Jarvis Landry says Tyrod Taylor looks "amazing"

[Shaw66]

32 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Illogical, perhaps, but to me it would be worse.  I still struggle with trading up to draft TJ Graham when Russ Wilson was still on the board, and then not making a move for Kirk Cousins.  So it's going to be hard for me to let go of if Allen busts but Rosen shines, or if TT looks great in Cleveland while Allen is deemed not ready and we don't have a servicable QB (if TT shines while AJ or Peterman are capable, I don't care).

Me too.  I was beyond excited when the Bills traded up in the third round, because I was sure they'd take Wilson.  And I was convinced Cousins was the right move.   I never ran the numbers, but I think they simply concluded that they couldn't afford to bet it all on Cousins, given their cap situation.  

 

Tyrod shines this year and the Bills are on SOME logical path at QB, I'm okay even if 2018 is somewhat ugly.  

 

I've convinced myself the defense is going to be very good this season, and I'm expecting the team to be .500 or better.   

[Hapless Bills Fan]

20 minutes ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

Why are you defending this guy STILL:? He only had one 300 yard passing game here, and for good reason... he can't sustain a passing offense. Scoring offense rank? Please... The Tyrod sycophants are still trying to defend this guy.

 

I can't really speak for Happy Days, but I think his point is to provide factual information, and I see the situation is less "syncophants" "defending" Taylor, as folks who react to exaggerated takes.    The point is, TT DID generate offense for us, and a reasonable amount - just not the way many traditional passing QB do it (run + pass vs pass only)

You might note that Days says things that aren't particularly "syncophant" like and don't really look like defending Taylor, such as "I'm sure that's a lower % than most NFL QBs"

 

But then, I've attempted the same sort of "inject facts" intermezzo myself so perhaps I'm also defined as a "Tyrod syncophant" to you.  Perhaps your definition of "syncophant" is "anyone who says anything remotely positive or not entirely negative about Tyrod"

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

14 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Me too.  I was beyond excited when the Bills traded up in the third round, because I was sure they'd take Wilson.  And I was convinced Cousins was the right move.   I never ran the numbers, but I think they simply concluded that they couldn't afford to bet it all on Cousins, given their cap situation.  

 

Tyrod shines this year and the Bills are on SOME logical path at QB, I'm okay even if 2018 is somewhat ugly.  

 

I've convinced myself the defense is going to be very good this season, and I'm expecting the team to be .500 or better.   

 

I think the Bills did intend to make a FA play for Cousins and that waswhy they made all the off-season "free up 2019 cap" moves.  (One can easily give a guy a big contract that isn't such a huge cap hit in the first year, by putting most of his first year into a signing bonus amortized over 4-5 years.)  I think Cousins wanted a landing spot where he felt he could shine immediately, and he ruled Buffalo out PDQ.  He wanted to have faith in the OC, the OL, and the WR corps.  As soon as Wood got the "mandatory retirement" news, we became 0 for 3 in Cousins book.  Daboll's record as an NFL OC doesn't inspire confidence, and we lack a top-10 WR.

 

But that's not what I meant actually - I was referencing the 2012 draft.  When they traded up and took TJ Graham, I was all "whoa, cool, they plan to trade up again in the 4th and draft Cousins!"    Of course, I was shocked like everyone else when the Redskins doubled-down on QB in that draft, so maybe our FO was caught by surprise.  Buddy said a lot of things afterwards about if you want a QB you have to over-draft them, which made me think they believed they could stand pat and take either Cousins or Wilson in the 4th and were taken aback when they couldn't.

[Teddy KGB]

28 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

TT DID generate offense for us, and a reasonable amount - just not the way many traditional passing QB do it (run + pass vs pass only)
 

 

I don’t think this applies to the 2018 season 

 

The signature TT no show reared it’s head one too many times.  

 

Edited July 9, 2018 by Teddy KGB

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

I don’t think this applies to the 2018 season

 

You're correct.  Was it my clever use of the past tense "did" that clued you in?

[Shaw66]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think the Bills did intend to make a FA play for Cousins and that was in part why they made all the off-season "free up 2019 cap" moves.  (One can easily give a guy a big contract that isn't such a huge cap hit in the first year, by putting most of his first year into a signing bonus amortized over 4 years.)  I think Cousins and his team ruled Buffalo out PDQ, and I don't blame him; I think he wanted to go somewhere where he had faith in the OC, the OL, and the WR corps.  As soon as Wood got the "mandatory retirement" news, we became 0 for 3 in Cousins book.  Daboll's record as an NFL OC doesn't inspire confidence, and we lack a top-10 WR.

 

But that's not what I meant actually - I was referencing the 2012 draft.  When they traded up and took TJ Graham, I was all "whoa, cool, they plan to trade up again in the 4th and draft Cousins!"    Of course, I was shocked like everyone else when the Redskins doubled-down on QB in that draft, so maybe our FO was caught by surprise.  Buddy said a lot of things afterwards about if you want a QB you have to over-draft them, which made me think they believed they could stand pat and take either Cousins or Wilson in the 4th and were taken aback when they couldn't.

Ohhh.   I wasn't at all a Cousins fan in the draft.   That's an interesting take.  

 

Maybe you're right about Cousins in free agency.   I have a different take.   I think Cousins is all about system, and I was guessing that therefore McDermott was high on his list.  I guessed that Cousins didn't care so much about any of the short-term issues - he wasn't in win-now mode.   I think he wanted the right place for him and his family, right including a serious shot at long-term success.  

 

I think the Bills took themselves out of the auction.   Beane is very clear that he believes that the opportunities come to you, and you shouldn't make moves that put you in a hole because you believe there's some great opportunity out there.   So, for example, he was clear that he was willing to make moves in the draft this year, but he was NOT willing to give up 2019 picks to make a move.   That is, even if there was a guy he wanted, he wouldn't mortgage the future to get him.  And he's also been clear that he believes the draft is where you can good talent cheap.   (I think he and the whole league learned an important lesson when they saw the success the Seahawks had accumulating a lot of low-priced talent in the draft.)   

 

I put all that together, and I think Beane decided he wasn't going to be a player for Cousins.   He didn't want to put himself in a much deeper cap hole than he already was in, and he had confidence that good things would happen in the draft.    Probably when he decided to pass on Cousins, he also decided to trade Taylor, because he'd long since decided Taylor wasn't their guy, and trading him then would position Beane even better in the draft.   

 

 

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

You're correct.  Was it my clever use of the past tends "did" that clued you in?

Your clever use of the past tense was clear.   Your clever use the past "tends," on the other hand, was just a bit befuddling!

[JohnC]

8 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Ohhh.   I wasn't at all a Cousins fan in the draft.   That's an interesting take.  

 

Maybe you're right about Cousins in free agency.   I have a different take.   I think Cousins is all about system, and I was guessing that therefore McDermott was high on his list.  I guessed that Cousins didn't care so much about any of the short-term issues - he wasn't in win-now mode.   I think he wanted the right place for him and his family, right including a serious shot at long-term success.  

 

I think the Bills took themselves out of the auction.   Beane is very clear that he believes that the opportunities come to you, and you shouldn't make moves that put you in a hole because you believe there's some great opportunity out there.   So, for example, he was clear that he was willing to make moves in the draft this year, but he was NOT willing to give up 2019 picks to make a move.   That is, even if there was a guy he wanted, he wouldn't mortgage the future to get him.  And he's also been clear that he believes the draft is where you can good talent cheap.   (I think he and the whole league learned an important lesson when they saw the success the Seahawks had accumulating a lot of low-priced talent in the draft.)   

 

I put all that together, and I think Beane decided he wasn't going to be a player for Cousins.   He didn't want to put himself in a much deeper cap hole than he already was in, and he had confidence that good things would happen in the draft.    Probably when he decided to pass on Cousins, he also decided to trade Taylor, because he'd long since decided Taylor wasn't their guy, and trading him then would position Beane even better in the draft.   

 

 

 

I live in the DC/Md area. Based on the never ending coverage of the Cousins saga relating to his future destination it was very obvious that Cousins had little interest in going to Buffalo. That is not to say that Buffalo didn't have a serious interest in him. The reality was that the free agent qb had nearly zilch interest in Buffalo. And the Bills very early on recognized that also. . 

 

I agree with you that early on in their tenure both Beane and McDermott  came to the conclusion that Taylor was not the answer at qb. Whaley came to that decision the previous year but at the time he lost his authority to McDermott who wasn't ready to make a final determination on the qb issue at the time.  The only issue for them was how best to parlay their asset. Getting a third round pick from Cleveland for a qb that they didn't want worked out unexpectedly well for us while also addressing a short term need for Cleveland. 

 

As you seem to allude to McBeane made a decision to accumulate draft picks and use those added assets to move up in the draft to get their future franchise qb. That's exactly what they did. This regime mapped out a strategy on addressing the qb issue. When all was said and done they terrifically executed their plan. On this issue they were tactically and strategically deft. Kudos to them.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

53 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Ohhh.   I wasn't at all a Cousins fan in the draft.   That's an interesting take.  

 

Mind you, at the time I was not really studying college QB at all.  I just wanted the Bills to take a shot and draft a QB in one of the 1st 4 rounds and not put all their eggs in the Fitzpatrick basket.

 

Quote

Maybe you're right about Cousins in free agency.   I have a different take.   I think Cousins is all about system, and I was guessing that therefore McDermott was high on his list.  I guessed that Cousins didn't care so much about any of the short-term issues - he wasn't in win-now mode.   I think he wanted the right place for him and his family, right including a serious shot at long-term success.  

 

The reports I've read on Cousins is that he's obsessive about doing research, and "he does research on his research".  One person described him as having a binder on each potential team including in-depth breakdown on their OLs (including the backups and college scouting) and WRs (ditto), extensive notes on their offensive system and offensive coaching tendencies, resume's of all their assistants etc etc.  I can't find that link right now, I'll loop back and insert it if I find it.

 

I don't think that's describing a guy who is "all about system" and doesn't care about short-term issues.  I think it is describing a guy whose idea of "right place for him" includes "at least some of the right pieces in place on offense".

 

I could be wrong, and I'm sure every team in the market for a QB this off season is all "we took ourselves out".  And both could be true - FA have been known to change their mind about what "right place" means when the stack of money gets too high to ignore, and the Bills could have been "no, we have our price and we're not going to stack up more $$ to overcome our perceived shortcomings", which would quickly lead to mutual non-interest.

 

 

[Shaw66]

Hapless -

 

Good info about what Cousins was thinking.   Thanks. 

[LABILLBACKER]

....he always looks amazing until the 4th qtr....."coffee is for closers"....

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

I can't really speak for Happy Days, but I think his point is to provide factual information, and I see the situation is less "syncophants" "defending" Taylor, as folks who react to exaggerated takes.    The point is, TT DID generate offense for us, and a reasonable amount - just not the way many traditional passing QB do it (run + pass vs pass only

 

Exactly. I guess providing data is now considered being a sycophant. I was ready to move on from Tyrod, his time here was over. But everyone has convinced themselves our offense was awful the whole time he was here. That very clearly was not the case. It's entirely possible he plays well enough this year that Mayfield doesn't start a single game. It's also possible he continues his downward trend and has the worst season of his career.

 

I'm also not sure why people are saying Tyrod always looked great in the offseason. My memory is that his offseasons were pretty average at best. We should prepare for the possibility that Tyrod outplays whoever our starter is this year. Even if that happens that doesn't mean we made the wrong move trading him away and drafting Josh Allen. I'm not here to root for the Bills to look stupid, but I'm also not going to ignore the reality that Tyrod has arguably the best supporting cast he's ever had and will be in an offense designed for his skill set. If that makes me a sycophant so be it.

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Mind you, at the time I was not really studying college QB at all.  I just wanted the Bills to take a shot and draft a QB in one of the 1st 4 rounds and not put all their eggs in the Fitzpatrick basket.

 

 

The reports I've read on Cousins is that he's obsessive about doing research, and "he does research on his research".  One person described him as having a binder on each potential team including in-depth breakdown on their OLs (including the backups and college scouting) and WRs (ditto), extensive notes on their offensive system and offensive coaching tendencies, resume's of all their assistants etc etc.  I can't find that link right now, I'll loop back and insert it if I find it.

 

I don't think that's describing a guy who is "all about system" and doesn't care about short-term issues.  I think it is describing a guy whose idea of "right place for him" includes "at least some of the right pieces in place on offense".

 

I could be wrong, and I'm sure every team in the market for a QB this off season is all "we took ourselves out".  And both could be true - FA have been known to change their mind about what "right place" means when the stack of money gets too high to ignore, and the Bills could have been "no, we have our price and we're not going to stack up more $$ to overcome our perceived shortcomings", which would quickly lead to mutual non-interest.

 

 

This is just one link addressing his obsessive behavior when preparing. As a player and person he is all in. 

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/11/29/kirk-cousins-washington-redskins-quarterback

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, JohnC said:

This is just one link addressing his obsessive behavior when preparing. As a player and person he is all in. 

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/11/29/kirk-cousins-washington-redskins-quarterback

 

Great find, JohnC, Thanks!

 

Oh.  My.  God.   All I can say is if this guy finds playoff success with Minn., he 100% deserves it.

 

LOL at "Cousins is football’s equivalent of food that tastes better than it looks—human hummus, as it were."

"The professional agitator Colin Cowherd recently employed his own food analogy, comparing the Skins’ QB to oatmeal. And what of it? Oatmeal may be bland and boring and downright unquarterbacklike. But oatmeal is steady. Oatmeal can be depended on. Oatmeal has gotten teams to Super Bowls."

[ngbills]

3 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Exactly. I guess providing data is now considered being a sycophant. I was ready to move on from Tyrod, his time here was over. But everyone has convinced themselves our offense was awful the whole time he was here. That very clearly was not the case. It's entirely possible he plays well enough this year that Mayfield doesn't start a single game. It's also possible he continues his downward trend and has the worst season of his career.

 

I'm also not sure why people are saying Tyrod always looked great in the offseason. My memory is that his offseasons were pretty average at best. We should prepare for the possibility that Tyrod outplays whoever our starter is this year. Even if that happens that doesn't mean we made the wrong move trading him away and drafting Josh Allen. I'm not here to root for the Bills to look stupid, but I'm also not going to ignore the reality that Tyrod has arguably the best supporting cast he's ever had and will be in an offense designed for his skill set. If that makes me a sycophant so be it.

It is selective memory. Tyrod did some good things and some bad things. I think he is a good QB for a team that has a lack of weapons or OL because he can improvise. But a team being built for a more traditional passing attack there are better options if you can find them. But that should not get turned into he is awful and everyone knows it. He has obvious value as the Bills gave him a decent contract and Browns wound up trading some decent value for him. The Browns players and former Bills players still say he was a good player. But us message board folks are the real experts. We can alter the facts to create new realities. 

 

[fansince88]

9 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

You state this as if to suggest Allen is a known commodity of high quality.

 

He isn't, and may well prove to be worse than Tyrod.

 

 

I say this to state this. It was time to nove on from Tyrod and they got paid for him and got a top rated draft pick. While we dont know what we have in Josh we know what we had in Tyrod. Im willing to take a chance.

10 hours ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Nah, it got us Edmunds.

True.

[3rdand12]

11 hours ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

I want to hear what Landry has to say when he has 4 catches for 47 yard after week 3 and they are 0-3.

how about if Landry has 4 catches for 47 yards after week 3 two for TD and they are 2-1 ?

[JohnC]

19 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Great find, JohnC, Thanks!

 

Oh.  My.  God.   All I can say is if this guy finds playoff success with Minn., he 100% deserves it.

 

LOL at "Cousins is football’s equivalent of food that tastes better than it looks—human hummus, as it were."

"The professional agitator Colin Cowherd recently employed his own food analogy, comparing the Skins’ QB to oatmeal. And what of it? Oatmeal may be bland and boring and downright unquarterbacklike. But oatmeal is steady. Oatmeal can be depended on. Oatmeal has gotten teams to Super Bowls."

When Cousins was leaving Michigan State to begin his pro career he personally wrote a thank you note to all of the athletic staff. Most of the recipients were the support staff that included the secretaries and grunts in the department. He's very religious and doesn't just talk about it but lives it. He can come off a bit sanctimonious but I'll always give the benefit of the doubt to those who practice what they preach. 

 

I always believed that Buddy Nix was going to draft either Cousins or Wilson in that draft year but he waited too long. My inclination was that the country GM was eyeing Cousins and was going to select him with his next round pick. Shanahan surprised Buddy by taking Cousins in the fourth round after he already drafted RG III in a blockbuster deal in the first round. Shanahan never wanted to give up assets to draft RG III. It was the owner who ordered the selection.  It was no secret in Washington that Shanahan favored Cousins over Griffin. That certainly was a factor why Griffin was so reluctant to let Cousins come in to replace him even when he was hurt. Shanahan's son coached the qbs and was involved with the offense. He loved Cousins and was openly contemptuous of RG III. Another reason why Griffin was not trustful of the coaching staff.  

 

I strongly believe that if Cousins would have been drafted by Buffalo it would have dramatically altered the direction of this franchise. Not so much because Cousins is great but because it would have solidified the qb position and given us the opportunity to build around a legitimate franchise qb. I also believe that with Cousins Marrone would have stayed and Rex would not have had an opportunity to eviscerate the team. 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/17/sports/ncaafootball/michigan-states-cousins-finds-right-delivery-on-and-off-field.html

[3rdand12]

7 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think the Bills did intend to make a FA play for Cousins and that waswhy they made all the off-season "free up 2019 cap" moves.  (One can easily give a guy a big contract that isn't such a huge cap hit in the first year, by putting most of his first year into a signing bonus amortized over 4-5 years.)  I think Cousins wanted a landing spot where he felt he could shine immediately, and he ruled Buffalo out PDQ.  He wanted to have faith in the OC, the OL, and the WR corps.  As soon as Wood got the "mandatory retirement" news, we became 0 for 3 in Cousins book.  Daboll's record as an NFL OC doesn't inspire confidence, and we lack a top-10 WR.

 

But that's not what I meant actually - I was referencing the 2012 draft.  When they traded up and took TJ Graham, I was all "whoa, cool, they plan to trade up again in the 4th and draft Cousins!"    Of course, I was shocked like everyone else when the Redskins doubled-down on QB in that draft, so maybe our FO was caught by surprise.  Buddy said a lot of things afterwards about if you want a QB you have to over-draft them, which made me think they believed they could stand pat and take either Cousins or Wilson in the 4th and were taken aback when they couldn't.

I have to agree about being attractive to Cousin's. I had prying away Foles on my mind as well. as far as FA was to play out.
 Bills played the hand dealt fairly well imo .

 sorry i am bit off topic

6 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Ohhh.   I wasn't at all a Cousins fan in the draft.   That's an interesting take.  

 

Maybe you're right about Cousins in free agency.   I have a different take.   I think Cousins is all about system, and I was guessing that therefore McDermott was high on his list.  I guessed that Cousins didn't care so much about any of the short-term issues - he wasn't in win-now mode.   I think he wanted the right place for him and his family, right including a serious shot at long-term success.  

 

I think the Bills took themselves out of the auction.   Beane is very clear that he believes that the opportunities come to you, and you shouldn't make moves that put you in a hole because you believe there's some great opportunity out there.   So, for example, he was clear that he was willing to make moves in the draft this year, but he was NOT willing to give up 2019 picks to make a move.   That is, even if there was a guy he wanted, he wouldn't mortgage the future to get him.  And he's also been clear that he believes the draft is where you can good talent cheap.   (I think he and the whole league learned an important lesson when they saw the success the Seahawks had accumulating a lot of low-priced talent in the draft.)   

 

I put all that together, and I think Beane decided he wasn't going to be a player for Cousins.   He didn't want to put himself in a much deeper cap hole than he already was in, and he had confidence that good things would happen in the draft.    Probably when he decided to pass on Cousins, he also decided to trade Taylor, because he'd long since decided Taylor wasn't their guy, and trading him then would position Beane even better in the draft.   

 

 

Your clever use of the past tense was clear.   Your clever use the past "tends," on the other hand, was just a bit befuddling!

 a very nice opinion that differs , but still makes good use of what if logic !
 

 Bolded cracked me up

 

Thanks both and All for the good roundabout here ☺️

[3rdand12]

4 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Exactly. I guess providing data is now considered being a sycophant. I was ready to move on from Tyrod, his time here was over. But everyone has convinced themselves our offense was awful the whole time he was here. That very clearly was not the case. It's entirely possible he plays well enough this year that Mayfield doesn't start a single game. It's also possible he continues his downward trend and has the worst season of his career.

 

I'm also not sure why people are saying Tyrod always looked great in the offseason. My memory is that his offseasons were pretty average at best. We should prepare for the possibility that Tyrod outplays whoever our starter is this year. Even if that happens that doesn't mean we made the wrong move trading him away and drafting Josh Allen. I'm not here to root for the Bills to look stupid, but I'm also not going to ignore the reality that Tyrod has arguably the best supporting cast he's ever had and will be in an offense designed for his skill set. If that makes me a sycophant so be it.

well then.
so be it, you Ole Sycophant you.

 whatever the hell that word means ^? you be YOU Happy Days !! that's the way we like ya

[Punching Bag]

3 hours ago, JohnC said:

This is just one link addressing his obsessive behavior when preparing. As a player and person he is all in. 

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/11/29/kirk-cousins-washington-redskins-quarterback

 

And shows why in Washington he felt disrespected:

Because Kirk Cousins is Kirk Cousins, he desperately wanted an office. That is what he asked of the

CENSORED, and that is what they gave him: a windowless nook with gray filing cabinets and ample storage space, tucked off the lobby at 21300 CENSORED Park Drive.

 

You have a QB who wants an office for he treats the job as a full time job and you give him a windowless nook?  If need be they should have remodeled locker room area to give him an office with one wall entirely a TV telling him "we consider you an executive since we pay you like one."

 

I wonder what office he got from Minnesota in contract negotiations.

And talk about process. Coach McD should have tried to talk him into being the first player-OC.

 

The accountant-athlete spends hours each week inside this cubicle, which speaks to his—favorite-word alert—process, which megaphone-shouts to his singular obsession: not playing football, but getting ready for it. Former coach Mike Shanahan says he noticed that fixation immediately after the Redskins took Cousins in the fourth round of the 2012 NFL draft—exactly 100 picks after they used the No. 2 choice on QB Robert Griffin III. At the end of that summer’s training camp, with Griffin entrenched as the starter, Shanahan pulled Cousins aside. “With what you’ve shown me, you could have a Drew Brees-type career,” he told the backup. Cousins never forgot those words, an affirmation of his ethos. “Mike didn’t just show me that process matters,” Cousins says. “He showed me that my process works.”

[JohnC]

25 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

And shows why in Washington he felt disrespected:

 

 

 

You have a QB who wants an office for he treats the job as a full time job and you give him a windowless nook?  If need be they should have remodeled locker room area to give him an office with one wall entirely a TV telling him "we consider you an executive since we pay you like one."

 

I wonder what office he got from Minnesota in contract negotiations.

Cousins wasn't disrespected. He got whatever he wanted. In hindsight, the franchise made a mistake in low balling him in contract negotiations when they could have secured his services. Cousins and his agent leveraged that mistake of not locking him up when it had the opportunity to do so. Playing hardball for a few million $$$$ ended up costing the organization and their ability to retain him. So Cousins and his agent devised a strategy that forced the organization to franchise him in order to keep him off the market. They were forced to do it two consecutive times. So Cousins ended up with premium franchise money and still had the ability to seek the market in the not too distant future. 

 

Cousins may be a saintly person but from a business standpoint he was a cold blooded killer. He was going to leverage his contract status to the max without considering any hometown discount. For him that shipped had sailed. In the end he played the system like a maestro. His contract in Minnesota is guaranteed and the length is short enough where he will have an another opportunity to hit the free agent market again when he is still in his prime. When all is said and done he legally worked the system to his maximum advantage. 

 

The issue of respect or not was irrelevant in this case. It was all about business and maximizing the situation to your benefit. 

Edited July 9, 2018 by JohnC

[transplantbillsfan]

11 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Trans....not really true.  In the games Watkins played with Taylor, in 2015 with 14 games played it was 6.7 targets per game.  In 2016 with 8 games played, it was 6.5 targets per game.

 

Wow, those stats are incomplete, misleading and inconclusive.

 

They're also incorrect; 2015 was 12 games played with Taylor, not 14. And Taylor targeted Sammy 91 times in those 12 games. That's 7.6 targets per game, and you'll notice the 2 games with the lowest targets include the very first game they ever played and a game in which Sammy got injured halfway through the 1st quarter after having already been targeted twice. 

 

And I mentioned the opportunity to develop some trust with an Elite WR.

 

1st 6 games with Taylor in 2015- 5.7 Targets per game

Last 6 games with Taylor in 2015- 9.5 Targets per game 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WatkSa00/gamelog/2015/

 

Considering how little Buffalo threw the ball during Taylor's tenure, nearly 10 targets per game is significant. Julio Jones and AJ Green averaged 10 targets per game once or twice so far in their careers and both of their teams threw more than Buffalo.

 

And if you really want to use Sammy's 2016 targets as part of this argument, you can, but I think most objective observers would have seen that Sammy was a shell of himself until maybe the end of the season. But even looking at the season as Sammy gets healthy, there's a significant difference as Taylor's last game ever throwing to Sammy was in the double digits for targets.

 

I completely understand why we moved on from Taylor and I'm excited to see what Allen can do. But Taylor is, at the moment, set up with weapons that can potentially really elevate his game in Cleveland this year.

Edited July 10, 2018 by transplantbillsfan

[Putin]

On 7/7/2018 at 10:38 AM, MJS said:

Tyrod is the best QB Landry has played with in the NFL. But that's not saying much.

Really? 

4 years in Miami 400 receptions and over 4000 yards , ( with bad QB’s ) 

Just imagine how many receptions & receiving yard J L will have in Cleveland playing ( for the first time ) with the best QB he had ever played !!! 

 

 

 

 

 

[JoPar_v2]

Landry’s hatred for the Dolphins and Tannehill in particular is well known by now. Doesn't surprise me that he’d talk up TT just for another opportunity to throw some more indirect shade on his former QB.

 

Needless to say, I don’t believe his opinions on Tyrod are 100% honest.

[xxxxxxxx]

12 minutes ago, Putin said:

Really? 

4 years in Miami 400 receptions and over 4000 yards , ( with bad QB’s ) 

Just imagine how many receptions & receiving yard J L will have in Cleveland playing ( for the first time ) with the best QB he had ever played !!! 

 

 

 

 

 

And he's entering his prime. It will be fun to see what they can do together. Seriously, some folk on here need to get their heads checked and realise that their are other teams in the league that are not the bills. If Landry plays well alot of weight will be taken of Tyrods shoulders, and its Cleveland people, optimism is all they have.

[Shaw66]

6 hours ago, JohnC said:

This is just one link addressing his obsessive behavior when preparing. As a player and person he is all in. 

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/11/29/kirk-cousins-washington-redskins-quarterback

This is the article that convinced me he was perfect for McB.  24-7-365 and a religious family man. I think he was made for McDermott and I would have expected Cousins to value that.  

 

I guess not.  

[Lfod]

I think that Tyrod has actually done well for himself. Take in to account the draft position and being a backup for awhile. Went from backup to playoff QB even while getting benched his last season for the team. 

 

He is now with a team that wants to support him. People on this board say he has a real talent pool to work with. So the Tyrod story lives on for another season. It will be interesting to see the outcome.

 

I think Tyrod was exposed last season. At times the outcome was just ideal but never spectacular. I felt like Tyrod was never dominant just adequate. If your defense gets that many turn overs in games you should be obliterating other teams and not just holding on. 

 

Even Bortles was ripping off the running yards to put points on the board when my man Tyrod just looked stumped. 

 

Last season was the test. The running QB with Shady game wasn't going to last forever. The QB needed to air it out and it wasn't getting done. So other teams stacked up. 

 

So I assume he will be the same guy in Cleveland. Adequate but never astonishing or mind blowing. 

 

 

 

 

 

7 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

This is the article that convinced me he was perfect for McB.  24-7-365 and a religious family man. I think he was made for McDermott and I would have expected Cousins to value that.  

 

I guess not.  

I was actually in favor of Cousins back when it was still possible. I remember reading articles about his preparation. I think he is a McDermott guy but maybe the timing was off to make it a reality.

 

Then again I have seen talk of this Allen guy writing a million letters to get into college and think hmmm....

[Tyrod's friend]

1 minute ago, Lfod said:

Even Bortles was ripping off the running yards to put points on the board when my man Tyrod just looked stumped. 

 

 

 

You do remember that Tyrod sustained a leg injury early in that game, right? And he just rubbed some dirt on it, manned up, and played on. But can we be real here for a minute?

Bortles was playing against a damned soft defense - one of the worst defenses in football against the run. TT was up against an incredible unit, with two great shutdown corners covering our bull **** WRs. No, he didn't play well. But these comps to Bortles are ridiculous.

[Lfod]

17 minutes ago, Tyrod's friend said:

You do remember that Tyrod sustained a leg injury early in that game, right? And he just rubbed some dirt on it, manned up, and played on. But can we be real here for a minute?

Bortles was playing against a damned soft defense - one of the worst defenses in football against the run. TT was up against an incredible unit, with two great shutdown corners covering our bull **** WRs. No, he didn't play well. But these comps to Bortles are ridiculous.

Tyrod is the Terminator if you want to talk about his durability. I think the guy would play football if his leg was missing. I don't even think the outcome is all because of Tyrod.

 

I just think the Bills offense was figured out and Tyrod was a piece of it. I'm willing to keep an open mind that it was Rick Dennison and poor WRs. We will see it unfold when it happens. I'm not super confident that AJMcCarron is ideal replacement. Peterman wasn't when he got a shot.

 

I do believe Tyrod is good for Cleveland. I just don't think it will be like franchise QB good. It might even be better then how the Bills look. 

Edited July 10, 2018 by Lfod

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

This is the article that convinced me he was perfect for McB.  24-7-365 and a religious family man. I think he was made for McDermott and I would have expected Cousins to value that.  

 

I guess not.  

Cousins was going for the best situation for him and also the big money. Buffalo would have been willing to offer him the big money but didn't  necessarily present the best situation for him. Cousins joined a team that is already a serious SB contender. And being with a team that offers him the most favorable immediate opportunity for success it also puts him in a good situation when his next contract comes up. 

 

Cousins and his agent devised a strategy to put him on the market. After scanning the market they did their due diligence and made the best decision for him from a football and business standpoint. How can you criticize their judgment which was done within the boundaries of the rules which usually favored the teams over the players? Cousins had a well thought out plan which essentially allowed him to bet on himself. It succeeded and allowed him to hit the jackpot. All done within the rules of the business. 

 

As the Cousins situation played out with Buffalo missing out on his services it worked out just fine for Buffalo. The Bills adjusted by drafting a highly touted prospect who will be dramatically cheaper for a number of years. With the added cap space the organization can use its resources to build a fuller roster. When option A doesn't materialize then you go to option B. You don't commiserate with your plight-----you move on and make the best of your situation. 

Edited July 10, 2018 by JohnC

[MJS]

3 hours ago, Putin said:

Really? 

4 years in Miami 400 receptions and over 4000 yards , ( with bad QB’s ) 

Just imagine how many receptions & receiving yard J L will have in Cleveland playing ( for the first time ) with the best QB he had ever played !!! 

 

Not the best passing QB, but the best overall QB. I'm willing to bet his production goes down.

[Shaw66]

20 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Cousins was going for the best situation for him and also the big money. Buffalo would have been willing to offer him the big money but didn't  necessarily present the best situation for him. Cousins joined a team that is already a serious SB contender. And being with a team that offers him the most favorable immediate opportunity for success it also puts him in a good situation when his next contract comes up. 

 

Cousins and his agent devised a strategy to put him on the market. After scanning the market they did their due diligence and made the best decision for him from a football and business standpoint. How can you criticize their judgment which was done within the boundaries of the rules which usually favored the teams over the players? Cousins had a well thought out plan which essentially allowed him to bet on himself. It succeeded and allowed him to hit the jackpot. All done within the rules of the business. 

 

As the Cousins situation played out with Buffalo missing out on his services it worked out just fine for Buffalo. The Bills adjusted by drafting a highly touted prospect who will be dramatically cheaper for a number of years. With the added cap space the organization can use its resources to build a fuller roster. When option A doesn't materialize then you go to option B. You don't commiserate with your plight-----you move on and make the best of your situation. 

Makes sense to me.  You sound like I'm pining for Cousins. Don't know how you got that impression.

[Royale with Cheese]

9 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Wow, those stats are incomplete, misleading and inconclusive.

 

They're also incorrect; 2015 was 12 games played with Taylor, not 14. And Taylor targeted Sammy 91 times in those 12 games. That's 7.6 targets per game, and you'll notice the 2 games with the lowest targets include the very first game they ever played and a game in which Sammy got injured halfway through the 1st quarter after having already been targeted twice. 

 

And I mentioned the opportunity to develop some trust with an Elite WR.

 

1st 6 games with Taylor in 2015- 5.7 Targets per game

Last 6 games with Taylor in 2015- 9.5 Targets per game 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WatkSa00/gamelog/2015/

 

Considering how little Buffalo threw the ball during Taylor's tenure, nearly 10 targets per game is significant. Julio Jones and AJ Green averaged 10 targets per game once or twice so far in their careers and both of their teams threw more than Buffalo.

 

And if you really want to use Sammy's 2016 targets as part of this argument, you can, but I think most objective observers would have seen that Sammy was a shell of himself until maybe the end of the season. But even looking at the season as Sammy gets healthy, there's a significant difference as Taylor's last game ever throwing to Sammy was in the double digits for targets.

 

I completely understand why we moved on from Taylor and I'm excited to see what Allen can do. But Taylor is, at the moment, set up with weapons that can potentially really elevate his game in Cleveland this year.

 

You got into a little more detail with the numbers but it doesn’t prove the point you were trying to make.

 

The last 6 games of one year doesn’t prove that Taylor will throw to a particular WR even if covered....especially since Clay and Woods were hurt at the end.  Taylor’s known to hold the ball and not take chances.  

[transplantbillsfan]

6 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

You got into a little more detail with the numbers but it doesn’t prove the point you were trying to make.

 

The last 6 games of one year doesn’t prove that Taylor will throw to a particular WR even if covered....especially since Clay and Woods were hurt at the end.  Taylor’s known to hold the ball and not take chances.  

 

Maybe the stats I brought up don't definitively prove that point, but the stats you initially brought up to disprove the point I was making are far from accomplishing that.

[C.Biscuit97]

I can see some pretty bombs to Gordon from Taylor and the Browns will be improved.  But Tyrod just doesn’t have the throwing ability to take advantage of their good group of wrs.  Man, that group is so superior to ours.  

[Royale with Cheese]

8 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Maybe the stats I brought up don't definitively prove that point, but the stats you initially brought up to disprove the point I was making are far from accomplishing that.

 

Okay.