What's the price to move up and get our guy?

[Thrivefourfive]

10 hours ago, Dadonkadonk said:

Worked great for Washington getting RG3

10 hours ago, TheTruthHurts said:

It did actually, for a year anyways. They screwed him up.

 

Skins did all that, AND found their franchise (tag) QB later in the same draft. Unbelievable.

[BigBuff423]

Based on Daboll hiring, I am even more cemented in my opinion to stand pat and Draft Rudolph. I think Daboll’s Offense would be a great fit.

 

I would like to keep all picks AND use the Cap money - after trading / cutting Tyrod, Richie, Hughes, Mills, and yes....Shady. FA money will be needed for OLB, DE, DT, a couple WRs another TE in mold of O’Leary once Logan Thomas is allowed to go, and another CB or two. 

 

Sneaky cut: Wood

With Daboll, Glenn might very well remain with team given his natural ability toward a power run game and improved pass blocking.

[Wily Dog]

I trust McD & Beane to do the right thing. If there is a QB who they think is a franchise I think they will attempt to get him with as much as it takes. I like most of you have my favorite in the draft but I like most of you don't know beans.

Edited January 16, 2018 by Wily Dog

[djp14150]

10 hours ago, ddaryl said:

IMO you don't need the combine to determine if they are worth it. Game tape tells the tale.. Any team who draft a player based upon combine numbers could be drafting  a Maybin type of player.

 

as for the Bills if they have that much faith in a QB to move up you make the move because a franchise QB is THE game changer in this league

 

 

Nor true...

 

For QBS you have an equal measuring stick on who can make the throws needed that tape doesn't really measure.

 

As fir trading up for a qb...utterly dumb.

 

With the qbs coming out there isn't much difference and am some are slated to be picked 20-40.

 

Buffali can stand pat, or even trade down from 22 to 27 or 28 and still draft a qb and pick up a late 2nd or early 3rd.

 

The qb I'd sign as a free agent would be bridgewater

[Logic]

1 hour ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

Sneaky cut: Wood

 

Didn't they just give him an extension last season? And McDermott called him out by name as one of the guys he was happiest for when the drought ended. And he played every single snap this season and was a leader and productive player. He's on a reasonable contract. There's also no one behind him that's better than him. He's not going anywhere, I don't think.

[ddaryl]

53 minutes ago, djp14150 said:

 

 

Nor true...

 

For QBS you have an equal measuring stick on who can make the throws needed that tape doesn't really measure.

 

As fir trading up for a qb...utterly dumb.

 

With the qbs coming out there isn't much difference and am some are slated to be picked 20-40.

 

53 minutes ago, djp14150 said:

Buffali can stand pat, or even trade down from 22 to 27 or 28 and still draft a qb and pick up a late 2nd or early 3rd.

 

The qb I'd sign as a free agent would be bridgewater

 

 

If they believe that there is a franchise qb up top then its picks well spent...   Yes they can wait if they believe they'll get a good one or they can go the FA way.. There's multiple options....

Bridgewater is wildcard with limited experience. Lots of what ifs..He could be great or he could end up being a total bust post injury.. If Bills go any route ill assume they turned over every stone played the cards they were dealt and made the best decision...

 

In 10 months to a year Ill see how that is working out for us... 

 

Many teams have moved up and grabbed franchise qbs.  So its only bad if it fails.... 

[TigerJ]

3 hours ago, starrymessenger said:

I don't know whether the Bills will have the opportunity or the inclination to move up for a QB, but I do think there are a few who are worth burning draft capital to get. Foremost among them is Lamar Jackson. Athletically he is as much a generational talent as Barkely is. In that sense these two guys stand apart as unique in this draft. Jackson is Michael Vick. I know we have had our fill of "running QBs" but I think we would feel quite differently about it if Tyrod had arm talent. Jackson has that (though of course it needs some development and refinement i.e. he's not Josh Rosen in that regard). You think D. Watson looked good? Watch out for Lamar. Like Rosen he needs to fill out his frame, especially if he's going to make plays with his feet, but both Vick and Tyrod have shown that a "running QB" can actually be durable enuf. I expect Jackson to be a big draft riser over the next couple of months who will be coveted by GMs so I'm not expecting to get him. 

My risk/reward adjusted QB evaluation, which I admit is out of sync with where the thinking generally is at the moment is:

 

#1 Lamar Jackson

#2 Josh Rosen

#3 Baker Mayfield 

#4 Mason Rudolph

#5 Josh Allen

#6 Sam Darnold

 

I would be comfortable moving up for any of the top 3 in my list.

Michael Vick never got the hang of reading defenses.  On passing plays, if his primary receiver was covered, he couldn't go through his progressions, so he took off and ran.  I think Lamar Jackson may have the ability to read defenses a little better than Vick, so I think his ceiling passing the ball may be higher.  I wouldn't want him if it wasn't

[iinii]

Should have tanked!

[starrymessenger]

45 minutes ago, TigerJ said:

Michael Vick never got the hang of reading defenses.  On passing plays, if his primary receiver was covered, he couldn't go through his progressions, so he took off and ran.  I think Lamar Jackson may have the ability to read defenses a little better than Vick, so I think his ceiling passing the ball may be higher.  I wouldn't want him if it wasn't

I hear ya but bear in mind that when he first came out Vick had no one to throw the ball to except Algie Crumpler, a fat tight end. He actually had arm talent.

Jackson runs a complicated pro-style offence under Petrino at Louisville and Jackson is fully in control of it. He reads defences, he goes through his progressions. Tyrod was always a college QB. Jackson is much better QB and pro prospect. Unlike Vick he has excellent intangibles and can be the face of a franchise.

If I have understood OBD they are not interested in a QB who is scheme dependent and like Watson you would have to accommodate what he already does well while you worked on developing him. So maybe the Bills aren't interested, but I think they should be.

Bills are reputed to love Darnold. I would worry about that. He looks the part but he has terrible flaws that translate not to the NFL but to turnovers instead. Hes also extremely raw. Buyer beware. He may drop by the time the dust settles.

Edited January 16, 2018 by starrymessenger

[Virgil]

 

[buffalo2218]

My biggest question is whether or not the Bills make a move before the draft. Didn't the Eagles and Rams do their trading like

months before the draft?

[Fadingpain]

16 hours ago, ndirish1978 said:

I don't think it matters what we're willing to package if the top 2 teams aren't willing to do business cause they're locked in to drafting a QB. The real question for me though is whether or not the 3rd ranked QB in this class is worth the picks. Would you rather overpay to get one of the top 2? How many drafts produce THREE franchise QBs? I can think of 3 years that did '04, '83, '71, pretty much every other year you see one or two, or in the case of the year we drafted EJ: none. 

You are making the mistake of assuming perfect analysis/ranking by the teams. I.E., that the #1 rated QB is in fact the best QB in the draft, the #2 rated QB is actually the second best QB in the draft, etc. 

 

The 3 best QBs may well not be the top 3 ranked on draft day by most teams.

 

In the 2000 draft, the highest drafted QB was Chad Penington (18th pick of Rd 1) who was probably also the highest ranked, hence his drafting at that spot.  We know the Jets had him as the #1 QB on their board.  

 

Then came Giovanni Carmazzi with the 65th overall pick in Round 3, then Chris Redman with the 75th overall pick in Round 3.

 

There's your 3 highest rated QBs...

 

We still haven't gotten to Tom Brady who went in the 6th round, who I'm fairly sure was the best QB in that draft. 

 

In 1983, Kansas City took Todd Blackledge #7 overall, when Kelly, Marino, and even Ken O'Brien were all still available and yet to be drafted.

 

Dan Marino was the SIXTH drafted QB in that draft class!  He was the best of all of them, though you could argue Elway at #1 was better; I'd rather have Marino.

 

At worst, Marino was the SECOND best QB in the draft; he was drafted SIXTH QB!  

 

 

 

Edited January 16, 2018 by Fadingpain

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

18 hours ago, ProcessTheTrust said:

I understand the fears of trading away the farm to get our QB when we have so many other immediate needs. However, watching the Rams and Eagles this year, I can't help but remember how almost everyone laughed at them in 2016 when they paid the following to go get their QBs for the next decade or so:

 

Rams - Gave: 2016 1st, 2 2nds, 3rd, 2017 1st, 3rd

              Received: 2016 1st overall pick, 4th, 6th

 

Eagles - Gave: 2016 1st, 3rd, 4th, 2017 1st, 2018 2nd

               Received: 2016 2nd overall pick and a 2017 4th

 

I'm not saying we should make such a dramatic move just because it worked for both the Rams and Eagles so quickly. I'm asking - if Darnold and Rosen come out of the combine with projections of being "the guy" worthy, how much would you be willing to give away to go get them?

 

 

 

If Darnold indeed declares for this draft both the Giants/Browns would be fools not to select Darnold and Rosen even if given a kings ransom... They both need QB's and 2 franchise stud QB's are staring them in the face. I guess the Bills will have to see if Mayfield/Lamar Jackson/ Josh Allen or Mason Rudolph are franchise QB's because I don't see a scenario where we get the top 2. Some people are huge Mayfield fans, I'm not one of those people, I like his fiery attitude but he seems to be quite immature, not Manziel immature but to the point where it warrants some red flags.

Edited January 16, 2018 by BuffaloBillsGospel

[N.Y. Orangeman]

If reasonably certain, you give up whatever it takes to get your QB for the next 12-17years.  It may set you back a year, but that year is a lost/learning curve year for the QB anyway.

Edited January 16, 2018 by N.Y. Orangeman

[MrEpsYtown]

3 hours ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said:

 

If Darnold indeed declares for this draft both the Giants/Browns would be fools not to select Darnold and Rosen even if given a kings ransom... They both need QB's and 2 franchise stud QB's are staring them in the face. I guess the Bills will have to see if Mayfield/Lamar Jackson/ Josh Allen or Mason Rudolph are franchise QB's because I don't see a scenario where we get the top 2. Some people are huge Mayfield fans, I'm not one of those people, I like his fiery attitude but he seems to be quite immature, not Manziel immature but to the point where it warrants some red flags.

Darnold did declare for the draft. In my mind it depends how they feel about Davis Webb and Kizer. If you are the Giants and could drop down and draft two stud o-linemen, you could be in the Super Bowl next year. If the Browns like Kizer as their developmental guy they can sign a Cousins or McCarron and trade down. If they traded with us they would have 4, 21, 22 and more. I'm not saying it's going to happen but it's not out of the realm of possibility entirely. 

[H2o]

The only guy I move up for is Rosen. The only way that happens is if the Browns make a Browns-esgue decision and take Allen #1 overall. The Giants then take Darnold. Indy selects Saquon Barkley @ #3 then we might be able to work something for the #4 pick. I still wouldn't sell the farm to move up because we have too many holes. Both of our 1st Round picks this year, a 2nd, and maybe the 5th from Jax. Nothing from 19 though. If they don't take it then oh well. Stay put and draft more young talent. 

[26CornerBlitz]

3 hours ago, H2o said:

The only guy I move up for is Rosen. The only way that happens is if the Browns make a Browns-esgue decision and take Allen #1 overall. The Giants then take Darnold. Indy selects Saquon Barkley @ #3 then we might be able to work something for the #4 pick. I still wouldn't sell the farm to move up because we have too many holes. Both of our 1st Round picks this year, a 2nd, and maybe the 5th from Jax. Nothing from 19 though. If they don't take it then oh well. Stay put and draft more young talent. 

 

With Dorsey and Wolf on board, I wouldn't count on this scenario coming to fruition.

[Dr. Who]

16 hours ago, Paulus said:

Well, then I wouldn't move to 4, if the Browns wanted more. You're right, it most likely would be the #3 qb in the draft. Nice year to draft a QB high, though. 

 

The only thing I, PERSONALLY, might do is pay a lot more to trade for Darnold @ #1 overall. 

 

What would it take to move Cleveland off Darnold, and have them take, a different QB at 4?

 

I guess, it'd take at least 3 #1's and at least 1 #2. I would do that for Darnold, though.

I am guessing it takes the 3 #1's, a #2, and then at least another high pick and/or player combo.  It will be very expensive.  I like Darnold, but I don't think he's can't miss.  Not sure anyone is.  My top three are Rosen, Darnold, Mayfield in that order.  Allen has off-the-charts arm talent, but lots of concerns.  I would trade up and pay a significant price for Rosen or Darnold.  I would make a more modest trade up to secure Mayfield.  Talent is probably there this year, but there are a ton of teams wanting qb.  I think we should have taken Watson or Mahomes last year, though there's no denying Tre White is a very nice player.

[Yav]

This is simple. You give up nothing and you get Cousins. 

Did anyone hear Romo during the game? If the Bills had a QB this season they would be a very good and dangerous team. 

You have 2 interior linemen getting long in the tooth and you have Shady up there in age. The time is now and Cousins can come in and get the job done. 

 

Keep you draft picks and bring in DL, LB, OL help. You can get a LB and an RT in the first round without loosing picks. The second can bring you a DT. 

The key is going to be getting Cousins and keeping Gains. This team isn't that far off from where they can compete.

 

I personally don't see the value in trading away draft picks to go after a QB that may or may not pan out when you know you can get a guy that already has experience and can win in the NFL. And before the ANTI-Cousins people start, look at his numbers this year and then look at who he had a WR, he actually had a very good year. 

[ProcessTheTrust]

4 minutes ago, Yav said:

This is simple. You give up nothing and you get Cousins. 

Did anyone hear Romo during the game? If the Bills had a QB this season they would be a very good and dangerous team. 

You have 2 interior linemen getting long in the tooth and you have Shady up there in age. The time is now and Cousins can come in and get the job done. 

 

Keep you draft picks and bring in DL, LB, OL help. You can get a LB and an RT in the first round without loosing picks. The second can bring you a DT. 

The key is going to be getting Cousins and keeping Gains. This team isn't that far off from where they can compete.

 

I personally don't see the value in trading away draft picks to go after a QB that may or may not pan out when you know you can get a guy that already has experience and can win in the NFL. And before the ANTI-Cousins people start, look at his numbers this year and then look at who he had a WR, he actually had a very good year. 

I like Cousins. I can't say I'm on board with paying him at the level he might demand but I know if we do, I'll easily find it justifiable. Give him a 5 year deal, we've got our guy who will just be turning 30 as the season starts, arguably just hitting his prime.

Edited January 16, 2018 by ProcessTheTrust