thebandit27 Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 My argument was that Nix added more talented players than Whaley. You said "you could argue" without arguing that, because.... Your argument was that Nix had added a few players that were the team's most talented. I said that was debatable and cited names (which you have failed to discredit). Moreover, you still cannot seem to identify the point that I made, which was that Whaley had a greater overall level of talent on the team in his tenure than Nix did. Why you're choosing not to acknowledge this is because... There's a Worship Richie movement among the fanbase. Haven't yet seen anything to convince me he is that much way better than competent. No, there's no "worship Richie" movement. He's been selected to the pro bowl in 2 consecutive seasons, and so some folks (like myself) choose to identify him as a pro bowl guard. I know, I know, that's crazy talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 Your argument was that Nix had added a few players that were the team's most talented. I said that was debatable and cited names (which you have failed to discredit). Moreover, you still cannot seem to identify the point that I made, which was that Whaley had a greater overall level of talent on the team in his tenure than Nix did. Why you're choosing not to acknowledge this is because... No, there's no "worship Richie" movement. He's been selected to the pro bowl in 2 consecutive seasons, and so some folks (like myself) choose to identify him as a pro bowl guard. I know, I know, that's crazy talk. Fact, Nix was the only GM who added an All-Pro player for the Bills. Sure, he added a few good pieces. I said that he did in Hughes etc. But we added better players under Nix and would've been better off with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 (edited) My argument was that Nix added more talented players than Whaley. You said "you could argue" without arguing that, because....Nix was also the GM of worse teams which makes adding top talent easier. Dareus was the 3rd overall pick & Mario was the highest paid defensive player of all-time. I don't know how much credit you get for drafting a guy that many considered was the best player in the draft (same goes for Sammy)? I don't know how much credit you get for making a FA the top paid defensive player ever? The Shady trade also fits in this group. I wouldn't say that any of those moves indicated a "shrewd GM." Those were obvious. Tim Murray shouldn't get a ton of credit for taking Eichel either, a 4 year-old could have made that decision. A good job by a GM, in any sport, is recognizing players that others aren't seeing. Sometimes that is because they are a better scheme fit and other times it because they haven't had the opportunity. The Hughes trade, Lorax, Incognito, Tyrod and Zach Brown signings are home runs for a GM. The additions of Darby, Gillislee, Karlos Williams and maybe Kevin Seymour are also big successes. The CK move, EJ pick, Rex hiring and extending Carpenter fall into the big fail category. It's like with anything there is good and there is bad. Edited May 24, 2017 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 No, there's no "worship Richie" movement. He's been selected to the pro bowl in 2 consecutive seasons, and so some folks (like myself) choose to identify him as a pro bowl guard. I know, I know, that's crazy talk. The first year he played for the Bills I thought he was one of the best guards in the league. Last year, he had a good to solid season but there was a noticeable drop off from his exceptional first year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 Fact, Nix was the only GM who added an All-Pro player for the Bills. Sure, he added a few good pieces. I said that he did in Hughes etc. But we added better players under Nix and would've been better off with him. Whaley had a greater overall level of talent on the team in his tenure than Nix did. That was my statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Curt Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 (edited) The Talent level the Bills have on this team is the highest it's been since 2002. I believe the Bills had like 5 Pro Bowl players. Sammy Watkins is one of the most talented players in the NFL at receiver. He's just been injury stricken, but the potential is limitless. Whaley missed on a QB but for the life of me why so much hate. The Buffalo News and certain fans are kicking DW while he's down. DW took for responsibility for his shortcomings and went out with class. Turn the page....Next chapter Edited May 24, 2017 by Big Curt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 Whaley had a greater overall level of talent on the team in his tenure than Nix did. That was my statement. Yeah, he did. But Nix added better players. That was mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Hucklebuck Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 (edited) Mike Holmgrem thought in 2009/2010 that he could leisurely build a football team, putting first time Head Coach Pat Shurmer in charge, playing Colt McCoy, before taking Brandon Weeden. Building through the Draft, releasing veterans, and doing a lot of losing. What happened? Things changed, A new owner came in, new management came in, and Holgrem was out, the QB he drafted was out. Whaley's plan at QB was to have career backups and journeyman compete against EJ Manuel. Famously said they were ok with Jeff Tuel and Thad Lewis backing up Manuel, talked Orton out of retirement, got outbid for Josh McCown, traded for Matt Cassel and brought in Tyrod Taylor. Whaley acted like he had time to just build and develop, to keep pushing for EJ Manuel, but things change. It will happen to Beane too, if he does not doing something better than Tyrod Taylor. 3rd year now with Baltimore's backup. You don't get 3 years anymore, let alone 5. Edited May 24, 2017 by Straight Hucklebuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2009 Posted May 24, 2017 Author Share Posted May 24, 2017 Yeah, he did. But Nix added better players. That was mine. Nix was a terrible GM. Mike Holmgrem thought in 2009/2010 that he could leisurely build a football team, putting first time Head Coach Pat Shurmer in charge, playing Colt McCoy, before taking Brandon Weeden. Building through the Draft, releasing veterans, and doing a lot of losing. What happened? Things changed, A new owner came in, new management came in, and Holgrem was out, the QB he drafted was out. Whaley's plan at QB was to have career backups and journeyman compete against EJ Manuel. Famously said they were ok with Jeff Tuel and Thad Lewis backing up Manuel, talked Orton out of retirement, got outbid for Josh McCown, traded for Matt Cassel and brought in Tyrod Taylor. Whaley acted like he had time to just build and develop, to keep pushing for EJ Manuel, but things change. It will happen to Beane too, if he does not doing something better than Tyrod Taylor. 3rd year now with Baltimore's backup. You don't get 3 years anymore, let alone 5. Taylor was not the reason the bills missed the playoffs in 2016. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. K Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 Whaley never had the degree of control over the team that a lot of GMs have. In particular, he had to go with other people's first choices of coaches. I would have liked to see how the team would have done under Hue Jackson & Jim Schwartz instead of the Pegulas' disastrous choice Rex. It's fashionable to beat on Whaley here right now the way people beat up John Butler and Wade Phillips, seventeen years ago, and jumped on the Gregg Williams bandwagon. We saw how that worked out. I hope the new regime does better this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2009 Posted May 24, 2017 Author Share Posted May 24, 2017 Whaley never had the degree of control over the team that a lot of GMs have. In particular, he had to go with other people's first choices of coaches. I would have liked to see how the team would have done under Hue Jackson & Jim Schwartz instead of the Pegulas' disastrous choice Rex. It's fashionable to beat on Whaley here right now the way people beat up John Butler and Wade Phillips, seventeen years ago, and jumped on the Gregg Williams bandwagon. We saw how that worked out. I hope the new regime does better this time. Who beat up on Butler and Phillips? Winning teams and playoff appearances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 technically, hasn't everyone involved with this team over the last 17 years wasted our time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2009 Posted May 24, 2017 Author Share Posted May 24, 2017 technically, hasn't everyone involved with this team over the last 17 years wasted our time? Good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. K Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 (edited) Who beat up on Butler and Phillips? Winning teams and playoff appearances. You obviously were not around here back then. Wade was treated like a punching bag over a lot of trivial BS (and a few serious issues). They used to scream at him (I'm not kidding) for not wearing headphones on the sidelines. Losing to Miami and Tennessee in the playoffs was inexcusable to a lot of fans then. Butler was run out of town for standing up to Ralph (and for his terrible 2000 draft). Bills fans did not realize how good they had it. Edited May 24, 2017 by Dr. K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 ...Whaley is gone and Graham is a waste of time......slow news day with his "I told you so" crap......Jerry should be along shortly....oh joy..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2009 Posted May 24, 2017 Author Share Posted May 24, 2017 You obviously were not around here back then. Wade was treated like a punching bag over a lot of trivial BS (and a few serious issues). They used to scream at him (I'm not kidding) for not wearing headphones on the sidelines. Losing to Miami and Tennessee in the playoffs was inexcusable to a lot of fans then. Butler was run out of town for standing up to Ralph (and for his terrible 2000 draft). Bills fans did not realize how good they had it. I was around. I liked both Butler and Phillips. I guess not having social media back then, I don't remember that much hate on both. Some on the radio shows, but nothing how people react these days to such things with social media and message boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 EJ was just a horrible QB, Mooch said he could tell if a QB was worth a **** in TC and pre season. Steve Mariucci? That'd be why he stuck with Jeff Garcia and Joey Harrington, and left coaching after 9 years of meh punctuated by a couple early exits from playoffs - 'cuz he could TELL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2009 Posted May 24, 2017 Author Share Posted May 24, 2017 ...Whaley is gone and Graham is a waste of time......slow news day with his "I told you so" crap......Jerry should be along shortly....oh joy..... I checked his twitter-Sulivan has been pretty quiet today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 (edited) Steve Mariucci? That'd be why he stuck with Jeff Garcia and Joey Harrington, and left coaching after 9 years of meh punctuated by a couple early exits from playoffs - 'cuz he could TELL. ...wasn't his bread buttered with the Niners and not so when he went to Detroit in a tougher setting?....didn't he get $10+ mil on the remaining two years after going 15-28?....and you wonder why the "booth" is comfy......... Edited May 24, 2017 by OldTimeAFLGuy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26TrapDraw Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 Need to be careful. I was sent a warning for pointing this out. Not a chance 26CB is a made man on this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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