bisonbrigade Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 (edited) You can add as much sprinkles and frosting on top of a dog terd and call it a donut , but it's till a terd. Why? just for the #1 pick? Who is worth that price? I mean, you really wish that much ill will towards the Bills? To be inevitably compared to the '08 Lions? This team has talent and deserves more. A zero win season would be massively disruptive. You think it's hard to get talented players to come now? You'll see players we draft refuse to sign. No, a zero win season would be a disaster. Ok they can win one game against New England and go 1-15. Who is worth that price??? A Franchise QB is. Edited August 15, 2017 by bisonbrigade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr1 Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 they're paying linemen but don't want to pay WR and DB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 (edited) Great. I'm excited for a few more bad seasons ^^^ I don't think there's any question that's what we are in for... Just a matter of if McDermott/Beane make it through the bad seasons. What do you guys define as "a few"? 5? 10? 17? IMO, Beane is simply another henchman carrying out orders from Russ Brandon. The moves the Bills made this past off season and in training camp all stink of the very same philosphy of putting profitability far above winning that's been going on for the last 17 years. The team will never get significantly better when it constantly sheds its best young talent rather than pay them, which is exactly what it did again this year by letting Gilmore leave and shipping Watkins off. The Bills are back where they have been just about every year since 2002: scrambling to fill the holes created by not keeping the talent they already had and spinning in the media about how their fill-ins are "just as good" as the talented players who are gone. The only thing that's "new" -- well, sort of -- is that Beane is trying to spin these moves as something original: "building for the future while winning games". Right-o. Anybody want to buy a slightly used but recently rehabbed four lane bridge over Chautauqua Lake? I've got it for sale cheap. Edited August 15, 2017 by SoTier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 Sure is. They don't want to pay him the money he'll be looking for with a big year. This could've all been avoided had they picked up his option, but Bills will be Bills. The option I believe would have been around 12 million. Big money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarlinTheMagician Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 Goff will limit Sammy's production. Sammy may stay healthy - it is a contract year. But whether he does or doesn't Rams likely have to back up the truck to pay him basketball money. Matthews is an elite slot guy and if he shows out we should sign him. Zay on one side. Boldin will likely retire. True #1 not on roster yet, but he will be on the other side. Free agent or draft, there are safer bets than Sammy for the big $$$$. Folks need to get over the fact that he was our pride and joy. Now he ain't - I wish him well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 Sure is. They don't want to pay him the money he'll be looking for with a big year. This could've all been avoided had they picked up his option, but Bills will be Bills. The only thing the option would do is tie him up for another year at $13 mil. That's bad cap management if your intention is to keep the player. It's not about the money with Sammy. For whatever reason, they no longer wanted him on the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 ^^^ What do you guys define as "a few"? 5? 10? 17? IMO, Beane is simply another henchman carrying out orders from Russ Brandon. The moves the Bills made this past off season and in training camp all stink of the very same philosphy of putting profitability far above winning that's been going on for the last 17 years. The team will never get significantly better when it constantly sheds its best young talent rather than pay them, which is exactly what it did again this year by letting Gilmore leave and shipping Watkins off. The Bills are back where they have been just about every year since 2002: scrambling to fill the holes created by not keeping the talent they already had and spinning in the media about how their fill-ins are "just as good" as the talented players who are gone. The only thing that's "new" -- well, sort of -- is that Beane is trying to spin these moves as something original: "building for the future while winning games". Right-o. Anybody want to buy a slightly used but recently rehabbed four lane bridge over Chautauqua Lake? I've got it for sale cheap. I was going to finish reading your post until I read that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 This assumes Watkins is injured and misses half the 2017 season. Healthy he's going to dominate...assuming Goff can get him the ball. This says it all right imo. This might be the most none positive Bills post ever by Promo. If Promo thinks the Bills made a bad move, odds are, we made a bad move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 Pegula has never been shy to pay up for talent that his GMs recommend. McD and Beane have certainly not ignored the receiving position this offseason. So to me, it's silly to think that they dumped Watkins on whim. There must be something else behind the story. Like being a rookie GM and scared to death about screwing up your first big contract situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 Goff will limit Sammy's production. Sammy may stay healthy - it is a contract year. But whether he does or doesn't Rams likely have to back up the truck to pay him basketball money. Matthews is an elite slot guy and if he shows out we should sign him. Zay on one side. Boldin will likely retire. True #1 not on roster yet, but he will be on the other side. Free agent or draft, there are safer bets than Sammy for the big $$$$. Folks need to get over the fact that he was our pride and joy. Now he ain't - I wish him well. Goff was good enough to get draft #1 overall. Can we stop calling 23 yos who are trying to learn the hardest and most pressurized position in sports busts after one season. And if Sammy produces, the Rams will gladly pay him and he'd want to stay in LA. Beane has proven little for me to blindly trust him. The whole hiring process was minor league. His head coach picked him. I want to be wrong but this whole start has given me bad vibes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston's #1 Bills Fan Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 The only thing the option would do is tie him up for another year at $13 mil. That's bad cap management if your intention is to keep the player. It's not about the money with Sammy. For whatever reason, they no longer wanted him on the team. I think that the comments made from McCoach and Beaner indicate that he's not a team player. I also got the feeling that they didn't think his health was solid enough to commit to a long-term contract. So, get some value while you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 Like being a rookie GM and scared to death about screwing up your first big contract situation. Is this a serious response? Did Beane just leave from elementary school and Uncle Terry gave him a sweet job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 The only thing the option would do is tie him up for another year at $13 mil. That's bad cap management if your intention is to keep the player. It's not about the money with Sammy. For whatever reason, they no longer wanted him on the team. No that's what most teams do in order to keep the player. Take a look at how many guys that had their option picked up re signed eventually. The fifth year option is a plus for teams , not players. It keeps them with their drafting teams for another year at a reasonable cost. It gives the team more time to work out a long term cap friendly deal without having to make a long term commitment . It may not seem like much, but the option was a huge step for management in keeping the player, and would have kept SW here for two more seasons meaning nothing more would need to be done until late in 2018 season at the earliest. Is this a serious response? Did Beane just leave from elementary school and Uncle Terry gave him a sweet job? It was simply a case of look kind of bad now vs look like an idiot in 2018 if Sammy has a good season and they can't re sign him. As I said as soon as I heard Beane talk about " signability" . Peter King obviously though so too saying Beane would look " dumb" next spring if he lost Watkins. I think that the comments made from McCoach and Beaner indicate that he's not a team player. I also got the feeling that they didn't think his health was solid enough to commit to a long-term contract. So, get some value while you can. Yeah sure, if you buy the spin/ damage control being dished out by OBD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 No that's what most teams do in order to keep the player. Take a look at how many guys that had their option picked up re signed eventually. The fifth year option is a plus for teams , not players. It keeps them with their drafting teams for another year at a reasonable cost. It gives the team more time to work out a long term cap friendly deal without having to make a long term commitment . It may not seem like much, but the option was a huge step for management in keeping the player, and would have kept SW here for two more seasons meaning nothing more would need to be done until late in 2018 season at the earliest. The 5th year option is not a reasonable cost for a top 5 draft pick. The only thing it does is lock the player to the team for another year. If the team is dead set on keeping the player, they try to extend the contract as soon as possible. Players prefer the option to be picked up because they get paid a lot in yr 5, and then get the long term deal the year after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 This says it all right imo. This might be the most none positive Bills post ever by Promo. If Promo thinks the Bills made a bad move, odds are, we made a bad move. It's a bad move is as much as you took away an elite talent from your offense. The trade weakened the Bills in 2017. And if we got a knot in our stomachs when we learned of the trade, I can only imagine how the Bills players felt. They probably felt like a wild card was doable. Now it's a kick in the balls. Will we bounce back? That's up to Beane and McDermott. If they are smart and maybe a little lucky? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 Goff was good enough to get draft #1 overall. Can we stop calling 23 yos who are trying to learn the hardest and most pressurized position in sports busts after one season. And if Sammy produces, the Rams will gladly pay him and he'd want to stay in LA. Beane has proven little for me to blindly trust him. The whole hiring process was minor league. His head coach picked him. I want to be wrong but this whole start has given me bad vibes. Maybe part of Goff's problem was that he didn't have targets. It's hard for any QB, even the Bradys and Rodgers, to throw successfully when they don't have good receivers for whatever reason. IMO, the hiring process during the few years the Pegulas have owned the team has been laughable, for both HC and GM. IIRC, Ryan was hired after meeting with the Pegulas when there were other candidates who hadn't been interviewed. As for Beane, that he was selected after McDermott suggests that he's the same kind of figurehead as Marv Levy was back in 2009-2010 ... and the real "powers behind the throne" are McDermott and Russ Brandon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris heff Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 Do the Pats tank season after season after season after season after season after season after season after season after season after season ? No, they have Brady and they sign a couple of talented players away from the Bills. So they not only have their draft picks but also have the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you are with. Embrace the change fellas. Complaining about it won't do a damn bit of good. ShadyBillsFan, on 15 Aug 2017 - 12:23 PM, said: Do the Pats tank season after season after season after season after season after season after season after season after season after season ? No, they have Brady and they sign a couple of talented players away from the Bills. So they not only have their draft picks but also have the Bills. Think about that again - They started 3-0 w/o Brady last season. Beyond Tainted Tom Brady they manage to trade players, get draft picks and keep the O and D clicking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 The option I believe would have been around 12 million. Big money Yep huge money on a team with few stars and no big time QB. It's a pretty decent number for a #1 WR if you check salaries around the league and a tool to keep the player longer in order to negotiate a cap friendly long term deal. Maybe the Bills can put together a starting 22 on rookie deals. They could win the " cap Bowl". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 This assumes Watkins is injured and misses half the 2017 season. Healthy he's going to dominate...assuming Goff can get him the ball. I love Sammy, and still think this was a really bad trade. That said, I am not sure, even if Sammy starts 16 games, that he is going to put up the kind of numbers that his detractors will be impressed by. Goff is terrible...and he can't throw the long-ball. I have a feeling he is going to struggle there...if I were him, I'd be careful about signing any extensions, and take my chance on the open market. If he stays healthy, he'll get paid by somebody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you are with. Embrace the change fellas. Complaining about it won't do a damn bit of good. Think about that again - They started 3-0 w/o Brady last season. Beyond Tainted Tom Brady they manage to trade players, get draft picks and keep the O and D clicking. They actually manage to trade draft picks for players now. Ealy, Cooks, Gillislee, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 The loss of Watkins is not going to impact this team nearly as much as some posters seem to think. Having said that, we are in a hybrid tank mode at the moment, subject to go full tank in the future depending on how things go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris heff Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you are with. Embrace the change fellas. Complaining about it won't do a damn bit of good. Think about that again - They started 3-0 w/o Brady last season. Beyond Tainted Tom Brady they manage to trade players, get draft picks and keep the O and D clicking. So by that logic no need for a franchise QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 Yep huge money on a team with few stars and no big time QB. It's a pretty decent number for a #1 WR if you check salaries around the league and a tool to keep the player longer in order to negotiate a cap friendly long term deal. Maybe the Bills can put together a starting 22 on rookie deals. They could win the " cap Bowl".big money and you can throw whatever dumb qualifiers around it you want. And I didn't like the trade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 No matter the reason they are wrong, IMO. That 2nd round pick won't be close to the player Sammy is. They don't value Sammy enough to give him a big chunk of money. I think they are misjudging the type of player he is/will be. Why is it hard to believe that the decision may have been something other than on-field ability and cash? Very few people are disputing Sammy's talent. But does the fact that no player has spoken out negatively about the trade provide some indication that very few people at OBD are upset? We're going on day 5 after the trade. If this trade was as controversial in the locker room as it is on the forums, surely somebody would have sent an angry tweet or 20 by now. But there's nothing. Not by the players publicly, quietly, or even by the usual back channels through the agents to ESPN or PFT. Reminds me of the Richie story in Miami, where everyone immediately crucified him, except his teammates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 Why? just for the #1 pick? Who is worth that price? I mean, you really wish that much ill will towards the Bills? To be inevitably compared to the '08 Lions? This team has talent and deserves more. A zero win season would be massively disruptive. You think it's hard to get talented players to come now? You'll see players we draft refuse to sign. No, a zero win season would be a disaster. If it means getting a franchise QB, sign me up for 0-16. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 Maybe part of Goff's problem was that he didn't have targets. It's hard for any QB, even the Bradys and Rodgers, to throw successfully when they don't have good receivers for whatever reason. IMO, the hiring process during the few years the Pegulas have owned the team has been laughable, for both HC and GM. IIRC, Ryan was hired after meeting with the Pegulas when there were other candidates who hadn't been interviewed. As for Beane, that he was selected after McDermott suggests that he's the same kind of figurehead as Marv Levy was back in 2009-2010 ... and the real "powers behind the throne" are McDermott and Russ Brandon. Rex Ryan was hired after an exhaustive coaching search. I believe they had interviewed somewhere around 15 people before they eveninterviewed Rex. Then late in the process they decided to give Rex an interview, for the sake of being thorough, and the rest is history... As for Beane, I don't think he's just a figurehead. From all accounts, he did the Sammy and Darby trades all in his own. McDermott didn't even know about the trades until the night before. I believe that McDermott was just following the Andy Reid model with the Beane hiring. McD has tons of respect for Beane and really trusts his football acumen. Pegula wanted the entire building to be in lock step with their vision, was impressed by Beane and hired him. It wasn't just a figurehead hire. They immediately put him in charge of revamping the entire personnel and scouting staff. A figurehead doesn't do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 Didn't Peter King just say the veteran players liked Sammy? They didn't want to pay him. Simple as that, IMO. There's a huge difference between saying they like the player and going on a twitter tirade blasting management for gutting the roster, like people are doing here. If this was only about the money, I'd guess that more players would be outspoken because they know they won't get their money in Buffalo anyway. Of course that's 180 polar opposite of Pegula's fiscal management. Please tell me when he didn't pay top dollar to a player that he wanted to keep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 Where did I say this was Pegulas decision? Beane and McDermott don't value Watkins otherwise he'd still be here. They don't think he's worth the money he will command next year. And because players didn't go off on a tirade on Twitter there must be something to that? Your reaching hard. Do you think Pegulas let McDermott and lame duck Whaley make that critical decision on their own? Am I'm the one who's reaching? Pegulas were far more involved than Beane, because Beane wasn't on the team when they declined the 5th year option. That's when they probably decided to move on. That's why they've been far more active than usual to bring in quality veteran WR help. Look at the players' reaction when Chip gutted the Eagles roster. Who was the loudest mouth? What has that mouth said about the Watkins trade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarlinTheMagician Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 Our wide receiver group is better than what we had on the field last year. It would be tough for our secondary to be worse than last year. And we have picks. Stop ya whining. Anyone see Fitz pick us apart last year? Still hurts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tisker A Tasker Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 Welcome to Buffalo, Mr. Beane. The less you listen to the fans and media, the better off you'll be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 big money and you can throw whatever dumb qualifiers around it you want. And I didn't like the trade It's not that big in the current cap era. Just the reality of NFL salaries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 When you get rid of talent for draft picks = tanking. This guy is delusional I would agree IF we traded for ONLY draft picks and not guys who had success in the NFL previously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 Our wide receiver group is better than what we had on the field last year. It would be tough for our secondary to be worse than last year. And we have picks. Stop ya whining. Anyone see Fitz pick us apart last year? Still hurts. Yeah, all Bills fans should be happy with last years taxi squad of WRs as a baseline . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungmack Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 ^^^ What do you guys define as "a few"? 5? 10? 17? IMO, Beane is simply another henchman carrying out orders from Russ Brandon. The moves the Bills made this past off season and in training camp all stink of the very same philosphy of putting profitability far above winning that's been going on for the last 17 years. The team will never get significantly better when it constantly sheds its best young talent rather than pay them, which is exactly what it did again this year by letting Gilmore leave and shipping Watkins off. The Bills are back where they have been just about every year since 2002: scrambling to fill the holes created by not keeping the talent they already had and spinning in the media about how their fill-ins are "just as good" as the talented players who are gone. The only thing that's "new" -- well, sort of -- is that Beane is trying to spin these moves as something original: "building for the future while winning games". Right-o. Anybody want to buy a slightly used but recently rehabbed four lane bridge over Chautauqua Lake? I've got it for sale cheap. (See "Tin Foil" post above) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarlinTheMagician Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 17 years clearly left a mark, and no one can blame anyone for that. These were the right moves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 Direct Link to the PFT Live Interview: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/08/15/brandon-beane-doesnt-want-to-hear-that-the-bills-are-tanking/ I disagree with the "not contending" part. We might. We won 7 games last year with a coach that didn't even know how many men to put on the field. The Fish made the playoffs last year after a dreadful season with a rookie HC. I don't see why it's out of the realm of possibility we can do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 I disagree with the "not contending" part. We might. We won 7 games last year with a coach that didn't even know how many men to put on the field. The Fish made the playoffs last year after a dreadful season with a rookie HC. I don't see why it's out of the realm of possibility we can do that. It's not out of the realm of possibility ( although that is a big qualifier as many things are possible in an NFL season). It's not likely the Bills can win enough ga,es against the right teams to qualify , however. That said, this isn't a tank. It's more of a half step. A tank would mean Peterman at QB, Shady dealt and aging vets cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 He wasn't going to resign for what the Bills were going to offer. Please tell us how much the Bills were going to offer and what Sammy's walk away price is? Evidently you know. Why is it so important that we give up a years production to get "something" for Sammy? We got nothing for Woods, Gillislee, Hogan, Fitz, Robey, Gilnore, Fred, Byrd, Nigel, Mario ... That's what happens most of the time. Deal with it. You don't know what was going to happen and they could have franchised, re-signed, or traded him after the season. The idea that people are expressing opposition to the trade because they own Sammy Jerseys is ludicrous. I don't own a Sammy jersey and I HATE the trade. Besids, it's still a Bills jersey. Wear it with pride as I do my EJ, Mario, Rob Johnson, and Flutie jerseys. Go BILLS !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 It's not that big in the current cap era. Just the reality of NFL salaries. Big money. Keep trying to deflect though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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