Bills' OC: Tyrod Taylor 'can't wait for a route to open up

[BuffaloHokie13]

And Matt Barkley versus Jordan Howard last year?

 

Matt Barkley had less total attempts than Jordan Howard last year. He was asked to do less and had less of an overall impact on their offense for the season as a whole. Barkley also only started 6 games last year, so a bit of a special circumstance. If you want to know any others you can look them up yourself though. I am consistent in my message and I have yet to see any response that indicates otherwise other than Commonsense looking at positional values and applying rates and qualifiers which seems to me like a way to conform the data to what you want, but that's just my opinion on it.

[Maury Ballstein]

Same tired arguements from the same people who are not gonna come off their stance

 

Thursday cannot come soon enough

It's preseason and it'll only get louder. We got a guy bragging about practice Td's running around hea.

[JM2009]

Same tired arguements from the same people who are not gonna come off their stance

 

Thursday cannot come soon enough

Pre season games mean nothing. Just hope for no injuries. It's the Jets game where it begins.

[grb]

It really isn't anticipation. It's recognition and reaction, and those are athletic skills.

 

 

Reading Dennison's comments which started this farrago, that was my reaction : He was talking about decisiveness and quick decisions rather than the infamous "throw with anticipation". The two may be related but they're not the same thing. Of course Taylor could improve in both, so maybe it's a moot point.

[Royale with Cheese]

After all this arguing, has it been determined who has the biggest penis in this thread?

[Meathead]

He may attempt to get rid of the ball sooner, but he's been delivering the ball late his whole career. The great qbs like Brady & Rodgers throw a man open. I've heard Peterman also has this ability. This will be TT's final chance to change a very bad habit. We'll see?

 

right

 

which is why dennison is so blunt in his characterization

 

so we shouldnt be surprised that dennison feels that way. im just a little surprised that he was so obvious and outspoken about it

 

he might as well have said "as any fan could tell you, tyrod doesnt anticipate receivers coming open very well. we've told him until we are blue in the face. now its up to him, he either does it or we're looking for a new qb"

 

its just surprising that dennison just comes right out with it like he did this early in camp. its almost like hes already growing frustrated trying to get tyrod to do it

[BuffaloHokie13]

After all this arguing, has it been determined who has the biggest penis in this thread?

it's from the other Tyrod thread, but I'm guessing this guy

 

I wish for a 12" pianist.

[BringBackOrton]

 

Matt Barkley had less total attempts than Jordan Howard last year. He was asked to do less and had less of an overall impact on their offense for the season as a whole. Barkley also only started 6 games last year, so a bit of a special circumstance. If you want to know any others you can look them up yourself though. I am consistent in my message and I have yet to see any response that indicates otherwise other than Commonsense looking at positional values and applying rates and qualifiers which seems to me like a way to conform the data to what you want, but that's just my opinion on it.

I guess if a QB touches the ball more than an RB, you believe they had more of an impact on the offense?

 

I think that's kind of a narrow-minded argument. Just IMO.

 

Especially when it's argued consistently how much of an impact TT has when he's not touching the ball. Just seems a little unbalanced.

Edited August 8, 2017 by jmc12290

[starrymessenger]

Good to hear a coach confirm what many of us here already observed... It's one of a few spots TT leaves his throat open for a kid like Peterman... Can't wait 'til' Thursday...

I think there is a real chance Tyrod does not start after the break. If he can't do what the OC and others have asked, and there is no reason to think that he can, I just don't think this staff will stick with him. They have no committment to him and they may want to see what Peterman can do i.e. ideally as a starter/placeholder after they get their guy next year. The QB needs to have good chemistry with his receivers to run a WC offence variant and for Tyrod thats a tall order, especially when having to deal with NFL corners, safeties and outside LBs. It just isn't easy to do, even if your name is Brady or Manning.

If it can be learned I hope Tyrod figures it out. If he does, this O can make some noise.

[Cripple Creek]

 

right

 

which is why dennison is so blunt in his characterization

 

so we shouldnt be surprised that dennison feels that way. im just a little surprised that he was so obvious and outspoken about it

 

he might as well have said "as any fan could tell you, tyrod doesnt anticipate receivers coming open very well. we've told him until we are blue in the face. now its up to him, he either does it or we're looking for a new qb"

 

its just surprising that dennison just comes right out with it like he did this early in camp. its almost like hes already growing frustrated trying to get tyrod to do it

He didn't say anything different from what's been written here, you're right though, he was pretty blunt about it. That doesn't bother me a bit. I don't think it will have an appreciable effect, but, you never know.

 

 

What coach/QB combination had a timer during training camp a few years back? Was that JP? Bledsoe? I honestly can't remember.

[Captain Murica]

After all this arguing, has it been determined who has the biggest penis in this thread?

Did you just assume all the Anti-Tyrod folks gender?

 

 

 

I kid.

[26CornerBlitz]

RICK DENNISON: "WE'RE CATCHING ON" (10:16)

 

People should take a listen to this for context.

[MAJBobby]

There is no "option". There is just year 2 of a 2 year deal that pays him (I think) $18m in 2018. Even as someone who believes there is next to no chance he is long term answer I think if he performs the same again then you keep him for that year draft his replacement in the 1st and let that guy sit and learn for a few weeks before throwing him in. If the rookie decisively beats Tyrod out in camp - great... you know he has beaten out a legit NFL starter not a bloke who can't even stand up on a mat. But unless Tyrod wows me in 2017 and proves beyond doubt to be a franchise guy then 2018 should be his 4th and final season on the Bills.

Sure there is a 6M bonus due the third day of new league year. That is the option. Dont pay it save 10M in cap space. Pay it and have TT at an 18M cap hit (and some change)

[Shaw66]

Reading Dennison's comments which started this farrago, that was my reaction : He was talking about decisiveness and quick decisions rather than the infamous "throw with anticipation". The two may be related but they're not the same thing. Of course Taylor could improve in both, so maybe it's a moot point.

I think they're different. I think a lot of the west coast throws are read and react, which any good athlete can learn. The anticipation throws that I think most people talk about are longer routes where the qb has to make a judgment about whether a receiver will get open. That's different.

 

People talk about Brady like he's God. I think a lot of his throws are read and react. He sees the defense, takes the snap, makes one read and throws. The read is something like did the LB drop or not? Is the safety poaching? Depending on what he sees he throws it. He doesn't wait to see if the guy is going to open up because he knows if the LB dropped the guy will be open.

[MAJBobby]

No other NFL qbs throw for TDs in garbage time or against bad teams--only Tyrod.

Were did i say that. I said Points run up against bad teams ie how many we hang against a bad San Fran team?

 

33 against Bad AZ

30 against Bad Rams

45 against Bad San Fran

33 against Bad Cle

 

So 141 of Bills 399 against 4 teams.

Leaving 21.5 ppg against remaining 12 teams.

 

So yes scoring was run up against bad teams (drops even more if you take out Defensive scores) both on the run up against bad teams and overall

Edited August 8, 2017 by MAJBobby

[Foxx]

 

The OC's biggest takeaway so far? Taylor needs to work on anticipating where the receiver is supposed to be open and delivering to that spot rather than waiting for him to gain separation.

 

"He understands what we want done," Dennison said Monday, before the Bills' 10th practice of training camp at St. John Fisher College. "It's just keeping him on the same page, listening to his feet, getting the ball out on time. That's the biggest thing for (us) working on it.

 

"He's bought into it. He knows what he needs to do, he knows that the ball will get out. He knows where everybody is, that's the biggest thing for me. Distribution and (when) his feet tell him to move on, he's got to move on. He can't wait for a route to open up.

http://buffalonews.com/2017/08/07/bills-oc-tyrod-taylor-cant-wait-route-open/

 

rut roh

 

this cant be the first time tyrod has heard this. like i would expect hes heard it for the last decade at least. once he got to the pros the only reason they wouldnt say it is bc they got tired of repeating it all the time

 

ive always just assumed that he was weak at that and would have to be productive in other ways cough running cough, not turning the ball over, etc. of course that means he would always be a middling qb in the nfl, but middling can make a living and middling is better than suck. once in a while middling even breaks through and becomes a stud ala rich gannon, but its kinda rare

 

dennison hammering on it so bluntly now means sink or swim son. sink or swim. they are telling tyrod now or never, and if its never you aint gonna be here for long

 

its a bit stunning in its public frankness, tbh. you dont often see that direct of pressure aired in the media for a standing starting qb so its pretty obvious dennisions clicker has run out of notches on this issue with tyrod. ty knows what denny wants. the whole world knows what denny wants. do it or dun dun duuuun

 

what's the over/under on when Peterman starts? game 8?

[26CornerBlitz]

what's the over/under on when Peterman starts? game 8?

 

Peterman will start zero games this season because unless Tyrod is injured. He's TJ Yates with less experience.

[Foxx]

I disagree that this is not an offense suited to Taylor. I think it's likely to be perfect for him.

 

First, this offense requires a simple read and throw. It's decision making that a good athlete like Taylor can learn. Look for a key; if you see it, throw it. It really isn't anticipation. It's recognition and reaction, and those are athletic skills.

 

Second, it's an offense based on stretch runs to the outside, and that's an offense that leads to moving pockets and rollouts. Those are strengths for Taylor.

 

Third, the stretch runs, with zone blocking, also fit his running style.

 

I think people will be surprised at how well Taylor runs the offense.

lol. the WCO is all about read and react. he hasn't been able to learn how to anticipate in his 7 years since being out of college. what in heavens name makes anyone think he is suddenly going to learn how to do this?

 

anticipation----- recognition and reaction... tomato/tomatoe, same same. but for arguments sake, i'll take what the OC chooses to call it over a BB jockey any day of the week.

Edited August 8, 2017 by Foxx

[NoSaint]

I saw a lot of chatter about throwing with anticipation but in the couple pages I read I didn't see a ton on the half of the quote about moving through his progressions on time. Did we cover that too?

[starrymessenger]

Peterman will start zero games this season because unless Tyrod is injured. He's TJ Yates with less experience.

26 I've filed this one away for future reference.

[26CornerBlitz]

26 I've filed this one away for future reference.

 

Please do. I'd love to be wrong as hell BTW.

[Meathead]

what's the over/under on when Peterman starts? game 8?

 

as soon as it becomes obvious the playoffs are out of reach. so then probably game five

 

lol. for a real over/under id say game fifteen. most teams are still mathematically alive with two to play. roster wise the bills are a .500 team so they will probably torture us on the fringe all season. only to rip our hearts out once again

 

see you there

[#34fan]

 

Peterman will start zero games this season because unless Tyrod is injured. He's TJ Yates with less experience.

 

Ouch! That's kind of a f__ed-up label to just slap on the kid... I personally think he's he's got bigger cajones than Yates, and has stronger leadership qualities.... Let's see how tall he stands in pre-seaze before calling him another T.J. Yates, smh...sheesh..

[26CornerBlitz]

 

Ouch! That's kind of a f__ed-up label to just slap on the kid... I personally think he's he's got bigger cajones than Yates, and has stronger leadership qualities.... Let's see how tall he stands in pre-seaze before calling him another T.J. Yates, smh...sheesh..

 

I see a career backup QB in Peterman.

He should be happy if he develops into a Matt Moore.

 

@BuffRumblings

According to the #Bills OC, the team has two solid backups behind Tyrod.

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2017/8/8/16107730/buffalo-bills-rick-dennison-compares-nate-peterman-to-tj-yates-rick-dennison

Edited August 8, 2017 by 26CornerBlitz

[mannc]

Were did i say that. I said Points run up against bad teams ie how many we hang against a bad San Fran team?

 

33 against Bad AZ

30 against Bad Rams

45 against Bad San Fran

33 against Bad Cle

 

So 141 of Bills 399 against 4 teams.

Leaving 21.5 ppg against remaining 12 teams.

 

So yes scoring was run up against bad teams (drops even more if you take out Defensive scores) both on the run up against bad teams and overall

Newsflash: Bad teams (with bad defenses) tend to give up more points and yards than good teams do, so it's not too surprising (or a strike against him) that TT put up a disproportionate number of points against those teams. I am guessing Tyrod was not the only QB to run up points against them (although AZ certainly did not have a bad defense).

[MAJBobby]

Newsflash: Bad teams (with bad defenses) tend to give up more points and yards than good teams do, so it's not too surprising (or a strike against him) that TT put up a disproportionate number of points against those teams. I am guessing Tyrod was not the only QB to run up points against them (although AZ certainly did not have a bad defense).

Again TT was not part of this. I am just saying people want to point to how good our scoring offense is. Well there are alot of points agains bad teams, not even counting the garbage time points when game is out of reach. So again you can hang your hat on that stat but there are shown reasons to take it as a grain of salt as well.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

 

 

....so the $64,000 question is his anticipation deficiency correctable/repairable and trainable?...if so, is Dennison the right guy because I don't see too many more chances league wide for the kid to get THIS....he is certainly NOT to only NFL QB to have this weakness....Steve Young (yup, HIM; he would know IMO) said it best with, "the reason why more collegiate QB's fail versus succeed is because of the speed and complexity of the game at the NFL level"....not sure how you refute that.............

Can't refute it. and maybe you've hit on the nuance.

 

Perhaps..

TT can throw with anticipation on certain slowly developing routes. But the short and medium routes, that happen in 1-2 seconds, develop so quickly some/him can't process at the speed necessary to be effective at the NFL level.

 

I suspect constant reps can help, even if you never get all the routes combos and timing worked out, to master a subset. Which may be the development the OC eludes to.

 

Instead of feeling it, you just execute the script you've rehearsed

[Maury Ballstein]

what's the over/under on when Peterman starts? game 8?

Week 12 is my guess.

[re enlightener]

 

The OC's biggest takeaway so far? Taylor needs to work on anticipating where the receiver is supposed to be open and delivering to that spot rather than waiting for him to gain separation.

nice post, i think its so refreshing when a new coach does this, as opposed to a new qb coming and being treated like a king ala bledsoe when he came here and started to suck as his fundamentals deteriorated and the coaches praised and prayed at candlelight vigils and goat sacrifices hoping he would pull them through. Bledsoe was good when parcells stood behind him and MADE him throw the ball on time. Here tightwad will be held to the fire to throw the ball over the middle with anticipation, something he only started to do at the end of last season.

[JaCrispy]

Can't refute it. and maybe you've hit on the nuance.

 

Perhaps..

TT can throw with anticipation on certain slowly developing routes. But the short and medium routes, that happen in 1-2 seconds, develop so quickly some/him can't process at the speed necessary to be effective at the NFL level.

 

I suspect constant reps can help, even if you never get all the routes combos and timing worked out, to master a subset. Which may be the development the OC eludes to.

 

Instead of feeling it, you just execute the script you've rehearsed

...or maybe he can't see over the line fast enough, as he is dropping back...perhaps he needs that extra time to get to a point where he can see over the 6 foot 3 guys in front of him...Brady is 6 foot 4 so he doesn't need to wait- he can see the whole field right when he snaps the ball.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

...or maybe he can't see over the line fast enough, as he is dropping back...perhaps he needs that extra time to get to a point where he can see over the 6 foot 3 guys in front of him...Brady is 6 foot 4 so he doesn't need to wait- he can see the whole field right when he snaps the ball.

Fair.. if that's the issue, it's a little more difficult to "develop". Although maybe this playaction with run blocking scheme will make that less relevant?

[JaCrispy]

Fair.. if that's the issue, it's a little more difficult to "develop". Although maybe this playaction with run blocking scheme will make that less relevant?

maybe so...either way, it is all entertaining speculation til showtime...One thing I can't stop thinking about though is that even if Tyrod has a good season, I would hate to see the Bills miss out on such a good crop of QB prospects next year.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

Can't refute it. and maybe you've hit on the nuance.

 

Perhaps..

TT can throw with anticipation on certain slowly developing routes. But the short and medium routes, that happen in 1-2 seconds, develop so quickly some/him can't process at the speed necessary to be effective at the NFL level.

 

I suspect constant reps can help, even if you never get all the routes combos and timing worked out, to master a subset. Which may be the development the OC eludes to.

 

Instead of feeling it, you just execute the script you've rehearsed

 

...precisely.......forget the feeling and just DO IT......the feeling is the inhibiting factor......will be plenty of misses in spot throws./trust, but repetition is the only way. tp grow any type of confidence and success IMO...if TT can't do it under Dennison's tutelage, he'll be a career backup elsewhere potentially because of his wheels...........

[Perk71]

PETERMAN!!

[Figster]

...or maybe he can't see over the line fast enough, as he is dropping back...perhaps he needs that extra time to get to a point where he can see over the 6 foot 3 guys in front of him...Brady is 6 foot 4 so he doesn't need to wait- he can see the whole field right when he snaps the ball.

Great observation/assessment in my humble opinion Ja , and one I happen to share.

[JaCrispy]

PETERMAN!!

Gotta admit, I too, am excited to see him in action

[Scott7975]

Lol.

 

Wentz is light years beyond TT.

 

The numbers didn't reflect it quite yet, but he's doing things in the huddle and in the game that TT will never be able to do. Just like Peyton put up a few bad season's statistically...Wentz is out there figuring out what he can and can't get away with.

 

TT plays safe and easy football that looks good on the stat sheet, but doesn't get the results when it's needed.

 

 

 

Wentz completed 22 of 42 passing attempts for 170 yards with one interception, one sack and one rushing touchdown.

According to Pro Football Focus, Wentz rated as the worst quarterback in the NFL:

Quarterback: Carson Wentz, Philadelphia Eagles, 34.3

It was a tough week for the Eagles' rookie quarterback, who struggled all over the field. Wentz completed just 2-of-11 passes farther than 10 yards downfield, and had an interception, as well. When under pressure, Wentz completed 4-of-11 attempts for just 26 yards and the aforementioned pick.

Sunday marked the sixth time this season that Wentz failed to complete 60 percent of his passes

 

Look man, its fine to think that Wentz might turn into a fine QB someday. He had a great start to his season and then fizzled mightly. Saying crap like he is light years beyond Taylor right now is ridiculous and delusional. He had a great couple games and then sucked the rest of the season.

 

If we drafted Wentz and he had games like that you would already have long been off the Wentz wagon. Its just that you hate Tyrod so much that any other QB out there is a great find to you. Especially one that played in a pro system in college so was hyped up.

Edited August 9, 2017 by Scott7975

[r00tabaga]

Can someone link the thread for me where Bills fans post? A lot of haters and the season hasn't even started.

[26CornerBlitz]

Can someone link the thread for me where Bills fans post? A lot of haters and the season hasn't even started.

 

Don't you mean "realists"?

[Shaw66]

People should take a listen to this for context.

Right. I think people are jumping to conclusion here. I'm not sure he's saying this is a problem. It's the next step after learning the plays - learning when throw it.