SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 FWIW I hate extremely conservative It has the potential to lose games Exactly.Just looking at stats and then saying "look at this" doesn't tell the story.... but it's what people do to fit their narrative.They've done it essentially every game since week 1 in which they've had the lead.I thought it would cost them the Falcons game but the defense held. The Oakland game was a little frustrating but they were in control of the game so it's hard to argue.My point all along has been Tyrod is solid. He's not great, he has his warts but he's solid. He's A LOT like an Alex Smith in that respect.That said, I'm all for a 1st round QB while keeping Taylor aboard. How many draft picks would you be willing to offer to get a top 3 pick? 2 or 3 s/b safe with Cleveland picking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 I believe I heard the announcers say that The Bills have scored Zero TD's in the 1st QTR all season. oh look Why Bills have NFLs fewest points in first quarter I thought you were incessantly banging the drum that he needs to be good late when we're behind like he was vs the Bucs? Or that he needs to be better on 3rd downs? He currently has the 6th best 3rd down conversion % in the NFL when passing. And that doesn't even account for the 3rd downs he's converted with his legs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 (edited) For a guy who seems to be following my posts you sure don't pay attention. I have not posted about 3rd downs in over a month, so go ahead and keep playing the fool. We need to be great EVERY quarter. feel better now? No TD's in the 1st QRT isn't worrisome to you? Edited November 1, 2017 by ShadyBillsFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 For a guy who seems to be following my posts you sure don't pay attention. I have not posted about 3rd downs in over a month, so go ahead and keep playing the fool. We need to be great EVERY quarter. WE NEED A FLAWLESS QB!!!! Yeah, that'd be wonderful. Not ever happening, though. You asked and pounded the table for some specific improvements from Taylor in the offseason. Looks like he's improving in those specific areas, but you don't spend time talking about those things you so desperately wanted to see, instead, well.... EEEEYOOOORRREEE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Here's how I think about it. Taylor is not a great passer. Yep, his passer and QBR ratings can look good but we all know he can't lead a team down the field with his arm the way a Brees, Brady or Rodgers can. But Taylor can be a cog in an efficient offensive machine. We saw that last year. We're seeing that again this year the past couple games. The guy does throw some beautiful passes here and there. His scrambling/running talent is spectacular. And he's a competitor. If we draft the next JK, great! If not, I'm good with TT under center. I believe we can get to the playoffs with a TT led offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 thanks for admitting to being an EEEEYOOOORRREEE Now, if you want to talk rationally instead of stalking me .... We could discuss the issue or DEFERRING the ball every damn game as being a possible reason. on second thought never mind, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 For a guy who seems to be following my posts you sure don't pay attention. I have not posted about 3rd downs in over a month, so go ahead and keep playing the fool. We need to be great EVERY quarter. feel better now? No TD's in the 1st QRT isn't worrisome to you? What are your thoughts on Andrew Luck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 What are your thoughts on Andrew Luck? Yes. He's being wasted in Indy just like Peyton was in his early years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 (edited) I believe I heard the announcers say that The Bills have scored Zero TD's in the 1st QTR all season. oh look Why Bills have NFLs fewest points in first quarter After that we are... 2nd quarter 10th 3rd quarter 12th 4th quarter 10th https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/4th-quarter-points-per-game Edited November 1, 2017 by Scott7975 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Yes. He's being wasted in Indy just like Peyton was in his early years. In 2016, in the 1st quarter Luck had a 67.1 passer rating and threw 4 TDs/5 INTs (15 games started). Ill skip 2015 because he was injured but his 1st quarter stats were even worse that year. In 2014, in the 1st quarter he had an 81.5 passer rating and threw 7 TDs/4 INTs (16 games started). So I guess this means Luck isnt good enough since he sucks in the 1st quarter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat68 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Do both. Build around Taylor and bring in a young guy with some potential. I dont think we need to trade the farm for a qb but they can package a pick or 2 for the right guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 (edited) After that we are... 2nd quarter 10th 3rd quarter 12th 4th quarter 10th https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/4th-quarter-points-per-game I'm not a fan of deferring all the time. Get the lead and hold onto the damn thing. People hear that crap on TV and assume we suck because we can't score. (shh don't tell anyone I'm defending TT) PPg have been down, but we've seen an uptick. Lets keep that rolling. (I was a bit disappointed at the opening 2nd half drive Sunday) In 2016, in the 1st quarter Luck had a 67.1 passer rating and threw 4 TDs/5 INTs (15 games started). Ill skip 2015 because he was injured but his 1st quarter stats were even worse that year. In 2014, in the 1st quarter he had an 81.5 passer rating and threw 7 TDs/4 INTs (16 games started). So I guess this means Luck isnt good enough since he sucks in the 1st quarter. I held back in my last post because I wasn't sure it you were a Luck fan or not. Heaven forbid I criticize him. Impressed, I am not, with Andrew Luck. Yet, my comment holds true. Indy is a poorly managed team. also , if oh look wasn't a clue that I was being a wise ass.... Edited November 1, 2017 by ShadyBillsFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenseWins Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Tyrod Taylor 2017 Wk Opp A/C YDS TD 1 NYJ 16/28 224 2 2 Caro 17/25 125 0 3 Denv 20/26 213 2 4 Atl 12/20 182 1 5 Cinc 20/37 166 1 6 Bye 7 TBay 20/33 268 1 8 Oak 20/27 165 1 Are the Bills winning these games because of Taylors QB skills or are they winning because of their DEFENSE? Be honest here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Tyrod Taylor 2017 Wk Opp A/C YDS TD 1 NYJ 16/28 224 2 2 Caro 17/25 125 0 3 Denv 20/26 213 2 4 Atl 12/20 182 1 5 Cinc 20/37 166 1 6 Bye 7 TBay 20/33 268 1 8 Oak 20/27 165 1 Are the Bills winning these games because of Taylors QB skills or are they winning because of their DEFENSE? Be honest here... Both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumbleAndHungry Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 We have enough picks to surround Taylor and still select a qb high .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPP Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Tyrod Taylor 2017 Wk Opp A/C YDS TD 1 NYJ 16/28 224 2 2 Caro 17/25 125 0 3 Denv 20/26 213 2 4 Atl 12/20 182 1 5 Cinc 20/37 166 1 6 Bye 7 TBay 20/33 268 1 8 Oak 20/27 165 1 Are the Bills winning these games because of Taylors QB skills or are they winning because of their DEFENSE? Be honest here... Both sometimes moreso the defence in some games sometimes the offence in others......some advice....watch the actual games instead of analyzing stats and you come to your own conclusion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Both. ....aren't you defying the "logic(COUGH)" of the renowned "300 Yard Club"??.................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 ....aren't you defying the "logic(COUGH)" of the renowned "300 Yard Club"??.................... The special club that guarantees you win the game (with the exception of about 15 games this season). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 The special club that guarantees you win the game (with the exception of about 15 games this season). ....yup, them....and they certainly are "special"........................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Tyrod Taylor 2017 Wk Opp A/C YDS TD 1 NYJ 16/28 224 2 2 Caro 17/25 125 0 3 Denv 20/26 213 2 4 Atl 12/20 182 1 5 Cinc 20/37 166 1 6 Bye 7 TBay 20/33 268 1 8 Oak 20/27 165 1 Are the Bills winning these games because of Taylors QB skills or are they winning because of their DEFENSE? Be honest here... IMO the Defense is helping this team Win games. i of which I pointed to was the ATL game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Tyrod Taylor 2017 Wk Opp A/C YDS TD 1 NYJ 16/28 224 2 2 Caro 17/25 125 0 3 Denv 20/26 213 2 4 Atl 12/20 182 1 5 Cinc 20/37 166 1 6 Bye 7 TBay 20/33 268 1 8 Oak 20/27 165 1 Are the Bills winning these games because of Taylors QB skills or are they winning because of their DEFENSE? Be honest here... I think the two wins you can say Tyrod played more than just "a good team role" in are Denver (I think it was one of his best games in a Bills jersey if not the best) and Tampa (didn't play as well as v Denver but made some clutch plays). Beyond that he has been a solid game manager in the other 3 wins and played 1 below par game (Cincy) and 1 bad game (Carolina). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Defensive coaches bring a defensive approach to their teams, it's that simple. So far this year all the teams with head coaches with offensive backgrounds are averaging 33 pass attempts per game. Teams with head coaches with defensive backgrounds are averaging 31 attempts per game. The top 3 teams in terms of pass attempts per game are teams with head coaches with offensive backgrounds... none of which include the hoodie or Brady. We have a defensive head coach. We will pass less than if we had an offensive head coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPP Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 not going to pass much when your main running back gets over 30 touches and thats not including tolbert....btw TT passing game in oakland was very spot on.....so why complain? we are winning with weapons on both sides of the ball...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 not going to pass much when your main running back gets over 30 touches and thats not including tolbert....btw TT passing game in oakland was very spot on.....so why complain? we are winning with weapons on both sides of the ball...... Because it's no fun to sit around and be happy for once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 I don't get why so many on this board think that Petterman will have be a starter in this league. He's a 5th round pick. A dime a dozen. If anyone thinks he will ever outplay TT for the job, I have a bridge I want to sell you. I bet someone once said the same thing about Bledsoe/Brady or Everett/Warner etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Defensive coaches bring a defensive approach to their teams, it's that simple. So far this year all the teams with head coaches with offensive backgrounds are averaging 33 pass attempts per game. Teams with head coaches with defensive backgrounds are averaging 31 attempts per game. The top 3 teams in terms of pass attempts per game are teams with head coaches with offensive backgrounds... none of which include the hoodie or Brady. We have a defensive head coach. We will pass less than if we had an offensive head coach. Yeah, I don't think it's that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 I bet someone once said the same thing about Bledsoe/Brady or Everett/Warner etc... Don't tell him when Taylor was drafted. His head might explode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 (edited) I don't get why so many on this board think that Petterman will have be a starter in this league. He's a 5th round pick. A dime a dozen. If anyone thinks he will ever outplay TT for the job, I have a bridge I want to sell you. This is Buffalo, which means the backup QB is ALWAYS better than the guy who's starting. Frank Reich was definitely better than Jim Kelly. TT gets paid way more than Shady when accounting for AAV. Also, I care about scoring. We're 26th in passing TD's though. The last time I looked, the coaching staff decides the type of offense a team runs, and most OCs call plays for their QBs. You're simply scapegoating Tyrod because you need something to complain about. An almost perfect post in terms of matching what I might write on this topic. We should continue to field the best team possible every time we play. That means Tyrod for now, but we should keep an eye on always improving the team too. Beane confirmed today in his chat with Schopp and Bulldog that they are always looking to do that and even get excited when they are able to snatch a guy on waivers, if it was a guy they targeted and wanted. Always look down the road while keeping your eye on the upcoming game too. We should continue to aggressively pursue a QB better than Tyrod, and play that QB when he is ready. In the meantime, build up around Tyrod and make the most out of him while he is the QB. I agree. The reality is, whether it's Tyrod or a young QB in the future, if the Bills build a better team all the way around, it will benefit whoever plays QB. Let's face this sad fact: Aaron Rodgers as their QB couldn't have helped most of Bills teams in this century make the playoffs. Nobody can say that Drew Bledsoe wasn't a good QB, and he couldn't do it. Who knows if Losman might have developed into a decent starter with better coaching than he got with the Bills. Fitzpatrick might not have been particularly good, but he probably could have gotten the Bills into the playoffs with that 2014 squad ... he was better than Orton. Certainly last year's offense was good enough for the team to make the playoffs, but the defense just sucked. Edited November 1, 2017 by SoTier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 Obviously. You didn't just point to the Atlanta game as the defense helping them win. You said that's a loss if the defense doesn't score a TD because we won by 6. Serious question, did you watch? The Bills went into a conservative shell once they took the lead. Yes I watched. I dont like being super conservative. This past game, were they conservative? IMO no they were not and frankly I liked it a lot! They ran and passed. 💗d it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 The last time I looked, the coaching staff decides the type of offense a team runs, and most OCs call plays for their QBs. You're simply scapegoating Tyrod because you need something to complain about. Our OC called the 17th most passing attempts last season sooooo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 Yeah, I don't think it's that simple. Yeah, I don't think I'd ever convince you of anything and I don't care. But if I thought you were remotely open-minded on the subject, I'd go back and look at multiple years. I'll almost guarantee you that if you take the collective of head coaches in the NFL and put them simply in 2 camps (HCs with offensive backgrounds & HCs with defensive backgrounds) you'll find that the average of all pass attempts for all the teams with HCs with defensive backgrounds is consistently, if not ALWAYS, lower than the average of all pass attempts for all the teams with HCs with offensive backgrounds. You're too stubborn and reeling over Siemian being benched to listen to any reason right now, but on the off chance you are, it pretty much is that simple. Overall offensive minds come in as coaches wanting to rack up yards and score points on offense Defensive minds come in as coaches wanting to minimize points of the opposing offense while fielding a team that controls the clock and minimizes mistakes. See... simple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 (edited) Yeah, I don't think I'd ever convince you of anything and I don't care. But if I thought you were remotely open-minded on the subject, I'd go back and look at multiple years. I'll almost guarantee you that if you take the collective of head coaches in the NFL and put them simply in 2 camps (HCs with offensive backgrounds & HCs with defensive backgrounds) you'll find that the average of all pass attempts for all the teams with HCs with defensive backgrounds is consistently, if not ALWAYS, lower than the average of all pass attempts for all the teams with HCs with offensive backgrounds. You're too stubborn and reeling over Siemian being benched to listen to any reason right now, but on the off chance you are, it pretty much is that simple. Overall offensive minds come in as coaches wanting to rack up yards and score points on offense Defensive minds come in as coaches wanting to minimize points of the opposing offense while fielding a team that controls the clock and minimizes mistakes. See... simple You showed the difference between the averages was 2 attempts. 2 attempts isn't a big difference when the Bills have over 100 less attempts than the leading pass attempt team in 2017. They've played 8 and we've played 7 so if you extrapolate us out to 224, that's still almost 100 attempts difference through 8 games. A difference of 11 attempts per game. Like I said, I don't think it's that simple. Edited November 2, 2017 by jmc12290 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 Defensive coaches bring a defensive approach to their teams, it's that simple. So far this year all the teams with head coaches with offensive backgrounds are averaging 33 pass attempts per game. Teams with head coaches with defensive backgrounds are averaging 31 attempts per game. The top 3 teams in terms of pass attempts per game are teams with head coaches with offensive backgrounds... none of which include the hoodie or Brady. We have a defensive head coach. We will pass less than if we had an offensive head coach. Teams are averaging 34.3 pass attempts per game this season. The Bills are averaging 28 pass attempts per game. Only the Bears average less at 27.8 pass attempts. You're overstating the defensive background thing. Last season NFL teams averaged 35.7 pass attempts per game. Taylor and the Bills averaged an NFL-low 29.6 pass attempts. Dennison's offense averaged 35.6 pass attempts per game - 17th in the NFL. It's not a coincidence that every system Taylor plays in is at or very near the bottom of the league in throwing the football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punt75 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 Taylor will be the starter in 2018, even if they draft a QB. No reason to rush anyone into the job. Besides, we'll be drafting pretty late. I don't know why everyone thinks we need a QB that can throw for 350 yards per game and still lose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 You showed the difference between the averages was 2 attempts. 2 attempts isn't a big difference when the Bills have over 100 less attempts than the leading pass attempt team in 2017. They've played 8 and we've played 7 so if you extrapolate us out to 224, that's still almost 100 attempts difference through 8 games. A difference of 11 attempts per game. Like I said, I don't think it's that simple. 2 attempts is actually pretty huge when you consider that it's taking every single team in the NFL and splitting them into 2 camps. And that the defensive camp includes plenty of really good QBs, with the GOAT and a shoe-in future HOFer included in there. And once again, if I showed you the numbers for the last 15 years and it was CONSISTENTLY that the offensive HCs had teams that would pass more on average than defensive HCs, you might stubbornly drag your feet and piss and moan about the fact that it doesn't mean anything, but it most certainly would. A consistent difference in pass attempts, even if it's just 1 or 2 per game, pretty clearly sets an obvious and unavoidable trend (that I almost guarantee exists) that teams with defensive minded HCs pass the ball less than their offensive counterparts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 (edited) 2 attempts is actually pretty huge when you consider that it's taking every single team in the NFL and splitting them into 2 camps. And that the defensive camp includes plenty of really good QBs, with the GOAT and a shoe-in future HOFer included in there. And once again, if I showed you the numbers for the last 15 years and it was CONSISTENTLY that the offensive HCs had teams that would pass more on average than defensive HCs, you might stubbornly drag your feet and piss and moan about the fact that it doesn't mean anything, but it most certainly would. A consistent difference in pass attempts, even if it's just 1 or 2 per game, pretty clearly sets an obvious and unavoidable trend (that I almost guarantee exists) that teams with defensive minded HCs pass the ball less than their offensive counterparts. Do we have the "most" defensive HC in the NFL? Why are we dead last? Why do we pass 4-5 less attempts per game than the defensive HC average? Edited November 2, 2017 by jmc12290 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 Presently Hotrod is the Bills franchise leader in completion percentage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moshermw Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 I think i would need to see TT actually lose in the playoffs in that fashion before I stated it as fact This is the best answer to an un-answerable question. Well stated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 Presently Hotrod is the Bills franchise leader in completion percentage. Actually, Chris Hogan is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 I don't know why everyone thinks we need a QB that can throw for 350 yards per game and still lose? Teams with 300+ yard passers only lose if they don't have a defense imo...I don't think we would have to worry about that with McD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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