Hurricane Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Every one on the team for the past 17 years has wasted out time. /thread Pretty much... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2009 Posted May 23, 2017 Author Share Posted May 23, 2017 Pushed him on two staffs, we have no evidence of that. He drafted him to develop him. He was forced to play as a rookie and faired ok for a rookie. Whaley Brought in Orton year 2 , cassal and Tayor the following Year. If he was forcing him on the staff he would have done the Billy beane thing in Moneyball and lef the coach with no option. I hate to tell you this, but Marrone wanted Orton. Rex Ryan is the one who pushed to get Taylor. Whaley brought them in because the Coaching staffs wanted them. Cassel beat out EJ for the number two spot. EJ had more than enough opportuniteis. He's just not a good NFL QB and never will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baskingridgebillsfan Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 They should've at least found a way to surround him with experienced football personnel, such as a "czar" or whatever you want to call it. That was the plan. Polian was onboard. Marrone bailed. Polian then bailed. Pegs Hired an Experienced football coach. Unfortunately Rex lost his fast ball and the whole thing became a mess. So two years in Pegs reboots with what looks like an very talented group Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 They should've at least found a way to surround him with experienced football personnel, such as a "czar" or whatever you want to call it. If you believe the rumors, apparently they did and then Polian walked away. Again, it's simple in hindsight, but their first offseason, they were dealt with their starting QB's sudden retirement, head coach walking away and senior adviser deciding to stay on TV. In that context, it's easy to see why they'd lean on hiring Rex to get an aged NFL veteran to guide the team. Little did they know at the time that Rex used that contract to fund his early retirement while he ran the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baskingridgebillsfan Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 If you believe the rumors, apparently they did and then Polian walked away. Again, it's simple in hindsight, but their first offseason, they were dealt with their starting QB's sudden retirement, head coach walking away and senior adviser deciding to stay on TV. In that context, it's easy to see why they'd lean on hiring Rex to get an aged NFL veteran to guide the team. Little did they know at the time that Rex used that contract to fund his early retirement while he ran the team. I agree , I think everyone should give pegs a break on the Bills he seems to have figured out the type of organization he wants to run Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2009 Posted May 23, 2017 Author Share Posted May 23, 2017 I agree , I think everyone should give pegs a break on the Bills he seems to have figured out the type of organization he wants to run This I agree with. They are 24-24 as owners, which is not terrible, and I like all the offseason hires so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Andrew Luck, a generational qb prospect, had Bruce Arians as his rookie year OC. Your boy has Andy Reid. EJ had Nate Freakin' Hackett. Derek Carr has Jack Del Rio, not exactly a great coach. His OC is Todd Downing who was our QB coach in 2014. Maybe coaches don't matter as much with QB success as you think. I mean there's obviously some wiggle room there, I'm sure EJ would have looked better with Belichick coaching him for example. But no way his ceiling was that far beyond where he ended up at. Once defenses realized how easy he was to defend it was over. His best statistical game was in his rookie year in a game where the wind delivered a fluke TD to TJ Graham. EJ never showed potential to be a long-term starter in the league and no amount of coaching could have fixed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 (edited) There is so much wrong with this post, I don't know where to begin. EJ was a project pick that never should have been picked in the first round. He had plenty of chances-he failed. Two coaching staffs realized he was not starter material. He had to be benched. He's a draft bust because he was taken in the first round. The irony of 2013 was fans like us still wanted a QB. No one said it was a toxic QB class. Now we're so much smarter. Edited May 23, 2017 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Derek Carr has Jack Del Rio, not exactly a great coach. His OC is Todd Downing who was our QB coach in 2014. Maybe coaches don't matter as much with QB success as you think. I mean there's obviously some wiggle room there, I'm sure EJ would have looked better with Belichick coaching him for example. But no way his ceiling was that far beyond where he ended up at. Once defenses realized how easy he was to defend it was over. His best statistical game was in his rookie year in a game where the wind delivered a fluke TD to TJ Graham. EJ never showed potential to be a long-term starter in the league and no amount of coaching could have fixed it. 1) EJ had a better qb rating than Carr did his rookie year. 2) EJ's best game was a game winning drive against the Panthers, who finished #2 in the entire NFL in defense that season. He also left the field with a lead against NE and helped beat the reigning SB champs. And the whole point isn't to say if EJ would be a franchise qb. It was that his development sucked. A first time OC and qb coach from Syracuse. The GM who picked him didn't want to give up on him after one coaching staff. Whaley didn't get to be a real GM here. I worry if Beane will get to since he basically got hired by the head coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bomb Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Then why are you posting in both Whaley threads? Because he's using the internet as an opportunity to tell you you're wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kota Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 not sure why anyone cares what Tim Graham says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 The irony of 2013 was fans like us still wanted a QB. No one said it was a toxic QB class. Now we're so much smarter. Uhm no. By the time the draft came around, most people thought that 2013 was a horrible year for QBs and many thought that it could have been the first draft in decades without a 1st round QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 There is so much wrong with this post, I don't know where to begin. EJ was a project pick that never should have been picked in the first round. He had plenty of chances-he failed. Two coaching staffs realized he was not starter material. He had to be benched. He's a draft bust because he was taken in the first round. If you set aside your single track mind, you may find that there is nothing wrong with Buftex's post. You are just looking for agreement that EJ is a bust. He OTOH is explaining the larger point of Whaley's tenure and not really saying that EJ was a great prospect. If you decide to be a bit objective in your posts, you may learn something from differing opinions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 The irony of 2013 was fans like us still wanted a QB. No one said it was a toxic QB class. Now we're so much smarter. The was talk inside the Bills' war room to trade down again from the 16th spot in 2013. It was widely projected that it was a bad year to need a QB as publicly admitted by Buddy Nix. In retrospect the entire draft class was pretty bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 1) EJ had a better qb rating than Carr did his rookie year. 2) EJ's best game was a game winning drive against the Panthers, who finished #2 in the entire NFL in defense that season. He also left the field with a lead against NE and helped beat the reigning SB champs. And the whole point isn't to say if EJ would be a franchise qb. It was that his development sucked. A first time OC and qb coach from Syracuse. The GM who picked him didn't want to give up on him after one coaching staff. Whaley didn't get to be a real GM here. I worry if Beane will get to since he basically got hired by the head coach. 1) What does that have to do with anything? Carr showed progress each year while EJ was treading water. And Carr didn't have amazing QB coaches helping him along. QBs have it or they don't. Every year we've put EJ out there he's looked worse than before. 2) That wasn't EJ's best game, it was EJ's best drive. He also had an interception on that drive overturned by a penalty, and Stevie was WIDE OPEN in the end zone. For a career defining drive it's absolutely pathetic. And the rest of that game he was below average. Was Carr's development really good? What am I missing here? QBs develop into good players or they don't. Aaron Rodgers did not have an all-time great coach working with him behind the scenes, in fact Favre was notorious for not wanting to mentor him. I don't think coaches are as important as you think. I think in-game and production wise coaching can be important but I don't think the difference between a great QB and a bust is just coaching. Joe Flacco has world class coaching in Baltimore, why has he gotten so much worse since his Super Bowl? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 This I agree with. They are 24-24 as owners, which is not terrible, and I like all the offseason hires so far. I do to....but I do understand the fans that are still "show me the baby" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 If you set aside your single track mind, you may find that there is nothing wrong with Buftex's post. You are just looking for agreement that EJ is a bust. He OTOH is explaining the larger point of Whaley's tenure and not really saying that EJ was a great prospect. If you decide to be a bit objective in your posts, you may learn something from differing opinions You realize he's a middle school student don't you? They haven't gone over the word Objective in English class yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 The was talk inside the Bills' war room to trade down again from the 16th spot in 2013. It was widely projected that it was a bad year to need a QB as publicly admitted by Buddy Nix. In retrospect the entire draft class was pretty bad. ...ironically Genome Smith was their 1st choice until they interviewed him and worked him out....2nd choice was EJ so trying to trade down makes sense........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 In the same year that the Skins drafted Griffin they also drafted Cousins in the fourth round. He is their starter now. The person who didn't want to invest a lot of picks and future picks on Griffin was their coach, Shanahan. It was the owner who insisted on mortgaging the future on Griffin. Cousins was available for us in the third or fourth round. We did what we usually do and passed. Our saga continues. You loved the Redskins moving up for RG III. You actually lamented that the Bills should have done it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Tim Graham with hindsight is so prescient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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