Cardale Jones is ranked 15th best backup QB in the NFL!!

[mannc]

Cardale Jones over Mahomes or Trubisky is an interesting take. But also a terrible one.

Agreed that there is no real reason to rank Jones over Mahomes or Trubisky at this point, but on the other hand, none of them have logged any real NFL playing time, so there's not much reason to prefer them to Cardale either right now.

[Kirby Jackson]

Cardale is playing in a golf outing that I'm attending on the 19th.

 

I will ask him about his newfound prominence.

LAMP

Agreed that there is no real reason to rank Jones over Mahomes or Trubisky at this point, but on the other hand, none of them have logged any real NFL playing time, so there's not much reason to prefer them to Cardale either right now.

Which is why this whole list is weird to begin with. Anyone that thinks Geno Smith is better than Fitz is an idiot. That's why Fitz played ahead of Geno Smith. It would be interesting to see a list ranking all QBs on the roster broken out by R-3 NFL seasons (including this year) and over 3 NFL seasons. The young guys are a total crapshoot anyways. How do we know what they can do if they've never played? The older guys have game experience and at worst, preseason resumes that tell a clearer story.

[Blokestradamus]

LAMP

 

Literally only just realised what LAMP means. Man, I'm a bit thick

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Whaley made a public proclamation about EJ being one among the best #2s.

 

 

But on this board , there were numerous vocal EJ supporters. Despite the empirical evidence on the playing field and hospitality tent, support didn't really die down till final game he played against Jets. There is still belief that a fresh start with another team will finally show us the trrue EJ

 

I hear you on the crazed supporters, but "supporter" and "#2 backup in the league" are not the same thing

Likewise Whaley "top third of backups" and "#2 backup" not same thing

I think somebody's mom made this list.

 

No dissing of moms

[DallasBillsFan1]

I hear Jeff George is still keeping the arm warm.

[CanadianFan]

While we're on the subject, why don't we look at Cardale's strengths and weaknesses.

 

Strengths:

(PFF):

• Cannon for an arm. Can make tight-windowed throws that other quarterbacks would not even attempt
• Will cycle through reads at times and find the open man
• Shows touch, even if accuracy is inconsistent
• Keeps his eyes downfield when maneuvering around the pocket. Looking to pass and make a big play
• Flashes excellent accuracy on 1-5 yard passes, hit receivers in stride more than most
• Big body and athleticism make him difficult to tackle in our out of the pocket. Forced 37 missed tackles on 127 carries each of the last two years

Bleacher Report:

• When asked to rip a deep ball, Jones shows remarkable placement and an understanding of timing and space. He excels at leading receivers down the field on throws of 20-plus yards and can drop the ball over the defense and into a bucket. His touch, arc and timing on deep passes is a sight to see.

Canadian Fan:

• shows Poise and doesn't shy from big moments. Shines in big games. This is an intangible often overlooked by these reports.

 

 

Weaknesses:

 

PFF: Accuracy is all over the place, among the worst in the class at the most important ranges: six through 30 yards

 

Bleacher Report: accuracy and decision-making. accuracy issues plaguing Jones can be explained by his mechanics. He doesn't square his feet, hips and shoulders when throwing from the pocket and too often trusts his arm to do the work his body could be doing for him to generate velocity. Jones' left hip (his back foot) is often turned away from the target and doesn't allow for a full torquing of his core when he throws.

 

Given his struggles reading coverages on slants and crossing routes, Jones needs a crash course in QB 101.

 

Basically, accuracy has to do with mechanics, and that equals COACHING. It can be taught, and fixed. He has to DO THE WORK in the off-season. Has he done enough this past off season?

Edited June 9, 2017 by CanadianFan

[jeffismagic]

While we're on the subject, why don't we look at Cardale's strengths and weaknesses.

 

Strengths:

(PFF):

• Cannon for an arm. Can make tight-windowed throws that other quarterbacks would not even attempt
• Will cycle through reads at times and find the open man
• Shows touch, even if accuracy is inconsistent
• Keeps his eyes downfield when maneuvering around the pocket. Looking to pass and make a big play
• Flashes excellent accuracy on 1-5 yard passes, hit receivers in stride more than most
• Big body and athleticism make him difficult to tackle in our out of the pocket. Forced 37 missed tackles on 127 carries each of the last two years

Bleacher Report:

• When asked to rip a deep ball, Jones shows remarkable placement and an understanding of timing and space. He excels at leading receivers down the field on throws of 20-plus yards and can drop the ball over the defense and into a bucket. His touch, arc and timing on deep passes is a sight to see.

Canadian Fan:

• shows Poise and doesn't shy from big moments. Shines in big games. This is an intangible often overlooked by these reports.

 

 

Weaknesses:

 

PFF: Accuracy is all over the place, among the worst in the class at the most important ranges: six through 30 yards

 

Bleacher Report: accuracy and decision-making. accuracy issues plaguing Jones can be explained by his mechanics. He doesn't square his feet, hips and shoulders when throwing from the pocket and too often trusts his arm to do the work his body could be doing for him to generate velocity. Jones' left hip (his back foot) is often turned away from the target and doesn't allow for a full torquing of his core when he throws.

 

Given his struggles reading coverages on slants and crossing routes, Jones needs a crash course in QB 101.

 

Basically, accuracy has to do with mechanics, and that equals COACHING. It can be taught, and fixed. He has to DO THE WORK in the off-season. Has he done enough this past off season?

 

Cardale Jones throws the ball differently every time. I doubt this inconsistency will be fixed.

[C.Biscuit97]

 

He took a broken down Matt Schaub to Baltimore as a backup because he could run his system..... Dennison likes that vet guy who knows the scheme. I can see McDermott and Beane being where you are Kirby, very easily, the question is whether Dennison has sufficient influence to change that. I very strongly suspect he will want Yates on the 53.

Matt Schaub was a former multi time 4,000 yard passer. Yates is a guy with worse career numbers than EJ.

 

Yates offers nothing and it is really hard to picture either young guys being that much worse than him. And as Kirby said, there are a ton of TJ Yates looking for jobs. He is easily replaceable.

[prissythecat]

 

I hear you on the crazed supporters, but "supporter" and "#2 backup in the league" are not the same thing

Likewise Whaley "top third of backups" and "#2 backup" not same thing

 

 

 

 

I think this was the relevant article with the Whaley quote -> http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/05/04/bills-say-theyre-very-comfortable-with-manuel-as-their-backup/

 

"....Doug Whaley says he’s “very comfortable” with Manuel, adding that Manuel is one of the league’s top backup quarterbacks..."

[CommonCents]

 

Literally only just realised what LAMP means. Man, I'm a bit thick

I had to google it recently. Don't feel bad.

[Real McClappy]

This entire list is a joke like many others here have said.

[3rdand12]

 

Literally only just realised what LAMP means. Man, I'm a bit thick

why what does it mean?

I own thick, Son

[timekills17]

why what does it mean?

I own thick, Son

Linux, Apache, MySQL, PHP

 

Although in this context, its probably " 'Look At Me' Post".

[3rdand12]

I had to google it recently. Don't feel bad.

whats google ?

Linux, Apache, MySQL, PHP

 

Although in this context, its probably " 'Look At Me' Post".

Thanks for the assist.

always grateful.

You an IT guy ?

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

...published articles last year said he was struggling to run the Scout Team......so where does #15 come from, the Russian judge??............

[timekills17]

whats google ?

Thanks for the assist.

always grateful.

You an IT guy ?

 

I dabble.

I'm better with a rifle though.

[3rdand12]

 

I dabble.

I'm better with a rifle though.

i will remind to be polite then.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

Jeffismagic on the other side of the monitor after reading this

content://media/external/file/57209

 

...so who cares anyway?.....debate happens with mutual respect on both sides so noted......sorry but his omnipotence and arrogance pervades anything he posts.......if he is the TBD standard. good Lord this place is in trouble..................

[The Wiz]

Linux, Apache, MySQL, PHP

 

Although in this context, its probably " 'Look At Me' Post".

Always my first thought when I see LAMP.

 

I'm any IT guy though.

[DriveFor1Outta5]

Overall a bad list, but all the Fitz fanboys need to get over his ranking. Fitz isn't good, never has been. Geno Smith shouldn't be ranked ahead of him, but let's be honest. Ideally you don't really want to see either guy on the field as a starter.

Edited June 10, 2017 by DriveFor1Outta5

[wppete]

This will be our QB depth next year:

 

1. Tyrod Taylor

2. Cardale Jones

3. Nathan Peterman

 

TJ Yates will be released

[jeffismagic]

This will be our QB depth next year:

1. Tyrod Taylor

2. Cardale Jones

3. Nathan Peterman

TJ Yates will be released

I doubt Cardale will be kept. Sean seems to delight in cutting players he did not draft.

[bigK14094]

How come EJ is not on this list? Wasn't he proclaimed as best #2 in NFL last season.

connor cook is #2 in Raiderland. EJ is #3...........and fading.

This will be our QB depth next year:

 

1. Tyrod Taylor

2. Cardale Jones

3. Nathan Peterman

 

TJ Yates will be released

Cardale doesn't have the head to play at the pro level.........immature approach to business.......

[H2o]

I doubt Cardale will be kept. Sean seems to delight in cutting players he did not draft.

If that were his sole criteria for cuts this team would look a lot different than it does right now.

[BringBackOrton]

Agreed that there is no real reason to rank Jones over Mahomes or Trubisky at this point, but on the other hand, none of them have logged any real NFL playing time, so there's not much reason to prefer them to Cardale either right now.

Well, no. Mahomes and Trubisky were top 10 picks. Cardale was taken in the bottom of the 4th. There's certainly a compelling reason to prefer the better prospects.

[Kirby Jackson]

Well, no. Mahomes and Trubisky were top 10 picks. Cardale was taken in the bottom of the 4th. There's certainly a compelling reason to prefer the better prospects.

A year earlier though Cardale was a top 10 pick. His raw talent is at least on par with those guys. The consistency isn't there buts it's not crazy to think that someone prefers his upside. We've still never seen him lose a game.

 

I'm not saying that it's right or wrong but it's not that they are better talents.

Edited June 10, 2017 by Kirby Jackson

[Punching Bag]

Not this guy?? Second round baby!

 

@salsports

"In the three media-open OTAs, Hackenberg hit reporters with passes twice."

http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2017/06/assessing_christian_hackenbergs_play_after_jets_ot.html?utm_content=buffer72207&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer#incart_river_index

 

@miketanier

So if a quarterback hits a reporter during OTAs, but he does it while standing tall in the pocket, does that make him a quality backup?

 

We need to teach QBs to throw at the three stooges from the Buffalo News.

I can't wait to play the Jets this year.

 

You have to unless you want to play Madden.

[Punching Bag]

I've said it before & I'll say it again: nobody knows backup QBs like Neil Greenberg of the Washington Post.

So you are doubling down or reminding us WHY not to give any credit to list, which?

 

Agree it's a terrible list. How is AJ McCarron worse than Brandon Weeden?

It truly is. Brandon Weeden is listed under "useful stand ins" at 5th overall. I doubt the person who made the list has ever watched a football game.

 

Exactly. Inflated rookie grades in some cases for potential/

 

I rue the day they invented those ridiculous URL shorteners.

First, you have no idea what site you're actually being directed to - could be malwareupyobutt.com for all you know.

Second, most workplaces don't allow them to be followed, for reason #1 above.

Useless.

 

Have same kind of issue at work. Only reason why I see for it is so poster can get some sort of kickback.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I don't think that the list is horrible but it's pretty subjective. Fitz is WAY too low but in general it's tough to have a real list.

 

If I read the list's methodology correctly, it's a bastard mixture of subjective and objective.

 

For players with experience in the NFL, they look at that experience with no adjustment for how deep the experience goes or weighting for recent

For players without experience in the NFL, they look at an "average" figure for rookies with some mysterious "adjustment"

 

That's why you have old warhorses like Schaub, who genuinely had some good seasons in the NFL until something "broke" in him but who is highly tenuous to be able to get something done now, ranked above Anderson and Cook; why you have guys like Fitzpatrick, who actually has a good record of being able to come in as a backup and engineer a comeback and win a game but who has repeatedly stunk up the place as an established starter, listed as "clipboard holder"; and why you have guys who have never played a game in the NFL listed higher than guys who have shown they can get it done.

 

Silly list.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

I doubt Cardale will be kept. Sean seems to delight in cutting players he did not draft.

....so his ONE AND ONLY draft makes a trend as a rookie HC?.......next time you have a thought, spare us and save it....Jesus......

[DriveFor1Outta5]

 

If I read the list's methodology correctly, it's a bastard mixture of subjective and objective.

 

For players with experience in the NFL, they look at that experience with no adjustment for how deep the experience goes or weighting for recent

For players without experience in the NFL, they look at an "average" figure for rookies with some mysterious "adjustment"

 

That's why you have old warhorses like Schaub, who genuinely had some good seasons in the NFL until something "broke" in him but who is highly tenuous to be able to get something done now, ranked above Anderson and Cook; why you have guys like Fitzpatrick, who actually has a good record of being able to come in as a backup and engineer a comeback and win a game but who has repeatedly stunk up the place as an established starter, listed as "clipboard holder"; and why you have guys who have never played a game in the NFL listed higher than guys who have shown they can get it done.

 

Silly list.

I agree that these types of list are silly. In reality the backup QB position is weak across the league. Backup QB's in a starter role generally equal losses. Even if the list were better composed, I feel that ranking backup QB's is a waste of time.

I doubt Cardale will be kept. Sean seems to delight in cutting players he did not draft.

It will also be completely justifiable after Cardale stinks up the joint this preseason. I don't blame McD for wanting his own guys. Who doesn't want to have ownership over their own success or failure? It's not as if anyone on the roster he inherited had ever won anything.

This will be our QB depth next year:

 

1. Tyrod Taylor

2. Cardale Jones

3. Nathan Peterman

 

TJ Yates will be released

I'm thinking this

1. Tyrod Taylor

2. Nathan Peterman

3. T.J Yates

Edited June 10, 2017 by DriveFor1Outta5

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

I agree that these types of list are silly. In reality the backup QB position is weak across the league. Backup QB's in a starter role generally equal losses. Even if the list were better composed, I feel that ranking backup QB's is a waste of time.

It will also be completely justifiable after Cardale stinks up the joint this preseason.

I'm thinking this

1. Tyrod Taylor

2. Nathan Peterman

3. T.J Yates

 

.....looks pretty accurate to me....if Peterman is the PS choice, crapshoot would be another team poaching him but he has to go to their active 53...........

[Kirby Jackson]

I agree that these types of list are silly. In reality the backup QB position is weak across the league. Backup QB's in a starter role generally equal losses. Even if the list were better composed, I feel that ranking backup QB's is a waste of time.

It will also be completely justifiable after Cardale stinks up the joint this preseason. I don't blame McD for wanting his own guys. Who doesn't want to have ownership over their own success or failure? It's not as if anyone on the roster he inherited had ever won anything.

I'm thinking this

1. Tyrod Taylor

2. Nathan Peterman

3. T.J Yates

I keep going back to it but if Yates is the 3rd QB why waste the roster spot? If you lose Tyrod you can sign "a Yates" (almost certainly Yates himself) the next day.

[Rocky Landing]

I agree that these types of list are silly. In reality the backup QB position is weak across the league. Backup QB's in a starter role generally equal losses. Even if the list were better composed, I feel that ranking backup QB's is a waste of time.

It will also be completely justifiable after Cardale stinks up the joint this preseason. I don't blame McD for wanting his own guys. Who doesn't want to have ownership over their own success or failure? It's not as if anyone on the roster he inherited had ever won anything.

I'm thinking this

1. Tyrod Taylor

2. Nathan Peterman

3. T.J Yates

If TJ Yates gets cut, I would take that as an indication that McD is comfortable with how well his system gets implemented, and that would be good news. And, if Cardale is showing any signs that he is losing his inconsistency, we should keep him, IMO.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

I keep going back to it but if Yates is the 3rd QB why waste the roster spot? If you lose Tyrod you can sign "a Yates" (almost certainly Yates himself) the next day.

...McD may have a conservative "comfort level" with the proverbial "vet presence" on the squad although TJ is hardly a seasoned vet presence......published reports claimed Cardale was struggling with running the "Practice Squad".....so if you cut TJ and TT goes down, are you comfortable with Jones and Peterman?............

[DriveFor1Outta5]

I keep going back to it but if Yates is the 3rd QB why waste the roster spot? If you lose Tyrod you can sign "a Yates" (almost certainly Yates himself) the next day.

I understand your point. TJ Yates level players aren't difficult to find. That doesn't mean they wouldn't keep him as a third string QB imo. The coaching staff might value keeping a guy on the roster who will know the offense. It seems like a better scenario than signing a QB off the street a week before a game. Personally I'd prefer to have the same three QB's on my roster for an entire season.

[Kirby Jackson]

...McD may have a conservative "comfort level" with the proverbial "vet presence" on the squad although TJ is hardly a seasoned vet presence......published reports claimed Cardale was struggling with running the "Practice Squad".....so if you cut TJ and TT goes down, are you comfortable with Jones and Peterman?............

I'm fine with any combination of 1 or 2 young guys. If they deem the young guys not ready I guess Yates gets the number 2 job. If he is the number 3 there is no way I am keeping him vs. an additional guy like Brandon Tate.

I understand your point. TJ Yates level players aren't difficult to find. That doesn't mean they wouldn't keep him as a third string QB imo. The coaching staff might value keeping a guy on the roster who will know the offense. It seems like a better scenario than signing a QB off the street a week before a game. Personally I'd prefer to have the same three QB's on my roster for an entire season.

It's likely (AT LEAST 75%) that the QB you sign off the street can be Yates. Does that change your opinion? He's not going to end up on another active roster if cut. Certainly not before some of the guys that are out there and others that will be cut.

[DriveFor1Outta5]

...McD may have a conservative "comfort level" with the proverbial "vet presence" on the squad although TJ is hardly a seasoned vet presence......published reports claimed Cardale was struggling with running the "Practice Squad".....so if you cut TJ and TT goes down, are you comfortable with Jones and Peterman?............

Exactly. That's why I could see Yates being kept on the roster as a third stringer. I truly believe that Cardale is going to struggle enough to be cut. That leaves the team with TT, Peterman, and Yates. Why cut Yates in that scenario? Sure you could find someone with equal talent, but the conservative move is to keep the player who is familiar with the coaching staff. McD may not be comfortable with idea of potentially being forced to sign a QB off the street midseason.

I'm fine with any combination of 1 or 2 young guys. If they deem the young guys not ready I guess Yates gets the number 2 job. If he is the number 3 there is no way I am keeping him vs. an additional guy like Brandon Tate.

It's likely (AT LEAST 75%) that the QB you sign off the street can be Yates. Does that change your opinion? He's not going to end up on another active roster if cut. Certainly not before some of the guys that are out there and others that will be cut.

I understand your point. I just don't see a good reason not to carry three QB's. I'd rather have my third string QB practicing and game planning weekly opposed to sitting at home. Edited June 10, 2017 by DriveFor1Outta5

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

I'm fine with any combination of 1 or 2 young guys. If they deem the young guys not ready I guess Yates gets the number 2 job. If he is the number 3 there is no way I am keeping him vs. an additional guy like Brandon Tate.

It's likely (AT LEAST 75%) that the QB you sign off the street can be Yates. Does that change your opinion? He's not going to end up on another active roster if cut. Certainly not before some of the guys that are out there and others that will be cut.

...at #3, he'd be Donohole's clipboard carrying specialist Shane Matthews at 700 grand a year (years ago)................

[mannc]

Well, no. Mahomes and Trubisky were top 10 picks. Cardale was taken in the bottom of the 4th. There's certainly a compelling reason to prefer the better prospects.

Lower picks outperform higher picks all the time in the NFL. Cardale has better tools than both those guys, played against a higher level of competition, and won far more big games. I say we should wait and see what happens when they actually play.