xxxxxxxx Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: You can be both in the camp that wanted to move on from Tyrod and that camp that does not think AJ McCarron will be an upgrade. Some people were ABTs - anyone but Tyrod - I wasn't. I just thought sticking with Tyrod was tying yourself to a road to average. I expect McCarron to be about the same as Tyrod as a passer - safe, conservative, sporadic moving the offense but a competitor and a game manager - and less than Tyrod as a runner (though he isn't totally immobile). The point to moving on from Tyrod was never about whether you could get similar play for a year or two from an AJ McCarron or a Case Keenum (as I advocated a year ago) it was about getting away from the baggage of having your former established starter sitting ahead of the guy who you really hope is the future - which we now know is Josh Allen. Agreed. And I have no problem with moving on from Taylor. But I do have a problem with the brutes who still want to complain about a guy who we got for basically nothing, who played better than most people anticipated, and who contributed to the end of the teams playoff drought. Thinking that a QB from Alabama will be an immediate upgrade is more than silly. Edited June 4, 2018 by MURPHD6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grb Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 On 6/3/2018 at 8:57 AM, Zebrastripes said: I actually looked these up myself. The biggest problem with these numbers and comparing them directly with the Bills years is the fact that woods and Watkins were the 3rd and 4th leading receiver on the Rams. When they were on the Bills they were the first and second. So now we've gone from : Your Old "Point" : Watkins and Woods had much better production with the Rams Your New "Point" : Watkins and Woods didn't have better production, but the Rams passed more so .... so .... I'm not sure what what my point is ..... This was what you originally said : " Tyrod had both Woods and Watkins on his team just like Goff did and look at the difference in production from them two." You actually looked up the numbers because you actually believed what you'd been told - what you said above. It's not my fault the stories passed around were wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: You can be both in the camp that wanted to move on from Tyrod and that camp that does not think AJ McCarron will be an upgrade. Some people were ABTs - anyone but Tyrod - I wasn't. I just thought sticking with Tyrod was tying yourself to a road to average. I expect McCarron to be about the same as Tyrod as a passer - safe, conservative, sporadic moving the offense but a competitor and a game manager - and less than Tyrod as a runner (though he isn't totally immobile). The point to moving on from Tyrod was never about whether you could get similar play for a year or two from an AJ McCarron or a Case Keenum (as I advocated a year ago) it was about getting away from the baggage of having your former established starter sitting ahead of the guy who you really hope is the future - which we now know is Josh Allen. This is exactly where I am and exactly what I've been trying to say, but you said it better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 15 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: You can be both in the camp that wanted to move on from Tyrod and that camp that does not think AJ McCarron will be an upgrade. Some people were ABTs - anyone but Tyrod - I wasn't. I just thought sticking with Tyrod was tying yourself to a road to average. I expect McCarron to be about the same as Tyrod as a passer - safe, conservative, sporadic moving the offense but a competitor and a game manager - and less than Tyrod as a runner (though he isn't totally immobile). The point to moving on from Tyrod was never about whether you could get similar play for a year or two from an AJ McCarron or a Case Keenum (as I advocated a year ago) it was about getting away from the baggage of having your former established starter sitting ahead of the guy who you really hope is the future - which we now know is Josh Allen. I was, for the most part, an ABTer - but not completely. I wanted him to be gone because, at his best, he simply wasn't very good - especially when the Bills needed points. But I didn't want to replace him with a retread. I wanted him to be replaced by a question mark - whether it was going all-in on a draftee, or whether it was bringing someone like McCarron in - whom I still consider a question mark. Tyrod's departure, the acquisition of McCarron and the drafting of Allen were exactly what I was looking for. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stank_Nasty Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 (edited) 47 minutes ago, MURPHD6 said: Your idea of 'a real QB' needing to throw for 375 and 4tds regularly is entitled, unrealistic and silly. Its akin to being the creepy dude who only hits on girls that he thinks are 10's, and that dude never gets laid. Also notice he claims Taylor is only throwing for 200 yds on a very good day for him when the guy averaged 200 pass yds a game over his 3 seasons here. Dont bother with that clown dude. He’s warped. I’m totally cool with Taylor being gone but some of these dudes takes are just really really REALLY stupid. Edited June 4, 2018 by Stank_Nasty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 Tyrod regressed because we took away his Greggggg Roman O, which made colin Kap look like an all star. It was a pretty interesting system, with insane formations and a run game that kept the entire front 7 of the D guessing and resulted in huge run plays and provided some deep passing chances. it also lead to penalties, no rhythm, and plays took SOOOOO LONGGG to get in. 8 million formations and 35 substitutions per drive. the RB coach now in SD ran it better than roman did, but it was his creation. anyhow, tyrod has huge limitations as a passer, and even tho some fans give him excuses comparing him to brees or whever from 15 years ago, passing production is up all around and tyrod just couldn't deliver because he struggles to read a d and make an accurate throw. he was IMO maybe the best QB ever at not turning it over tho, and ran well. I look at tyrod as a perfect guy to add onto a team with a sick D, solid run game, and no passing O, because he make some plays out of thin air, but he can't work within the offensive system and implement a dynamic passing attack. I think houston 2 years ago when they had osweiler and savage at qb would have a shot at the chip with him, or some of the pre flacco baltimore teams, or even the jets in ryan's first days there. he's just too limited and we have seen what he can do, and more importantly what he cannot do. He was also an awesome pro, great to his teammates, solid attitude, and a quiet type of leader. IMO he is the ideal back up QB for most any team because he can leg it out and will not make the bad turnover, but he simply cannot be relied upon to score, or even avoid killer 3 and outs in his own end. we are going a totally different direction with the team now, with tyrod we more or less needed the opponents to incorrectly defend against us or make a big mistake so we could get a few big plays and we had trouble sustaining drives due to the lack of efficiency in passing. now that we are going all out stud talent at QB (and adding pieces like that on D) we are trying to have a team that can score against any D from any spot on the field (with a higher risk of turnovers). basically the opposite of the gregg roman tyrod bills, which was money in the redzone, but stalled out so often in key situations you wanted to pull your hair out. i give tyrod a partial pass for last season, because the talent level on O fell off and the OC was junk and get his walking papers over it, but tyrod's flaws were just emphasized, and we saw the entire O just vanish for long stretches, including a frankly embarrassing string of games mid season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy KGB Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 23 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said: Also notice he claims Taylor is only throwing for 200 yds on a very good day for him when the guy averaged 200 pass yds a game over his 3 seasons here. Did he though ? I came up with 158 ypg off a quick google search. Was my math off ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stank_Nasty Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Teddy KGB said: Did he though ? I came up with 158 ypg off a quick google search. Was my math off ? 156 for his career due to spotty appearances in Baltimore. 201 per game in 3 years in buffalo...… which obviously nobody was happy with but lets not pretend 200 yds was a very good day for taylor just to try and prove a point. it was a dumb statement on his part. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/T/TaylTy00.htm Edited June 4, 2018 by Stank_Nasty 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 9 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said: Did he though ? I came up with 158 ypg off a quick google search. Was my math off ? No, but it was dumb. It included all games he played in, which for his years in Baltimore were largely end-of-game kneeldowns. You do you, but most folks don't think that's a reasonable metric for QB quality. The correct figure for games he started in B'lo is 201.3 ypg 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, 3rdand12 said: Btw Last year was painful to watch. The Offense and Tyrod, Tolbert and Mills. I thought last year was AMAZING to watch with all the wins and PLAYOFFS!! Hopefully this year is at least as good. Edited June 4, 2018 by reddogblitz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stank_Nasty Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, reddogblitz said: I thought last year was AMAZING to watch with all the wins and PLAYOFFS!! Hopefully this year is at least as good. right on man. thoroughly enjoyed the roller coaster ride last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy KGB Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: The correct figure for games he started in B'lo is 201.3 ypg 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan60 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 On 6/2/2018 at 11:05 AM, C.Biscuit97 said: I mean Allen is bigger and has a stronger arm than Tyrod. So was Jamarcus Russell. Tyrod was actually a pretty good deep passer, probably the best thing he did throwing. Again, I was ready for a change at qb. But I wanna honk they picked the wrong guy. I pray they prove me wrong. By the time the Bills were on the clock it was down to Rosen and Allen. Too bad we'll never get the real reasons for who they went with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peevo Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 4 hours ago, colin said: Tyrod regressed because we took away his Greggggg Roman O, which made colin Kap look like an all star. It was a pretty interesting system, with insane formations and a run game that kept the entire front 7 of the D guessing and resulted in huge run plays and provided some deep passing chances. it also lead to penalties, no rhythm, and plays took SOOOOO LONGGG to get in. 8 million formations and 35 substitutions per drive. the RB coach now in SD ran it better than roman did, but it was his creation. anyhow, tyrod has huge limitations as a passer, and even tho some fans give him excuses comparing him to brees or whever from 15 years ago, passing production is up all around and tyrod just couldn't deliver because he struggles to read a d and make an accurate throw. he was IMO maybe the best QB ever at not turning it over tho, and ran well. I look at tyrod as a perfect guy to add onto a team with a sick D, solid run game, and no passing O, because he make some plays out of thin air, but he can't work within the offensive system and implement a dynamic passing attack. I think houston 2 years ago when they had osweiler and savage at qb would have a shot at the chip with him, or some of the pre flacco baltimore teams, or even the jets in ryan's first days there. he's just too limited and we have seen what he can do, and more importantly what he cannot do. He was also an awesome pro, great to his teammates, solid attitude, and a quiet type of leader. IMO he is the ideal back up QB for most any team because he can leg it out and will not make the bad turnover, but he simply cannot be relied upon to score, or even avoid killer 3 and outs in his own end. we are going a totally different direction with the team now, with tyrod we more or less needed the opponents to incorrectly defend against us or make a big mistake so we could get a few big plays and we had trouble sustaining drives due to the lack of efficiency in passing. now that we are going all out stud talent at QB (and adding pieces like that on D) we are trying to have a team that can score against any D from any spot on the field (with a higher risk of turnovers). basically the opposite of the gregg roman tyrod bills, which was money in the redzone, but stalled out so often in key situations you wanted to pull your hair out. i give tyrod a partial pass for last season, because the talent level on O fell off and the OC was junk and get his walking papers over it, but tyrod's flaws were just emphasized, and we saw the entire O just vanish for long stretches, including a frankly embarrassing string of games mid season. What really frustrated me about the Bills offense, for the better part of the drought, but especially under Taylor was a lack of command and control. If Bills fans were honest with themselves (a rarity), did you ever feel confident down 4 points with the ball under 2 minutes the Bills would go ahead? I recall the '16 Miami game clearly, as the only situation where this was the case, and the Bills still failed to score in OT with 2 possessions to win! He has maybe 2 impressive performances in 3 years starting, both losses. @ Sea, vs Miami in 16. We're all so warped from years of tragic, heartbreaking defeats we all lose sight in the fact Taylor had plenty of opportunities to be the hero and failed almost always. Here's to improving on the 31st passing offense, 181 yards/game. Laughable in NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 4 hours ago, GunnerBill said: You can be both in the camp that wanted to move on from Tyrod and that camp that does not think AJ McCarron will be an upgrade. Some people were ABTs - anyone but Tyrod - I wasn't. I just thought sticking with Tyrod was tying yourself to a road to average. I expect McCarron to be about the same as Tyrod as a passer - safe, conservative, sporadic moving the offense but a competitor and a game manager - and less than Tyrod as a runner (though he isn't totally immobile). The point to moving on from Tyrod was never about whether you could get similar play for a year or two from an AJ McCarron or a Case Keenum (as I advocated a year ago) it was about getting away from the baggage of having your former established starter sitting ahead of the guy who you really hope is the future - which we now know is Josh Allen. ABT came from the fear that McD would roll with him again rather than taking a shot. At least for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 4 hours ago, Teddy KGB said: Did he though ? I came up with 158 ypg off a quick google search. Was my math off ? Your math is on Ryan Your common sense is off (but this is not a new development) Anyone that gauges productivity off passing yards is already lost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stank_Nasty Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 10 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: Your math is on Ryan Your common sense is off (but this is not a new development) Anyone that gauges productivity off passing yards is already lost well its not really though. not as a bill anyways. that's 201 a game.... which leads me back to my original point of twoandfourteen looking like a tool for stating that a very good day for taylor was 200 yds passing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 1 minute ago, Stank_Nasty said: well its not really though. not as a bill anyways. that's 201 a game.... which leads me back to my original point of twoandfourteen looking like a tool for stating that a very good day for taylor was 200 yds passing. I just think the whole passing yards complaint that so many of the punch bowl pisser's hang onto is ridiculous If you wanna complain about the amount of TD throws he makes.....its a legit arguement (he makes up for it in running touchdowns but that is a different arguement) If you wanna complain that he struggles when he cant escape the pocket there is evidence to support that If you wanna complain that he cant seem to come up big in moments where a franchise QB is needed.....this is a real argument And that is why we have moved on from him....but can we please stop with the passing yards arguement 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socal-805 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 On 6/2/2018 at 5:35 AM, Teddy KGB said: Delusional Benched for poor play leaving us with Peterman 130 yard easily winnable playoff game 17 for 37 45 % completion also.... and 1 INT. Yikes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Teddy KGB said: Always interesting to see how folks respond to having misinformation they post corrected. You're welcome! 35 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: ABT came from the fear that McD would roll with him again rather than taking a shot. At least for me. So you are happy (I am happy too - and in accord with Gunner's take on why the Bills had to move on) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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