Browns Fire Sashi, announce Hue Jackson will return in 2018 (Dorsey may have other plans)

[corta765]

1 hour ago, joesixpack said:

 

26CopyPaste posted a twitter link that shows just how effective the guy had been despite the w/l record.

 

 

BUT in the end W/L are what matters. They could've taken a QB in the past 2 seasons AND still had the majority of those picks. I don't disagree he probably got canned too early and should've been allowed his choice, but he also missed by not taking a QB when they reallyy really needed one and didn't pull the trigger.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, corta765 said:

 

BUT in the end W/L are what matters. They could've taken a QB in the past 2 seasons AND still had the majority of those picks. I don't disagree he probably got canned too early and should've been allowed his choice, but he also missed by not taking a QB when they reallyy really needed one and didn't pull the trigger.

 

Yes, he could have. But I get the feeling that despite the w/l record, they're on the right path. And they get pick of the litter this year...with objectively better QB options.

 

[corta765]

1 minute ago, joesixpack said:

 

Yes, he could have. But I get the feeling that despite the w/l record, they're on the right path. And they get pick of the litter this year...with objectively better QB options.

 

 Completely agree. Just saying had he picked Wentz and even if the team went say 2-14 last year and 4-12 or 5-11 this year he would've got a longer leash just because it feels like progress is being made. That unfortunately is what I think sunk him especially with the team really on the verge of 0-16.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

?

 

If the team wins 3 games next year McBeanes a lock to come back in 2019? 

 

 

 

They should be.

 

They should get a full 5. But you knew that was my opinion, already SnottLaw.

 

[Peter]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

If you couldn't see the Bills defense was a tire fire and Rex was in cruise control once he got paid from Pegula(outside of when we played the Jets), then I don't know what to tell you. 

 

If the team is absolutely putrid next season then any option is fair game, IMO.

 

No need to tell me anything . . . especially after the biblical three game stretch we had this season.

 

Objectively, Rex was the most successful Buffalo Bills coach since Wade - even with all of the injuries and effort to undermine him.  I get that some people are biased against him and like to throw around phrases like "tire fire" or "clown."  To me, this was unfair given his relative success in context and how the guy embraced Buffalo. Even when the guy was being thrown under the bus, he never took a shot at Whaley or ownership while he was the head coach.

 

You guys got your way so you should be happy.  Congratulations.  We have McBeane and their "process" and people are voting with their wallets by not buying tickets.  Fun.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

5 minutes ago, Peter said:

 

No need to tell me anything . . . especially after the biblical three game stretch we had this season.

 

Objectively, Rex was the most successful Buffalo Bills coach since Wade - even with all of the injuries and effort to undermine him.  I get that some people are biased against him and like to throw around phrases like "tire fire" or "clown."  To me, this was unfair given his relative success in context and how the guy embraced Buffalo. Even when the guy was being thrown under the bus, he never took a shot at Whaley or ownership while he was the head coach.

 

You guys got your way so you should be happy.  Congratulations.  We have McBeane and their "process" and people are voting with their wallets by not buying tickets.  Fun.

 

I mostly agree with you, but I like the way these guys are operating. Trimming fat, and moving guys who are problematic.

 

[Mr. WEO]

15 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

Yes, he could have. But I get the feeling that despite the w/l record, they're on the right path. And they get pick of the litter this year...with objectively better QB options.

 

 

 

Better than who?

[YoloinOhio]

25 minutes ago, kdiggz said:

this is actually really bad news for us.  they were going to get AJ McCarron and not draft a QB.  now that is probably out the window and they will be taking a QB #1 overall.  sucks for us

Well Hue is the one who wanted mccarron and he’s still there. Plus McCarron is trying to get the Bengals to count his first year as accrued even though he was injured so he can be a FA this year.. not sure that’s resolved yet.

[Mr. WEO]

20 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

someone with strong experience and success in drafting and building consistently winning football teams is critical to the future of the Cleveland Browns

 

20 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

The Browns almost make me feel like the league is rigged. They are so incredibly stupid it's hard to believe it's reality.

 

The quote above is the best!

 

NOW he thinks it would be a good idea to hire someone with experience?

[BillsFan4]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

1-27 Hue is safe 

 

 

 

Quote

Thursday's shakeup continues a run that has made Cleveland the NFL's most unstable franchise. Since returning to Cleveland, the Browns had had eight different general managers -- Brown, Ray Farmer, Michael Lombardi, Tom Heckert, George Kokinis, Phil Savage, Butch Davis and Dwight Clark. It also has employed longtime executives Paul DePodesta, Joe Banner, Mike Holmgren and Mike Keenan.

The Browns also have had nine head coaches since 1999, tied for fourth-most in the NFL. The Bills, Dolphins and Raiders have all had 10.

 

Depressing that we have actually had more head coaches during our drought than the Browns have... 

 

i know ive said this numerous times before, but IMO bad teams stay bad by constantly firain't coaches and GMs. 

 

That is why I think it's crucial that we stick with a coach and GM and see what happens when we let them build something and not abort the plan 2-3 years in... 

[corta765]

2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Better than who?

 

Well Darnold, Rosen, & at least Jackson all have been graded higher then Mahomes/Trubisky/Waston entering the draft not accounting Watsons amazing stretch for the sake of keeping just focused on leaving college for the draft. I have zero clue if any of them or someone like Allen or Mayfield will be better then the 2016 QB's, Goff, or Wentz, but those analyzing this draft/NFL personnel love the potential and traits shown thus far from this class compared to the previous 2 years.

 

That said I still think the Browns kinda blew it not taking a guy in either of the previous 2 years.

3 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

 

 

Depressing that we have actually had more head coaches during our drought than the Browns have... 

 

i know ive said this numerous times before, but IMO bad teams stay bad by constantly firain't coaches and GMs. 

 

That is why I think it's crucial that we stick with a coach and GM and see what happens when we let them build something and not abort the plan 2-3 years in... 

 

This is the sole reason I would've kept Rex Ryan for one more season especially if you were bringing back Tyrod. If you were going to do that again then give Rex one more year with his guys and draft picks to try and make it work. If it would've failed then scorch the earth on everything to start fresh. And for the record I was not and am not a Ryan fan in the least, but you gotta let a coach have enough time to make his mark. 3 years at least gives him 2 years of his draft and players and time to get his system in for better or worse.

[hondo in seattle]

1 hour ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

 

This is a very interesting assessment.  

 

Unfortunately, 1-27 says Sashi will never  get another chance with a different team.

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

3 minutes ago, corta765 said:

 

Well Darnold, Rosen, & at least Jackson all have been graded higher then Mahomes/Trubisky/Waston entering the draft not accounting Watsons amazing stretch for the sake of keeping just focused on leaving college for the draft. I have zero clue if any of them or someone like Allen or Mayfield will be better then the 2016 QB's, Goff, or Wentz, but those analyzing this draft/NFL personnel love the potential and traits shown thus far from this class compared to the previous 2 years.

 

That said I still think the Browns kinda blew it not taking a guy in either of the previous 2 years.

 

 

 

It's the previous draft that that really blew it.  They had  a chance again last year.  Passed.

 

As an organization, you can't keep saying "yeah but let's see how NEXT year's QBs grade out".  And I doubt if they were even thinking that anyway.

 

Their HC's solution to their QB problem was to bring in RG3.

 

Everyone should be fired in that building....

[K-9]

1 hour ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

Moneyball  passed on Wentz,  Goff, Trubisky, and Watson.  

Yep. And now, under the pressure of that scrutiny, they will force themselves to take a lesser prospect in a far weaker QB draft. They should resist the temptation and take a blue chip talent at another position early or trade down.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

11 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Yep. And now, under the pressure of that scrutiny, they will force themselves to take a lesser prospect in a far weaker QB draft. They should resist the temptation and take a blue chip talent at another position early or trade down.

 

This is a weaker QB draft?  I think the top guys seem just as good as the last few drafts, and there's a decent amount of mid-level guys with more talent and intangibles.  

Nobody will come out without something of an issue.  Wentz struggled with deep passes, Goff didn't play under center/played in a spread - same as Trubisky and Watson.  That makes scouting that much more important.  Beyond all of that - COACHING for your QB is clearly really important.  I don't know that we have good guys in the room right now, and i don't know that we have in the last 15 years.

[stony]

33 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

Yes, he could have. But I get the feeling that despite the w/l record, they're on the right path. And they get pick of the litter this year...with objectively better QB options.

 

 

So do I.  

 

Only "downside" is he didn't draft a QB...which maybe he was waiting on until this year.

5 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Yep. And now, under the pressure of that scrutiny, they will force themselves to take a lesser prospect in a far weaker QB draft. They should resist the temptation and take a blue chip talent at another position early or trade down.

 

Is it a weaker draft?

 

People act like Wentz was a sure thing and Watson was going to be an All-Star from day 1.  

 

Brown's philosophy was to hedge against this uncertainty at the top of the draft by accumulating a boatload of picks.  He just never got to take a swing.  The next guy up is going to take a swing, and will benefit from Brown's stockpile of talent and picks.   

[K-9]

1 minute ago, dneveu said:

 

This is a weaker QB draft?  I think the top guys seem just as good as the last few drafts, and there's a decent amount of mid-level guys with more talent and intangibles.  

Nobody will come out without something of an issue.  Wentz struggled with deep passes, Goff didn't play under center/played in a spread - same as Trubisky and Watson.  That makes scouting that much more important.  Beyond all of that - COACHING for your QB is clearly really important.  I don't know that we have good guys in the room right now, and i don't know that we have in the last 15 years.

Compared to the last two classes, yeah, I don't think it's as strong and those two classes had a ton of question marks as it was. I think Rosen is the only legit top 10 prospect at the moment. That said, if the Browns are convinced that a QB is worth it, and they feel they have the right environment for a rookie QB to come into, then they should go ahead and get their guy and be done with it. I just think there are far better prospects at other positions vs. the QB crop. 

 

You're spot on with regard to the idea that all prospects have warts. I think Cleveland would be better served by continuing to collect blue chip talent at the top of the draft in favor of better prospects at other positions without the those question marks. Screwing the pooch on a QB is different than screwing the pooch on any other position it seems. I don't think that's fair, but it's held to a different level of scrutiny. 

[Thurman#1]

3 hours ago, joesixpack said:

Bad move, bad look. The guy had one draft, am i correct?

 

 

 

He was hired in January of 2016 and is often held accountable for not picking Wentz. So, two, I think.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

49 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Yep. And now, under the pressure of that scrutiny, they will force themselves to take a lesser prospect in a far weaker QB draft. They should resist the temptation and take a blue chip talent at another position early or trade down.

 

You may be the only person on earth taht thinks this is a weaker qb draft.

 

[C.Biscuit97]

2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Ha! I recall Mike Schopp lauding the Browns as the model rebuild and how the Bills would be smart to follow their blueprint.

I hate Schoop but he kinda was right. The Browns just drafted really, really poorly.

 

if we miss the playoffs, would you rather have the 12-20 pick or the 1 overall?  As terrible as the Browns are, they still have a great chance at a really good qb prospect.

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, Acantha said:

He had his chance to take a QB, and as always that's what makes or breaks a GM.  Personally, I really liked what the Browns were doing.  Looks to me like most teams would be lucky to have Brown as part of their scouting/draft department.

 

 

 

Yeah, I loved what they were doing with the draft and accumulating picks. Just smart.

 

I guess he and Hue didn't get along and they chose Hue.

 

And yeah, as you say, not picking Wentz has hung around his neck like an anvil. They're likely to have a shot at one of the top two guys this year, though. I think the Browns' future is bright, though the owner seems dead-set on sabotaging himself and the organization.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I hate Schoop but he kinda was right. The Browns just drafted really, really poorly.

 

if we miss the playoffs, would you rather have the 12-20 pick or the 1 overall?  As terrible as the Browns are, they still have a great chance at a really good qb prospect.

 

first overall. therefore my advocacy for the tank.

 

if you're not in the playoffs, there's no point in winning 4-8 games.

 

[26CornerBlitz]

One man's opinion:

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:

One man's opinion:

 

loads of draft choices and cap room set up buy the guy who just got fired.

 

 

[st pete gogolak]

Hey, this gives Hue Jackson a shot at obliterating Harvey Johnson's record as worst head coach of all time.  Harvey was 2-23-1 in two interim stints with the Bills and if my math is right Jackson is a scintillating 1-27 with the Browns. 

[Dkollidas]

Here’s hoping this leads to them going after AJ McCarron, and either drafting Barkley at #1 or trading down for even more picks... after all, 

its the Browns. 

[Toledo Bill]

1 hour ago, st pete gogolak said:

Hey, this gives Hue Jackson a shot at obliterating Harvey Johnson's record as worst head coach of all time.  Harvey was 2-23-1 in two interim stints with the Bills and if my math is right Jackson is a scintillating 1-27 with the Browns. 

And some of our younger fans think this stretch of poor play is tough. The Harvey Johnson era was really "special"...

[Chadwick Bay Chad]

Should we hire him?  Everyone hates Beane

[Bills Fan of St Augustine]

2 hours ago, K-9 said:

Compared to the last two classes, yeah, I don't think it's as strong and those two classes had a ton of question marks as it was. I think Rosen is the only legit top 10 prospect at the moment. That said, if the Browns are convinced that a QB is worth it, and they feel they have the right environment for a rookie QB to come into, then they should go ahead and get their guy and be done with it. I just think there are far better prospects at other positions vs. the QB crop. 

 

You're spot on with regard to the idea that all prospects have warts. I think Cleveland would be better served by continuing to collect blue chip talent at the top of the draft in favor of better prospects at other positions without the those question marks. Screwing the pooch on a QB is different than screwing the pooch on any other position it seems. I don't think that's fair, but it's held to a different level of scrutiny. 

I disagree - the QB class this year is at least as good as last year. I think better and with more depth.  We should get our franchise guy unless we win out. So we get our franchise guy.

[BobbyC81]

4 hours ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

Bills need to take note....I'm hoping Beane and company are smarter than that.....but 2018 will tell us a lot about the philosophy. However, Beane and his staff haven't even had ONE draft yet...so, despite my caveat about the QB situation, I hope they at least get 2 years to acquire talent...

 

Remember, they’re not acquiring talent; they’re building a team.  ?

[BobbyC81]

4 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Who would want the job as a GM if your tied to Hue Jackson and can't hire your own coach? 

 

 

 

Not very many

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[C.Biscuit97]

2 hours ago, joesixpack said:

 

first overall. therefore my advocacy for the tank.

 

if you're not in the playoffs, there's no point in winning 4-8 games.

 

ANd there sums up my problem with the new regime.  THEy have half @ssed and they don't seem like they had a plan. They should have either went for the playoffs and not traded talented players for garbage replacements.  Or they should have traded everyone and let Taylor walk.

 

Their plan was broken.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

ANd there sums up my problem with the new regime.  THEy have half @ssed and they don't seem like they had a plan. They should have either went for the playoffs and not traded talented players for garbage replacements.  Or they should have traded everyone and let Taylor walk.

 

Their plan was broken.

 

I'd bet dollars to donuts Terry Pegula instructed them DIRECTLY not to tear to the studs. When they traded watkins, I thought for sure the tank was on.

 

But I think Pegula is over-sensitive to the fan caterwauling.

 

[C.Biscuit97]

7 minutes ago, LittleJoeCartwright said:

 

Not very many

You're wrong. It's an awesome job.  You inherited a ton of draft picks and have no loyalty to the coach. Most GMs don't get to a 2nd coach but Cleveland's next one will.

Just now, joesixpack said:

 

I'd bet dollars to donuts Terry Pegula instructed them DIRECTLY not to tear to the studs. When they traded watkins, I thought for sure the tank was on.

 

But I think Pegula is over-sensitive to the fan caterwauling.

 

I think you're giving SM and his puppet GM way too much credit but we'll see. I'd honestly fire Beane and hire a  GM to oversee the Bald Ginger.  He has way too much undeserved power.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

 

I think you're giving SM and his puppet GM way too much credit but we'll see. I'd honestly fire Beane and hire a  GM to oversee the Bald Ginger.  He has way too much undeserved power.

 

Based on what? your opinion? Let's hope pegula has a vision bigger than that.

 

Edited December 7, 2017 by joesixpack

[C.Biscuit97]

2 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

Based on what? your opinion? Let's hope pegula has a vision bigger than that.

 

Jordan Matthews replacing Sammy. Trading Dareus in the middle of a playoff race.  Peterman puking all over himself.  Eric Lee.  Tolbert as a backup rb.  The Carolina getting much better after SM left.

 

lots of fails.  I'm fine with SM being the new version of Dick Jauron but he needs to be checked.  His little buddy Beane can't do that.  It's a problem.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, C.Biscuit97 said:

Jordan Matthews replacing Sammy. Trading Dareus in the middle of a playoff race.  Peterman puking all over himself.  Eric Lee.  Tolbert as a backup rb.  The Carolina getting much better after SM left.

 

lots of fails.  I'm fine with SM being the new version of Dick Jauron but he needs to be checked.  His little buddy Beane can't do that.  It's a problem.

 

I'm noticing you're not mentioning his successes. so, I'll file this under the category of watkins whine.

 

I've noticed that people who hate McDermott tend to do that. Maximize what they consider (without factual backup) his failures while minimizing his quantifiable successes.

 

[Luka]

9 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I think you're giving SM and his puppet GM way too much credit but we'll see. I'd honestly fire Beane and hire a  GM to oversee the Bald Ginger.  He has way too much undeserved power.

 

After no drafts? And who says McDermott doesn't deserve it? People were saying it was a tank year but we were 5-2 before the wheels came off the Tyrod train. I think out of anyone, McDermott has earned what he has. He knew he was walking into a mess, he new it was going to get gutted, but he still had these guys ready to play. And Beane did exactly what Cleveland did, obtain draft picks. It's what he does with them this offseason.

4 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Jordan Matthews replacing Sammy. Trading Dareus in the middle of a playoff race.  Peterman puking all over himself.  Eric Lee.  Tolbert as a backup rb.  The Carolina getting much better after SM left.

 

lots of fails.  I'm fine with SM being the new version of Dick Jauron but he needs to be checked.  His little buddy Beane can't do that.  It's a problem.

I notice you omitted signing Hyde, Poyer, getting Gaines in a trade and drafting White, essentially overhauling the entire secondary and having it be so good that teams just run all over us instead. Also ignoring how good Milano is.

[C.Biscuit97]

4 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

I'm noticing you're not mentioning his successes. so, I'll file this under the category of watkins whine.

 

I've noticed that people who hate McDermott tend to do that. Maximize what they consider (without factual backup) his failures while minimizing his quantifiable successes.

 

We're 6-6 in one of the worst playoff races in recent years.  He single handedly cost as a game with the Peterman decision.  

 

Like i said, I'm fine with him as coach.  I hate how much power he has and think it will cost us long term as it did this year.