Helsinki Summit

[row_33]

9 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I am under no illusion that our government is perfect and that some horrible decisions have been made.  But at present the decision has to be made as to what to do about a foreign country interfering with our electoral process.  And I certainly side with us vs. them in that regard.

 

is the President to be held responsible if 12 goofballs on US soil hack into the horribly protected servers of foreign governments?

 

 

[THEHARDTRUTH]

13 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

 

This is a perfect segue back into some prior content I posted that you never responded to.

 

The Kim's hands have been tied for decades because the CIA was actively running North Korea as a black site.  It's the reason Trump's reformed CIA used was to conduct the recent diplomatic relations there in the build up to Trumps summit instead of State who always fills that role.   Kim reached out to the Obama administration seeking exactly the same thing that President Trump successfully negotiated, and Obama ignored him.  The DPRK wanted normalized relations for a long time.

 

Only by removing black hat bad actors in our CIA was this able to be achieved.

 

The CIA is not to be trusted.  Full stop.

 

Here's a short list of examples of the good work they've done in the world.  I'd like you to respond to this, and explain to me why you, I , or anyone else owes them any allegiance.

 

Lying us into Iraq

 

The Bay of Pigs."

  

MKUltra

 

Intentionally releasing the whooping cough in the Tampa Bay area

 

Intentionally infecting Guatemalans with syphilis

 

Injecting unsuspecting US citizens with plutonium

 

Injecting prisoners with the main ingredient of Agent Orange

 

Choosing to protect and insulate known pedophiles in government

 

Dosing unsuspecting US citizens with LSD

 

Overthrowing the governments of Iran, Argentina, Guatemala, the Congo, the Dominican Republic, South Vietnam, and Chile

 

Running the global supply of opiates

Those little green people you see running around your house arent real.

[TakeYouToTasker]

2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Just looked at it.  Bizarre of course.  And wrong.

 

Do you believe that a rogue and unaccountable agency, empowered to do terrible things like this simply stops?

 

The CIA did much of this in an attempt to actualize mind control, and they succeeded.

 

In the 1960's they succeeded.

 

You were unaware of this.  So is most everyone else.

 

They were protected and insulated to do this for a purpose.

 

It's 60 years later.

 

Do you think they've stopped?  Or perhaps they've gotten better at it?

 

This wasn't in any way unique either.  The list I gave you is completely incomprehensive.

 

 

[DC Tom]

19 minutes ago, #34fan said:

 

 

Just so I know, who's Hitler and who's Stalin in this scenario?

 

Trump's a Nazi, Putin's a commie.

 

You really need this explained?

[row_33]

so Liberals will now start defending the reputation of Hoover?  and the agencies during the covert action in Central America in the 1980s?

 

this will be rich..... 

 

 

[Foxx]

2 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

is the President to be held responsible if 12 goofballs on US soil hack into the horribly protected servers of foreign governments?

 

 

who is Obama for $400 Alex.

[oldmanfan]

Just now, row_33 said:

 

is the President to be held responsible if 12 goofballs on US soil hack into the horribly protected servers of foreign governments?

 

 

He's head of the Executive branch.  The Executive branch executes the laws of our country.  DOJ and the FBI are under the Executive branch.  Is he personally responsible?  No.  But ultimately it falls under his direction.  If American citizens committed such a crime then his department enforces the laws of our country.

[row_33]

8 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

He's head of the Executive branch.  The Executive branch executes the laws of our country.  DOJ and the FBI are under the Executive branch.  Is he personally responsible?  No.  But ultimately it falls under his direction.  If American citizens committed such a crime then his department enforces the laws of our country.

 

sounds good on paper

 

you want Putin to answer for everyone in Russia???  it's really laughable....

 

 

Obama gloated when Germany complained about the US bugging and hacking everything in Germany, he also directly interfered in the elections of Israel, gloated about that as well...

 

try to maintain even 1% consistency?

 

[THEHARDTRUTH]

3 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I am under no illusion that our government is perfect and that some horrible decisions have been made.  But at present the decision has to be made as to what to do about a foreign country interfering with our electoral process.  And I certainly side with us vs. them in that regard.

Let me bring you up to speed oldmanfan. Most of the people in this politics thread are certifable. Your wasting your time trying to have a rational discussion with them. Its like trying to have a logical debate with Charles Manson or Ted Bundy. Dont waste your time.

[TakeYouToTasker]

8 minutes ago, MILFHUNTER#518 said:

What about all those other accusations? Whooping cough? Plutonium?

 

whooping cough

 

plutonium

[Koko78]

31 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I certainly think North Korea is irrational.  How many administrations have tried to have a dialog with them and yet they are still getting nuclear weapons on board.putin may be more rational but he is like a bully that won't quit until you smack him in the face.

 

Trying to use rational thought processes with irrational people doesn't work.

 

I would disagree that North Korea has historically acted irrationally. You have to remember that the number one priority of the Kim Dynasty is to maintain the existence of the Kim Dynasty. Their people are starving, oppressed, and forced into servitude. They've used generational propaganda to secure loyalty, compliance, and obedience. They need to rattle the sabre constantly at 'enemies' and imaginary invasion plans to keep the people distracted from their hungry bellies, as cults of personality, hero worship, and brain washing only go so far when you're starving to death.

 

Every single bit of sabre rattling and nuclear ambition has been geared for domestic consumption to make the Kims look strong and, ultimately, benevolent. North Korea is never going to use nuclear weapons as an offensive measure (short of a last resort/revenge strike during an actual invasion of Best Korea by the US/ROK/Japan/etc.), because they darn well know they're not going to survive the reprisals. Joe NorthKorean doesn't necessarily know that. All he has been told is that they need to be strong before the imperial capitalist pigdogs invade and take what little they have away.

 

If you look at it from the Best Korean perspective, their actions do make sense. I don't really subscribe to the CIA playground thing, but that is possible.

 

That said, I think that it's a huge (or yuge, if you want) concession that Lil' Kim is revising the propaganda to his people, softening them to cooperation with the imperialist capitalist pigdog puppetmaster United States. That part doesn't get much play in the media that I've seen, because it's not as tangible as meetings and returning the bodies of dead American servicemen.

[LaDexter]

7 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Rosenstein, a Trump hire btw, may end up a national hero because he actually is

 

 

 

He already is a "national hero," the nation being ISRAEL.

[THEHARDTRUTH]

1 minute ago, LaDexter said:

 

 

 

He already is a "national hero," the nation being ISRAEL.

Exhibit A.

[Doc Brown]

53 minutes ago, row_33 said:

he has always been America First and is going to implement it in foreign policy

 

hopefully avoid all the blunders made since WW2, so much could have  been avoided

 

Yankee come home

 

He's Trump first who views America as the strongest country and has always desperately sought the approval of the elites.  We can't avoid blunders that we already made because if we tried we'd risk unraveling the fabric of the space time continuum and destroy the entire universe.  The Yankees are much better at home.

[Deranged Rhino]

59 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I would need to research a whole lot of what you've posted here to determine if there's any validity.  Dosing citizens with LSD?

If you're going to try and convince me that the North Koreans are the good guys and we're the bad guys, don't bother.

 

It's not "we're the bad guys" - "we" are not the CIA, or the elements of that organization that sold this country out decades ago. That's the point Tasker is trying to drive home, there has long been a pernicious infiltration of our intelligence services by a group that does not have our nation's best interest in mind. That group has held the wheel of power for your entire life (and mine). They are being shown the door across the globe, and the wailing and hyperbolic overreactions we are seeing are driven (largely) by their messaging industries. 

 

We are today in the middle of a world war. It's World War III, but it's being fought in the shadows by intelligence services (private and nation state backed). The enemy isn't foreign or domestic - it's both and not localized to any one nation or agency. 

[dpberr]

I buy the Russians did it.  

 

However, I think the reason they did it is because there is a personal beef between Putin and the Clintons and it's either ridiculous, incriminating or horrific, and that's why Obama didn't touch it and Trump is going to sidestep it.  

 

Obama wasn't going to ride to Hillary's rescue and Trump certainly isn't.  I know the narrative is "what does Russia have on Trump" but you never see much about why Russia would have it in for the Clintons.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[LaDexter]

5 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

there has long been a pernicious infiltration of our intelligence services by a group that does not have our nation's best interest in mind

 

 

 

Agreed....

 

 

[Deranged Rhino]

55 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I am under no illusion that our government is perfect and that some horrible decisions have been made.  But at present the decision has to be made as to what to do about a foreign country interfering with our electoral process.  And I certainly side with us vs. them in that regard.

 

"Us versus Them" is an invention designed to divide and confuse. Oldest trick in the book. Shouldn't our aim be to find the truth and seek out justice, not just resort to lizard brain tribalism? 

 

51 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

He's head of the Executive branch.  The Executive branch executes the laws of our country.  DOJ and the FBI are under the Executive branch.  Is he personally responsible?  No.  But ultimately it falls under his direction.  If American citizens committed such a crime then his department enforces the laws of our country.

 

What if those American citizens who committed those crimes sat in positions of power inside the intelligence agencies? What if one of those Americans who committed crimes was sitting in the Oval Office? How do you prosecute former administration officials in this current divisive environment without it being seen as political payback? 

 

(Still not trying to be annoying to you, Oldmanfan, just trying to keep the conversation going because you're asking good and fair questions)

[TakeYouToTasker]

3 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

It's not "we're the bad guys" - "we" are not the CIA, or the elements of that organization that sold this country out decades ago. That's the point Tasker is trying to drive home, there has long been a pernicious infiltration of our intelligence services by a group that does not have our nation's best interest in mind. That group has held the wheel of power for your entire life (and mine). They are being shown the door across the globe, and the wailing and hyperbolic overreactions we are seeing are driven (largely) by their messaging industries. 

 

We are today in the middle of a world war. It's World War III, but it's being fought in the shadows by intelligence services (private and nation state backed). The enemy isn't foreign or domestic - it's both and not localized to any one nation or agency. 

 

This is exactly correct.

 

The world is not binary.

 

It's not that "the United States is bad" and "North Korea is good", it's that there are definitively bad actors within the US government who act in a rogue capacity in the service of constituencies whom are not in government, and in most cases aren't even American.

 

They have been able to operate because they control many elected (and unelected, think both bureaucrats and the courts) members of our governments (state, federal, local), foreign governments, and heads of major media (old and new) and major corporations through a system of blackmail, which has become far more wide spread and far more insidious in the information age when we gave them unfettered access to everyone's digital communications.

 

When you can control a man via information you have about him, either that you harvested or created through honey-potting, you can control every decision he makes towards your ends.

 

You can control votes in Congress.  You can control the decisions rendered by the Court.  You can control voices in the media and use them to propagandize for you.  You can control monetary policy. 

 

You can control the world.

 

These are bad actors doing absurdly evil things.

 

You owe them no allegiance.

 

In fact, if you value American sovereignty, human freedom, and the goodness of man you owe your allegiance to fighting them such that we can give a better world to our children.

 

 

[MILFHUNTER#518]

1 hour ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

 

whooping cough

 

plutonium

Funny how alot of those experiments happened in San Fransisco. Kinda explains alot of things!

 

Thank you for the links bud!?

[KW95 - JA17]

I think you guy could convince anyone that Trump is a hero and great for the USA!

[row_33]

44 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

 

This is exactly correct.

 

The world is not binary.

 

It's not that "the United States is bad" and "North Korea is good", it's that there are definitively bad actors within the US government who act in a rogue capacity in the service of constituencies whom are not in government, and in most cases aren't even American.

 

They have been able to operate because they control many elected (and unelected, think both bureaucrats and the courts) members of our governments (state, federal, local), foreign governments, and heads of major media (old and new) and major corporations through a system of blackmail, which has become far more wide spread and far more insidious in the information age when we gave them unfettered access to everyone's digital communications.

 

When you can control a man via information you have about him, either that you harvested or created through honey-potting, you can control every decision he makes towards your ends.

 

You can control votes in Congress.  You can control the decisions rendered by the Court.  You can control voices in the media and use them to propagandize for you.  You can control monetary policy. 

 

You can control the world.

 

These are bad actors doing absurdly evil things.

 

You owe them no allegiance.

 

In fact, if you value American sovereignty, human freedom, and the goodness of man you owe your allegiance to fighting them such that we can give a better world to our children.

 

 

 

 

 

Intel can be very dirty business. 

 

I do not accept that this dirty business involves trying to pave the way for a Presidential Candidate at full prejudice against the eventual winner.

 

[outsidethebox]

27 minutes ago, KW95 said:

I think you guy could convince anyone that Trump is a hero and great for the USA!

English please?

[KW95 - JA17]

37 minutes ago, westside said:

English please?

 

Sorry, after reading the transcript, I meant to write Couldn't.

 

The sentence should read:

 

" I think you guys couldn't convince anyone that Trump is a hero and great for the USA "

Edited July 17, 2018 by KW95

[row_33]

21 minutes ago, KW95 said:

 

Sorry, after reading the transcript, I meant to write Couldn't.

 

The sentence should read:

 

" I think you guys couldn't convince anyone that Trump is a hero and great for the USA "

 

 

you only have to beat the opponent they put up against you

 

 

[TakeYouToTasker]

4 hours ago, KW95 said:

 

Sorry, after reading the transcript, I meant to write Couldn't.

 

The sentence should read:

 

" I think you guys couldn't convince anyone that Trump is a hero and great for the USA "

 

Actually, that's demonstrably untrue.

 

Both before and after the election this sub-forum was a haven of never Trump sentiment.

 

With diminishingly few exceptions, the posters here rejected the President's rhetoric, believed his policy positions absurd and destructive, and viewed him as boorish, grotesque, and otherwise unpalatable.

 

I myself was a never Trump libertarian who believed the President would destroy American conservatism in a way that would change the course of the country forever.

 

Greg (Deranged Rhino) was of a similar opinion, only he's further to the left than I am.

 

Something happened along the road to impeachment, however.  

 

Greg became aware of some information which he threw himself into as a research project, and  approached it with a zeal for true investigative journalism not often seen in today's media environment, and he shared his findings with us on a continuous and on going capacity.  He sourced it with absurd amounts of documentation, and made, over time, one of the most compelling arguments I've ever read anywhere.

 

He challenged us not to simply believe him, but to vet his work; trying to punch holes in it.

 

We did, and we tried.  But his argument was too strong, and his predictions became stunningly accurate.

 

As a result this forum became what you see it as today because of one man's work, and the willingness of others to seek truth with an open mind.

 

The argument has convinced more than it has not.

Edited July 18, 2018 by TakeYouToTasker

[MILFHUNTER#518]

7 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

 

Actually, that's demonstrably untrue.

 

Both before and after the election this sub-forum was a haven of never Trump sentiment.

 

With diminishingly few exceptions, the posters here rejected the President's rhetoric, believed his policy positions absurd and destructive, and viewed him as boorish, grotesque, and otherwise unpalatable.

 

I myself was a never Trump libertarian who believed the President would destroy American conservatism in a way that would change the course of the country forever.

 

Greg (Deranged Rhino) was of a similar opinion, only he's further to the left than I am.

 

Something happened along the road to impeachment, however.  

 

Greg became aware of some information which he threw himself into as a research project, and  approached it with a zeal for true investigative journalism not often seen in today's media environment, and he shared his findings with us on a continuous and on going capacity.  He sourced it with absurd amounts of documentation, and made, over time, one of the most compelling arguments I've ever read anywhere.

 

He challenged us not to simply believe him, but to vet his work; trying to punch holes in it.

 

We did, and we tried.  But his argument was too strong, and his predictions became stunningly accurate.

 

As a result this forum because what you see it as today because of one man's work, and the willingness of others to seek truth with an open mind.

 

The argument has convinced more than it has not.

He is a leftist? I dont know the man, but I find it hard to believe he is a leftist.  I tried going back to his early posts but you can only go back to April 8th as he posts so much...

 

I do agree with your post, though. The arguments here I have noticed turned quite a few opinions, and have been quite enlightening.  They have even triggered the left to send in some trolls to push the conversation left, like Tiberius.

Edited July 17, 2018 by MILFHUNTER#518
Added content

[TakeYouToTasker]

2 minutes ago, MILFHUNTER#518 said:

He is a leftist? I dont know the man, but I find it hard to believe he is a leftist.  I tried going back to his early posts but you can only go back to April 8th as he posts so much...

 

Greg was never a leftist, but he was a liberal.

[DC Tom]

32 minutes ago, MILFHUNTER#518 said:

He is a leftist? I dont know the man, but I find it hard to believe he is a leftist.  I tried going back to his early posts but you can only go back to April 8th as he posts so much...

 

I do agree with your post, though. The arguments here I have noticed turned quite a few opinions, and have been quite enlightening.  They have even triggered the left to send in some trolls to push the conversation left, like Tiberius.

 

He was.  It's actually kind of strange to think about now.  Just today, I was reading one of his posts and thinking "Remember when..."

 

Of course, that was mostly expressed through social issues during the years the Obama administration highlighted/exploited them.  Now that we've shifted the hysterics from gay wedding cakes to President Putin, and he refuses to embrace that level of unholy stupidity, his liberalism gets much less expression.

[Tiberius]

Quote

 

Sen. Jeanne Shaheen (D-N.H.) on Tuesday called for the American translator present during President Trump's one-on-one meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin to tell Congress what was said.

"I believe the Senate Foreign Relations Committee should hold a hearing with the American translator who was present during President Trump and President Putin's private meeting to determine what was specifically discussed and agreed to on the United States's behalf," Shaheen, a member of the committee, said.

Trump and Putin had a private one-on-one meeting that reportedly lasted more than two hours on Monday before a shocking joint press conference.

 

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/397484-dem-senator-translator-in-trump-putin-meeting-should-tell-congress-what-was

 

sounds reasonable 

[3rdnlng]

6 hours ago, DC Tom said:

 

Hillary's not president... 

What? I can't hear you.

[3rdnlng]

6 hours ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

 

I don't have "loyalties", and neither should you. 

 

And we're not talking about "mistakes" we're talking about a long and storied history of taking direct intentional actions against the lives and interest of the American people.

 

Lying us into Iraq was not a "mistake".

 

The Bay of Pigs was not a "mistake."

 

MKUltra was not a "mistake".

 

Intentionally releasing the whooping cough in the Tampa Bay area was not a "mistake".

 

Intentionally infecting Guatemalans with  syphilis was not a "mistake".

 

Injecting unsuspecting US citizens with plutonium was not a "mistake".

 

Injecting prisoners with the main ingredient of Agent Orange was not a "mistake".

 

Choosing to protect and insulate known pedophiles in government was not a "mistake".

 

Dosing unsuspecting US citizens with LSD was not a "mistake".

 

Overthrowing the governments of Iran, Argentina, Guatemala, the Congo, the Dominican Republic, South Vietnam, and Chile was not a "mistake".

 

Running the global supply of opiates was not a "mistake".

 

These are just a few examples of absolutely egregious and criminal acts undertaken by these same agencies you're claiming it is your patriotic duty to trust, and owe allegiance to.

 

 

I'll tell you what a mistake was, me shorting aluminum foil stocks and not cornering the market on popcorn.

[Cinga]

6 hours ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

 

I don't have "loyalties", and neither should you. 

 

And we're not talking about "mistakes" we're talking about a long and storied history of taking direct intentional actions against the lives and interest of the American people.

 

Lying us into Iraq was not a "mistake".

 

The Bay of Pigs was not a "mistake."

 

MKUltra was not a "mistake".

 

 Intentionally releasing the whooping cough in the Tampa Bay area was not a "mistake".

 

Intentionally infecting Guatemalans with  syphilis was not a "mistake".

 

 Injecting unsuspecting US citizens with plutonium was not a "mistake".

 

 Injecting prisoners with the main ingredient of Agent Orange was not a "mistake".

 

Choosing to protect and insulate known pedophiles in government was not a "mistake".

 

Dosing unsuspecting US citizens with LSD was not a "mistake".

 

Overthrowing the governments of Iran, Argentina, Guatemala, the Congo, the Dominican Republic, South Vietnam, and Chile was not a "mistake".

 

 Running the global supply of opiates was not a "mistake".

 

These are just a few examples of absolutely egregious and criminal acts undertaken by these same agencies you're claiming it is your patriotic duty to trust, and owe allegiance to.

 

 

Great list! Hope you don't mind, I'm borrowing it... 

[3rdnlng]

24 minutes ago, Cinga said:

Great list! Hope you don't mind, I'm borrowing it... 

Oh come on now, your neighbors aren't that bad!

[keepthefaith]

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/397484-dem-senator-translator-in-trump-putin-meeting-should-tell-congress-what-was

 

sounds reasonable 

 

I'm just amazed at how much time and energy Congresscritters have to watch and critique every word and every move the President makes.  I suppose when you do your own job so completely and so well it affords you the time to do that. 

[GG]

3 hours ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

 

Actually, that's demonstrably untrue.

 

Both before and after the election this sub-forum was a haven of never Trump sentiment.

 

With diminishingly few exceptions, the posters here rejected the President's rhetoric, believed his policy positions absurd and destructive, and viewed him as boorish, grotesque, and otherwise unpalatable.

 

I myself was a never Trump libertarian who believed the President would destroy American conservatism in a way that would change the course of the country forever.

 

Greg (Deranged Rhino) was of a similar opinion, only he's further to the left than I am.

 

Something happened along the road to impeachment, however.  

 

Greg became aware of some information which he threw himself into as a research project, and  approached it with a zeal for true investigative journalism not often seen in today's media environment, and he shared his findings with us on a continuous and on going capacity.  He sourced it with absurd amounts of documentation, and made, over time, one of the most compelling arguments I've ever read anywhere.

 

He challenged us not to simply believe him, but to vet his work; trying to punch holes in it.

 

We did, and we tried.  But his argument was too strong, and his predictions became stunningly accurate.

 

As a result this forum because what you see it as today because of one man's work, and the willingness of others to seek truth with an open mind.

 

The argument has convinced more than it has not.

 

Basically.

 

I still think that Trump is a boorish thin skinned narcissist, but it's hard to argue with the results so far.

[Iron Maiden]

The idea of getting along with Russia in itself is not a bad one....however.....he can't seem to stop shouting himself in the foot........" I mispoke..." Really ?....what the hell are his advisers paid for ?....Their jobs is to stop that kind of embarrassing moments to happen.......

 

 

[row_33]

10 minutes ago, Iron Maiden said:

The idea of getting along with Russia in itself is not a bad one....however.....he can't seem to stop shouting himself in the foot........" I mispoke..." Really ?....what the hell are his advisers paid for ?....Their jobs is to stop that kind of embarrassing moments to happen.......

 

 

 

It doesn’t matter. Just another day of his haters freaking out. I don’t get it.

 

 

[keepthefaith]

12 minutes ago, Iron Maiden said:

The idea of getting along with Russia in itself is not a bad one....however.....he can't seem to stop shouting himself in the foot........" I mispoke..." Really ?....what the hell are his advisers paid for ?....Their jobs is to stop that kind of embarrassing moments to happen.......

 

 

 

Yeah but they don't stand at the podium with him when he's speaking.

[3rdnlng]

14 minutes ago, Iron Maiden said:

The idea of getting along with Russia in itself is not a bad one....however.....he can't seem to stop shouting himself in the foot........" I mispoke..." Really ?....what the hell are his advisers paid for ?....Their jobs is to stop that kind of embarrassing moments to happen.......

 

 

Maybe he should put his foot in his mouth instead.