Frankly Speaking ~ A Non-Political Thought About Ethnicity & the QB Spot.

[Thurmal34]

Cops kill and then lie. What, they don’t?

[downunderbill]

1 hour ago, smuvtalker said:

I think you bring up some excellent points in this post, to which I can say, i agree with pretty much all of them.  The issue i see made most clearly, and most often from you is that there might be more great black football players if there was better funding in the inner city, rural, and less-privileged areas to create more legitimate, nicer, better-coached, and more attractive football programs. 

 

However, don't think that is the point that the OP was trying to make in his post.  i took from his "post", that he feels that the only real reason there is a lack of black quarterbacks in the NFL is because the black athlete who is better physically equipped to play QB would simply rather play basketball.  Simple as that, am I correct OP?  If so, I don't necessarily disagree with that sentiment, because I'm quite certain there ARE plenty of black kids who are physically built with a prototypical NFL size, (6'5, 240) who would much rather play basketball than football.  It could be for a number of reasons...perhaps like you mentioned, they grew up loving basketball more than other sports they learned, including football.  Maybe they never even tried playing football at all, or just didn't like it.  You also mentioned that there is no magical quality that black men don't have that enables them to excel at the QB position.  You are right.  if you take a handful of the greatest QBs of all-time, Manning, Brady, Favre, Brees, Montana, and dissect them from top to bottom, you'll find nothing in them that they have that no black quarterback has.  We're all created exactly the same. 

 

in my opinion, what separates these quarterbacks from the rest, is their intellect.  Please don't mistake this as me saying that black quarterbacks are not smart enough to play the position, as that is not my viewpoint at all.  But the QB position is by far the most cerebral position in football, and to be successful, the most vital mental attributes you must have are: 1)the ability to read defenses, pre and post snap. you MUST be able to process what you are seeing from the defense, know what they plan on bringing at you in the next 15 seconds, make necessary audibles, and have all 10 other guys where they're supposed to be.  There's a reason the delay of game penalty is always called on the quarterback, no matter who wasn't ready.  2)the ability to QUICKLY go through your progressions once the ball is snapped, anticipating the pass rush, feeling it, knowing how to step up in the pocket, or slide AWAY from the direction of the oncoming rusher, ALL THE WHILE still keeping your eyes upfield, finding the open receiver(and that doesn't mean sitting all alone at a spot on the field, or streaking down the sideline with a two-step separation from the DB.  open meaning seeing where the receiver IS, "anticipating' where he's going to be, and throwing the ball to a spot that allows him to continue running his route and gain separation from the DB, and making a catch that also enables him to continue running without having to break his stride, jump, change his body direction thus ending the catch there.  Being able to throw a receiver open is an invaluable asset for a QB have to begin to be considered "great' or "elite". 

 

Those two traits alone are among the most difficult to possess, and while they can certainly be learned, feel like many of the great ones were blessed with these gifts early on, and were able to easily develop them to where they were just a part of their brain.  It is a combination of mental-makeup, quick problem solving skills, plus quick-twitch muscle firing ability that allows them to do this, and make the kind of throws that drop jaws with relative ease.  It is not something exclusive to white quarterbacks by any means.  Warren Moon was an absolute surgeon with the football, and I remember watching him slice, dice, filet, torch, and destroy a Buffalo Bills secondary to the tune of 35 points in just over 2 quarters.  To this day I don't know if I've seen a more accurate display of passing in such a short amount of time from anyone else. (Thank God almighty that it was in His plan for us to win that day, because WM was hotter than the sun) With that said, I think that with the QB position requiring a much greater cerebal capacity, the mental demands that come with playing the position could make it a much less attractive option than maybe in years past, that perhaps that in itself could be a reason that a black athlete otherwise physically equipped to play might just say, no thanks.  I'd rather play basketball.  A sport that requires less thought can easily be more attractive to every race of athlete.  And hell, it's not just black QBs that come out of college that aren't successful.  Most QBs that come out of college aren't successful.  But with regard to race, what I really am getting sick of is as soon as someone makes a comment that they don't like Lamar Jackson, or they didn't like Tyrod, they are considered racist.  Why can't they just not like them because they think they suck?  Or not like the fact that Tyrod held the ball too long?  Or that he refused to throw to receivers that weren't open enough to smoke a cigarette?  Or that in his final game, his audition tape for the rest of the NFL, a playoff game nonetheless, he did all of the things that made people go bonkers?  Refusing to throw the ball, never taking chances, even with the game almost over, down by one score.   Why can't they not like Lamar because his main knocks are accuracy issues, inability to read defenses, and happy feet?  While I don't doubt for a second that there are probably more people on this site that don't like Taylor or Jackson because of the color of their skin than i'd care to ever know, I do feel like it's getting to a point where people are afraid to say anything negative about a black QB for fear of being called a racist.  Somethin's gotta give soon people. 

. 

 

 

 

 

 

Biology is everything when it comes to sport and it's not racist to point out. As an example, how many African Americans hold world records in swimming? To counter that, how many Caucasians hold world records in sprinting? 

 

It's the same with throwing vs speed/strength positions in football, baseball and basketball ect. When it comes to elite sports, biology doesn't care.

Edited April 1, 2018 by downunderbill
Remove the political correctness jibe.

[CamboBill]

14 hours ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

Hello everyone ...

 

 

Actually this was a well though out and coherent post. You took a POV and made a solid rational argument with it which might cause people to think about the topic of Black qbs in a different way.

 

I agree with the points you make specifically about the NBA and MLB being much sounder career choices  for athletes in terms of probability of success, compensation, health and career longevity. I would add to your argument that for a  failed NBA wannabe .... there are numerous other markets in Europe and Asia, where one can go and have a very prosperous career.  With failed NFL wannabes ... it is pretty much CFL, coaching or go sell tvs at best buy.  For anyone talented to enough to choose between a pro football career or a pro basketball career, basketball is a much sounder choice career wise.  Tight end is also a position where whites (marginally) outnumber blacks ... and the size and athletic traits for that position closely resemble those of basketball forwards, so it is an interesting perspective.

 

The issue I have with your post, is that it seems to be trying to answer something without being clear about what actual question is being answered.  If it is an attempt to explain why 4/6 NFL players are black but only 1/6 of of starting QBS are black then your thoughts could possibly explain some of that disparity.

 

However, I am not sure anyone believes there is any conspiracy to keep black QBS out of the NFL.  As several pointed out on the thread where I mentioned race in the Lamar/Tyrod context,  most people will support anyone if he can lead to a super bowl.  Usama bin Laden III from Riyadh university could be cheered on if he was super bowl mvp.

 

There are many reasons for blacks being under-represented at QB ... the reasons you allude to, economic reasons (as another poster on this thread mentioned) as well as coaching and development issues.  At the HS or college level, If a coach has a player with Peyton Manning passing potential,  but can also run a 4.3 40, there is a high likelihood the coach will make the QB a running QB and maybe not spend as much time on development as a passer.  This is not "racist" on the part of the coach ... coaches are paid to win, and if option based offenses are seen as the best path to victory at that level (hs or college)that is what they will use even if it hinders the development of the qb overall.

 

Where I do think black qbs are disadvantaged is when it comes to lazy stereotyping ... many people judge all qbs who can run as being similar to each other (the Lamar Jackson is the next rg3 syndrom) but are more willing to get into the nuanced differences when it comes to "pocket passers".   I also think some fan bases have less patience with a struggling QB who is from a different race than with one with whom they can more easily identify with.  people will support a champion no matter what color he is ... the real test comes with a player who is struggling.  I remember the frustration with Fitzpatrick here, but I don't recall anywhere near the vitriol compared to what Tyrod (a superior QB) endured here.

 

Finally it is worth mentioning market forces and so called "desired target audiences".  I lived in Cleveland for a while in the early  90s .... Almost all the local endorsement and sponsorship deals went to Mark Price and Craig Ehlo, while guys like Larry Nance, Brad Daugherty, and Hot Rod Williams could get almost nothing.  There is nothing particularly racist about Cleveland (a city I find similar to Buffalo)but with many  advertisers "white" sells better than "black" outside of the shoe sector.  True superstars like Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, and others) can transcend this barrier, but in some markets mid tier players cannot.  It is not race hate, but it is race based.  It is not totally uneasonable to believe that a black QB ... playing a positionthat is generally considered as being the face of the franchise ... gets a shorter rope from management and fans alike, unless he is playing at an All Pro level.

Edited April 1, 2018 by CamboBill

[dollars 2 donuts]

I wish you would have been a little bit more expansive with this post.

 

and yes, the preamble should have been longer, but at least you nailed the ethnicity thing.

 

that sarcastically said, I must say the overall point wasn’t that bad.

 

the best point: there are about 16 guys that can do this well.

[SoTier]

10 hours ago, dulles said:

I think that the OP may be conflating ethnicity with "color."   Color is only a few cells deep.  Ethnicity is generally considered to be a multifaceted collection of traits, both material and immaterial.  I believe ethnicity is a more popular term because "race" and "color" have become loaded words.  

 

Assuming the OP was "right" about 5 NFL QB's hiding in the NBA, he may be on to something.  I think that's a HUGE if.   This is the dilemma US Soccer, Hockey and Baseball have all faced on the international level for decades.  The talent follows the money and for whatever reason, American money has supported the NFL and NBA more faithfully than the other larger sports.

 

Regardless, I hope the OP's got thick skin, because I can see this conversation spiraling out of control in a hurry!
 

 

Actually, ethnicity isn't that at all.  It's the fact of belonging to/ identifying with a social group that shares a common national or cultural tradition.  In the US it's primarily used to describe European Americans who have strong cultural ties to their European roots (ie, Italians, Greeks, Polish, etc) but is also frequently used to describe Latinos (Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, Brazilians, etc).   Asians, too, have distinct ethnic groups like Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, etc.  It's not usually associated with blacks in the US but there are a few distinct cultural groups among American blacks, most notably Haitians and Jamaicans. 

 

Ethnicity is not the same thing or even close to the same thing as "race" or "color" at all unless you go back to the archaic usage of "race" used in the late 19th century when  some racist writers popularized the idea of ethnic groups as "races" as in "the German race" or "the Anglo Saxon race".   Ethnicity is primarily based on culture.  Race is primarily based on physical characteristics, most notably skin color.

 

[SoTier]

10 hours ago, nedboy7 said:

Uh oh. Someone made the heina pack mad. Better pray for your soul bro. 

 

The word is "hyena".  It's a dog-like scavenger found primarily in Africa.

6 hours ago, Mickey said:

Lurking in the dense fog of verbiage that is this post are some worthwhile issues that could have been discussed that were not. There are factors that can have an effect on what sports a High School offers and which sports attract the best athletes that seem to me to be of far more importance than the factors this poster appears to raise though honestly, I am not sure what he was trying to say. Issues like resegregation, shrinking budgets, school secession and unequal school resources play a part.  Its infinitely cheaper to field a basketball team than a football team. Poorer schools in rural areas and in cities are often going to struggle to keep decent football programs afloat. Not so with basketball. The result is going to be fewer good football players from that school but plenty of good basketball players. 

 

Here in Syracuse, the best HS football team is almost invariably CBA, a private school whose tuition rivals that of most colleges. As a catholic school, they can recruit kids from any school district and offer them scholarships to attend CBA for free. Their facilities, coaches and equipment are all top notch. Liverpool is also a powerhouse as they have the largest population and tax base. They have excellent coaches, training facilities and other equipment. At one time they had two freshman and two JV teams feeding the varsity roster. Many of the city schools which used to dominate in years past are struggling just to keep a team on the field. And its not just a HS problem, the peewee and pop warner teams in the city have all but evaporated for want of funding. I was an assistant coach for one of them and it was a major challenge just figuring out how to get the kids to practice as so many of their parents were working 2 and 3 jobs. 

 

The problem isn't limited to just football. City schools in Syracuse used to field excellent girls soccer teams. Not anymore. They have had to resort to fielding a combined team that draws players from the entire district. Even so, they play on a field with no bleachers, no restrooms, no loudspeaker and more rocks and broken glass than grass. Part of their problem is the fallout from the football teams. These schools increasingly have to reduce the budgets for anything that isn't football to keep their football programs lurching along. Thus they siphon funds from the soccer teams, the swim teams, the lacrosse teams, etc in a losing effort to remain competitive in football.

 

We will never know how many great athletes are lost along the way to poverty. There are loads of small rural schools in CNY who don't have the numbers or the money to filed a football program. I don't really care how any of this effects the NFL, I do care about the effect it has on middle school and HS athletes of all sports.

 

Very well said.   Living in a small (by population not land area), predominantly rural county, I can attest to this.  Numerous schools in Chautauqua County have gone to combined programs to keep football teams on the field.  In this area, it predominantly affects white athletes rather than blacks, but it's a problem throughout rural/small town America but especially in the Plains states where some areas are becoming depopulated. 

[BuffaloSol]

12 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

I would choose NBA or MLB > NFL all day if I had the skills to excel in each. 

 

Some guy named Greg Holland just signed a one year 14 million dollar deal in baseball.  

 

Thats a sweet deal for a middle reliever. 

Holland was around third in saves last year in the MLB.

Edited April 1, 2018 by BuffaloSol

[{::'KayCeeS::}]

I think this a very interesting perspective, and not worthy of all the flippant hate.

 

On the other hand, I don't see what it has to do with ethinicity.  So I think that's a valid criticism.

 

But we should be, as a community, encouraging more thoughtful threads like this, even if you don't agree at all with them.

 

So bravo, Mr. Meanie, keep doing what you do.

Edited April 1, 2018 by {::'KayCeeS::}

[Foxx]

14 hours ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

Hello everyone and welcome to Frankly Speaking.

 

 

Frankly Speaking is straight talk about The Buffalo Bills, the team that put the “We” in weenie.

 

This topic is a perilous one but I will go ahead and say what I think. I hope everyone will please allow me the kindness to believe me when I say I am on the level and I have no agenda here aside from suggesting an idea.

 

That is the truth. Please read what I say before forming an opinion about the post, the idea, or me.

 

This post is about an idea I have that I think is worth considering when we look at the ethnicity of NFL quarterbacks. ...

was the consumption of alcohol involved with the making of this thread? the content does not really match the title.

 

11 hours ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

Yes.

 

It is hard, or impossible to word things nowadays without inflaming someone. But yes that is what I was trying to say. ...

honestly, BLM, i don't think the responses are due to the way you worded things here. rather it was that you did not tie up the title to the content of your post. i think i know what you were going for, but you just kind of abandoned it.

Edited April 1, 2018 by Foxx

[dave mcbride]

I think it is a known fact that African American men who can choose between a professional football and basketball career choose the latter almost every time. As Badolbilz wrote in a different context, the best basketball players among current NFL players would be backups at best in the Turkish pro basketball league.  Interestingly, Nick Foles said after the NFC championship game that he was finally getting back on track because he was finally dispensing with all of the overcoaching (e.g., Jeff Fisher's classic pro-style Coryell system) he had received in the previous 2-3 years and getting back to how he had played in college and earlier in his NFL career: as a point guard. I watched him play in the SB with that in mind, and it was uncanny (side note: I'd trade our #12 pick for him in a second). My point is that there is a ton of overlap between point guard and qb, and if a player is good at the former, he is more likely to go that route. He may not make the pros, but if he plays at a high level in HS and even college, he ain't playing football--ever. The OP's argument is a little foggy, but he's onto something. 

Edited April 1, 2018 by dave mcbride

[BadLandsMeanie]

58 minutes ago, Foxx said:

was the consumption of alcohol involved with the making of this thread? the content does not really match the title.

 

honestly, BLM, i don't think the responses are due to the way you worded things here. rather it was that you did not tie up the title to the content of your post. i think i know what you were going for, but you just kind of abandoned it.

Yeah I am getting the idea that I was too foggy thanks Foxx. 

 

Sometimes I think that the way my mind works is the exact same as everyone else which is not true of course. In my head this bit right here said it all, but apparently mostly only to me!

 

Quote

So picture the group of men who can do all that at a very high level.

Now take away everyone from that small group, who also has the skills to play professional basketball.

 Who do we have left?

 

 

To me the answer was "White people". I thought that answer would pop into everybody's head but plainly I was wrong.

 

But I didn't want to write that because it was a sort of punchline and it is a serious post. Plus it is a group statement which any time you make a general statement about groups of people, it is wrong. It can only be mostly right at best.

 

Anyway thanks for your feedback I will try and learn from it.

Edited April 1, 2018 by BadLandsMeanie

[Foxx]

22 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

Yeah I am getting the idea that I was too foggy thanks Foxx. 

 

Sometimes I think that the way my mind works is the exact same as everyone else which is not true of course. In my head this bit right here said it all, but apparently mostly only to me!

 

 

To me the answer was "White people". I thought that answer would pop into everybody's head but plainly I was wrong.

 

But I didn't want to write that because it was a sort of punchline and it is a serious post. Plus it is a group statement which any time you make a general statement about groups of people, it is wrong. It can only be mostly right at best.

 

Anyway thanks for your feedback I will try and learn from it.

i didn't intend to be harsh, i hope i didn't come across that way. more of a friendly hey....

 

like i said previously, i am pretty sure i knew what you were going for and the topic is a hot button one for sure. so perhaps it was trepidation at broaching a touchy subject that is difficult at best to discuss. i think though had you inserted, "White people", it would have brought the post together more but potentially opened it up for a different kind of flaming. i think i know you though, in that you are not racist at all and this is a serious query on your part.

 

anyhoo, Happy Easter.

Edited April 1, 2018 by Foxx

[Chicken Boo]

13 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

I would choose NBA or MLB > NFL all day if I had the skills to excel in each. 

 

Some guy named Greg Holland just signed a one year 14 million dollar deal in baseball.  

 

Thats a sweet deal for a middle reliever. 

 

Jeff Samardzija is a prime example.  

 

He's 33 and will make $19.5 million, guaranteed, for the next 3 seasons.

[Teddy KGB]

5 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

Jeff Samardzija is a prime example.  

 

He's 33 and will make $19.5 million, guaranteed, for the next 3 seasons.

 

Great example.     He could been like Chris Hogan if he chose NFL or on his way out due to age.   

Edited April 1, 2018 by Teddy KGB

[Elite Poster]

What he meant to say was there aren't as many good black QBs because the NBA is stealing the black talent.

 

Now there's a hot take. 

[BadLandsMeanie]

6 hours ago, CamboBill said:

...

 

  I remember the frustration with Fitzpatrick here, but I don't recall anywhere near the vitriol compared to what Tyrod (a superior QB) endured here.

 

...

 

Thanks for the reply. My problem with the racial questioning is that it is not a neutral question. And people act like it is. I think you did also.

 

So when someone says  like, Oh just asking, but I wonder if you fans are behaving in a racist way? Let's discuss it. 

 

That isn't a civil, neutral, reasonable decent thing to say to someone. Especially when you don't know them.

 

 That is what I was trying to illustrate to you when I responded with the the thoughts about you being an older male expat in Cambodia. Paraphrasing: "Oh, I wonder if you moved there to exploit human beings? I am not saying for sure that is what you have done. Just that people fitting your profile do that. Can you explain why you are not there for that reason, because otherwise I don't understand why anyone would move to that nation to retire"

 

I don't think that was inoffensive to you, in the same way your posts were not inoffensive to me.

 

It is actually not much different at all than when the NFL asks a potential draftee if his mother is a prostitute. It is just a question right? No need to take it personally.

They take it God bless them but in their place I would break the man's nose who had those words come out if his mouth asking about my mom in an interview..

 

People would see all the coaches with big bandages on their noses around the combine and they would know which teams had been interviewing BadLandsMeanie.

 

About Fitz vs Tyrod I don't recall exactly but you should I think go back to board pages of that time and see what was said. I don't recall much difference at all in that people wanted him gone, thought he sucked, don't want him back, but left him alone as far as his personal qualities. The big difference is we fans were not divided over that decision and we have been divided over if Tyrod is good enough much more so. So I think fans have been fighting with each other much more over Tyrod, but I haven't seen much of anything directed at him as a person.

 

And for sure I haven't seen the stuff that was around over "Captain Checkdown" Trent Edwards. Comical YouTube videos and even a song mocking him that was played on the radio. So again I think you and posters in the same line should do more open minded careful research before inquiring and use specific objective examples.

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2018 by BadLandsMeanie

[BringBackOrton]

1 minute ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

 

Thanks for the reply. My problem with the racial questioning is that it is not a neutral question. And people act like it is. I think you did also.

 

So when someone says  like, Oh just asking, but I wonder if you fans are behaving in a racist way? Let's discuss it. 

 

That isn't a civil, neutral, reasonable decent thing to say to someone. Especially when you don't know them.

 

 That is what I was trying to illustrate to you when I responded with the the thoughts about you being an older male expat in Cambodia. Paraphrasing: "Oh, I wonder if you moved there to exploit human beings? I am saying for sure that is what you have done. Just that people fitting your profile do that. Can you explain why you are not there for that reason, because otherwise I don't understand why anyone would move to that nation to retire"

 

I don't think that was inoffensive to you, in the same way your posts were not inoffensive to me.

 

It is actually not much different at all than when the NFL asks a potential draftee if his mother is a prostitute. It is just a question right? No need to take it personally.

They take it God bless them but in their place I would break the man's nose who had those words come out if his mouth asking about my mom in an interview..

 

People would see all the coaches with big bandages on their noses around the combine and they would know which teams had been interviewing BadLandsMeanie.

 

About Fitz vs Tyrod I don't recall exactly but you should I think go back to board pages of that time and see what was said. I don't recall much difference at all in that people wanted him gone, thought he sucked, don't want him back, but left him alone as far as his personal qualities. The big difference is we fans were not divided over that decision and we have been divided over if Tyrod is good enough much more so. So I think fans have been fighting with each other much more over Tyrod, but I haven't seen much of anything directed at him as a person.

 

And for sure I haven't seen the stuff that was around over "Captain Checkdown" Trent Edwards. Comical YouTube videos and even a song mocking him that was played on the radio. So again I think you and posters in the same line should do more open minded careful research before inquiring and use specific objective examples.

 

 

 

This is the biggest deal.

 

Everyone thought Brohm sucked.  No one got heated about it because of that.  TT was much more polarizing.  So was EJ post-rookie season.  And JP.  Once they proved the sucked, it stopped.

[BadLandsMeanie]

18 minutes ago, Foxx said:

i didn't intend to be harsh, i hope i didn't come across that way. more of a friendly hey....

 

like i said previously, i am pretty sure i knew what you were going for and the topic is a hot button one for sure. so perhaps it was trepidation at broaching a touchy subject that is difficult at best to discuss. i think though had you inserted, "White people", it would have brought the post together more but potentially opened it up for a different kind of flaming. i think i know you though, in that you are not racist at all and this is a serious query on your part.

 

anyhoo, Happy Easter.

Thanks Foxx. I didn't take it as harsh. I won't say you sugar coated it but it just seemed like the on the level feedback that it was, to me.

 

And yes I was intending to try and avoid saying anything someone could seize upon to try and force the topic into a political one. So I did try to convey the idea rather than spell it out.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

15 hours ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

Hello everyone and welcome to Frankly Speaking. (.....)....Frankly Speaking is straight talk about The Buffalo Bills, the team that put the “We” in weenie.

 

This post is about an idea I have that I think is worth considering when we look at the ethnicity of NFL quarterbacks.

(....) I will begin by mentioning that almost nobody can do it. Almost nobody can be a top NFL QB. At most there are 16 above average quarterbacks out of every male in the US who would like to do that job. o what does that amount to? One in a million eligible males? One in two million? I don't know but it is a very, very small percentage.

 

I think the pool o' dudes may be smaller than you think.  Most guys who play football professionally, started playing it in HS.  (If you can think of any college QB for whom this is not true, LMK).  There are approximately 37,000 HS (public and private) in the US.  Let's overestimate and say each of them has 1 QB for each graduating class, over the (again overestimated) 20 year shelf life of a top professional QB.  That would be something like 750,000 dudes from whom 16 have made it to that top level.

 

Just to put some semi-real numbers on there.  I will also say that a quick scan of local top HS QB would indicate about 2/3 don't meet your height criteria.  So that would bring it down to perhaps 16 in 250,000 guys.  It's still a small enough number that a difference in the sports preference of a few multi-sport athletes in HS could influence the eventual numbers.

 

I think you may be onto something when you point out the relative simplicity of honing basketball skills vs football skills.  There's also the question of proper funding of HS football programs.  It's easier for any school district to come up with a B-ball court in decent shape and a dozen singlets and shorts, than it is to come up with all the pads, helmets etc in all needed sizes not to mention the top-notch stuff like different cleats.  And then of course, there's the general black-and-blue factor - a lot of kids do get injured playing basketball or wrestling or what-have-you, but probably overall fewer than football.

 

Edited April 1, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan

[KD in CA]

6 hours ago, CamboBill said:

 

I remember the frustration with Fitzpatrick here, but I don't recall anywhere near the vitriol compared to what Tyrod (a superior QB) endured here.

 

Of course, after 3 years of Fitz we didn't have a crowd of posters still saying "he's not being utilized correctly" or "they should build around Fitz's talents".

 

When one group insists on sticking to their position no matter the evidence, other people will naturally attempt to make the opposing case more forcefully.  That's just human nature.

[Mikie2times]

I think reasons exist why less NFL QB's are black. I know these reasons have nothing to do with the color of a persons skin, nor can they be explained with one theory. It's more likely a result of multiple factors.  

[Gugny]

I'll speak frankly about the topic.

 

The greatest QBs of all-time are all white.

 

Most QBs in the league are white.

 

So !@#$ing what?  It happens to be a position in football in which white men succeed more frequently than black men.

 

No one likes to talk about Cornerbacks like this.  You know why?  Because it doesn't !@#$ing matter.

 

SI actually did a story on it:  https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/04/26/white-cornerbacks-jason-sehorn-kevin-kaesviharn-donny-lisowski

 

"All 64 starting cornerbacks in the NFL are black. So are their backups. One hundred-sixty black cornerbacks, give or take. Not a single white one. It’s been this way for more than 10 years."

 

This is why it pissed me off so badly when Tyrod Taylor whipped out the race card (yes - he did - go look it up).  It was unnecessary and it was nothing but deflection.

 

Sometimes, white people do better at certain things; sometimes black people do better at certain things.

 

Big !@#$ing deal. 

[BadLandsMeanie]

8 hours ago, smuvtalker said:

  i took from his "post", that he feels that the only real reason there is a lack of black quarterbacks in the NFL is because the black athlete who is better physically equipped to play QB would simply rather play basketball.  Simple as that, am I correct OP?   

 

 2)the ability to QUICKLY go through your progressions once the ball is snapped, anticipating the pass rush, feeling it, knowing how to step up in the pocket, or slide AWAY from the direction of the oncoming rusher, ALL THE WHILE still keeping your eyes upfield, finding the open receiver(and that doesn't mean sitting all alone at a spot on the field, or streaking down the sideline with a two-step separation from the DB.  open meaning seeing where the receiver IS, "anticipating' where he's going to be, and throwing the ball to a spot that allows him to continue running his route and gain separation from the DB, and making a catch that also enables him to continue running without having to break his stride, jump, change his body direction thus ending the catch there.  Being able to throw a receiver open is an invaluable asset for a QB have to begin to be considered "great' or "elite". 

 

Those two traits alone are among the most difficult to possess, and while they can certainly be learned, feel like many of the great ones were blessed with these gifts early on, and were able to easily develop them to where they were just a part of their brain. 

 

I do feel like it's getting to a point where people are afraid to say anything negative about a black QB for fear of being called a racist.  Somethin's gotta give soon people. 

. 

 

 

 

 

Hey Smuv thanks for your thoughtful reply.

 

About your question. Yes that is what I was trying to say. Except that I wouldn't say it is the only reason. But I bet it is a big reason.

 

About your 2 point. I like basketball. So I understand it fairly well and sometimes the pace is slow. But when things start moving fast a point guard has to know where every player on the court is, where he is supposed to go, what the defense is likely to do, by heart and with no huddle except after a time out. He has to distribute the ball or keep it and it all happens extremely quickly. It is a mental moving picture so he can know where everyone is without having to look. 

 

To me there is a great deal of overlap between doing that and being a QB. 

 

On your third point, to me the discussion on the mater is restricted entirely to if we have a race based difference in ability, or if we have racism. Both I think are agendas from people who are stuck on race or have a philosophy to advance. And neither side is using their full intelligence or even trying to. And everybody else gets stuck in the middle and can't say anything for fear of becoming swept up and accused in one way or another.

 

When I thought about the circumstances in an open way just looking for information and ideas, and not having tunnel vision about football alone but the larger context, is when it occurred to me about where the overlap is between the NFL and other sports that could play a part in directing what talent is available to the NFL pool.

[Foxx]

2 minutes ago, Gugny said:

I'll speak frankly about the topic.

 

The greatest QBs of all-time are all white.

 

Most QBs in the league are white.

 

So !@#$ing what?  It happens to be a position in football in which white men succeed more frequently than black men.

 

No one likes to talk about Cornerbacks like this.  You know why?  Because it doesn't !@#$ing matter.

 

SI actually did a story on it:  https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/04/26/white-cornerbacks-jason-sehorn-kevin-kaesviharn-donny-lisowski

 

"All 64 starting cornerbacks in the NFL are black. So are their backups. One hundred-sixty black cornerbacks, give or take. Not a single white one. It’s been this way for more than 10 years."

 

This is why it pissed me off so badly when Tyrod Taylor whipped out the race card (yes - he did - go look it up).  It was unnecessary and it was nothing but deflection.

 

Sometimes, white people do better at certain things; sometimes black people do better at certain things.

 

Big !@#$ing deal. 

this then begs the question... why? therein lies the potential, big !@#$ing deal.

 

[BringBackOrton]

3 minutes ago, Foxx said:

this then begs the question... why? therein lies the potential, big !@#$ing deal.

 

It's a big deal there are more black CB's than white CB's? 

 

It's a big deal there are more black NBAers than white NBAers?

Edited April 1, 2018 by jmc12290

[Foxx]

4 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

It's a big deal there are more black CB's than white CB's? 

 

It's a big deal there are more black NBAers than white NBAers?

reading comprehension helps. why, was the 'potential' qualifier here.

Edited April 1, 2018 by Foxx

[BringBackOrton]

3 minutes ago, Foxx said:

reading comprehension helps. why, was the 'potential' qualifier here.

Why does the potential only play one way?

 

Do you think it's a potential big deal there are more black CB's than white CB's? 

 

Do you think it's a potential big deal there are more black NBAers than white NBAers?

[Foxx]

4 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

Why does the potential only play one way?

 

Do you think it's a potential big deal there are more black CB's than white CB's? 

 

Do you think it's a potential big deal there are more black NBAers than white NBAers?

:sigh:

 

i guess it depends upon the answer to the, 'why' question.

 

however to answer your questions directly... no and no.

[BringBackOrton]

1 minute ago, Foxx said:

:sigh:

 

i guess it depends upon the answer to the, 'why' question.

 

however to answer your questions directly... no and no.

Why?

[smuvtalker]

3 hours ago, Gugny said:

I'll speak frankly about the topic.

 

The greatest QBs of all-time are all white.

 

Most QBs in the league are white.

 

So !@#$ing what?  It happens to be a position in football in which white men succeed more frequently than black men.

 

No one likes to talk about Cornerbacks like this.  You know why?  Because it doesn't !@#$ing matter.

 

SI actually did a story on it:  https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/04/26/white-cornerbacks-jason-sehorn-kevin-kaesviharn-donny-lisowski

 

"All 64 starting cornerbacks in the NFL are black. So are their backups. One hundred-sixty black cornerbacks, give or take. Not a single white one. It’s been this way for more than 10 years."

 

This is why it pissed me off so badly when Tyrod Taylor whipped out the race card (yes - he did - go look it up).  It was unnecessary and it was nothing but deflection.

 

Sometimes, white people do better at certain things; sometimes black people do better at certain things.

 

Big !@#$ing deal. 

Holy crap thank you for saying what I was attempting to say last night in WAY less words lol.  it completely pissed me off when Tyrod pulled out the race card.  i tihnk the biggest reason it pissed me off is because it was, like you said, 100% unnecessary, and in my opinion none of the criticisms levied against him were far-fetched, overexaggerated or grossly inaccurate.  And it surprised the heck out of me because football talent aside, Tyrod to me is genuinely a good guy.  Humble, hard worker, good attitude, the type of personality you want on your team.  So when he said that, I was just like WOW. 

[stinky finger]

18 hours ago, Domdab99 said:

what did any of that have to do with ethnicity??

 

What, are you Polish?

[smuvtalker]

3 hours ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

Hey Smuv thanks for your thoughtful reply.

 

About your question. Yes that is what I was trying to say. Except that I wouldn't say it is the only reason. But I bet it is a big reason.

 

About your 2 point. I like basketball. So I understand it fairly well and sometimes the pace is slow. But when things start moving fast a point guard has to know where every player on the court is, where he is supposed to go, what the defense is likely to do, by heart and with no huddle except after a time out. He has to distribute the ball or keep it and it all happens extremely quickly. It is a mental moving picture so he can know where everyone is without having to look. 

 

To me there is a great deal of overlap between doing that and being a QB. 

 

On your third point, to me the discussion on the mater is restricted entirely to if we have a race based difference in ability, or if we have racism. Both I think are agendas from people who are stuck on race or have a philosophy to advance. And neither side is using their full intelligence or even trying to. And everybody else gets stuck in the middle and can't say anything for fear of becoming swept up and accused in one way or another.

 

When I thought about the circumstances in an open way just looking for information and ideas, and not having tunnel vision about football alone but the larger context, is when it occurred to me about where the overlap is between the NFL and other sports that could play a part in directing what talent is available to the NFL pool.

Great point about the comparison to the QB and the point guard.  Many similarities and I am completely in awe of some of the plays point guards make.  i could sit and watch Magic Johnson's highlight reels for hours and not see the same play twice.  iMO he is the greatest PG of all time, hands down.  And he was 6'9!  To me he is one of the players that I don't think there will ever be another comparable.  if i had to give my list of 'the ones', by position, meaning they have no equal, i would say PG-Magic, SG-Jordan, SF-Dr J PF-Barkley, C-Chamberlain.

 

i would love for race to not be such a hot button issue when discussing players, and i think that the reason it is is because we have just become so sensitive of a society now, people can't speak their minds anymore without offending someone.  Like Gugny said, hell if a black QB sucked, he sucked, and if a white sucks, he sucks.

[SoCal Deek]

What in the world is this thread about? In my experience it’s sheer mental laziness to boil things down to race. Done!

[xxxxxxxx]

7 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

Actually, ethnicity isn't that at all.  It's the fact of belonging to/ identifying with a social group that shares a common national or cultural tradition.  In the US it's primarily used to describe European Americans who have strong cultural ties to their European roots (ie, Italians, Greeks, Polish, etc) but is also frequently used to describe Latinos (Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, Brazilians, etc).   Asians, too, have distinct ethnic groups like Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, etc.  It's not usually associated with blacks in the US but there are a few distinct cultural groups among American blacks, most notably Haitians and Jamaicans. 

 

Ethnicity is not the same thing or even close to the same thing as "race" or "color" at all unless you go back to the archaic usage of "race" used in the late 19th century when  some racist writers popularized the idea of ethnic groups as "races" as in "the German race" or "the Anglo Saxon race".   Ethnicity is primarily based on culture.  Race is primarily based on physical characteristics, most notably skin color.

 

This is the correct definition. Race is the genetic sceintific term, think caucasion, and ethnicity is the social, cultural term, think Italian. The thing that confuses some people is that racism is not sceintific, its cultural. Observing physical differences between people has nothing to do with racism, but naively perscribing arbitrary values to those differences, even if differences are viewed as being positive, is what racism is all about.

Edited April 1, 2018 by MURPHD6

[stony]

3 hours ago, Gugny said:

I'll speak frankly about the topic.

 

The greatest QBs of all-time are all white.

 

Most QBs in the league are white.

 

So !@#$ing what?  It happens to be a position in football in which white men succeed more frequently than black men.

 

No one likes to talk about Cornerbacks like this.  You know why?  Because it doesn't !@#$ing matter.

 

SI actually did a story on it:  https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/04/26/white-cornerbacks-jason-sehorn-kevin-kaesviharn-donny-lisowski

 

"All 64 starting cornerbacks in the NFL are black. So are their backups. One hundred-sixty black cornerbacks, give or take. Not a single white one. It’s been this way for more than 10 years."

 

This is why it pissed me off so badly when Tyrod Taylor whipped out the race card (yes - he did - go look it up).  It was unnecessary and it was nothing but deflection.

 

Sometimes, white people do better at certain things; sometimes black people do better at certain things.

 

Big !@#$ing deal. 

White people do not dunk the basketball nearly as well as black people.  

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

19 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

What the hell?

 

Do you even know what the word "ethnicity" means?

 

...EXACTLY....are we talking about ethnicity of color?.......ethnicity of origin?....do EITHER may a damn bit of difference?....a thread borne out of pure ignorance IMO..........

[Meh.]

4 hours ago, Gugny said:

I'll speak frankly about the topic.

 

The greatest QBs of all-time are all white.

 

Most QBs in the league are white.

 

So !@#$ing what?  It happens to be a position in football in which white men succeed more frequently than black men.

 

No one likes to talk about Cornerbacks like this.  You know why?  Because it doesn't !@#$ing matter.

 

SI actually did a story on it:  https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/04/26/white-cornerbacks-jason-sehorn-kevin-kaesviharn-donny-lisowski

 

"All 64 starting cornerbacks in the NFL are black. So are their backups. One hundred-sixty black cornerbacks, give or take. Not a single white one. It’s been this way for more than 10 years."

 

This is why it pissed me off so badly when Tyrod Taylor whipped out the race card (yes - he did - go look it up).  It was unnecessary and it was nothing but deflection.

 

Sometimes, white people do better at certain things; sometimes black people do better at certain things.

 

Big !@#$ing deal. 

 

Good article/graphic about the cornerback position, quarterback, and center which, at least toward the end of the timeline they illustrate, is more skewed than QB.

https://theundefeated.com/features/the-nfls-racial-divide/

 

[ChasBB]

It's posts like this that keep me away from this board for days or weeks at a time.  What an idiotic and senseless post by the OP.

[xxxxxxxx]

4 hours ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

 

Thanks for the reply. My problem with the racial questioning is that it is not a neutral question. And people act like it is. I think you did also.

 

So when someone says  like, Oh just asking, but I wonder if you fans are behaving in a racist way? Let's discuss it. 

 

That isn't a civil, neutral, reasonable decent thing to say to someone. Especially when you don't know them.

 

 That is what I was trying to illustrate to you when I responded with the the thoughts about you being an older male expat in Cambodia. Paraphrasing: "Oh, I wonder if you moved there to exploit human beings? I am not saying for sure that is what you have done. Just that people fitting your profile do that. Can you explain why you are not there for that reason, because otherwise I don't understand why anyone would move to that nation to retire"

 

I don't think that was inoffensive to you, in the same way your posts were not inoffensive to me.

 

It is actually not much different at all than when the NFL asks a potential draftee if his mother is a prostitute. It is just a question right? No need to take it personally.

They take it God bless them but in their place I would break the man's nose who had those words come out if his mouth asking about my mom in an interview..

 

People would see all the coaches with big bandages on their noses around the combine and they would know which teams had been interviewing BadLandsMeanie.

 

About Fitz vs Tyrod I don't recall exactly but you should I think go back to board pages of that time and see what was said. I don't recall much difference at all in that people wanted him gone, thought he sucked, don't want him back, but left him alone as far as his personal qualities. The big difference is we fans were not divided over that decision and we have been divided over if Tyrod is good enough much more so. So I think fans have been fighting with each other much more over Tyrod, but I haven't seen much of anything directed at him as a person.

 

And for sure I haven't seen the stuff that was around over "Captain Checkdown" Trent Edwards. Comical YouTube videos and even a song mocking him that was played on the radio. So again I think you and posters in the same line should do more open minded careful research before inquiring and use specific objective examples.

 

 

 

Here's my problem with your thinking, which is well intentioned, but also reads like it is coming from an older, white gentleman (which may or may not be the case).Wanting people to do more open minded, careful research is a great thing to aspire to, so I would ask you to do the same. The definitions of race, racism, and ethnicity have expanded greatly in the last 20 years thanks to alot of impolite conversations - and it should be noted that people who are not white don't always consider racism to be an impolite topic to discuss as they deal with racism regularly.

 

And if you insist that a conversation about race needs to be courteous, your not going to learn much, at all, about the variety of things that you might do or say that makes people who aren't like you feel like crap. You got to be willing to admit mistakes, or at least apologise, and you got to be willing to be made just as uncomfortable as your behaviors can make others feel, whether you are aware of it or not.

 

If your not willing to do that, your not going to learn anything, and you should probably stop telling people that they need to learn more.

Edited April 1, 2018 by MURPHD6

[BadLandsMeanie]

6 minutes ago, ChasBB said:

It's posts like this that keep me away from this board for days or weeks at a time.  

Then my work is done. 

 

 

See you on draft day?