MMQB: Why the Browns are making a mistake with Baker Mayfield (by starting Tyrod)

[YoloinOhio]

Hue Jackson reiterates: “Tyrod Taylor’s the starting quarterback of this football team, and that won’t change.”
This is misguided political correctness spiraling out of control. Jackson feels he has to say this because Taylor will be 29 in August and has paid his NFL dues; he doesn’t want the 23-year-old Baker Mayfield to look entitled. But it’s not like Taylor is a tested veteran who’s beloved in Cleveland’s locker room—he just arrived a few months ago. The Browns traded the 65th overall pick to get him. They spent the first overall pick on Mayfield. A safe assumption is the Browns spent 10,000% more time and effort researching Mayfield than they did Taylor. They’ve trumpeted Mayfield’s football IQ and natural leadership. If they actually believe in their scouting process, why not declare Mayfield the starter right now? Why give even one of No. 1 pick’s reps to the guy you acquired with the 65th pick?

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/05/11/mistake-browns-are-making-baker-mayfield

[uticaclub]

Minicamps haven’t even started yet, there’s no way Baker doesn’t beat out Tyrod for the starting job

[YoloinOhio]

2 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

Minicamps haven’t even started yet, there’s no way Baker doesn’t beat out Tyrod for the starting job

Hue keeps doubling down saying it won’t happen. QB controversy will be fierce if Baker looks that much better and they don’t play him. 

[StHustle]

1 minute ago, uticaclub said:

Minicamps haven’t even started yet, there’s no way Baker doesn’t beat out Tyrod for the starting job

 

You are silly to think Mayfield will be better than or even equal to Tyrod by the start of the regular season. Not sure if you are serious or trolling.

 

As far as the article stating the Browns should declare Mayfield the starter right now shows the author may even have a lower football IQ than you uticaclub.

[JoeF]

2 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Hue keeps doubling down saying it won’t happen. QB controversy will be fierce if Baker looks that much better and they don’t play him. 

I wanted Hue over Rex when the Bills hired Rex...I now see the Bills couldn't have made a good choice with either finalist...Its not this decision alone its the way he has to grab attention and use his media friends to feed his ego.  Give me an understated, humble coach.

Edited May 12, 2018 by JoeF

[YoloinOhio]

1 minute ago, StHustle said:

 

You are silly to think Mayfield will be better than or even equal to Tyrod by the start of the regular season. Not sure if you are serious or trolling.

 

As far as the article stating the Browns should declare Mayfield the starter right now shows the author may even have a lower football IQ than you uticaclub.

The author didn’t really say they should just declare Mayfield the starter .... it said they shouldn’t declare TT the starter. They should give mayfield enough reps to possibly become the starter instead of giving him Qb 3 reps and assuming TT should get starter reps all through camp.

[GoBills808]

3 minutes ago, StHustle said:

 

You are silly to think Mayfield will be better than or even equal to Tyrod by the start of the regular season. Not sure if you are serious or trolling.

 

As far as the article stating the Browns should declare Mayfield the starter right now shows the author may even have a lower football IQ than you uticaclub.

I think it's pretty reasonable to think Mayfield could equal or best Taylor in camp and preseason, like a Wilson/Flynn situation except Mayfield was #1 overall and if things look even between him and Taylor that's added incentive to give him the nod. There's no institutional loyalty to Taylor in Cleveland.

[HappyDays]

Eh I get it. Mayfield comes from a spread offense and needs to work on his footwork. They don't need to rush him into the starting spot, they can afford to spend at least half a season developing him. The Browns aren't good yet. They're paying Tyrod $16 million to be a capable bridge starter. I kind of wish we would do a similar thing with Allen.

[SouthNYfan]

6 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I think it's pretty reasonable to think Mayfield could equal or best Taylor in camp and preseason, like a Wilson/Flynn situation except Mayfield was #1 overall and if things look even between him and Taylor that's added incentive to give him the nod. There's no institutional loyalty to Taylor in Cleveland.

 

Nothing like Wilson/Flynn.

 

As you said Mayfield was the #1 pick.

That's a big difference than what Wilson came into the league as, just in terms of expectations and $$/draft capital committed to him from day 1.

Flynn was basically Rob Johnson 2.0.

He had a total of 2 starts in GB over the previous 2 seasons, including the 6td game at the end of the year before he went to Seattle.

He had ZERO experience compared to Tyrod, who is a relatively known entity.

Tyrod was a proven starter with pro bowls under his belt.

 

I am glad he's gone, and was not a huge fan, but to compare Flynn to him is insulting to Tyrod.

 

To think they are even remotely similar is just clueless man.

[Lurker]

38 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/05/11/mistake-browns-are-making-baker-mayfield

 

Wasted server space from SI...

[GoBills808]

4 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

Nothing like Wilson/Flynn.

 

As you said Mayfield was the #1 pick.

That's a big difference than what Wilson came into the league as, just in terms of expectations and $$/draft capital committed to him from day 1.

Flynn was basically Rob Johnson 2.0.

He had a total of 2 starts in GB over the previous 2 seasons, including the 6td game at the end of the year before he went to Seattle.

He had ZERO experience compared to Tyrod, who is a relatively known entity.

Tyrod was a proven starter with pro bowls under his belt.

 

I am glad he's gone, and was not a huge fan, but to compare Flynn to him is insulting to Tyrod.

 

To think they are even remotely similar is just clueless man.

I was just casting around for a comparable situation and that was the first one that came to mind. It's not totally analogous, obviously. I still think there's merit in looking at how a guy brought in to be a placeholder/bridge can sometimes be overtaken by a rookie. 

[SouthNYfan]

9 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I was just casting around for a comparable situation and that was the first one that came to mind. It's not totally analogous, obviously. I still think there's merit in looking at how a guy brought in to be a placeholder/bridge can sometimes be overtaken by a rookie. 

 

It's not even comparable though.

When Flynn was signed, Seattle thought he was going to be their franchise guy, and one of Seattle's front office guys was with GB when Flynn was there, and was really high on him.

Wilson was not intended to start,

They actually got panned by many for drafting a QB when they had just signed Flynn to $10mil guaranteed, which was a decent amount back in 2011-2012

[jr1]

Baker should start. There will be growing pains but he needs the reps

[Hapless Bills Fan]

55 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/05/11/mistake-browns-are-making-baker-mayfield

 

I personally like the way McBeane are handling the QB thing much better: Allen is slotted at #3 right now, but if he looks like the best QB going through camp that could change.

I personally don't like what Hue Jackson is doing, proclaiming Taylor the starter before they've all made a throw in the building.

 

But blaming everything on "political correctness spiraling out of control" has...well, gotten out of control.

 

Pre-draft, you heavily scout players before you invest draft capital because the college game is that different, the adjustment to the pro game is that problematical, and the impact on a guy's character of overnight millions is that challenging to predict.  When you got a guy who has started in the league 3 years, he has already adjusted, millions have already impacted him or not, and you have 3 seasons of NFL game film to watch good and bad.

 

It's a bullsh*t argument.

 

 

[grb]

13 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I was just casting around for a comparable situation and that was the first one that came to mind. It's not totally analogous, obviously. I still think there's merit in looking at how a guy brought in to be a placeholder/bridge can sometimes be overtaken by a rookie. 

 

When Taylor had a comparable amount of offensive talent around him in Buffalo as now in Cleveland?

He finished seventh in the NFL by passer rating - ahead of Cam Newton, Matthew Stafford, Alex Smith, Ben Roethlisberger, etc, etc.

Maybe that's worth considering too.

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/quarterbackRating/year/2015

[GoBills808]

8 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

It's not even comparable though.

When Flynn was signed, Seattle thought he was going to be their franchise guy, and one of Seattle's front office guys was with GB when Flynn was there, and was really high on him.

Wilson was not intended to start,

They actually got panned by many for drafting a QB when they had just signed Flynn to $10mil guaranteed, which was a decent amount back in 2011-2012

How is that not comparable? That's pretty close to the situation between Taylor/Mayfield and the Browns currently. People are saying they overpaid for Taylor and the word out of Cleveland's FO is that Taylor's the starter.

 

6 minutes ago, grb said:

 

When Taylor had a comparable amount of offensive talent around him in Buffalo as now in Cleveland?

He finished seventh in the NFL by passer rating - ahead of Cam Newton, Matthew Stafford, Alex Smith, Ben Roethlisberger, etc, etc.

Maybe that's worth considering too.

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/quarterbackRating/year/2015

Yes, Taylor was an efficient quarterback. Nobody disputes that.

[Kirby Jackson]

The reason that the Browns are going with Tyrod is they need to win now. They are1-32 over the last two years!! With Taylor they win at least 6 games and may contend for a wild card. The whole culture needs to change in Cleveland. Tyrod is there to stabilize and then Baker to elevate them. It’s pretty similar to here in that sense. The Bills are stabilized and now they need to take the next step.

[PIZ]

For those that watched or remembered Taylor at Bills practices, did he excel there?  Did he look like a starter in practice.  Obviously games he always didn't, but did he look great in practice?

 

The Browns might be in for a shock if Taylor excels in practice and then flops in the games.

 

 

[Bobby Hooks]

I’ve never understood the reasoning behind making a player wait if they’re the obvious winners in training camp. 

 

Its an archaic way of running a team. There’s no set blueprint. Some players benefit from sitting, some don’t. Forcing a player to sit “just because” it’s myopia at its finest. 

 

If you win the job you should play. 

[Fadingpain]

I agree Hue Jackson's handling of all this is wrong, but then again, is anyone impressed with the intelligence of Hue Jackson?  He's a dead man walking and will be replaced soon enough in any event.

 

 

[YoloinOhio]

I see both sides in that they really mishandled DeShone Kizer as a rookie and feel they need to do it differently this time. Yet, I don’t see why you need to declare anyone the starter this early since all 3 QBs are brand new to the team anyway. 

Edited May 12, 2018 by YoloinOhio

[SouthNYfan]

5 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

How is that not comparable? That's pretty close to the situation between Taylor/Mayfield and the Browns currently. People are saying they overpaid for Taylor and the word out of Cleveland's FO is that Taylor's the starter.

 

Yes, Taylor was an efficient quarterback. Nobody disputes that.

 

Let me repeat this for you, again.

 

Matt Flynn was signed by Seattle with the intent of being the starter and franchise guy.

Wilson was drafted in the third as backup, maybe insurance for Flynn.

 

Tyrod Taylor was traded for with intent of being the bridge.

Baker Mayfield was the #1 overall pick and fully expected to be the franchise starter.

 

They are not comparable.

 

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

Let me repeat this for you, again.

 

Matt Flynn was signed by Seattle with the intent of being the starter and franchise guy.

Wilson was drafted in the third as backup, maybe insurance for Flynn.

 

Tyrod Taylor was traded for with intent of being the bridge.

Baker Mayfield was the #1 overall pick and fully expected to be the franchise starter.

 

They are not comparable.

 

So, just to clarify:

 

Flynn was signed by Seattle with the intent of being the starter.

 

Taylor was signed by Cleveland with the intent of being the starter.

 

Wilson was drafted by the Seahawks that year to presumably back up Flynn.

 

Mayfield was drafted by the Browns that year to presumably back up Taylor.

 

 

[SouthNYfan]

3 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I see both sides in that they really mishandled DeShone Kizer as a rookie and feel they need to do it differently this time. Yet, I don’t see why you need to declare anyone the starter this early since all 3 QBs are brand new to the team anyway. 

 

It's the Browns.

They are like the Kings in the NBA.

I doesn't matter who is running the team or who they get as players, it's a complete tire fire.

[Bobby Hooks]

5 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I see both sides in that they really mishandled DeShone Kizer as a rookie and feel they need to do it differently this time. Yet, I don’t see why you need to declare anyone the starter this early since all 3 QBs are brand new to the team anyway. 

Exactly. The flip side of this is some teams having the ride or die mentality with playing the qb you spent a high draft pick on even when he’s been outperformed by a backup. 

 

Its backwards thinking. 

 

You should play play the best qb on the team regardless of draft status, youth, etc...

 

if a guys ready I think you could actually set him back in his progression sitting him. All you’re really training them to do is be a backup. 

 

Edited May 12, 2018 by Bobby Hooks

[Koko78]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/05/11/mistake-browns-are-making-baker-mayfield

 

I didn't think it was a mistake for the Bungles to sit Carson Palmer behind John Kitna his rookie season, and I don't think it's a mistake to sit Mayfield for his rookie season.

 

That said, if he beats out Tyrod at camp and shows that he's ready to run an NFL offense (including reading defenses/adjusting protections/etc.), he should start week 1.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, JoeF said:

I wanted Hue over Rex when the Bills hired Rex...I now see the Bills couldn't have made a good choice with either finalist...Its not this decision alone its the way he has to grab attention and use his media friends to feed his ego.  Give me an understated, humble coach.

 

 You are singing my song.  I, too wanted Hue over Rex

I was wrong

[H2o]

I have no doubt that Baker will play his way onto the field this year. He will outperform Tyrod in camp, in preseason, and then when he gets his chance to start. Tyrod may start week 1 for the sake of being a veteran, but I bet by week 4 Mayfield is getting his run. 

[YoloinOhio]

The Jets also declared McCown the starter already, but that’s a little more understandable given that he started there last year.

[SouthNYfan]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

So, just to clarify:

 

Flynn was signed by Seattle with the intent of being the starter.

 

Taylor was signed by Cleveland with the intent of being the starter.

 

Wilson was drafted by the Seahawks that year to presumably back up Flynn.

 

Mayfield was drafted by the Browns that year to presumably back up Taylor.

 

 

 

No.

You are over simplifying and ignoring facts to fit your narrative.

 

Flynn was signed with intent on being the long term starter, with Wilson intended to be the 3rd round drafted backup.

 

Tyrod was traded for with intent on being the short term/bridge starter, with the #1 overall pick Baker Mayfield being selected to be the franchise, long term starter as soon as he is ready.

 

Your simplification is like saying a Chevrolet Corvette and a Ford festival are "comparable" in that they are "both cars with 4 wheels"

[YoloinOhio]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 You are singing my song.  I, too wanted Hue over Rex

I was wrong

I’m not sure there is a “right” answer between those two

[Wayne Arnold]

Baker Mayfield trying to get away from backup quarterback status like...

 

[SouthNYfan]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

I’m not sure there is a “right” answer between those two

 

Hue guided them to back to back #1 overall picks.

Almost 3 in a row.

The man is consistent, if nothing else ??

[JohnC]

58 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

Eh I get it. Mayfield comes from a spread offense and needs to work on his footwork. They don't need to rush him into the starting spot, they can afford to spend at least half a season developing him. The Browns aren't good yet. They're paying Tyrod $16 million to be a capable bridge starter. I kind of wish we would do a similar thing with Allen.

How do you know the Bills aren't going to do the same thing as the Browns are by starting the veteran? I see McCarron being the starter. 

 

Sometime in the season Mayfield is going to get on the field. Odds are after that he will remain the starter. The longer that Cleveland continues to vie for a playoff spot the longer TT remains the starter. Once they are close to be officially out of the running Mayfield will become their starter for the foreseeable future.  

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

No.

You are over simplifying and ignoring facts to fit your narrative.

 

Flynn was signed with intent on being the long term starter, with Wilson intended to be the 3rd round drafted backup.

 

Tyrod was traded for with intent on being the short term/bridge starter, with the #1 overall pick Baker Mayfield being selected to be the franchise, long term starter as soon as he is ready.

 

Your simplification is like saying a Chevrolet Corvette and a Ford festival are "comparable" in that they are "both cars with 4 wheels"

So because Flynn signed a 3 year deal it makes it wholly different from Taylor's 2 year deal? I see no evidence the Browns view Taylor any differently than the Seahawks did Flynn. 

 

As to the bolded: it's obviously a simplification. Are you trying to say that two different cars (or anything, for that matter) shouldn't be compared? Consumer Reports must drive you nuts.

 

 

[YoloinOhio]

4 minutes ago, JohnC said:

How do you know the Bills aren't going to do the same thing as the Browns are by starting the veteran? I see McCarron being the starter. 

 

Sometime in the season Mayfield is going to get on the field. Odds are after that he will remain the starter. The longer that Cleveland continues to vie for a playoff spot the longer TT remains the starter. Once they are close to be officially out of the running Mayfield will become their starter for the foreseeable future.  

The Bills are probably going to end up starting McCarron, but publically they are saying the starting job is open. I dont think they are committed to starting McCarron. This is the team that benched the starter and started a 5th rd rookie on the road against one of the best pass rushes in the league. Not sure they care if they are starting a rookie too soon if they believe he’s the best option at that time. 

Edited May 12, 2018 by YoloinOhio

[SouthNYfan]

8 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

So because Flynn signed a 3 year deal it makes it wholly different from Taylor's 2 year deal? I see no evidence the Browns view Taylor any differently than the Seahawks did Flynn. 

 

As to the bolded: it's obviously a simplification. Are you trying to say that two different cars (or anything, for that matter) shouldn't be compared? Consumer Reports must drive you nuts.

 

 

 

Calling something "comparable" isn't the same thing as "comparing one thing to another"

 

"Comparable" means they are similar/alike, or right equivalent

"Comparing one thing to another" is looking at their similarities and differences

 

They are not the same thing

 

Tyrod/Mayfield is not "comparable" to Flynn/Wilson

 

Flynn was signed to be the franchise starter long term. This was reported on by literally every news source, and stated by Seattle.

Tyrod was traded for to be the 1-2 year starter at most until they felt Mayfield was ready

 

I have said this like 4 times now.

Your reading comprehension isn't very good.

Edited May 12, 2018 by SouthNYfan

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

The Bills are probably going to end up starting McCarron, but publically they are saying the starting job is open. 

I agree with your comment. They have to say the job is open because if Peterman outplays McCarron in camp and preseason he will be the starter. No one at this stage can say for sure who is going to be the qb but odds are it is going to be McCarron. I don't see this staff starting Allen right away even if he outplays or plays as well as the other two qbs. They simply have too much invested in him and the future to risk playing him right away. That's my current fluid opinion. 

[Just Joshin']

15 minutes ago, Koko78 said:

 

I didn't think it was a mistake for the Bungles to sit Carson Palmer behind John Kitna his rookie season, and I don't think it's a mistake to sit Mayfield for his rookie season.

 

That said, if he beats out Tyrod at camp and shows that he's ready to run an NFL offense (including reading defenses/adjusting protections/etc.), he should start week 1.

I agree the better player should start.  The question is can Mayfield prove he can read defenses while playing generic pre-season defenses?

 

On the other hand can you learn from the bench?

[greeneblitz]

its idiotic to make proclimations prior to training camp