Jets Board- Allbright retweet - Apprenently R. Cimini source

[DCOrange]

43 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

I maintain that I believe that the competition for the No. 1 overall pick is between Darnold and Allen.

 

Yep. I think Cleveland, Jets, and Buffalo all have those two in their top 2 honestly.

[Doc]

8 minutes ago, Looper said:

So did Dan Marino - means nothing. Favre was worse. 

 

Completion percentages have gone up markedly since the days of Marino and even Favre.  It means a lot, actually.

 

Can you name a QB within the past decade who had a sub-60% completion percentage in college and was a successful NFL QB?

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, DCOrange said:

Yep. I think Cleveland, Jets, and Buffalo all have those two in their top 2 honestly.

 

Doesn't seem far-fetched to me as Beane says he and the scouts have prototypes for each position including QB. 

[McBean]

1 hour ago, zevo said:

It is amazing to me how everybody is so sure Allen is going to suck...granted I don’t want to trade up for him....but I have no clue regarding who will bust or be a stud 

He sucked in college and he’ll suck in the NFL.

[Seventeen]

28 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Completion percentages have gone up markedly since the days of Marino and even Favre.  It means a lot, actually.

 

Can you name a QB within the past decade who had a sub-60% completion percentage in college and was a successful NFL QB?

 

Why have completion % gone up ?  Shorter pass routes ? 

 

Sure Matt Ryan was 59.3 his senior year and just below 60 in total. Russell Wilson was way below 60 at NC State and above 70 @ Wisconsin. Did Wilson all of a sudden learn how to be more accurate or did he have better receivers and an offense more suited to his style ?  How about Matthew Stafford ? 

 

E.J. was about 66% at FSU - how did that work out ? You have to look at a lot more that just the % number. 

 

If teams used your 60% number, no one would be looking at Lamar Jackson either. 

Edited March 18, 2018 by Looper

[LEBills]

26 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Completion percentages have gone up markedly since the days of Marino and even Favre.  It means a lot, actually.

 

Can you name a QB within the past decade who had a sub-60% completion percentage in college and was a successful NFL QB?

 

Can you name me a good QB who is shorter than 6’1’’ and doesn’t run a 4.5?

 

Can you name me a good QB from USC in the last 15 years?

 

see, those types of arguments can be made many, many ways. And I love all the top 5 QBs.

[Doc]

Just now, Looper said:

Why have completion % gone up ?  Shorter pass routes ? 

 

Sure Matt Ryan was 59.3 his senior year and just below 60 in total. Russell Wilson was way below 60 at NC State and above 70 @ Wisconsin. Did Wilson all of a sudden learn how to be more accurate or did he have better receivers and an offense more suited to his style ?  How about Matthew Stafford ? 

 

E.J. was about 66% at FSU - how did that work out ? You have to look at a lot more that just the % number. 

 

Not sure why the completion percentages have gone up, except for relaxing the passing rules.  But they have gone up.

 

And sure you'll have outliers here and there.  But taking Allen that high and hoping (praying) he'll buck the trend is a recipe for disaster.

Just now, LEBills said:

Can you name me a good QB who is shorter than 6’1’’ and doesn’t run a 4.5?

 

Can you name me a good QB from USC in the last 15 years?

 

see, those types of arguments can be made many, many ways. And I love all the top 5 QBs.

 

I can name one of each.  One.

[RalphWilson'sNewWar]

1 minute ago, Looper said:

 

Why have completion % gone up ?  Shorter pass routes ? 

 

Sure Matt Ryan was 59.3 his senior year and just below 60 in total. Russell Wilson was way below 60 at NC State and above 70 @ Wisconsin. Did Wilson all of a sudden learn how to be more accurate or did he have better receivers and an offense more suited to his style ?  How about Matthew Stafford ? 

 

E.J. was about 66% at FSU - how did that work out ? You have to look at a lot more that just the % number. 

 

Only thing I will add to that is WGR brought on a guy who covered Allen and his defense was similar to yours.

In that Completion % on it's own is dangerous.  You do not know (unless you watch the tape) just what type of passes QBs are attempting.

He seemed to make the argument that Allen was attempting less than favorable "pad your Completion %" types of throws.

[T-Bomb]

40 minutes ago, Looper said:

 

So did Dan Marino - means nothing. Favre was worse. 

 

Those were very different times...  Apples to Oranges...

[LEBills]

5 minutes ago, Doc said:

I can name one of each.  One.

 

If you can, you are either thinking of terrible players or players drafted a good time ago (Brees)

[Seventeen]

4 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Not sure why the completion percentages have gone up, except for relaxing the passing rules.  But they have gone up.

 

And sure you'll have outliers here and there.  But taking Allen that high and hoping (praying) he'll buck the trend is a recipe for disaster.

 

I can name one of each.  One.

 

I don't know about that ... give him a couple years, put him in a pro offense with NFL athletes and we'll see. Someone will take him near the top. For every guy that had a completion % below 60, there is someone who was above 60 in college and failed in the pros. Lots of other factors involved.

[Doc]

8 minutes ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

Only thing I will add to that is WGR brought on a guy who covered Allen and his defense was similar to yours.

In that Completion % on it's own is dangerous.  You do not know (unless you watch the tape) just what type of passes QBs are attempting.

He seemed to make the argument that Allen was attempting less than favorable "pad your Completion %" types of throws.

 

2 minutes ago, LEBills said:

If you can, you are either thinking of terrible players or players drafted a good time ago (Brees)

 

2 minutes ago, Looper said:

I don't know about that ... give him a couple years, put him in a pro offense with NFL athletes and we'll see. Someone will take him near the top. For every guy that had a completion % below 60, there is someone who was above 60 in college and failed in the pros. Lots of other factors involved.

 

I'm not saying that a QB with a good completion percentage will be successful in the pros.  I'm saying that one with a poor one in college has a low chance of success in the NFL.  And for the Bills to trade a ton to move up to get Allen, they can't rely on hope that they'll be able to improve his accuracy and they don't have years to wait for it to happen.

[LEBills]

6 minutes ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

 

Only thing I will add to that is WGR brought on a guy who covered Allen and his defense was similar to yours.

In that Completion % on it's own is dangerous.  You do not know (unless you watch the tape) just what type of passes QBs are attempting.

He seemed to make the argument that Allen was attempting less than favorable "pad your Completion %" types of throws.

 

Thats because he was trying difficult throws. Not every time, but way more often than Oklahoma or Oklahoma State. 

 

every so often he would spray an EJ type of throw, but not all the time.

 

Coach Bohl has been great at finding late bloomer QBs and giving them a chance but pretty bad at developing them. both Wentz and Allen spent their time in college with raw footwork, and Wentz finally saw good improvement at his footwork and accuracy this year with a year of good NFL coaching.

 

Allen will need to continue showing improved footwork, and he did at the combine. If he can become consistent, you are going to see an amazing jump in his accuracy. 

[Seventeen]

1 minute ago, LEBills said:

 

Thats because he was trying difficult throws. Not every time, but way more often than Oklahoma or Oklahoma State. 

 

every so often he would spray an EJ type of throw, but not all the time.

 

Coach Bohl has been great at finding late bloomer QBs and giving them a chance but pretty bad at developing them. both Wentz and Allen spent their time in college with raw footwork, and Wentz finally saw good improvement at his footwork and accuracy this year with a year of good NFL coaching.

 

Allen will need to continue showing improved footwork, and he did at the combine. If he can become consistent, you are going to see an amazing jump in his accuracy. 

 

Truth ... and the main thing for me is I want a guy that wants to play here, embraces the city and it's blue collar attitude, and is a gamer. If Rosen doesn't want to play here, why the h*ll would we bother ? I personally think Allen will be gone by the 5th and the Giants will pick Rosen. JMO ...

[Ol Dirty B]

1 hour ago, Looper said:

 

So did Dan Marino - means nothing. Favre was worse. 

 

That was 30 years ago man. Come on.

24 minutes ago, Looper said:

 

I don't know about that ... give him a couple years, put him in a pro offense with NFL athletes and we'll see. Someone will take him near the top. For every guy that had a completion % below 60, there is someone who was above 60 in college and failed in the pros. Lots of other factors involved.

 

No there isn't. This logic is so convoluted. You have a lot more busts who had 60% completion because guys in the 50's aren't really even looked at as top prospects most of the time. For every guy who is 60 and above who didn't make it, their are way more in the 50s. Most of them probably didn't even get a chance to play consistently. I mean can I include all the QBs that were never even given a chance in the NFL who threw in 50% range? It disqualifies guys now days. Unless you're an athletic freak, in terms of being 6'5 and able to throw the ball with velocity a mile.

 

Your discounting success because that success earns a chance to fail at the next level. Then arguing on behalf of lesser performance. It's insane.

Edited March 18, 2018 by Ol Dirty B

[peterpan]

So many knocking Allen, yet no one questioning Darnold being annoited the #1 pick.  Go watch a full games highlights of each.  Darnold is the one who should be scrutinized. 

[terrytate]

7 hours ago, Looper said:

 

I want a Jim Kelly/John Elway/Roethlisberger mold franchise QB - tough, doesn't mind playing in sh*t weather, and a gamer.  I don't discount Allen as I think he's the closest to Kelly/Elway/Roethlisberger with a few more years of development. Blue collar town - I want a blue collar QB.

Please  name me 1 non blue collar qb.

[nucci]

9 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

I hate draft time.

99% of ppl will be wrong and after the draft, never spoken of again. 

So many armchair GM's banging the table for the QB they like when in reality 1-2 of the total qbs taken (Rds 1-7) might be very good, and the rest will be anywhere from backups to Fringe starters, to out of the league..

Thank God we have a competent GM that isn't going to throw away precious draft capital to move up ,when he could stay put and have the same chances at finding a very good QB .

 

Why, I thinks it's pretty exciting trying to guess and anticipate what the Bills will do

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

....solid support from the Jesters fans........LMAO.............

 

 

Yoshihisa Kuwabara

Jets fan since 1991. I'm no longer a fan as of today. I'm glad it's this stupid of a trade, for it's easier for me to move on. 3 second rounders to move up 3 spots...lol

Like · Reply · 84 · 19h

 

Matt Washburn ·

Senior Actuarial Analyst at Jackson National Life Insurance

Truly one of the worst organizations in sports. 2 division titles in the last 49 years. Wow!

Like · Reply · 52 · 19h

 

Yoshihisa Kuwabara

Wow so there are actual Jets fans who thinks this trade is good? Trading 4 premium draft picks to move up 3 spots to not even guarantee getting the guy they want?

Like · Reply · 28 · 19h

 

Ehsan Vessal ·

Network Engineer at Qualcomm

It's not like it hasn't been done before. Look at Chargers, they traded an extra No.1 and No.2 so they could move up one spot and select Ryan Leaf.

 

Ram Shoham

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why the Jets are always terrible. Horrendous decision-making.

Like · Reply · 213 · 20h

[BillsSbSoon]

7 hours ago, peterpan said:

So many knocking Allen, yet no one questioning Darnold being annoited the #1 pick.  Go watch a full games highlights of each.  Darnold is the one who should be scrutinized. 

I know i have been questioning it for months. I dont see it with him and cant believe hes still regarded as the top qb. 

[MrEpsYtown]

I know we love making fun of the Jets. I really like Rosen, but there is a good chance our board also looks like this. There is also a chance we or the Browns have Allen #1. Nobody knows at this point. 

[terrytate]

28 minutes ago, BillsSbSoon said:

I know i have been questioning it for months. I dont see it with him and cant believe hes still regarded as the top qb. 

I believe Rosen is this year's best qb, and i am not sure why he is not getting much hype.  I think he rubs people the wrong way  in the media but his coaches and teammates love him.

[BigdaddyinOrlando]

10 hours ago, MC Hamburg said:

Bean might think that Rosen might fall to us at 12...the character issue might scare off all other teams where Bean has a connection and is not afraid to take a chance on a strong minded QB that speaks his mind...most teams don't like this kind of QB Rookie...they want a yes man

True, but if Rosen does get past 6 and we are still at 12, I hope an am pretty sure they will jump up and do what is necessary to get him. 

[terrytate]

1 minute ago, BigdaddyinOrlando said:

True, but if Rosen does get past 6 and we are still at 12, I hope an am pretty sure they will jump up and do what is necessary to get him. 

THe qb's are going 1, 2,,3,4.  

[MrEpsYtown]

31 minutes ago, BillsSbSoon said:

I know i have been questioning it for months. I dont see it with him and cant believe hes still regarded as the top qb. 

 

I think the league likes Darnold a lot, but a lot of it is projection. I think they see him as a possible Luck type. I also think the league loves Allen way more than the fans. With these quarterbacks it's about projection down the line and big tiem potential. That's what you go for at teh top of teh draft. Not sure it's right, but that's the way it is. . 

2 minutes ago, BigdaddyinOrlando said:

True, but if Rosen does get past 6 and we are still at 12, I hope an am pretty sure they will jump up and do what is necessary to get him. 

 

I could see Rosen slipping out of the top 5. All it takes is the Giants and Broncos to pass on a quarterback. I would assume we would jump up if he got to 4. 

 

It happens. Last year the Browns, 49ers, and Jets, all with clear quarterback needs, passed on Watson and Mahomes. When they got to us, we traded out. 

 

There is  a possibility that Allen and Darnold go high, Rosen and Mayfield slip a bit. We are in a great spot if that is the case. 

[simpleman]

11 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

 

So many armchair GM's banging the table for the QB they like when in reality 1-2 of the total qbs taken (Rds 1-7) might be very good, and the rest will be anywhere from backups to Fringe starters, to out of the league..

Thank God we have a competent GM that isn't going to throw away precious draft capital to move up ,when he could stay put and have the same chances at finding a very good QB .

 

I agree completely with this premise. But I am not at all that sure that Beane has shown that he is in fact that competent of a GM. He has shown he is not so competent with all the holes he created in the team by getting rid of quality starters, while getting such low value in return for this year except lottery tickets with low odds (draft picks).  As you say, there is no consensus sure thing pick this year at QB.

 

 He also has saddled the team with a huge amount dead cap, while getting so little in return except for more lottery tickets with low odds. 31 and a half million dollars of dead cap that we can't spend on FA to fill the holes he created on our already weak roster.*  If that does not define a desperate gambler, rather than shrewd operator, what does. In fact a majority of his moves have been all about giving up a sure thing in hand for a bunch of low odds lottery tickets. Either he will be lucky at the table and look like a hero, or he will come home broke and unable to make the mortgage payment. That is not shrewd thinker and planner. It is the definition of a gambler. 

 

I hope he proves me wrong, and does not double down on those low odds tickets by giving them all away on just one big risky gamble to move up into the top 5 positions to draft a QB. We will be left with too few draft choices to fill our many holes, and as he has said, not enough cap space to fill those sorely need holes through FA with quality starters.

 

*

Marcell Dareus	$14,200,000
Cordy Glenn	$9,600,000
Tyrod Taylor	$7,640,000

Edited March 18, 2018 by simpleman

[BillsSbSoon]

49 minutes ago, terrytate said:

I believe Rosen is this year's best qb, and i am not sure why he is not getting much hype.  I think he rubs people the wrong way  in the media but his coaches and teammates love him.

Agreed. I watched ucla specifically last year to watch rosen. Its not close to me in terms of throwing the ball. He is by far the best qb in the class. All these supposed off field concerns are nonsense. The concussions are a bit of an issue, but it wouldnt stop me from taking him ahead of any other qb. 

46 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

I think the league likes Darnold a lot, but a lot of it is projection. I think they see him as a possible Luck type. I also think the league loves Allen way more than the fans. With these quarterbacks it's about projection down the line and big tiem potential. That's what you go for at teh top of teh draft. Not sure it's right, but that's the way it is. . 

 

I could see Rosen slipping out of the top 5. All it takes is the Giants and Broncos to pass on a quarterback. I would assume we would jump up if he got to 4. 

 

It happens. Last year the Browns, 49ers, and Jets, all with clear quarterback needs, passed on Watson and Mahomes. When they got to us, we traded out. 

 

There is  a possibility that Allen and Darnold go high, Rosen and Mayfield slip a bit. We are in a great spot if that is the case. 

How can he be projected ahead of rosen though? Theres nothing he does throwing the ball thats any better than rosen imo. His throwing motion is awful, not as good an arm either. Slightly more athletic yes, but darnold isnt going to be scrambling around a whole lot either. Rosen did not have a lot of top tier talent around him offensively, and he elevated that entire offense

Their defense was awful, and they had to score practically every time they had the ball just to stay in games

Edited March 18, 2018 by BillsSbSoon

[Buffalo_Stampede]

The Jets fold to fan and media pressure. They probably won't take Allen if there is a lot of negativity surrounding that pick.

[Doc]

9 hours ago, peterpan said:

So many knocking Allen, yet no one questioning Darnold being annoited the #1 pick.  Go watch a full games highlights of each.  Darnold is the one who should be scrutinized. 

 

I don't like Darnold either.  He didn't take a step forward last season and doesn't look like he'll ever be the guy everyone creamed their jeans over in 2016.

[Foxx]

11 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

I've said for months now that it wouldn't surprise me one bit if Josh Allen was the guy that Maccagnan really wanted, and who the Jets targeted in the draft. 

 

After all, Maccagnan is the guy who fell in love with Christian Hackenberg...

 

And Allen does somewhat remind me of Hackenberg in numerous ways -

 

Both are the prototypical sized QB you look for. Allen is 6'5", Hack is 6'4".

Both have big hands. Both have very strong arms. Both struggled with their accuracy at times while flashing elite potential at others. both have very similar stats their draft year - both threw 16 TDs and 6 int., had similar comp. %'s, y/a and QB ratings. And both are big time boom or bust prospects. If you hit on either, you're set. Their ceiling is very enticing... 

 

Hack was a big reach at the top of the 2nd and Allen (IMO) would be a reach at 3. It could happen! 

 

 

Ultimately, I think moving to #3 could have also altered their target a bit. They could have thought Allen was their best shot at 6, but now think they have a shot at the top 2 QBs. So I think it could depend on what happens at 1 and 2. I think they may have a hard time passing on Rosen if he's still on the board.

 

Although, just a thought on Rosen/Jets - is there any possible way Woody Johnson would nix a Rosen pick? With Johnson being good friends with Trump and appointed an ambassador by him? I highly doubt it would factor in in any way,  but hey it sure would be nice if they passed on him for such a dumb reason like that, right?!  

 

 

i don't know of anyone else who would compare Allen with Hackenberg favorably. Hackenburg was never thought to be the best like some do with Allen. 

[BillsFan17]

1 hour ago, terrytate said:

THe qb's are going 1, 2,,3,4.  

 Who is trading up to 4

[Seventeen]

4 hours ago, terrytate said:

Please  name me 1 non blue collar qb.

 

Rosen 

[Foxx]

16 minutes ago, TheTruthHurts said:

The Jets fold to fan and media pressure. They probably won't take Allen if there is a lot of negativity surrounding that pick.

Maccagnon looking to save his job.

[MrEpsYtown]

1 hour ago, BillsSbSoon said:

Agreed. I watched ucla specifically last year to watch rosen. Its not close to me in terms of throwing the ball. He is by far the best qb in the class. All these supposed off field concerns are nonsense. The concussions are a bit of an issue, but it wouldnt stop me from taking him ahead of any other qb. 

How can he be projected ahead of rosen though? Theres nothing he does throwing the ball thats any better than rosen imo. His throwing motion is awful, not as good an arm either. Slightly more athletic yes, but darnold isnt going to be scrambling around a whole lot either. Rosen did not have a lot of top tier talent around him offensively, and he elevated that entire offense

Their defense was awful, and they had to score practically every time they had the ball just to stay in games

 

I love Rosen and he is my number one guy. He is my favorite player in this draft and my favorite quarterback prospect since Luck. 

 

I guess some teams are turned off by Rosen or the concussions. I agree with you, but Allen has a higher ceiling with a much lower floor. Remember that Trubisky and Mahomes when before Watson last year because they had the bigger ceiling. NFL teams and scouts are often all over the place with these things. 

[Seventeen]

9 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

I love Rosen and he is my number one guy. He is my favorite player in this draft and my favorite quarterback prospect since Luck. 

 

I guess some teams are turned off by Rosen or the concussions. I agree with you, but Allen has a higher ceiling with a much lower floor. Remember that Trubisky and Mahomes when before Watson last year because they had the bigger ceiling. NFL teams and scouts are often all over the place with these things. 

 

Would you want Rosen still if you knew he might not want to play here ? 

[Nanker]

If we can stay put at 12 and get Baker Mayfield and keep the rest of our picks, I'd be happy. 

 

That's my opinion, and you're entitled to it.

[terrytate]

26 minutes ago, Looper said:

 

Rosen 

The best qb in the draft?   yeah i sure don't want that guy

27 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said:

 Who is trading up to 4

besides us you have denver, arizona and maybe a surprise team like Miami.  

[Seventeen]

Just now, terrytate said:

The best qb in the draft?   yeah i sure don't want that guy

 

That's your opinion, but I don't think the Browns share it. Along with the concussion issue, what makes you think he wants to play here ? 

[JohnC]

12 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

I maintain that I believe that the competition for the No. 1 overall pick is between Darnold and Allen.

 

Put your money on Darnold and give me a commission for the tip. 

[MrEpsYtown]

7 minutes ago, Looper said:

 

Would you want Rosen still if you knew he might not want to play here ? 

 

Yes, and I don't believe any bullcrap media assumptions made by Tedy Bruschi. He may have had 1 too many concussions. There is no actual proof that Rosen ever said anything about wanting to play anywhere. He said that it is sometimes advantageous to drop in the draft because you go to a better team, ala Aaaron Rodgers. This is obvious. He said nothing about Cleveland or Buffalo. As a person who worked in media, I can tell you it's media BS.