobster, don’t order the linguini with shrimp

3.  If you get the linguini with shrimp, don’t take leftovers home

4.  If you take leftover linguini with shrimp home, DON’T eat it the next day