Helsinki Summit

[DC Tom]

7 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

Only date the servers, don't manage them.

 

Life lessons.

 

 

And only with the Gregorian Calendar.  Never epoch time.

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

We all saw with our own eyes and heard with our own ears the President of the United States say that the intelligence service of his own country is not to be believed over a murdering dictator.  If you prefer to stand with Putin vs. our people feel free.  Ironically living in a great country like ours vs. what Putin runs gives you that right.

 

2003 called, they want their blind belief in the intelligence community back.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

our people

 

Which "our people?"

 

"our people" who were responsible for the bay of pigs? "our people" who falsified information on WMD in Iraq? "our people" who toppled the democratically elected government in Iran? "our people" who detained people at black sites in third world countries and waterboarded them? "our people" who were weaponized to attempt to overthrow our OWN president?

 

Yeah, I'm not sure which of "our people" I should be backing here.

 

[Deranged Rhino]

11 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

AFAIK the FBI was satisfied with everything that was provided to them for them to conduct an examination which seems pretty comprehensive in light of the 12 indictments this past Friday. 

(with nothing but respect)

 

That's the FBI's position, Comey was satisfied with not possessing the server and trusting CrowdStrike who was, in addition to being a contractor for the DNC and Clinton campaign, was also an FBI contractor. Those connections alone would cause any investigator worth their salt to pause - especially in light of the 10 day lapse between when the "hack(s)" took place and when it was reported to the FBI. Under normal circumstances this would look fishy - let alone the under the intense pressure of what was going on in 2016. 

 

When we're talking about the investigation into an attack on our elections by a foreign actor, in the middle of one of the more divisive campaigns in US history, this flub is egregious is it not? It can't be simply passed off as a non issue - not when Vault 7 calls into question every forensic conclusion drawn by the investigators. This decision by Comey NOT to take possession of the servers opened the FBI and the DNC up to all sorts of questions that deserve answers.

 

Answers that could have been provided without qualification had the FBI just examined the evidence for themselves directly. 

 

With the help of DNI Coats and NSA head Mike Rogers, we know for a fact that the FBI Counter Intelligence Division (CID) was illegally abusing FBI/NSA servers to spy on Americans without a warrant during this time period. We know, for a fact not speculation, that private government contractors were the source of this abuse. We also know, for a fact, that CrowdStrike was a government contractor working inside the CID at the time of these abuses. This is backed by mountains of evidence. 

 

It's a bit suspicious that every single "hack" and event in the narrative happened after Mike Rogers ordered an audit into these abuses inside the CID. If you're a government contractor who's breached national security by installing back door access onto FBI/NSA servers and found out the NSA is now going to investigate that breach - wouldn't there be extreme motivation for you to hide that evidence? And wouldn't an excuse to wipe the server completely be a perfect solution?

 

See. I have evidence to prove all that happened. I can prove there were abuses inside the CID. I can prove CrowdStrike had access. I can build a convincing case that shows it's possible - if not probable - that CrowdStrike created the persona of Guicifer 2.0 to get ahead of WikiLeaks' release of documents. 

 

What I can't prove is that the forensic evidence used by the FBI is legit because the original server was never turned over and all the evidence comes from a suspect of the investigation rather than an impartial investigative body like the FBI. 

 

In this environment, when discussing the most politically divisive scandal in US history, I most reasonable people would agree this isn't good enough. The FBI shouldn't have put themselves in a position where they had to trust the word of a third party contractor over being able to see the evidence directly for themselves. This gaffe, and it is a gaffe, in light of all the other revelations about what the FBI-CID was up to during that time frame raises reasonable doubt about the FBI and DNC's account. 

 

And Vault 7 raises reasonable doubt as to the findings in the most recent indictments. 

 

That's not conspiracy to suggest there's doubt. It's reality because of the way the FBI chose to handle the investigation. 

[4merper4mer]

10 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Not for nothin', but I'd like to manage a few servers from Hooters.

Look at the Russia changed my vote thread.  Lots of Catwoman gifs.  That will cover you.

12 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

Only date the servers, don't manage them.

 

Life lessons.

 

And when he's done he should wipe them clean.  Like with a cloth.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

3 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

 

And when he's done he should wipe them clean.  Like with a cloth.

 

Winning.

 

[Max Fischer]

1 hour ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

 

Link to the exact quote? 

 

Or maybe you're adding words and context that didn't exist - because dishonesty is your thing. 

 

This guy needs proof that Trump sided with Putin over the USA. Pick up a paper. Traitor-abetting has powerful side effects. 

 

[oldmanfan]

18 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

And only with the Gregorian Calendar.  Never epoch time.

 

2003 called, they want their blind belief in the intelligence community back.

So you also believe in Putin more than our own intelligence services.  Ok comrade.

[Deranged Rhino]

2 minutes ago, Max Fischer said:

 

This guy needs proof that Trump sided with Putin over the USA. Pick up a paper. Traitor-abetting has powerful side effects. 

 

 

So, you can't provide the quote that said what you said. Got it. 

 

Imagine that, in America asking for evidence of guilt before deciding one is guilty. Max doesn't believe in innocent until proven guilty I guess. 

[oldmanfan]

18 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

Which "our people?"

 

"our people" who were responsible for the bay of pigs? "our people" who falsified information on WMD in Iraq? "our people" who toppled the democratically elected government in Iran? "our people" who detained people at black sites in third world countries and waterboarded them? "our people" who were weaponized to attempt to overthrow our OWN president?

 

Yeah, I'm not sure which of "our people" I should be backing here.

 

Is our country completely clean?  No.  Should we stand with our country vs. a murdering dictator?  It's sad that question even needs to be asked of some here.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

Is our country completely clean?  No.  Should we stand with our country vs. a murdering dictator?  It's sad that question even needs to be asked of some here.

 

I stand with our country. Which is why I stand with OUR president, rather than unelected, unaccountable thugs within the IC.

 

[Deranged Rhino]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

So you also believe in Putin more than our own intelligence services.  Ok comrade.

 

To be fair, Oldmanfan, Trump never said he trusted Putin over the IC. He's clumsy with words, undoubtedly, but even his word salad didn't say that. 

 

He said he doesn't trust Putin. Putin says he doesn't trust Trump. Trump said he has confidence in his IC as well, and reiterated it afterwards: 

 

[DC Tom]

2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

So you also believe in Putin more than our own intelligence services.  Ok comrade.

 

No, I'm pointing out your hypocrisy.  Your rampantly stupid hypocrisy: taking the word of a murdering dictator in 2003, and casting the same aspersion now on others.

 

There's no deep, dualistic struggle of good vs. evil going on here.  There's no choosing of sides.  You're just deeply stupid.

[oldmanfan]

Just now, DC Tom said:

 

No, I'm pointing out your hypocrisy.  Your rampantly stupid hypocrisy: taking the word of a murdering dictator in 2003, and casting the same aspersion now on others.

 

There's no deep, dualistic struggle of good vs. evil going on here.  There's no choosing of sides.  You're just deeply stupid.

When exactly did I take the word of a murderous dictator in 2003?  And you call others stupid.  The height of hypocrisy.

[LB3]

[DC Tom]

2 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

To be fair, Oldmanfan, Trump never said he trusted Putin over the IC. He's clumsy with words, undoubtedly, but even his word salad didn't say that. 

 

He said he doesn't trust Putin. Putin says he doesn't trust Trump. Trump said he has confidence in his IC as well, and reiterated it afterwards: 

 

 

Too late, the narrative is set.  

 

Trump's second-biggest problem is the media misrepresenting everything he does and says.  His biggest problem is HIM misrepresenting everything he does and says.  Never in the entire history of human government has an executive so badly needed a potato-head-to-English translator.

[oldmanfan]

3 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

To be fair, Oldmanfan, Trump never said he trusted Putin over the IC. He's clumsy with words, undoubtedly, but even his word salad didn't say that. 

 

He said he doesn't trust Putin. Putin says he doesn't trust Trump. Trump said he has confidence in his IC as well, and reiterated it afterwards: 

 

I'm sooty but trying to rescue his inane comment with this tweet is ridiculous.  You don't honestly think he believes this vs. the statement he made in the pressers do you?

[DC Tom]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

When exactly did I take the word of a murderous dictator in 2003?  And you call others stupid.  The height of hypocrisy.

 

You supported the invasion of Iraq, then?

[Deranged Rhino]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

I'm sooty but trying to rescue his inane comment with this tweet is ridiculous.  You don't honestly think he believes this vs. the statement he made in the pressers do you?

 

Which statement? My point is that people are parsing his words rather than looking at what he actually said. 

 

Go by the transcript. Not the cut up soundbytes. 

 

https://www.vox.com/2018/7/16/17576956/transcript-putin-trump-russia-helsinki-press-conference

PUTIN: As to who is to be believed, who is not to be believed: you can trust no one. Where did you get this idea that President Trump trusts me or I trust him? He defends the interests of the United States of America and I do defend the interests of the Russian Federation.

[oldmanfan]

11 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

I stand with our country. Which is why I stand with OUR president, rather than unelected, unaccountable thugs within the IC.

 

The ones appointed by the president you love?

[Deranged Rhino]

 

(and this was one of the more interesting disclosures that no one picked up on)

 

TRUMP: Well, our militaries do get along. Our militaries have gotten along probably better than our political leaders for years. Our militaries do get along very well. They do coordinate in Syria and other places. Okay? Thank you.

 

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

The ones appointed by the president you love?

 

Don't be an idiot. This nonsense (the Russia collusion investigation) started under the auspices of Obama.

 

Stick to eating stewed prunes, old man. You're mind's obviously too addled for this subject matter.

 

[oldmanfan]

4 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

Which statement? My point is that people are parsing his words rather than looking at what he actually said. 

 

Go by the transcript. Not the cut up soundbytes. 

 

https://www.vox.com/2018/7/16/17576956/transcript-putin-trump-russia-helsinki-press-conference

PUTIN: As to who is to be believed, who is not to be believed: you can trust no one. Where did you get this idea that President Trump trusts me or I trust him? He defends the interests of the United States of America and I do defend the interests of the Russian Federation.

I listened to the entire thing as did you.  And you know the statement he made about Putin being strong about his denial, etc.  we all saw it and we all heard it.  Don't be obsequious about this, you're better than that.

Just now, joesixpack said:

 

Don't be an idiot. This nonsense (the Russia collusion investigation) started under the auspices of Obama.

 

Stick to eating stewed prunes, old man. You're mind's obviously too addled for this subject matter.

 

And continues under the investigation of a special prosecutor assigned by the guy who wrote the memo to get Comey fired.  All under the current administration.  You are just being ridiculous.

[Deranged Rhino]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

I listened to the entire thing as did you.  And you know the statement he made about Putin being strong about his denial, etc.  we all saw it and we all heard it.  Don't be obsequious about this, you're better than that.

 

I'm not trying to be. I'm trying to stick with what was actually said, rather than the hype about what was said: 

 

So I have great confidence in my intelligence people, but I will tell you that president Putin was extremely strong and powerful in his denial today. And what he did is an incredible offer. He offered to have the people working on the case come and work with their investigators, with respect to the 12 people. I think that’s an incredible offer. 

[Bray Wyatt]

1 minute ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

I'm not trying to be. I'm trying to stick with what was actually said, rather than the hype about what was said: 

 

So I have great confidence in my intelligence people, but I will tell you that president Putin was extremely strong and powerful in his denial today. And what he did is an incredible offer. He offered to have the people working on the case come and work with their investigators, with respect to the 12 people. I think that’s an incredible offer. 

 

It seemed to me he tried saying nice things about both parties without answering the question.

 

And like I said before, everyone and their mother knows the proper answer is to say our side. He didnt, and it was dumb, but I dont amount it to treason.

[DC Tom]

Just now, Bray Wyatt said:

 

It seemed to me he tried saying nice things about both parties without answering the question.

 

And like I said before, everyone and their mother knows the proper answer is to say our side. He didnt, and it was dumb, but I dont amount it to treason.

 

But you know what does amount to treason?  Two scoops of ice cream...

[Deranged Rhino]

Just now, Bray Wyatt said:

 

It seemed to me he tried saying nice things about both parties without answering the question.

 

And like I said before, everyone and their mother knows the proper answer is to say our side. He didnt, and it was dumb, but I dont amount it to treason.

 

Correct. 

 

Doc also pointed out the key cause as well. Trump has a clear division between Russian meddling (which he's never denied happened, and repeated in the presser) and Russian "hacking" (which he has always taken - rightfully so - as an argument he colluded with Putin and thus his win wasn't legitimate). He just doesn't make that line clear when he goes off on an answer, thus the point gets muddled. 

[Bray Wyatt]

Just now, DC Tom said:

 

But you know what does amount to treason?  Two scoops of ice cream...

 

if everyone else only gets one, absolutely! It's what Hitler would do!

[DC Tom]

1 minute ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

Correct. 

 

Doc also pointed out the key cause as well. Trump has a clear division between Russian meddling (which he's never denied happened, and repeated in the presser) and Russian "hacking" (which he has always taken - rightfully so - as an argument he colluded with Putin and thus his win wasn't legitimate). He just doesn't make that line clear when he goes off on an answer, thus the point gets muddled. 

 

Has anyone made that point clear?  The media thrives on the confusion of it.

[Deranged Rhino]

Another important revelation about the summit that no one is noticing (because: treason!)

 

 

 

Iran's next. Russia's on board. 

[keepthefaith]

13 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I'm sooty but trying to rescue his inane comment with this tweet is ridiculous.  You don't honestly think he believes this vs. the statement he made in the pressers do you?

 

I'm not defending Trump as he certainly could have articulated his position better on the matter than he did, which is often the case on any given topic.  He did speak before going into the meeting and stated that he did have confidence in US intelligence. 

 

The media is simply seizing on his bumbled post meeting presser. 

 

In the end what he said changes nothing.  Somebody stole documents from vulnerable US political people and orgs during 2016.  Obama and co. knew about it then and either willfully ignored it or chose just to bark a little at Putin.  We launched an investigation into the matter and filed charges against a dozen Russians and Putin denies they are responsible.  Putin has gotten the message that we're pissed.  Trump had no impact on what happened with regard to this before he was President and in terms of the relationship between our countries, there are bigger fish to fry unless this happens again. 

[Max Fischer]

24 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

So, you can't provide the quote that said what you said. Got it. 

 

Imagine that, in America asking for evidence of guilt before deciding one is guilty. Max doesn't believe in innocent until proven guilty I guess. 

 

This guy believes all the criticism was made up out of whole cloth. Dozens of top Republicans, Fox News commentators and literally thousands of articles slamming what Trump said and this guy says Trump said nothing about Russian election interference and absolving Putin. It's all just made up.  

 

Next, this guy will say that what Russia/Putin did was in the best interest of the USA. 

[Deranged Rhino]

2 minutes ago, Max Fischer said:

 

This guy believes all the criticism was made up out of whole cloth. Dozens of top Republicans, Fox News commentators and literally thousands of articles slamming what Trump said and this guy says Trump said nothing about Russian election interference and absolving Putin. It's all just made up.  

 

Next, this guy will say that what Russia/Putin did was in the best interest of the USA. 

 

That's not at all what I said. I merely asked you to provide the exact words of the quote you attributed to Trump. And you can't do it. 

 

Is that because you're lying and taking things out of context?

 

Yup. 

 

But carry on. You've exposed yourself as being a dishonest asshat who's not interested in a serious discussion. 

[DC Tom]

2 minutes ago, Max Fischer said:

Next, this guy will say that what Russia/Putin did was in the best interest of the USA. 

 

Hillary's not president... 

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, keepthefaith said:

 

I'm not defending Trump as he certainly could have articulated his position better on the matter than he did, which is often the case on any given topic.  He did speak before going into the meeting and stated that he did have confidence in US intelligence. 

 

The media is simply seizing on his bumbled post meeting presser. 

 

In the end what he said changes nothing.  Somebody stole documents from vulnerable US political people and orgs during 2016.  Obama and co. knew about it then and either willfully ignored it or chose just to bark a little at Putin.  We launched an investigation into the matter and filed charges against a dozen Russians and Putin denies they are responsible.  Putin has gotten the message that we're pissed.  Trump had no impact on what happened with regard to this before he was President and in terms of the relationship between our countries, there are bigger fish to fry unless this happens again. 

I disagree about bigger fish to fry.  We are talking about the sovereignty of our country and our electoral system.  If that falls into question the whole basis for our system of government comes into question.

[Gary M]

Just now, DC Tom said:

 

Hillary's not president... 

 

 

I love that sentence  ❤️

[Deranged Rhino]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

I disagree about bigger fish to fry.  We are talking about the sovereignty of our country and our electoral system.  If that falls into question the whole basis for our system of government comes into question.

 

And as we discussed the other day, simultaneously the NSA was discovering an illegal political spying ring operating inside the FBI and DOJ for the purposes of spying on the political opposition of the administration. 

 

That too threatens the entire basis of our republic by robbing the people of their voice in the process. 

 

Yet... we're only talking about one of those events. Why?

[26CornerBlitz]

13 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

Correct. 

 

Doc also pointed out the key cause as well. Trump has a clear division between Russian meddling (which he's never denied happened, and repeated in the presser) and Russian "hacking" (which he has always taken - rightfully so - as an argument he colluded with Putin and thus his win wasn't legitimate). He just doesn't make that line clear when he goes off on an answer, thus the point gets muddled. 

 

This simply is not true. He has said it could have been China or a 400 lb guy in his basement.   He has indeed cast doubt on the Russians being the perpetrators and did so again yesterday by saying Putin strongly denied it and he sees no reason why they would have. 

Edited July 17, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz

[Deranged Rhino]

Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

This simply is not true. He has said it could have been China or a 400 lb guy in his basement.   He has indeed cast doubt on the Russians being the perpetrators and did so again yesterday by saying Putin strongly denied it and he sees no reason why the would have. 

 

He's said many, many times Russia meddled. He's equivocated on hacking without making that distinction clear. 

 

The two charges are different. I, for example, do not and never have denied Russia meddled. I have HIGH suspicions that they did not hack the DNC or DCCC or Clinton servers (and these suspicions are backed by evidence, not just conjecture). Trump feels the same, and bungles clarifying that. 

 

 

 

*******************

FYI: Trump to speak to leaders on the Hill (and make a public statement) in 20 min. 

[Max Fischer]

1 minute ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

That's not at all what I said. I merely asked you to provide the exact words of the quote you attributed to Trump. And you can't do it. 

 

Is that because you're lying and taking things out of context?

 

Yup. 

 

But carry on. You've exposed yourself as being a dishonest asshat who's not interested in a serious discussion. 

 

So, it never happened? Trump didn't take Putin's word for it? Trump said nothing that was concerning to you?  Maybe even admit Trump made a mistake? Do you even know why Republicans are upset?

 

 

6 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

Hillary's not president... 

 

At least you admit you are OK with Putin/Russian electoral interference.  

[Bray Wyatt]

Just now, Max Fischer said:

 

So, it never happened? Trump didn't take Putin's word for it? Trump said nothing that was concerning to you?  Maybe even admit Trump made a mistake? Do you even know why Republicans are upset?

 

 

 

Why dont you read/post the quote and tell us what you think and why?