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Kirby Jackson

Anyone concerned about the wr talent?

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1 minute ago, kdiggz said:

Tyrod is a 3000 yard passer with Jerry Rice, Randy Moss, and Tim Brown.  He is what he is.

If he is what he is why do you need to exaggerate to make your point?

He is a 3000 yard passer in 14 games with Watkins, Woods, and Hogan

He is a 3000 yard passer in 15 games with Woods, Goodwin, and Watkins for 7 games

 

Anyway, this is about our WRs, not QB, as Kirby suggested multiple times.

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I was high on Matthews and gave him the benefit of the doubt but I am starting to think he is overrated. Seems like he is never open and he is unreliable when trying to make the catch

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1 hour ago, Air it out Fitzy said:

 

All anyone did was bash Goodwin while he was here.     Now we all want him back 😩

 

Those were pretty funny.   All the Sammy haters showed us the stats that proved Matthews > Sammy 🙄

 

That wont apply next year.    

Well said and you kind of illustrated the point that I was trying to make. We aren’t talking about this year. We are talking about next year when we will presumably have a young 1st round QB to build around.  Let’s give him everything that he needs to succeed. Jordan Matthews in the starting lineup isn’t that.

54 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Completely agree regarding Matthews.

 

As you know, I've been all over signing Paul Richardson.  I think he's the exact missing piece in this WR corps: speed, hands, explosiveness, and has been around a winning organization.

 

Put him on the boundary across from KB, slide Zay into the slot, and run with Holmes and Deonte as the 4/5.  Toss in a youngster like Brandon Reilly and you're in good shape IMO.

That’s why I threw Richardson out there. He may be the perfect fit and you’ve been saying that for months. I think that WR group that you mentioned is a big upgrade on what we have now.

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1 hour ago, THEHARDTRUTH said:

More arguing about Tyrod. Bitchin. He sucks. No he doesnt. Yes he does. No he doesnt. Does. Doesnt. Does. Doesnt. Does. Doesnt....

was there any added value to this post?   

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I intentionally tried to preface this by saying WE WILL BE GETTING A NEW QB. Somehow some people evolved back to “you can’t get receivers until you get a qb” or “you can’t evalaute receivers with TT.” Really?!? You can’t see that Matthews doesn’t separate? Peterman throws on time and is supposed to be accurate. He has only completed 48.7% of his passes too. Do we really not think that the lack of WR talent is a part of the reason?? 

 

This thread has has nothing to do with the QB. If you think that the WR are good enough that’s fine. I think that they are missing a #1/2 and that’s why I started this thread. It was about getting opinions as to how you would fill out that group.

3 minutes ago, Mike in Horseheads said:

I think Zay will be good and I like KB. It would be nice if we could get everyone on the field healthy at the same time but the QB is still the biggest issue.

I still have confidence in Zay but he hasn’t been near the player that I expected. I thought 60 catches and 800 yards. I also thought that he would be a solid route runner with good hands. He hasn’t been either of those. I am certainly not ready to give up on him.

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1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

No it happened with Peterman under center too. Romo pointed it out over and over. Our receivers can’t make a contested catch to save their lives. Three straight plays in the red  zone Peterman threw to Zay Jones matched up against Gilmore. Gilmore beat him cleanly all 3 times. Getting Benjamin back out there will help but you have to be concerned about injuries with him. Next year I would love a speed guy on the outside and Zay in the slot.

Read the bold.  

 

Of course you can't get a lot of separation in the Red Zone!!!   If it were that easy every team would score int he RZ.  

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I think this is what those middle round picks are for....

 

My thinking is that regardless of whether we have 2 first round picks this year the going price is going to be a 1st this year AND next year and some additional picks if we are seriously going to pick up a qb

 

That means we should retain the majority of these picks

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2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

And the offense was good!! Look at what the Bills receivers are doing now. Goodwin has more yards than Benjamin, Matthews and Jones combined!! He had Hoyer and Beathard. The guys we have aren’t good. They get no separation and don’t scare anyone down the field. That’s an awful combination of skills. You have to do at least one of the 2.

 

With that being said they are going to have a new QB anyways. You don’t need to wait and find out that Jordan Matthews is never open. Just watch the tape. There is zero chance that he is back. You need to fill that spot regardless.

 

Dude you answered your own question. Goodwin is better than he was here EVER.

 

Why?

 

Think about it man.

 

 

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Just now, Kirby Jackson said:

I intentionally tried to preface this by saying WE WILL BE GETTING A NEW QB. Somehow some people evolved back to “you can’t get receivers until you get a qb” or “you can’t evalaute receivers with TT.” Really?!? You can’t see that Matthews doesn’t separate? Peterman throws on time and is supposed to be accurate. He has only completed 48.7% of his passes too. Do we really not think that the lack of WR talent is a part of the reason?? 

 

This thread has has nothing to do with the QB. If you think that the WR are good enough that’s fine. I think that they are missing a #1/2 and that’s why I started this thread. It was about getting opinions as to how you would fill out that group.

 

It's unfortunate that you can't raise an important issue regarding WR personnel without it devolving into the typical circular arguments that are ubiquitously raised in thread after thread.  Good topic nonetheless.

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1 hour ago, 87168 said:

the OC personnel has regressed.

 

since he has been here, he has had two different head coaches due to the FO firing them. I would hardly say TT "burned" through them. Roman and A. Lynn had this offense clicking...the FO changed staff, and the entire offense has since regressed, including the run game.

its everyone else's fault but Taylor's.    blah blah blah followed by blah blah blah

 

It's like EJ all over again.  People can't let go of a failed experiment.  

 

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1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

It's unfortunate that you can't raise an important issue regarding WR personnel without it devolving into the typical circular arguments that are ubiquitously raised in thread after thread.  Good topic nonetheless.

 

Let's clarify for the challenged here:

 

Let's say you have a car and the wheels don't turn. You take the car to the shop, replace the wheels and they still don't turn. You take it to another shop and you find out it's because THE ENGINE IS DEAD.

 

You literally can NOT judge WR talent here. It's as i said at the beginning of the year. Sammy Watkins was $10k rims on an 85 taurus.

 

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3 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

Dude you answered your own question. Goodwin is better than he was here EVER.

 

Why?

 

Think about it man.

 

 

I don’t think it’s because of Hoyer and Beathard.

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2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I don’t think it’s because of Hoyer and Beathard.

 

Hoyer and beathard > taylor or EJ.

 

 

It's true, whether or not you wish to acknowledge it.

 

 

Edited by joesixpack

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32 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

If he is what he is why do you need to exaggerate to make your point?

He is a 3000 yard passer in 14 games with Watkins, Woods, and Hogan

He is a 3000 yard passer in 15 games with Woods, Goodwin, and Watkins for 7 games

 

Anyway, this is about our WRs, not QB, as Kirby suggested multiple times.

yet Kirby may be missing the point.  

 

In Buffalo and Buffalo alone we have a QB that does not throw the ball a lot.   W/o a plethora of passes distributed evenly we just can't tell.   

 

And I'm not talking 4 or 5 straight passes to Zay or KB or C Clay and then they're forgotten for the remainder of the game,  

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3 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

its everyone else's fault but Taylor's.    blah blah blah followed by blah blah blah

 

It's like EJ all over again.  People can't let go of a failed experiment.  

 

Why are you talking about Tyrod? He won’t be here next year!! Please stay on topic

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2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

While the Bills work to remake this roster we rarely see people talk about it. Before anyone says, you can’t do anything with TT, Marquise Goodwin has more yards this year than Matthews, Jones and Benjamin combined for the Bills. He played primarily with Hoyer and Beathard. Romo talked about it during the game on Sunday; the guys don’t get open. As we bring in a rookie QB it would be wise to give him weapons.

 

Personally I think Matthews stinks, he’s never open and is a limited athlete. Benjamin is a good, not great WR. Zay has been a big disappointment to me because I had high expectations. He just always seems to be off balance. I like Thompson and think that he fills a role. The Bills still need a #1/2 depending on how you define Benjamin. 

 

Would you rather sign someone like Davante Adams, Jarvis Landry, Allen Robinson, Terrelle Pryor, Paul Richardson or Donte Moncrief or draft a guy in the first couple of rounds? 

Paul Richardson should come at a reasonable price amd fills a role for us. As well as being a guy with upside.

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2 minutes ago, joesixpack said:
Quote
4 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

It's unfortunate that you can't raise an important issue regarding WR personnel without it devolving into the typical circular arguments that are ubiquitously raised in thread after thread.  Good topic nonetheless.

Let's clarify for the challenged here:

 

Let's say you have a car and the wheels don't turn. You take the car to the shop, replace the wheels and they still don't turn. You take it to another shop and you find out it's because THE ENGINE IS DEAD.

 

You literally can NOT judge WR talent here. It's as i said at the beginning of the year. Sammy Watkins was $10k rims on an 85 taurus.

 

You think that maybe CopyPaste need pictures to tell his story?

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Just now, joesixpack said:

 

Hoyer and beathard > taylor.

 

It's true, whether or not you wish to acknowledge it.

 

 

I don’t believe that to be true (and I’d be surprised if many/any football experts took that position). Obviously Kyle Shanahan is light years ahead of Rick Dennison. You really don’t see an issue that Goodwin has more yards than Zay, Matthews and Benjamin combined??

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Just now, ShadyBillsFan said:

You think that maybe CopyPaste need pictures to tell his story?

 

Well, duh.

 

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1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

While the Bills work to remake this roster we rarely see people talk about it. Before anyone says, you can’t do anything with TT, Marquise Goodwin has more yards this year than Matthews, Jones and Benjamin combined for the Bills. He played primarily with Hoyer and Beathard. Romo talked about it during the game on Sunday; the guys don’t get open. As we bring in a rookie QB it would be wise to give him weapons.

 

Personally I think Matthews stinks, he’s never open and is a limited athlete. Benjamin is a good, not great WR. Zay has been a big disappointment to me because I had high expectations. He just always seems to be off balance. I like Thompson and think that he fills a role. The Bills still need a #1/2 depending on how you define Benjamin. 

 

Would you rather sign someone like Davante Adams, Jarvis Landry, Allen Robinson, Terrelle Pryor, Paul Richardson or Donte Moncrief or draft a guy in the first couple of rounds? 

 

Goodwin also has 70 targets this year (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GoodMa00.htm), Matthews (36), Jones (68) and Benjamin (7) have a combined 111 targets which is criminal in comparison to Goodwin (stats per pro-football-reference.com), Goodwin has more targets individually than any of them and therefor more opportunity, Hoyer and Beathard are not elite QB's, but like Kyle Orton was here, they are capable pocket passers who can read the field somewhat and make anticipatory throws or understand where the ball needs to go, which is going to help with the "production" many members of this board are over infatuated with IMO.

 

TT is not a pocket passer by any stretch of the imagination much less in reality, and I think he has improved this year vs. last year in utilizing the whole field more, he is still limited, therefor the WR production will always be limited with him at QB as well.

 

Matthews has always been a big slot who is a capable zone buster and height mis-match on smaller slot CB's, he's never been a #1 or #2 WR who can beat man coverage or threaten the deep field, nor has he ever gotten separation via athletic ability. Basically he's a possession receiver who needs  or to use his football IQ to find holes in zones and is reliant upon a QB who can read the field and get him the ball based upon coverage, which is not TT. When there is no legitimate threat at QB or at WR around him, coverage is easier for the D and he is essentially useless in Buffalo, vs. what he was and who was the QB in Philly or who he would be playing for say NO. If they get a QB who has pocket passing skills, he could still be "productive" and useful here this year if Peterman shows anything. I suspect like R. Woods he'll get more money to play else where with a passing QB and his "production" will return. 

 

Benjamin can be the #1 here and I agree a Good WR, he creates problems for defenses but for all the flak Watkins received for being injury prone, Benjamin has missed 7 more games in his 4 years in the league and has less "production" and like Matthews is too slow and does not have the athletic ability to make lateral cuts and create separation, IMO he's a complimentary WR2 ideally, who is obviously a size mismatch for any DB and his catching radius and physicality make him a low end #1. 

 

I think Zay needed some time to adjust, and have hopes that he can be a #1 in time, which was what I projected him to be. He's learning and I think next year he'll make a big jump as he continues to adjust, keeps running better routes, I think the ability to make cuts and create separation is there. I like Thompson a lot my self and think there is a role for hi, m here.

 

Currently there is little separation, but I have seen WR's "NFL" open at times on the TV broadcasts, and have not seen much of the 22 this year to confirm or deny confidently, but it would not surprise. I do think however that they have set up the WR core for the future with Benjamin and Jones being there #1 and #2 interchangeably and both have the ability to work out of the slot. Thompson I like as a fill it starter if needed, deep threat and role playing #3, Matthews I think is gone so I think B. Reilly, M. Dupre, and or Rookie to fill in the gaps. Of the guys you mentioned (most are lateral or less appealing #2's IMO), Landry could fill in the slot role (gap 1) for the new QB, but I dont see them spending much to fill that role, I think they need a speed guy (gap 2) and the only one I see is Richardson, so its him or a rookie like your boy P. Campbell.

 

WR1 - Benjamin or Jones

WR2 - Jones or Benjamin

WRslot - Reilly/rookie/Thompson

WRspeed - Thompson/ Rookie (Campbell)/Richardson (FA)

WR - Swiss Army Knife/Gaps - Thompson, Dupre, Rookie

 

IMO this would give the new QB a real chance to develop and have weapons to utilize and grow with.

 

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2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I don’t believe that to be true (and I’d be surprised if many/any football experts took that position). Obviously Kyle Shanahan is light years ahead of Rick Dennison. You really don’t see an issue that Goodwin has more yards than Zay, Matthews and Benjamin combined??

 

To be clear: i think we have QB AND OC issues.

 

It doesn't have to be one or the other.


What I don't think we have is a WR issue.

 

 

Edited by joesixpack

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1 minute ago, horned dogs said:

Paul Richardson should come at a reasonable price amd fills a role for us. As well as being a guy with upside.

 

2 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

yet Kirby may be missing the point.  

 

In Buffalo and Buffalo alone we have a QB that does not throw the ball a lot.   W/o a plethora of passes distributed evenly we just can't tell.   

 

And I'm not talking 4 or 5 straight passes to Zay or KB or C Clay and then they're forgotten for the remainder of the game,  

I can tell. I would think that most people can tell. If you watch the routes, are they open? It’s not rocket science. 

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7 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

Let's clarify for the challenged here:

 

Let's say you have a car and the wheels don't turn. You take the car to the shop, replace the wheels and they still don't turn. You take it to another shop and you find out it's because THE ENGINE IS DEAD.

 

You literally can NOT judge WR talent here. It's as i said at the beginning of the year. Sammy Watkins was $10k rims on an 85 taurus.

 

 

The challenged don't understand that with a plan to acquire a franchise QB, you don't shed young talented assets that can help that player to develop. 

Edited by 26CornerBlitz

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1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

The challenged don't understand that with a plan to acquire a franchise QB, you don't shed young talented assets that can help that player to develop. 

 

:lol:

 

Still pining for the fjords, I see. Wake me up when Watkins is a difference maker.

 

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