Tyrod Taylor: I still feel that I’d done more than enough to stay

[Shaw66]

13 minutes ago, twoandfourteen said:

 

I didn't say "regularly". I said "be capable of". 

 

Huge difference. 

 

A defensive coordinator has to account for the possibility that Ben Roethlisberger could put up 375/4 (just passing) on him on a Sunday. That would be considered a really good game for Ben, right? 

 

A defensive coordinator accounting for the possibility of a really good game from Taylor only has to worry about the guy throwing for 225/2 and rushing for 40/1. 

 

Now do you see the difference? Or do we have to take a step back and review how 375 is more than 265? 

 

Also, that analogy is awfully specific and personal. Feels like there's some projection going on here. Want to talk about it? 

I was going to respond for you, but figured eventually you would do it yourself.  

 

You're right.  Nobody throws for 375 every week, but a guy who has demonstrated that he CAN do it is as valuable or more valuable than an Adrian Peterson or LaDanian Tomlinson in his prime.  Defenses have to prepare for the big thrower, and that preparation opens things up for the offense. 

[Tenhigh]

On 6/2/2018 at 8:42 AM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Compared to McCarron Taylor is probably objectively correct, and IMO that belief is probably one of the main reasons he was shipped out.  If Taylor were benched for a rookie who then struggled, Taylor might have been outspoken about it and even brought up the race card as he did last fall, which would have been divisive to the team.  I think in the Bills opinion, McCarron is much more likely to be a "good soldier" about any coaching decisions the team makes.

 

Regarding that playoff game, one might wish to consider that Bortles was 34-155 with 75 yd net passing.  "But Bortles sucks too !" you might say, except that he sucked to the tune of hanging up 378 yds on the Steelers and 374 on the Pats in subsequent games.  My point is JUST MAYBE the weather conditions in Jax had something to do with the passing performance on both sides in that game.

What weather conditions?

Sorry, couldn't bear to read thru 12 pages if you already replied.

Edited June 4, 2018 by Tenhigh

[John from Riverside]

3 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I was going to respond for you, but figured eventually you would do it yourself.  

 

You're right.  Nobody throws for 375 every week, but a guy who has demonstrated that he CAN do it is as valuable or more valuable than an Adrian Peterson or LaDanian Tomlinson in his prime.  Defenses have to prepare for the big thrower, and that preparation opens things up for the offense. 

I am really excited to see what Josh Allen can do.

 

Its easy for me to root for Josh......we are both from the same upbringings I enjoyed the video's talking about his family laugh and upbringing.....I was also raised (till a teenager) on a Dairy in Northern California and I know the work ethic it takes for a family that does that......moving irrigation pipe before you get dressed for school is WORK.

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I still say he was not a "sucky" qb......just not what we needed if we wanted to be a real playoff team.

 

Agreed

[Zebrastripes]

9 hours ago, grb said:

 

Your quote : "Two games with under 100 passing yards and 6 more with under 200 really isn't doing enough to stay on a NFL team."

My response : The most important Bill player on offense last year had at least six stinker games, so maybe your logic is faulty.

Your counter-response : "You can't just pick out a handful of games"

 

Hilarious. You can't begin to make this bull**** up........

 

Bottom line is you picked out stats that mean nothing for shadys overall season.  The stats I picked fall in line with tyrods overall season.  Shady was top 5 for starting running backs where as tyrod was bottom 5 for starting qbs.   The stats I picked for tyrod obviously are more of a norm for his career where as the stats you picked are an outlier for shadys career.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

5 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

11 hours ago, 3rdand12 said:

Btw Last year was painful to watch. The Offense and Tyrod, Tolbert and Mills.

 

I thought last year was AMAZING to watch with all the wins and PLAYOFFS!!

 

Hopefully this year is at least as good.

Seeing the starter put up 4 pieces of  ? in 5 games and getting benched for a guy not ready for prime time was amazing to you?

 

Getting out QB’d Blake freaking Bortles was amazing to you?

 

well. I guess if one were to look at it differently it was amazing how’s poorly he did.   Amazingly poor.  

 

 

 

The only stat that counts is

Wins and Losses

and most importantly Playoff Wins! 

 

[3rdand12]

46 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...still think TT's inherent weakness was ability to process entire field in 5 seconds of less nor did I see the passing game ever becoming a viable threat, particularly downfield.....at the same time Dennison was woefully inconsistent....one week he'd craft a game plan that took advantage of TT's mobility (probably a factor as to why he remains in the NFL mix today) and we'd get the "W"......the following week his "crafted plan" made you think TT was in a wheelchair....this clown was as frustrating as Hackett and even Fairchild....

We all saw that Tyrod held the ball. For what reason? not apparent to me most times.
Maybe he was not breast fed at birth ?

[benderbender]

42 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

He simply wasnt a franchise QB....he could not put the team on his shoulders....and he didnt improve even though he was given years to do it.

 

I still say he was not a "sucky" qb......just not what we needed if we wanted to be a real playoff team.

Couldn’t agree more. I felt the same about Fitzpatrick but for some reason, the board’s love for Fitz at the time (and probably still is) felt infinitely greater than for Tyrod. 

[Shaw66]

6 minutes ago, benderbender said:

Couldn’t agree more. I felt the same about Fitzpatrick but for some reason, the board’s love for Fitz at the time (and probably still is) felt infinitely greater than for Tyrod. 

That's interesting.  I have the same feelings about both.   They are good guys, they work had at what they do, they are as good as half the starters in the league, and, for different reasons, they aren't good enough.  

 

Put Fitz's head on Taylor's body, and you probably have a a guy who plays like Drew Brees.  

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

41 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

We all saw that Tyrod held the ball. For what reason? not apparent to me most times.
Maybe he was not breast fed at birth ?

 

...wish I was NOW...........

[Stank_Nasty]

1 hour ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Seeing the starter put up 4 pieces of  ? in 5 games and getting benched for a guy not ready for prime time was amazing to you?

 

Getting out QB’d Blake freaking Bortles was amazing to you?

 

well. I guess if one were to look at it differently it was amazing how’s poorly he did.   Amazingly poor.  

 

 

 

The only stat that counts is

Wins and Losses

and most importantly Playoff Wins! 

 

So this was your takeaway from a playoff season..... explains a lot actually. 

 

I thoroughly enjoyed the season as a whole. Even being in Jacksonville for the loss. It was a close playoff football game. Great time. 

 

Its also funny that after that pathetic lecture on what sucked about the season you reference all that matters is winning and losing as an argument against a qb that won more than he lost last year. You are consistently all over the place, man. It’s impressive, really. 

Edited June 4, 2018 by Stank_Nasty

[YoloinOhio]

Bad organizations latch themselves to a playoff berth and say “that’s good enough, we made it” (Cough - mike brown - cough) and cling to the hope of 9-7 again and again with no real success in sight because of the limitations of the QB. Thank god our owners aren’t only concerned about ticket sales (mike brown, again) and our GM and coach are smart and self-aware enough to know the team isn’t getting past the WC round (if lucky to make that) with Tyrod. I’ll never understand the fans who feel average is all they deserve. 

Edited June 4, 2018 by YoloinOhio

[Stank_Nasty]

4 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Bad organizations latch themselves to a playoff berth and say “that’s good enough, we made it” (Cough - mike brown - cough) and cling to the hope of 9-7 again and again with no real success in sight because of the limitations of the QB. Thank god our owners aren’t only concerned about ticket sales (mike brown, again) and our GM and coach are smart and self-aware enough to know the team isn’t getting past the WC round (if lucky to make that) with Tyrod. I’ll never understand the fans who feel average is all they deserve. 

You can want more and still debate that Tyrod wasn’t an awful qb. 

 

Is snyone even arguinh we should have just settled on Taylor at this point? 

Edited June 4, 2018 by Stank_Nasty

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

8 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

So this was your takeaway from a playoff season..... explains a lot actually. 

 

I thoroughly enjoyed the season as a whole. Even being in Jacksonville for the loss. It was a close playoff football game. Great time. 

 

Its also funny that after that pathetic lecture on what sucked about the season you reference all that matters is winning and losing as an argument against a qb that won more than he lost last year. You are consistently all over the place, man. It’s impressive, really. 

Yes that is my takeaway from a playoff season. 

 

Terrible Tyrod Taylor did the Bills more harm than good.  

 

Credit Shady, the defense and Housemoney.  

[xxxxxxxx]

1 hour ago, twoandfourteen said:

 

I didn't say "regularly". I said "be capable of". 

 

Huge difference. 

 

A defensive coordinator has to account for the possibility that Ben Roethlisberger could put up 375/4 (just passing) on him on a Sunday. That would be considered a really good game for Ben, right? 

 

A defensive coordinator accounting for the possibility of a really good game from Taylor only has to worry about the guy throwing for 225/2 and rushing for 40/1. 

 

Now do you see the difference? Or do we have to take a step back and review how 375 is more than 265? 

 

Also, that analogy is awfully specific and personal. Feels like there's some projection going on here. Want to talk about it? 

Your tone is condescending, and your standards are unrealistic and silly. And when you have unrealistic and silly expectations you are destined to be dissapointed. How many 375 yard 4 touchdown Quarterback performances occur, on average, each year? Not enough to set that possibility as a realistic benchmark for who you think the Bills QB should be. 

[YoloinOhio]

2 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

You can want more and still debate that Tyrod wasn’t an awful qb. 

 

Is snyone even arguinh we should have just settled on Taylor at this point? 

Yes. I definitely would not have settled. 

[BringBackOrton]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

Im sure it is...they throw it in there with you know actually WINNING.

 

There are also lots of passing yards thrown by QBs.....in losses.

 

My point here is there are other things that are real things you can bash Tyrod over and be legit.....but passing yards on a team that runs the ball a ton?  

 

 

He simply wasnt a franchise QB....he could not put the team on his shoulders....and he didnt improve even though he was given years to do it.

 

I still say he was not a "sucky" qb......just not what we needed if we wanted to be a real playoff team.

So then he's trash.  If he isn't good enough to do anything more than sneak in, he's no better than any other backup.

[Stank_Nasty]

3 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Yes that is my takeaway from a playoff season. 

 

Terrible Tyrod Taylor did the Bills more harm than good.  

 

Credit Shady, the defense and Housemoney.  

That’s really really sad to me. Very fun season. 

[YoloinOhio]

Just now, Stank_Nasty said:

That’s really really sad to me. Very fun season. 

It was a fun but weird season, to me. Everyone seemed to laugh at the Bills chances even when they made it. And that was because of the QB. I don’t live amongst Bills fans. That was just what I experienced.

[BringBackOrton]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

It was a fun but weird season, to me. Everyone seemed to laugh at the Bills chances even when they made it. And that was because of the QB. I don’t live amongst Bills fans. That was just what I experienced.

It was an ugly season for the most part. I can handle ugly and winning, but ugly and 8-8 or ugly 6-10 hurts.

[reddogblitz]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

just not what we needed if we wanted to be a real playoff team. 

 

What team was that I saw in the playoffs on January 7th?  Looked like the Bills to me. Only real playoff teams played that weekend.

 

NFL sanctioned real playoff teams that is.  Perhaps they just aren't John from Riverside playoff worthy?  fwiw

Edited June 4, 2018 by reddogblitz

[YoloinOhio]

33 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

What team was that I saw in the playoffs on January 7th?  Looked like the Bills to me. Only real playoff teams played that weekend.

 

NFL sanctioned real playoff teams that is.  Perhaps they just aren't John from Riverside playoff worthy?  fwiw

They were worthy to participate in the playoffs. I agree. I don’t subscribe to the “lucky” to be there or “backing in.” They were not worthy of contending for the SB, however, which is what any team in the playoffs should be there for. A participation trophy is not what this organization’s goal is. Thank god. 

 

The Bills held the Jags to 10 points. They lost. It was embarrassing imo. No way they could continue with that QB.

Edited June 5, 2018 by YoloinOhio

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, BringBackOrton said:

So then he's trash.  If he isn't good enough to do anything more than sneak in, he's no better than any other backup.

 

If you really want to try to construct an argument that Taylor isn't better than Brett Hundley, Bryce Petty, Blaine Gabbert, Brian Hoyer, Landry Jones, etc I don't know what to say - "Good Luck with That" I guess.

 

This whole "Championship Caliber or Trash" false dichotomy has gotten a bit off the rails IMO.

[Manther]

On 6/2/2018 at 8:38 AM, cd1 said:

 

Seriously?  It makes me shudder to think of a professional athlete thinking that mediocre is "enough".

 

Thanks Tyrod, but no thanks. 

Agreed

[The Red King]

Not everyone is polorized.  I'm quite the opposite.  TT was the ultimate baseline.  He never took a risk.  Ever.  Not taking risks kept him from losing game through mistakes, but kept him from winning games with big plays.  He was able to do enough to get us to the playoffs, and not enough to win a playoff game where the opposing team scored just 10 points.  TT elevates bad teams and drags good teams down.  Last season the Bills finally outgrew him.  However, the 1-31 Browns are the perfect team for him.  He can elevate them to mediocrity, and by the time the Browns outgrow him, their rookie should be ready to go.

 

That lack of risk-taking did catch up to him, though.  When time is almost expired and you need a comeback, a winning drive, well...you have to bite the bullet and take chances.  TT couldn't, or wouldn't, and that's why his 4th quarter comeback numbers are so terrible.

[reddogblitz]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

It was embarrassing imo. No way they could continue with that QB.

 

No, the 17 years before that were embarrassing.

 

I was embarassed for the 20 teams that didn't make it.

 

Most SB winners don't go from no playoffs for years and years and years to Champs in one year.  Last year was a great step ahead. Winning breeds winning.  

 

I can't say for sire, but I suspect that if Scott had made that pick you'd be on here complaining we didn't win by enough.

 

I will always consider a playoff season to be a successful season, but that's just.me. 

 

Edited June 5, 2018 by reddogblitz

[BringBackOrton]

32 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

If you really want to try to construct an argument that Taylor isn't better than Brett Hundley, Bryce Petty, Blaine Gabbert, Brian Hoyer, Landry Jones, etc I don't know what to say - "Good Luck with That" I guess.

 

This whole "Championship Caliber or Trash" false dichotomy has gotten a bit off the rails IMO.

The best of the trash.  

 

It's not championship caliber or trash.  But there is a clear line between good enough and not good enough, and once you're below that line, I don't care if you're the king of the trash.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

The best of the trash.  

 

It's not championship caliber or trash.  But there is a clear line between good enough and not good enough, and once you're below that line, I don't care if you're the king of the trash.

 

(Hapless opens a brewski and sits back)  Clear line.  Do tell.  Who is above it, and who is below?

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

(Hapless opens a brewski and sits back)  Clear line.  Do tell.  Who is above it, and who is below?

Active QB's?

[reddogblitz]

4 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

it's not championship caliber or trash.  But there is a clear line between good enough and not good enough, and once you're below that line, I don't care if you're the king of the trash.

 

And where exactly is this "clear line" of which you speak?

[twoandfourteen]

12 hours ago, Stank_Nasty said:

Also notice he claims Taylor is only throwing for 200 yds on a very good day for him when the guy averaged 200 pass yds a game over his 3 seasons here. 

 

Dont bother with that clown dude. He’s warped. I’m totally cool with Taylor being gone but some of these dudes takes are just really really REALLY stupid. 

 

I know, right? I mean, only just over half of Tyrod's 44 games were under 200 yards passing. (Of course, there were more than a few of those 200+ games where he was at 150 or so late in the 4th Q and padded the ol' yardage stats in garbage time, but we don't need to dig that deep.)

 

Passing Yards

43 games under 300 - 97.7%

38 games under 280 - 86.3%

30 games under 230 - 68.1%

23 games under 200 - 52.2%

16 games under 180 - 36.3%

7 games under 130 - 15.9%

 

Passing TDs

Games with 3 passing TDs: 6 - 13.6%

Games with 2 passing TDs: 7 - 15.9%

Games with 1 passing TD: 19 - 43.1%

Games with 0 passing TD: 12 - 27.2%

 

31 games with 1 or 0 passing TDs - 70.4%

38 games with 2 or fewer passing TDs - 86.3%

 

13 games with 2 or more passing TDs - 29.5%

 

Such a stupid and delusional post, I know -- what with using actual facts and numbers to illustrate reality. How dare I? 

[Stank_Nasty]

8 minutes ago, twoandfourteen said:

 

I know, right? I mean, only just over half of Tyrod's 44 games were under 200 yards passing. (Of course, there were more than a few of those 200+ games where he was at 150 or so late in the 4th Q and padded the ol' yardage stats in garbage time, but we don't need to dig that deep.)

 

Passing Yards

43 games under 300 - 97.7%

38 games under 280 - 86.3%

30 games under 230 - 68.1%

23 games under 200 - 52.2%

16 games under 180 - 36.3%

7 games under 130 - 15.9%

 

Passing TDs

Games with 3 passing TDs: 6 - 13.6%

Games with 2 passing TDs: 7 - 15.9%

Games with 1 passing TD: 19 - 43.1%

Games with 0 passing TD: 12 - 27.2%

 

31 games with 1 or 0 passing TDs - 70.4%

38 games with 2 or fewer passing TDs - 86.3%

 

13 games with 2 or more passing TDs - 29.5%

 

Such a stupid and delusional post, I know -- what with using actual facts and numbers to illustrate reality. How dare I? 

There was really no need for all this. You said 200 yds was a “very good” day for him while trying to reinforce a point. That was false. 200 yds a game was his average in Buffalo. I’m not happy with that. I’m totally fine with moving on from Tyrod. That doesn’t change what you said from being wrong... and sorta stupid. Sorry.  Good talk, bruh. 

Edited June 5, 2018 by Stank_Nasty

[xxxxxxxx]

28 minutes ago, twoandfourteen said:

 

I know, right? I mean, only just over half of Tyrod's 44 games were under 200 yards passing. (Of course, there were more than a few of those 200+ games where he was at 150 or so late in the 4th Q and padded the ol' yardage stats in garbage time, but we don't need to dig that deep.)

 

Passing Yards

43 games under 300 - 97.7%

38 games under 280 - 86.3%

30 games under 230 - 68.1%

23 games under 200 - 52.2%

16 games under 180 - 36.3%

7 games under 130 - 15.9%

 

Passing TDs

Games with 3 passing TDs: 6 - 13.6%

Games with 2 passing TDs: 7 - 15.9%

Games with 1 passing TD: 19 - 43.1%

Games with 0 passing TD: 12 - 27.2%

 

31 games with 1 or 0 passing TDs - 70.4%

38 games with 2 or fewer passing TDs - 86.3%

 

13 games with 2 or more passing TDs - 29.5%

 

Such a stupid and delusional post, I know -- what with using actual facts and numbers to illustrate reality. How dare I? 

The sample size is far too small for any factual claim to be made, counter to what you hyprocritically and arrogantly claim to be reality. The problem is that your supposed standard for quality QB play was inflated from the get go. So all your really doing is dressing up an opinion with some numbers that you decided were important.

Edited June 5, 2018 by MURPHD6

[reddogblitz]

Droughts broken = 1

 

100%

[twoandfourteen]

2 hours ago, MURPHD6 said:

Your tone is condescending, and your standards are unrealistic and silly. And when you have unrealistic and silly expectations you are destined to be dissapointed. How many 375 yard 4 touchdown Quarterback performances occur, on average, each year? Not enough to set that possibility as a realistic benchmark for who you think the Bills QB should be. 

 

Interesting question. Let's take a look! 

 

2015-2017 QBs with 375yds or more & 4 or more TDs:

http://pfref.com/tiny/h5Wgl

 

2015-2017 QBs with 375yds or more

http://pfref.com/tiny/6H47Y

 

2015-2017 QBs with 4 or more TDs: 

http://pfref.com/tiny/T4Rwe

 

Spoiler Alert: Tyrod Taylor does not appear on any of those lists. Matt Moore, Trevor Siemian, and Brian Hoyer do. 

 

Anyway, I wasn't talking about a fan's "expectations". I was talking about a DC preparing a gameplan -- you know, trying to account for things that might happen. 

 

Ben Roethlisberger might throw for 375/4 because he's proven himself to be capable of doing it, so the DC has to account for it. It is a reasonable concern. 

 

Tyrod Taylor won't throw for 375/4 because he's shown to be totally incapable of doing it, so the DC doesn't have to waste the time worrying about it. There is no concern about Tyrod's passing attack. 

 

Tyrod's ceiling is probably 285-290 passing yards in a single game at his very best. 

 

A good QB is probably around 400 at his very best:

http://pfref.com/tiny/67Ef5

 

 

7 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

There was really no need for all this. You said 200 yds was a “very good” day for him. That was false. It was his average. I’m totally fine with moving on from Tyrod. That doesn’t change what you said from being wrong. Sorry.  Good talk, bruh. 

 

Well, you win this one. I should have said a "good" day for him would be 200 yds passing. 

 

A "very good" day for him would have been 230 yds passing. 

 

Thank you for the correction. I tip my hat to you, good sir. 

 

[twoandfourteen]

9 minutes ago, MURPHD6 said:

The sample size is far too small for any factual claim to be made, counter to what you hyprocritically and arrogantly claim to be reality. The problem is that your supposed standard for quality QB play was inflated from the get go. So all your really doing is dressing up an opinion with some numbers that you decided were important, without any backing from others.

 

Honest question here -- are you saying that 44 games (the entirety of Tyrod's career as the Bills' QB) is too small of a sample size? 

 

I was talking ceilings and very good performances, not minimum standards. 

 

If you want my opinion on what a reasonable expectation is for a quality day from a decent QB, it would be 250/2. Think "Andy Dalton in his prime". 

[xxxxxxxx]

Im just going to point out that your search showed 13 games where a qb reached the statistical ceiling that you cited as desiring in a "good" Bills starter (375 yards and 4TDs) over the span of 3 years. So, out of the 768 games played in total over that time span, a starting qb met your standard 0.0196 per cent of the time. So yeah, I think your standard for a franchise QB is too high. If we were talking Hall of Fame QBs, I'd be more likely to agree with you, but we are not, we are just describing someone who deserves to keep a starting job, not someone who deserves to be enshrined in Canton.

Edited June 5, 2018 by MURPHD6

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, The Red King said:

Not everyone is polorized.  I'm quite the opposite.  TT was the ultimate baseline.  He never took a risk.  Ever.  Not taking risks kept him from losing game through mistakes, but kept him from winning games with big plays.  He was able to do enough to get us to the playoffs, and not enough to win a playoff game where the opposing team scored just 10 points.  TT elevates bad teams and drags good teams down.  Last season the Bills finally outgrew him.  However, the 1-31 Browns are the perfect team for him.  He can elevate them to mediocrity, and by the time the Browns outgrow him, their rookie should be ready to go.

 

That lack of risk-taking did catch up to him, though.  When time is almost expired and you need a comeback, a winning drive, well...you have to bite the bullet and take chances.  TT couldn't, or wouldn't, and that's why his 4th quarter comeback numbers are so terrible.

I've been saying this for years. You have to learn to take risks.  If you don't you probably won't deliver when the time comes. 

 

You're right about Taylor. He didn't seem to learn. One symptom of that was his unwillingness to throw before his receiver came open.  

 

Maybe he will learn, but I don't think it's his nature. 

[xxxxxxxx]

14 minutes ago, twoandfourteen said:

 

Honest question here -- are you saying that 44 games (the entirety of Tyrod's career as the Bills' QB) is too small of a sample size? 

 

I was talking ceilings and very good performances, not minimum standards. 

 

If you want my opinion on what a reasonable expectation is for a quality day from a decent QB, it would be 250/2. Think "Andy Dalton in his prime". 

If you want a reasonable expectation for quality of qb play you have to compare his performances to every qb who played. You cant just isolate 44 TT games and form an opinion based on QBs you think are better. You have to consider the entire sample of NFL QB play over the same period to have any boderline reliable idea of what is above or below average. Otherwise you are  just cherry picking numbers to assert your opinions.

Edited June 5, 2018 by MURPHD6

[Lfod]

Tyrod choked in the Playoffs. Change my mind.