Socal-805 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 6 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: I just think the whole passing yards complaint that so many of the punch bowl pisser's hang onto is ridiculous If you wanna complain about the amount of TD throws he makes.....its a legit arguement (he makes up for it in running touchdowns but that is a different arguement) If you wanna complain that he struggles when he cant escape the pocket there is evidence to support that If you wanna complain that he cant seem to come up big in moments where a franchise QB is needed.....this is a real argument And that is why we have moved on from him....but can we please stop with the passing yards arguement He just sucks.... And his yards / game passing is horrible.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 Just now, Socal-805 said: He just sucks.... And his yards / game passing is horrible.. Tyrod Taylor does not "suck" There is a difference between not being a "franchise qb" and "sucking" But to the punch bowl pissers there is no in between. This team had a top 10 ranked offense in one of the year's he was the QB. He has a ceiling which is why the bills have moved on but he does not "suck" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 4 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: Tyrod Taylor does not "suck" There is a difference between not being a "franchise qb" and "sucking" But to the punch bowl pissers there is no in between. This team had a top 10 ranked offense in one of the year's he was the QB. He has a ceiling which is why the bills have moved on but he does not "suck" Oh my god. If Josh Allen throws for 2700 yards and 14 TD's in 3 years, no one is going to call him good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: Oh my god. If Josh Allen throws for 2700 yards and 14 TD's in 3 years, no one is going to call him good. Try reading all the posts sir.....The difference is your not going to see Josh Allen RUNNING for all those touchdowns he does to go with his passing touchdowns. Edited June 4, 2018 by John from Riverside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 Just now, John from Riverside said: Try reading all the posts sir.....The difference is your not going to see Josh Allen RUNNING for all those touchdowns he does to go with his passing touchdowns. All those? You mean 4? So if Josh Allen has 3100 yards and 18 TD's three years from now he'll be good? No. 18 total TD's was 26th!!!!!! in the league last year. Todd Gurley had more TD's than Tyrod last year. That's SUCKING. 18 total TD's was 28th in the league in 2016. 18 total TD's was 25th in 2015. 18 total TD's was 25th in 2014. 18 total TD's was 22nd in 2013. 18 total TD's was 26th in 2012. 18 total TD's was 21st in 2011. 18 total TD's was 22nd in 2010. 18 total TD's was 21st in 2009. Is being in the bottom third of total TD's bad? Is being regularly beaten by skill position players in TD production bad? Is having single WR's on good teams with good QB's beat your ENTIRE QB's production bad? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like A Mofo Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 So mixed on Tyrod. Yes, limitations in the passing game, but his lack of turnovers helped make up for 'some' of that. The biggest issue with Tyrod IMO was in a close game, down 7 or less, with the ball late, and the Bills needed to go 60-90 yards for a score, Tyrod was really exposed. That limited the Bills to 8-8, 9-7 status IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 1 minute ago, BringBackOrton said: All those? You mean 4? So if Josh Allen has 3100 yards and 18 TD's three years from now he'll be good? No. 18 total TD's was 26th!!!!!! in the league last year. Todd Gurley had more TD's than Tyrod last year. That's SUCKING. 18 total TD's was 28th in the league in 2016. 18 total TD's was 25th in 2015. 18 total TD's was 25th in 2014. 18 total TD's was 22nd in 2013. 18 total TD's was 26th in 2012. 18 total TD's was 21st in 2011. 18 total TD's was 22nd in 2010. 18 total TD's was 21st in 2009. Is being in the bottom third of total TD's bad? Is being regularly beaten by skill position players in TD production bad? Is having single WR's on good teams with good QB's beat your ENTIRE QB's production bad? I know that this is getting lost here in this arguement but I actually agree with you that it is not good enough and said so earlier in the thread. My complaint is passing yards is not a good stat to determine a good qb.......passing touchdowns however is. But TT was never your prototype QB....he was never that. The bills moved on from him in search of what that was and I cant fault them for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: I know that this is getting lost here in this arguement but I actually agree with you that it is not good enough and said so earlier in the thread. My complaint is passing yards is not a good stat to determine a good qb.......passing touchdowns however is. But TT was never your prototype QB....he was never that. The bills moved on from him in search of what that was and I cant fault them for that. That wasn't even passing TD's. It was TOTAL TD's. Even when you factor in TT's running production, he sucked. Imagine thinking a QB who can't score as many points as some RB's and WR's doesn't suck. Couldn't be me. Edited June 4, 2018 by BringBackOrton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy KGB Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Always interesting to see how folks respond to having misinformation they post corrected. You're welcome! I thanked you in the reactions. The lysol lady was in regards to the 201 ypg, not the updated info. Not quite as bad as 158 ypg, but still pretty terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsBytheBay Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 The first wild throw Tyrod makes with Allen as his backup and the whole village burns.... Brothers and sisters tearing each other apart. In a perfect world we finish Tyrods contract all while waiting for Allen to WIN the job... But I think the bills made a smart move preventing drama. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 7 hours ago, GunnerBill said: You can be both in the camp that wanted to move on from Tyrod and that camp that does not think AJ McCarron will be an upgrade. Some people were ABTs - anyone but Tyrod - I wasn't. I just thought sticking with Tyrod was tying yourself to a road to average. I expect McCarron to be about the same as Tyrod as a passer - safe, conservative, sporadic moving the offense but a competitor and a game manager - and less than Tyrod as a runner (though he isn't totally immobile). The point to moving on from Tyrod was never about whether you could get similar play for a year or two from an AJ McCarron or a Case Keenum (as I advocated a year ago) it was about getting away from the baggage of having your former established starter sitting ahead of the guy who you really hope is the future - which we now know is Josh Allen. Like Hapless, I was about in the same place. I was a little shocked when Taylor was traded, not because he was the future but because I'm too risk averse to be a gm. I wouldn't have traded Tyrod until I knew I had my 2018 starter. It couldn't be a rookie, because I wouldn't put myself in the position of having to start my rookie. Maybe Beane knew he never could do worse than McCarron in the qb musical chairs that were about to begin, and, like Hapless, I'd figure that AJ would be what TT was the last couple of a years - a mediocre starter. So my shock at TT going lasted only until AJ signed. Then I thought talent-wise the Bills were in the same place they'd been with TT - looking for a long-term solution. Will I be completely surprised if Tyrod turns into a successful qb somewhere? No. He has NFL level physical talent. He's a better thrower than people give him credit for. It's possible that in a different environment, a different offense, he will blossom. But the odds on that happening got low enough for the Bills to decide to move on. Whatever the environment, a qb with four years on the bench and then three years starting should show progress, and Taylor didn't. J 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 2 hours ago, BringBackOrton said: ABT came from the fear that McD would roll with him again rather than taking a shot. At least for me. we could have done both. 2 hours ago, John from Riverside said: Anyone that gauges productivity off passing yards is already lost there are a lot of lost souls on TBD evidently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 I’m not sure why he even went there. The problem isn’t what he did, it’s where the bills front office wants to go. I do belive somewhere out there there’s an OC that could actually maximize him as the starting QB in an ok offense. It’s not Rico though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 57 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said: I thanked you in the reactions. The lysol lady was in regards to the 201 ypg, not the updated info. Not quite as bad as 158 ypg, but still pretty terrible. It ain’t a strong passing game, no doubt about that. Part of it was the offensive scheme but I thought it was pretty clear that when asked to do more with the passing game, Taylor couldn’t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 (edited) 55 minutes ago, JaxBills said: The first wild throw Tyrod makes with Allen as his backup and the whole village burns.... Brothers and sisters tearing each other apart. What do you think will happen if AJ or Nasty Nate throw an ill advised pick with Josh grooming on the sidelines? Besides, a.Coach that listens to the fans is soon sitting with them. i like Coach McDermott but don't want to sit with him. I hope he's not making his decisions based on what he thinks I want. Edited June 4, 2018 by reddogblitz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 4 hours ago, reddogblitz said: I thought last year was AMAZING to watch with all the wins and PLAYOFFS!! Hopefully this year is at least as good. I am pointing at the Offense. Tyrod was very much exposed with the Offense Dennison gave him. It was ugly at times. and Tolbert screens ? WTH was that all about. Mills was awful at PP and Ducasse was no shining star either. Receivers ? None returning and everyone injured at some point. Shady was the lone high point Defense was such a turn around from Ryans and a joy to behold ! It was a fun season. But the Offense sucked generally. Very much looking forward to the second year in the Process. I like Daboll And i must admit i honestly do like Leslie Frazier. I was NOT excited when he came on . Go Bills ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoandfourteen Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 8 hours ago, MURPHD6 said: Your idea of 'a real QB' needing to throw for 375 and 4tds regularly is entitled, unrealistic and silly. Its akin to being the creepy dude who only hits on girls that he thinks are 10's, and that dude never gets laid. I didn't say "regularly". I said "be capable of". Huge difference. A defensive coordinator has to account for the possibility that Ben Roethlisberger could put up 375/4 (just passing) on him on a Sunday. That would be considered a really good game for Ben, right? A defensive coordinator accounting for the possibility of a really good game from Taylor only has to worry about the guy throwing for 225/2 and rushing for 40/1. Now do you see the difference? Or do we have to take a step back and review how 375 is more than 265? Also, that analogy is awfully specific and personal. Feels like there's some projection going on here. Want to talk about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 15 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said: I am pointing at the Offense. Tyrod was very much exposed with the Offense Dennison gave him. It was ugly at times. and Tolbert screens ? WTH was that all about. Mills was awful at PP and Ducasse was no shining star either. Receivers ? None returning and everyone injured at some point. Shady was the lone high point Defense was such a turn around from Ryans and a joy to behold ! It was a fun season. But the Offense sucked generally. Very much looking forward to the second year in the Process. I like Daboll And i must admit i honestly do like Leslie Frazier. I was NOT excited when he came on . Go Bills ! ...still think TT's inherent weakness was ability to process entire field in 5 seconds of less nor did I see the passing game ever becoming a viable threat, particularly downfield.....at the same time Dennison was woefully inconsistent....one week he'd craft a game plan that took advantage of TT's mobility (probably a factor as to why he remains in the NFL mix today) and we'd get the "W"......the following week his "crafted plan" made you think TT was in a wheelchair....this clown was as frustrating as Hackett and even Fairchild.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 2 hours ago, John from Riverside said: My complaint is passing yards is not a good stat to determine a good qb.......passing touchdowns however is. So is passing yards not one of the criteria the HOF uses to determine a QB worthiness of being enshrined? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 1 minute ago, PeterGriffin said: So is passing yards not one of the criteria the HOF uses to determine a QB worthiness of being enshrined? Im sure it is...they throw it in there with you know actually WINNING. There are also lots of passing yards thrown by QBs.....in losses. My point here is there are other things that are real things you can bash Tyrod over and be legit.....but passing yards on a team that runs the ball a ton? 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: It ain’t a strong passing game, no doubt about that. Part of it was the offensive scheme but I thought it was pretty clear that when asked to do more with the passing game, Taylor couldn’t. He simply wasnt a franchise QB....he could not put the team on his shoulders....and he didnt improve even though he was given years to do it. I still say he was not a "sucky" qb......just not what we needed if we wanted to be a real playoff team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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