SoTier Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 2 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said: The Buffalo Bills currently have $31,336,937 million in 2018 cap space. Good for 16th in the NFL. Not terrible, but not great. Which of these moves could you see Beane end up doing? What are the chances that he does them all? Releasing QB Tyrod Taylor prior to the March signing bonus deadline would add $15.44 million to the 2018 cap (no-brainer) Releasing OG Richie Incognito would add $6.425 million to the 2018 cap. Releasing DE Jerry Hughes would add $4.6 million to the 2018 cap. Releasing RB Lesean McCoy would add $3.7 million to the 2018 cap. Releasing LB Lorenzo Alexander would add $2.85 million to the 2018 cap. Releasing OT Jordan Mills would add $1.95 million to the 2018 cap. Releasing DE Ryan Davis would add $1.225 million to the 2018 cap. Releasing OG Vlad Ducasse would add $1.02 million to the 2018 cap. Obviously Wood is a complicated situation, but I can't help but think there's a way to eliminate his contract from the cap. If the Bills were somehow able to pull that off, that would add an additional $8.625 million to the 2018 salary cap. If Beane somehow dumped all of these players (including managing to remove Wood's salary from the cap), that would add $45.835 million to the salary cap, more than doubling it for a grand total of $77.17 million - which would be 5th in the NFL (behind only 49ers, Browns, Colts and barely the Jets). In addition, they could also make the following moves after June 1st: Trading OT Cordy Glenn after June 1st would add $11.25 million to the 2018 cap Releasing TE Charles Clay would add $4.5 million to the 2018 cap Releasing FB Patrick Dimarco would add $1.55 million to the 2018 cap Releasing WR Andre Holmes would add $1.2 million to the 2018 cap That would add another $18.5 million to fill roster holes. The questions you have to ask are: Is Tyrod Taylor worth $15.44 million? I say no. Is Richie Incognito worth $6.425 million? That's a tougher one - I would say no because I think they can get better value than that at the guard position, but I could go either way. Is Jerry Hughes worth $4.6 million? I say yes. Is Shady worth $3.7 million? I say yes, but I don't feel too strongly about it. IMO we just saw Shady's last fully healthy season. Is Lorax worth $2.85 million? I'm on the fence with this one as I think his presence at defensive end could replace Shaq Lawson, in which case we could get a mid-round pick for Shaq. Is Jordan Mills worth $1.95 million? I might be in the minority on this one but I say yes. He exceeded expectations in 2018. Is Ryan Davis worth $1.225 million? I say definitely yes - adds very good DLine depth for relatively cheap. Is Vlad Ducasse worth $1.02 million? Probably depends on the new run scheme. Thoughts? 1 hour ago, Wayne Arnold said: I would think that if they release all/most of these veterans that they would want to use all of their draft picks to fill those spots. In case you don't realize it, the Bills don't have enough draft picks in the entire 2018 draft to fill all the holes they've created, and that's supposing that they were to hit on every pick, including Day 3 picks, which means they'd have to get replacements in FA, which likely would eat up all the "savings" from jettisoning all those players. Just replacing Taylor would likely cost $10 million for somebody no better plus a significant cap hit, so there'd actually be little savings. Of course, if your aim is for the Bills to actually tank in 2018, your "plan" is probably perfect. A team without a starting QB and an OL isn't likely to win many games. 1 hour ago, Wayne Arnold said: This is actually a really good point. The one thing breaking the streak gave Beane and McDermott is tremendous security. Not just with the Pegula's but the fans. Granted, that can dissipate quickly in professional sports but if McBeane can't get the QB they want and they look at this team and don't see a contender, they could wipe the slate clean without having to worry about being on the hot seat. It's actually a rare opportunity. Bull manure. What makes you think that making the playoffs won't make the Pegulas expect more and continuing improvement? Moreover, gutting the team would undermine McDermott's entire "trust the process" mantra with the remaining players. 1 hour ago, BillsVet said: Releasing Incognito is merely cutting off their nose to spite their face. There are others who can be released that would not hurt their 2018 season as much. If they don't win next season be prepared for people to talk about 2017 being a fluke, especially the way they got it. If they won less than 9 games next season and miss the playoffs, I doubt many people will care about McBeane's job status. These two know the bar has been set and this off-season needs to be a home run to build on 2017. Plenty of teams can backdoor their way into the playoffs. Real teams improve year over year. McBeane don't want to be the former. Exactly right. 1 hour ago, Wayne Arnold said: Funny thing about the OLine is that Mills and Ducasse quietly had solid seasons. Ducasse might not be a fit for Daboll's scheme but I don't see him as an automatic cut. PFF isn't the end-all/be-all, but here are their 2017 grades for our starting OLine... LT Dion Dawkins: 74.6 (excellent for a rookie - 33rd rated tackle, above-average) LG Richie Incognito: 80.5 (12th rated guard - good but I just wonder how much left he has in the tank) C Eric Wood: 68.0 (16th rated center - average) RG Vlad Ducasse: 75.5 (24th rated guard, above-average) RT Jordan Mills: 65.8 (43rd rated tackle, average) PFF's algorithm for grading OLers has logical flaws, primarily that they assume they can figure out the blocking assignments from film when they actually can't unless they know exactly what play was called and exactly how it was drawn up so they know the blocking assignments. What's incongruous about PFF's grades is that with these good grades from PFF the Bills OL should have played significantly better on a regular basis than it did. The Bills OL didn't play nearly as well as it had in 2016. 40 minutes ago, TheTruthHurts said: The only players worth anything are Incognito and McCoy. A OG and a RB, positions easily found in the draft. Glenn is the only player I would consider keeping if healthy. Famous last words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 I don't think that McB will be regular big spenders in free agency. I think they want to grow their own talent by getting players in the draft, undrafted rookies, guys off practice squads. Hyde's about as high as I expect them to go for free agents. I expect their free agent spending will be on role players. Except QB. They might spend big on a QB. So that makes me think that they don't need to blow up the roster except to the extent that they need cap room to buy a QB, if they go that route. You certainly don't want to unload serviceable players to create cap room that you don't really want to use. And that then makes me think that they're not unloading guys whose cap savings are under $4 million. Why move a guy who's useful to you if you don't need the room. Seems to me Taylor, Glenn and Clay are the guys who are at risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 1 hour ago, TheTruthHurts said: The only players worth anything are Incognito and McCoy. A OG and a RB, positions easily found in the draft. Glenn is the only player I would consider keeping if healthy. Yet these lousy players helped get the team to the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochesterRob Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 13 minutes ago, SoTier said: In case you don't realize it, the Bills don't have enough draft picks in the entire 2018 draft to fill all the holes they've created, and that's supposing that they were to hit on every pick, including Day 3 picks, which means they'd have to get replacements in FA, which likely would eat up all the "savings" from jettisoning all those players. Just replacing Taylor would likely cost $10 million for somebody no better plus a significant cap hit, so there'd actually be little savings. Of course, if your aim is for the Bills to actually tank in 2018, your "plan" is probably perfect. A team without a starting QB and an OL isn't likely to win many games. Bull manure. What makes you think that making the playoffs won't make the Pegulas expect more and continuing improvement? Moreover, gutting the team would undermine McDermott's entire "trust the process" mantra with the remaining players. Exactly right. PFF's algorithm for grading OLers has logical flaws, primarily that they assume they can figure out the blocking assignments from film when they actually can't unless they know exactly what play was called and exactly how it was drawn up so they know the blocking assignments. What's incongruous about PFF's grades is that with these good grades from PFF the Bills OL should have played significantly better on a regular basis than it did. The Bills OL didn't play nearly as well as it had in 2016. Famous last words. In regards to the Pegula's I don't think that they will be too impulsive as to pulling the plug on the current staff. I think they learned a lot when they watched Marrone go and Ryan come and go. Missing the playoffs this fall will not be a reason to pull the plug. I still think McD and Co get 4 years barring some self imposed disaster. Remember that the Pegula's will be around for a while and have to be aware that any good will in learning the ropes as NFL owners will fade if they replicate the 3 years or less formula we had back in the 00's as far as the next batch of potential hires go. At a minimum they must surely see the waste that comes with players jettisoned after a regime change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 I could see us trading some of these players and not outright releasing them.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 They weren't exactly shy at getting rid of players this last season, it wouldn't surprise me if there's a few cuts/trades this offseason that we won't initially 'like'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodneykm Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Absolutely NO chance he blows this up. They said last year that they weren't going to do that. They want to win now and in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Just now, Dorkington said: They weren't exactly shy at getting rid of players this last season, it wouldn't surprise me if there's a few cuts/trades this offseason that we won't initially 'like'. With 18 UFAs we already know there will be plenty of turnover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Yet these lousy players helped get the team to the playoffs. Oh boy. This is why the drought never meant much to me. Worst part about it was the fans talking about it. There were much better Bills teams than the 2017 Bills that didn't make the playoffs. I'm glad that hurdle was crossed for the fans, but the future of the team is not bright as of today. A lot of work to be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 (edited) I posted in another thread Quote The Buffalo Bills currently have $31,336,937 million in 2018 cap space. Good for 16th in the NFL. Not terrible, but not great. Release TT and Glenn and the Bills have $43.6 Mil in cap room. ~ $12.8m savings Restructure the following the Cap is $50.737 M. ~ $19.88m savings Released Tyrod Taylor(Saved: $9,440,000) Released Cordy Glenn(Saved: $3,350,000) Restructured Jerry Hughes (Saved: $2,717,500) Restructured Charles Clay (Saved: $1,792,500) Restructured LeSean McCoy (Saved: $2,580,000) Edited January 31, 2018 by ShadyBillsFan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 2 hours ago, dave mcbride said: Incognito is a very good player. Talent gets paid, as it should. Why would the Bills ever think of cutting him?? We are not the Browns. Quote of the day: Talent gets paid, as it should. Or another way of saying it is the relationship of performance to cost. If you keep that in balance then you are doing the right thing. You are astute, perspicacious and adroit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Dear god - Jordan Mills is the 6th biggest cap hit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cba fan Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 8 hours ago, dave mcbride said: Incognito is a very good player. Talent gets paid, as it should. Why would the Bills ever think of cutting him?? We are not the Browns. Because bean cuts/trades talented players by the handful in his less than 1 year on the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domdab99 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 16 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said: For a second I thought the fans were smart enough to realize that just because they won 9 games doesn't mean they weren't a 4-5 win roster but then I realized oh yeah they aren't. They could be a much-improved team in 2018 and still win less games. That's the way it goes. Fewer games. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasovon Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Now we hav the drought monkey off our backs i can totally see a tear down and rebuild and i would frankly love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollars 2 donuts Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 19 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said: The Buffalo Bills currently have $31,336,937 million in 2018 cap space. Good for 16th in the NFL. Not terrible, but not great. Which of these moves could you see Beane end up doing? What are the chances that he does them all? Releasing QB Tyrod Taylor prior to the March signing bonus deadline would add $15.44 million to the 2018 cap (no-brainer) Releasing OG Richie Incognito would add $6.425 million to the 2018 cap. Releasing DE Jerry Hughes would add $4.6 million to the 2018 cap. Releasing RB Lesean McCoy would add $3.7 million to the 2018 cap. Releasing LB Lorenzo Alexander would add $2.85 million to the 2018 cap. Releasing OT Jordan Mills would add $1.95 million to the 2018 cap. Releasing DE Ryan Davis would add $1.225 million to the 2018 cap. Releasing OG Vlad Ducasse would add $1.02 million to the 2018 cap. Obviously Wood is a complicated situation, but I can't help but think there's a way to eliminate his contract from the cap. If the Bills were somehow able to pull that off, that would add an additional $8.625 million to the 2018 salary cap. If Beane somehow dumped all of these players (including managing to remove Wood's salary from the cap), that would add $45.835 million to the salary cap, more than doubling it for a grand total of $77.17 million - which would be 5th in the NFL (behind only 49ers, Browns, Colts and barely the Jets). In addition, they could also make the following moves after June 1st: Trading OT Cordy Glenn after June 1st would add $11.25 million to the 2018 cap Releasing TE Charles Clay would add $4.5 million to the 2018 cap Releasing FB Patrick Dimarco would add $1.55 million to the 2018 cap Releasing WR Andre Holmes would add $1.2 million to the 2018 cap That would add another $18.5 million to fill roster holes. The questions you have to ask are: Is Tyrod Taylor worth $15.44 million? I say no. Is Richie Incognito worth $6.425 million? That's a tougher one - I would say no because I think they can get better value than that at the guard position, but I could go either way. Is Jerry Hughes worth $4.6 million? I say yes. Is Shady worth $3.7 million? I say yes, but I don't feel too strongly about it. IMO we just saw Shady's last fully healthy season. Is Lorax worth $2.85 million? I'm on the fence with this one as I think his presence at defensive end could replace Shaq Lawson, in which case we could get a mid-round pick for Shaq. Is Jordan Mills worth $1.95 million? I might be in the minority on this one but I say yes. He exceeded expectations in 2018. Is Ryan Davis worth $1.225 million? I say definitely yes - adds very good DLine depth for relatively cheap. Is Vlad Ducasse worth $1.02 million? Probably depends on the new run scheme. Thoughts? Great work, Jas, and I get your logic. i just don't think we have to go to that degree. Partially due to the fact that I believe we have (correct me if I'm wrong) 20 or so million dollars in dead for 2018 that we'll get in 2019. With the cap still looking like it is going to rise I believe this team is in good shape dollar wise for the next few years. This gives us a nice opportunity to keep salaries low for now as our young talent puts some years in, while still staying competitive with some of what we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 We may be backed into that corner at the moment. I don't see any way they get a top-tier QB in the draft this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 11 minutes ago, joesixpack said: We may be backed into that corner at the moment. I don't see any way they get a top-tier QB in the draft this year. There is always a way. You better love that QB though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaattMaann Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 19 hours ago, Gugny said: I'd like for the Bills to go from the oldest roster in the league to Top 5 youngest. we will without gutting the roster as OP put forth. old guys won't be re-signed unless they fit McD mold, and we have 8 draft picks, we will be getting younger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Sooner than you think, I bet Buffalo has MORE PICKS come draft day.......A LOT MORE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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