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Comprehensive "Tyrod Taylor is Bad" Thread (VERY Comprehensive)

BigDingus

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BigDingus
BigDingus

I'm just going to put everything I can out there and go all-in on this. I'm sure I'll get the "you've got too much time on your hands" comments, or "you're a hater" responses, but this is just info th

twoandfourteen
twoandfourteen
baskingridgebillsfan
baskingridgebillsfan

i don't understand how anyone can support him at this point 

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transplantbillsfan All Pro

transplantbillsfan

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 12/27/2017 at 6:22 PM, twoandfourteen said:

 

This is just not true. At least, statistically speaking. 

 

Just looking at the three years Taylor has been a starter -- McCown has put up better passing numbers, and that was while playing in the with three-ring circuses known as the Cleveland Browns & NY Jets. 

 

This year, JMcC has 18 TD passes in 13 games. How about Tyrod? 13 TDs in 14 games. Must be all those weapons McCown has in NY, right? 

 

Passing yards? JMcC's lowest yds/gm is still better than Tyrod's best. 

 

 

 

Oh, and McCown has more rushing TDs this year. 

 

 

Seriously? An apples to apples comparison with a guy who started just over half the games that Taylor has started in the last three years?

 

First of all, both of these guys have about 237-238 yards per game total they're putting up. But

 

yards

 

are

 

NOT

 

the 

 

most

 

important 

 

STAT!!!

 

3 years for McCown, 41 TDs, 33 turnovers.

 

3 years for Taylor, 64 TDs, 21 turnovers.

 

 

'nuff said :flirt:

 

 

 

buuuuut... there is also the fact that in significantly fewer games than Taylor over the last 3 years, McCown has lost 527 yards on sacks to Taylor's 653 yards.

 

 

annnnnnd... in the last 3 years Taylor has more 4th quarter comebacks and game winning drives than McCown.

 

alsoooooo... since I know of a poster or two who view ANY/A as the most important stat, Taylor has a higher average there than McCown over the last 3 years, too.

 

 

McCown is not better than Taylor :doh:

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MJS Hall of Famer

MJS

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Pretty clear that Tyrod cannot be the QB to build around. We can't continue to be bottom 3 in passing and expect to contend.

 

But, he is the perfect bridge QB until we find our franchise guy. He can make just enough plays to help win a game, and takes care of the football, and also is elusive and can make plays with his feet.

 

I wouldn't even be against him starting next year if the Bills get a guy to sit and learn and show that they are legitimately going all in to address the position.

 

I can't imagine McDermott and Beane won't be trying. They seem like smart enough guys and clearly they have shown that they know Tyrod's numerous limitations. This is why they started Peterman for that game. Their hands are tied on offense because of how limited Tyrod is in the passing game.

 

I'd be happy with FA Cousins or any 1st round QB.

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twoandfourteen RFA

twoandfourteen

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6 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

McCown is not better than Taylor :doh:

 

But look at what Josh McCown did with horrible defenses and no weapons!!!!!!!!!! He played for the Cleveland Browns & The NY Jets!!!! They are jokes!!!!

 

If the Jets just gave him a good defense and some real WRs he'd be great!!!!!!!!!

 

 

Do you see what I've been trying to get through to you here? 

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billsredneck1 Veteran

billsredneck1

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 12/28/2017 at 12:27 AM, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

 

You're being obtuse. 

 

You say that Tyrod was responsible for 54% of offensive snaps? Unimpressive. Most team pass more than 54% of all snaps. You say that Tyrod was responsible for 61% of the Bills total yards but most teams pass games alone are responsible for a higher percentage of their total yardage than that. Your stats are wildly unremarkable, and in fact below average even when comparing only the pass yardage and snaps of other teams against Tyrod's passes and runs.

 

Tyrod got 65% of the offensive TDs? I compared Tyrod's passing and running QBs totalled, with only the passing TDs of other teams. Still well below average in the resulting rankings for Tyrod.

 

I've spelled it out - clearly - twice now and this is the third time. If you're interested in a research project of some sort, by all means go and do it, but don't expect me to do it for you.

 

Again, I threw all of Tyrod's pass and run stats against just the pass stats of the other QBs. And it still came out well below average. 

 

 

 

 

Exactly.

 

It matters because the numbers it gives are high enough that at first glance it seems impressive for Tyrod.

 

Transplant can practically hear people saying stuff like, "58% of something or other? And 65% of some other not real clear thing. Those numbers are over 50%, so they seem high!! And Tyrod's name is there, near high numbers. Hmmm."

 

And for Transplant, that imagined response is enough.

transplant will come out eventually and say tyrod was handcuffed by the coaches. he spent 3 years saying that and banging the drum for ej.:rolleyes:

 

 

  may be a bit off topic but, as much as i want dennison gone, i can picture the following happening.

in the offseason mcd says keeping rico equals needed continuity. he (they) believe enough in what they see in nate to go forward with him and rudolph. however they will be looking for a veteran presence.

i'd say they get rudolph with one of the first picks and are happy to keep and use the rest to bolster the roster with young talent.

...and quite honestly, i really wouldn't mind that. over the course of the season with this defense, i think nate could have gotten better than the typical tyrod results. jmo

 

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Dr. K Veteran

Dr. K

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Posted
On 12/27/2017 at 4:49 PM, Lfod said:

I wouldn't worry so much about Tyrod anymore guys. Benching him at the time they did is all you need to know. People can say whatever about benching him but it doesn't take the weight from it happening.

 

They thought Nate Peterman could be a better answer in his rookie year. It does not matter how it turned out with Nate I don't think that suddenly changed thier view on Tyrod.

 

Then add in that he took a pay cut to stay here I would guess this was his year to prove his worth. The benching proves he didn't prove it, at least to the guys in charge. 

 

I don't think it matters if you love him or hate him to understand it. You don't take a pay cut then get benched in the middle of a playoff hunt because your good enough in the eyes of the HC who benched you.

 

I think if Nate didn't have a disaster of a start, Tyrod wouldn't even be starting. This isn't a random feeling. The HC benched Tyrod because he wanted Nate to do better and take the job. I can't think of another reason to do it.

 

Tyrod was interesting. I can see why he was pulled from back up duty to start in Buffalo. You just never know until you do know. The same goes for Nate Peterman or anyone. Tyrod has flashes and it was intriguing. I would take interest in a guy that can flash excellence. 

 

At some point you have to see it for what it was. A guy who can definitely have moments of greatness but not frequently enough to depend on. 

 

So like anyone I was interested to see if those flashes transformed into frequent moments of greatness. Some team next year may have that some wonder about him and take a shot on him. I wish him the best of luck. 

 

So no, Tyrod doesn't just suck like people want to lazily lable him. They do have solid points when pointing out some of his negatives. I can see why people like Tyrod and it's the same reasons I did. That potential to flash. The potential to become great. 

 

It's been a few years and I think the experiment is over. I have no crystal ball but looking at the big picture I can see the Bills are moving on next year. I think he's had enough time to become what he was gonna become. This is how it turned out. Might be good enough to limp into the playoffs. Not good enough.

 

You have to score points against the Patriots. Just good enough will never take the division. The team needs some real answers to beating the Patriots and that should be the biggest concern.

 

This says it all, I think.

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Big Gun Veteran

Big Gun

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57 minutes ago, billsredneck1 said:

transplant will come out eventually and say tyrod was handcuffed by the coaches. he spent 3 years saying that and banging the drum for ej.:rolleyes:

 

 

  may be a bit off topic but, as much as i want dennison gone, i can picture the following happening.

in the offseason mcd says keeping rico equals needed continuity. he (they) believe enough in what they see in nate to go forward with him and rudolph. however they will be looking for a veteran presence.

i'd say they get rudolph with one of the first picks and are happy to keep and use the rest to bolster the roster with young talent.

...and quite honestly, i really wouldn't mind that. over the course of the season with this defense, i think nate could have gotten better than the typical tyrod results. jmo

 

Yup

 

Coaches aren't dumb. They watch enough tape to realize that the QB is a real problem and the gameplan and game day calls are really hampered by the bad QB play. 

 

McD, Beane, TPegs, etc all know this and the track record of the QB the past couple of years enough to not blame the OC for the offensive troubles.  

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CircleTheWagons99 Veteran

CircleTheWagons99

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8 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

 

Taylor can back up Mccown after we cut him. 

 

34-7 jets with 5 mins left.   ☠️☠️????

But you are not bringing up garbage time, TT's time to SHINE is garbage time.  Just ask all the TT faithful!

22 minutes ago, Maine-iac said:

Haha ....... this.

 

https://sports.theonion.com/i-m-just-here-to-win-football-games-says-22-year-old-1819579929

oh, the onion.....now it makes sense.......

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Bills Pimpin' RFA

Bills Pimpin'

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I thought they did try.

Yep, the rookie QB should only get 1/2 of a football game to prove himself... But then again, maybe he should get another chance in a historic blizzard game, where he played well, had his team up by a TD in the 3rd quarter before getting hurt. 

I don't think the book has been written on Peterman, it certanly has on Taylor.

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K-9 Hall of Famer

K-9

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3 hours ago, PeterGriffin said:

... Coaches aren't dumb. They watch enough tape to realize that the QB is a real problem and the gameplan and game day calls are really hampered by the bad QB play. ...

Great point about coaches, specifically DCs. Indeed, they don’t gameplan around what it is you DO so much as what they observe you CAN’T do.

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billsredneck1 Veteran

billsredneck1

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6 minutes ago, PeterGriffin said:

yup he had a good game, every pass was spot on. 

 

 

 

 

probably should have been 8/10. i remember one ball bouncing off clay's chest.....

18 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

5/10 for 57 yards and a concussion is a good outing?

 

I guess compared to 5 INTs in a half it is.

when was the last time(or for that matter the only time), this offense ran a 2 minute 79yd drive with a td?.......

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BuffaloHokie13

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, billsredneck1 said:

when was the last time(or for that matter the only time), this offense ran a 2 minute 79yd drive with a td?.......

Sunday December 17, 2017 against the Miami Dolphins. To end the the first half, the Buffalo offense had an 8 play, 80 yard drive ending in a TD. We got the ball with 2:23 left on the clock and the drive took 1 minute and 50 seconds.

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Dadonkadonk RFA

Dadonkadonk

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55 minutes ago, billsredneck1 said:

probably should have been 8/10. i remember one ball bouncing off clay's chest.....

when was the last time(or for that matter the only time), this offense ran a 2 minute 79yd drive with a td?.......

Happened the last two weeks. One was taken away.

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paulbills

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1 hour ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

5/10 for 57 yards and a concussion is a good outing?

5/10 for 57 yards and a TD with every incompletion being the fault of the receiver because there was heavy snow all game. Considering the context, yeah I'd say that's a pretty good outing before exiting with an unfortunate concussion. 

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BuffaloHokie13

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1 minute ago, paulbills said:

It's pretty hilarious that a rookie QB gets more throwing yards in a 2 minute drive than a starting 7 year veteran QB does in 3 quarters of play, wonder if that's a good outing? Hell, not even once, almost twice! :lol:

It's pretty hilarious that people want to say he's had a good outing when he hasn't. Ever. Doesn't mean he can't, but he certainly hasn't at this point. Nice of you to bring up Tyrod, who has nothing to do with Peterman's performances though. Can we wait for Peterman to have a triple digit passing yard performance, or a game with more than 1 TD even before comparing him to anyone?

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paulbills Practice Squad

paulbills

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4 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Can we wait for Peterman to have a triple digit passing yard performance, or a game with more than 1 TD even before comparing him to anyone?

Can we wait for Peterman to have a full start before we start crapping on him? Goes both ways.

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Big Gun Veteran

Big Gun

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7 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

It's pretty hilarious that people want to say he's had a good outing when he hasn't. Ever. Doesn't mean he can't, but he certainly hasn't at this point. Nice of you to bring up Tyrod, who has nothing to do with Peterman's performances though. Can we wait for Peterman to have a triple digit passing yard performance, or a game with more than 1 TD even before comparing him to anyone?

ok, critique his colts outing.

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BuffaloHokie13 All Pro

BuffaloHokie13

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Posted
Just now, PeterGriffin said:

ok, critique his colts outing.

My main critique is that he dove like an idiot and got himself concussed. He threw 10 passes, mostly because of the weather (I think Tyrod threw like 25 in the entire Pittsburgh game), and our only successful drive that people seem to be toting was set up by back to back 20+ yard runs by McCoy (just like our OT score). Unlike some of your fond memories, his 5 incompletions were not all on the WRs, but 2 were. At the end of the day you simply cannot say he had a good outing and point to a 50% completion 57 yard passing day. You do realize that just because something isn't good it doesn't mean it's awful though, right? I have a hard time believing that anyone with football knowledge watched the Colts game and came away saying "Oh man, Peterman had a good game today!".

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BananaB Veteran

BananaB

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I think the fact we have 3 different coordinators and numerous WRs who have moved on and have had success elsewhere says it all about Taylor’s passing.... Fact is, on this board all them were used as an excuse for Taylor at some point. Taylor has been the only constant in this passing game 3 years in a row. Not turning the ball over seems to be his biggest strength, but that comes with leaving a lot of plays on the field. We just need more out of the passing game and that’s something Taylor can’t give us. He has his games, his half’s, his quarters but is way too easy to shut down with simple adjustments.... Like forcing him to stand in the pocket and play QB. 

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BADOLBILZ Hall of Famer

BADOLBILZ

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5 hours ago, K-9 said:

Great point about coaches, specifically DCs. Indeed, they don’t gameplan around what it is you DO so much as what they observe you CAN’T do.

 

 

Teams adapted entirely to Tyrod with film study in the offseason after 2015..............but opposing defenses just didn't have the courage to leave the deep ball open in 2016 like they have had this year.........and that courage is courtesy of the lack of deep threat presence from the x and z receivers the Bills have trotted out to play outside the hashes.

 

If you can stretch the field vertically and at the same time limit the aggressiveness of the pass rush you have a very tough offense to defend.   You can't take both away.......you are left vulnerable somewhere defensively.

 

The Bills had that.........they traded it in for a dink-and-dunk WCO type approach.

 

As NFL Films/NFL matchups Greg Cosell put it on WGR today, the Bills are an "execution based" offense now and while he can do that at times(see the 16 play drive to start the Pats game)  that's not really Tyrod's game.

 

A Taylor offense needs to be about big plays to be really good(like in 2015 and 2016 when they lead the NFL in them).    

 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

If he didn't set a record for INTs in a half he would have a full game under his belt and probably would still be playing...

 

 

Let's not shortchange Peterman.

 

Yes, he threw 5 interceptions.

 

But he also fumbled once........and then threw what should have been a pick-6 on the one drive that they punted.    

 

There will probably NEVER be a performance that bad by an NFL QB ever again...........that is the new GOLD STANDARD for a badly QB'd game in the NFL.

 

 

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billsredneck1 Veteran

billsredneck1

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Posted
17 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Seriously? An apples to apples comparison with a guy who started just over half the games that Taylor has started in the last three years?

 

First of all, both of these guys have about 237-238 yards per game total they're putting up. But

 

yards

 

are

 

NOT

 

the 

 

most

 

important 

 

STAT!!!

 

3 years for McCown, 41 TDs, 33 turnovers.

 

3 years for Taylor, 64 TDs, 21 turnovers.

 

 

'nuff said :flirt:

 

 

 

buuuuut... there is also the fact that in significantly fewer games than Taylor over the last 3 years, McCown has lost 527 yards on sacks to Taylor's 653 yards.

 

 

annnnnnd... in the last 3 years Taylor has more 4th quarter comebacks and game winning drives than McCown.

 

alsoooooo... since I know of a poster or two who view ANY/A as the most important stat, Taylor has a higher average there than McCown over the last 3 years, too.

 

 

McCown is not better than Taylor :doh:

ummmm....ok;)

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twoandfourteen RFA

twoandfourteen

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1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Teams adapted entirely to Tyrod with film study in the offseason after 2015..............but opposing defenses just didn't have the courage to leave the deep ball open in 2016 like they have had this year.........and that courage is courtesy of the lack of deep threat presence from the x and z receivers the Bills have trotted out to play outside the hashes.

 

If you can stretch the field vertically and at the same time limit the aggressiveness of the pass rush you have a very tough offense to defend.   You can't take both away.......you are left vulnerable somewhere defensively.

 

The Bills had that.........they traded it in for a dink-and-dunk WCO type approach.

 

As NFL Films/NFL matchups Greg Cosell put it on WGR today, the Bills are an "execution based" offense now and while he can do that at times(see the 16 play drive to start the Pats game)  that's not really Tyrod's game.

 

A Taylor offense needs to be about big plays to be really good(like in 2015 and 2016 when they lead the NFL in them).    

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let's not shortchange Peterman.

 

Yes, he threw 5 interceptions.

 

But he also fumbled once........and then threw what should have been a pick-6 on the one drive that they punted.    

 

There will probably NEVER be a performance that bad by an NFL QB ever again...........that is the new GOLD STANDARD for a badly QB'd game in the NFL.

 

 

 

4 hours ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

My main critique is that he dove like an idiot and got himself concussed. He threw 10 passes, mostly because of the weather (I think Tyrod threw like 25 in the entire Pittsburgh game), and our only successful drive that people seem to be toting was set up by back to back 20+ yard runs by McCoy (just like our OT score). Unlike some of your fond memories, his 5 incompletions were not all on the WRs, but 2 were. At the end of the day you simply cannot say he had a good outing and point to a 50% completion 57 yard passing day. You do realize that just because something isn't good it doesn't mean it's awful though, right? I have a hard time believing that anyone with football knowledge watched the Colts game and came away saying "Oh man, Peterman had a good game today!".

 

There are at least 26-28 QBs that are better than Tyrod Taylor currently in the NFL, not to mention another 5 or 6 (including Peterman) that have higher ceilings and the potential to pass him in the next year. 

 

Doesn't it tell you something when you spend your time defending Taylor against guys like Josh McCown or a rookie drafted in the 5th round? Doesn't that tell you about the class of player that TT belongs in? No one ever talks about "Who's better? Taylor or Jimmy Garappolo?" or "Who's better? Taylor or Derek Carr?" or "Taylor or DeShaun Watson?" 

 

The reason is that you can't legitimately make a case for Taylor against any of those guys -- never mind the real elite guys Iike Brady, Brees, Ben, etc. 

 

As a QB, TT is defined by the things he doesn't do: he doesn't throw INTs, he doesn't read defenses, he doesn't score very many TDs. 

 

I'll gladly accept 10 more INTs if it means another 1000 yards passing and 15 more TDs. 

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