Pbomb Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 Whaley was 2013. Whaley had 3 drafts and got 1 star. Nix had three drafts and got 3. Whaley had 3 drafts and got 2 solid starters who will finish out his first contract with us. Nix had 3 drafts and got 3 solid starters who played 4 years here, one of which got a second contract with the Bills. Yes, that''s clearly better. Drafting is judged by the quality of player and the length they played with the Bills. thats cool u can see the future on bills players from the last couple years, and who are these solid starters for nix , bradham and searcy both started 1 year then left Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vorpma Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 Really, so what, who cares that we drafted "stars." This team has NOT/NOT fielded a playoff worthy team since 1999; a total failed organization. It remains a failed organization until it does; for those of you who set the bar low my sympathies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 ...two Grahams...BOTH crumbs.....Tim & TJ......so noted............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vorpma Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 Back in the era of OJ and rushing titles, one of the Dolphins Defensive starters stated that it was great OJ was gaining rushing titles and publicity as a great runner, but In January, the Bills would be watching the playoffs on television! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 The sad part is the myriad of idiots around here who agreed with Whaley and equally did not understand from the jump that EJ was worthless garbage and always would be. Hard to know which is more telling: that you call people idiots while yelling "I told you so" about EJ, referring to another human as "worthless garbage" because he couldn't excel at a professional sport, or that you somehow find it useful to not only point all of this this out, but simultaneously find it just so sad to watch. What, oh what, would these insignificant people do without your expansive knowledge and empathy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 (edited) That was obvious P.R. language. They were doing a complete rebuild. Of course they were going to suck and Nix knew it. But you can't say that. That's why they lost more the first two - three years under Nix. That's what happens when you rebuild. The strongest lineup this team has fielded in recent years was pretty much the one operating with mostly Nix guys. The reason Nix's legacy is now tarnished is that though he drafted pretty well and put together a good group of players on defense and a few on offense, he didn't bring in a QB and he did bring in his own replacement, a guy who turned out not to be able to do the job. That's where Nix fell down and hurt his own reputation. He brought in Whaley. It's what his reputation was always likely to rest on. I disagree that Nix thought it was a full rebuild as the team had a bunch of talent on both sides of the ball. As I attempted to point out in my earlier that both Nix and Whaley had no clue on how to build a proper offensive line. Look back to that 2010 roster to see the Bills had RB's Fred Jackson, Marshawn Lynch, Ryan Fitzpatrick at QB and Stevie Johnson, Lee Evans at wide-out. Beast mode used to make his yards in Buffalo with 3 defenders hanging on to him and Freddy was the better back because he was more elusive. What did Nix do with a former #1 pick at RB but trade him away to Seattle for a 4th and a 5th. The one area that was weakest was the offensive line at tackle and had Nix bolstered that area properly in the off season the team would have undoubtedly won more games. Ultimately Nix eventually band aided the line by bringing in free agent scrubs Urbik and Pears who were both off the street pick ups during the season. The team kept those band aid players for years while not realizing what proper talent at OG like Richie Incognito would do for the team. The defense wasn't so bad in talent either with Kyle Williams, Poz, McKelvin, Whitner and Byrd. The Bills had the #3 defense in yards against the pass but were 32nd against the run. The team was basically lacking more quality talent on both lines. Which is the basic area of foundation in building a decent scheme for either side of the ball. Like I said that Fitz and Edwards were running for their lives for the first 8 games and it wasn't until Urbik and Pears came in that the line got a bit more stable. Yes the team went 4-12 that year and lost their first 8 games. However, they also lost 3 games in OT to the 12-4 Ravens, the 10-6 Chiefs, the 12-4 Steelers. It's my contention that had Buddy Nix obtained better talent on both lines that 2010 off season the team would have fared far better then the end result. In my view, Nix's legacy revolves around his thinking that any 6 ft plus, 300 lb plus player can play OG on the offensive line and it lead to his own undoing. BTW, Nix was on retainer as a consultant to the Bills long after he retired as GM and might be the reason as to why Whaley was also misguided in his idea on how to build a line. Anyone else recall what Erik Pears looked like at RG? What GM with a normal brain drafts a rookie QB with a #1 pick and then fails to build a decent line to protect him. Edited May 28, 2017 by thewildrabbit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vorpma Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 Hard to know which is more telling: that you call people idiots while yelling "I told you so" about EJ, referring to another human as "worthless garbage" because he couldn't excel at a professional sport, or that you somehow find it useful to not only point all of this this out, but simultaneously find it just so sad to watch. What, oh what, would these insignificant people do without your expansive knowledge and empathy? I know people ASW EJ; he did not succeed at QB in the NFL but he is in fact a class act and wonderful human being! My best to him in the future and BTW, good post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 Nix's legacy is the same as every other Bills' GM since Polian: failed to find a franchise QB. To say that his tenure is defined by his choices at offensive guard is lunacy of the highest order Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 Yep, and some are still defending the indefensible. Yeah, it's a victory lap strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 Nix's legacy is the same as every other Bills' GM since Polian: failed to find a franchise QB. To say that his tenure is defined by his choices at offensive guard is lunacy of the highest order Nix and Whaley were scouts that were handed titles. They didn't build a successful organization because, as Whaley admitted, they got caught up in the minutiae and had no strategy on how to take down Bill Belichick. It was obvious at the time from the pendulum swinging with coaching staffs and systems. The situation in Buffalo is absurdly self-evident. Anyone that wants to be successful in Buffalo must have a plan to take down the Patriot dynasty. Even Rex Ryan, who indisputably had his faults, understood that and said it both here and when he went to the Jets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 Nix and Whaley were scouts that were handed titles. They didn't build a successful organization because, as Whaley admitted, they got caught up in the minutiae and had no strategy on how to take down Bill Belichick. It was obvious at the time from the pendulum swinging with coaching staffs and systems. The situation in Buffalo is absurdly self-evident. Anyone that wants to be successful in Buffalo must have a plan to take down the Patriot dynasty. Even Rex Ryan, who indisputably had his faults, understood that and said it both here and when he went to the Jets. I don't disagree with any of that Sis. I also don't see how items 1-4 on the priority list are anything other than "get a franchise QB". Building a stout D and run game is nice, but without that most critical piece, Brady and Belichick will still have the upper hand 9 times out of 10 (of course, even with a franchise QB, they probably have the upper hand 7/10 times). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 Nix and Whaley were scouts that were handed titles. They didn't build a successful organization because, as Whaley admitted, they got caught up in the minutiae and had no strategy on how to take down Bill Belichick. It was obvious at the time from the pendulum swinging with coaching staffs and systems. The situation in Buffalo is absurdly self-evident. Anyone that wants to be successful in Buffalo must have a plan to take down the Patriot dynasty. Even Rex Ryan, who indisputably had his faults, understood that and said it both here and when he went to the Jets. Directly and indirectly you are making the point that the organization had no discernible strategy in how to build a franchise. Whether BB was a nemesis to be challenged or not the organization had no underlying theme or philosophy. Individual personnel decisions were simply individual decisions with no thought given to the whole. Nix and Whaley both had an inexplicable casual attitude toward the qb position. The one position that could most quickly elevate a team was a secondary consideration. Nix stated publicly stated that he needed to build up the roster before he would focus on that position made no sense as demonstrated by him bypassing credible prospects when they were available. Shortly after Whaley was dismissed he acknowledged in one of his first public comments that if he had to do it over again he would place more emphasis on acquiring a franchise qb. This odd reluctance reached the point of nonfeasance/malfeasance. It makes no bloody sense! Where I slightly disagree with your take is that I don't think that BB should be the focal point. Even if the Pats were not a force to be reckoned with the Bills needed to be smartly and wisely run. A second-rate organization is going to be a second-rate organization regardless which opposing team is going be the hurdle that needs to be jumped over. With respect to the Rex hiring that in of itself is a testament to the dysfunction that prevailed within the organization. It was an owner mistake that he quickly realized and corrected after a relatively short period of time. Hopefully, that interlude of chaos is a thing of the past and a period of stability and competence will be exhibited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 I'm confused. I read on this board that: a) Ragland, Lawson and Washington are going to be awesome b) Watkins is going to be the next Julio Jones. c) Lesean McCoy is the best RB in the league d) Whaley sucks. How can a, b and c be true is d is true as well? Strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 Hard to know which is more telling: that you call people idiots while yelling "I told you so" about EJ, referring to another human as "worthless garbage" because he couldn't excel at a professional sport, or that you somehow find it useful to not only point all of this this out, but simultaneously find it just so sad to watch. What, oh what, would these insignificant people do without your expansive knowledge and empathy? I love that I got you to shut down your masturbatory thread with ONE MENTION of what a d*ck you have been to concerned Bills fans on TSW. Next year, I'll bring up your "DOOOOOOOOOOMED" history of fan shaming sooner. (Even funnier that you physically removed that part from the quote in your thread bail ). 17 years later and no playoffs......well I can see where a person might feel a little stupid if they had attacked Bills fans and media so unnecessarily for being concerned about perceived dysfunction. Tim Graham holds the organization accountable for their failure...........your writhing incessantly about it doesn't make the media or fans any more accountable for the losing.......that % remains at zero. Keep calling them out though, Mr. Empathy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 I don't disagree with any of that Sis. I also don't see how items 1-4 on the priority list are anything other than "get a franchise QB". Building a stout D and run game is nice, but without that most critical piece, Brady and Belichick will still have the upper hand 9 times out of 10 (of course, even with a franchise QB, they probably have the upper hand 7/10 times). There's a big piece that I disagree with in there though and it's how in the hell does a GM create a strategy when they aren't making the call at head coach? I think much more cavalier than his approach at qb (where he brought in EJ, cardale, Tyrod, and I think wanted to take a swing this year too was his acceptance of not actually being in charge of the show. Once you pull picking the head coach (and by proxy schemes and philosophies of the organization) then he's not supposed to be a strategist but just a glorified scout that is stocking the shelves in someone else's pantry. I've always been very curious how that shook out and if it was something Whaley was good with or was fighting or.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 There's a big piece that I disagree with in there though and it's how in the hell does a GM create a strategy when they aren't making the call at head coach? I think much more cavalier than his approach at qb (where he brought in EJ, cardale, Tyrod, and I think wanted to take a swing this year too was his acceptance of not actually being in charge of the show. Once you pull picking the head coach (and by proxy schemes and philosophies of the organization) then he's not supposed to be a strategist but just a glorified scout that is stocking the shelves in someone else's pantry. I've always been very curious how that shook out and if it was something Whaley was good with or was fighting or.... I agree with you that as a GM he was saddled with tremendous obstacles not of his own making because he didn't select the HC. It was widely reported that he wanted to select a qb in the first round this year but didn't have the authority to do so because the owner's choice of a HC included the role of de facto GM for him. If he would have acted sooner on the qb imperative when he did have the authority things maybe would have been different for him. If he would have selected Carr or maybe even Prescott whom he favored over Cardale in an earlier he might still be working from his GM perch in western NY. While it doesn't seem that Whaley made the hire for Marrone or Rex he was still in a position to make qb decisions during their tenures. That's on him. In the end he sabotaged himself by not being resolute and acting on the qb issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 Nix and Whaley both had an inexplicable casual attitude toward the qb position. The one position that could most quickly elevate a team was a secondary consideration. Nix stated publicly stated that he needed to build up the roster before he would focus on that position made no sense as demonstrated by him bypassing credible prospects when they were available. Shortly after Whaley was dismissed he acknowledged in one of his first public comments that if he had to do it over again he would place more emphasis on acquiring a franchise qb. This odd reluctance reached the point of nonfeasance/malfeasance. It makes no bloody sense! What a lot of fans forget is that when the Bills hired Chan Gailey he had stated to both Nix and owner Ralph Wilson (in what helped him land the job in Buffalo) was that he didn't need star players to win games. Wilson loved that statement! "Last point: I can guarantee you one of the things that the Bills loved was Gailey's attitude about how you can win without stars in the NFL." https://www.si.com/more-sports/2010/01/19/mailbag-0 Basically Gailey had told the Bills FO that he could win games with the current QB's on the roster. That 2010 off season the Bills had Ryan Fitzpatrick, Brian Brohm and Trent Edwards in the mix for a starting QB job and Gailey stated that they were all about equal. Then after camp Gailey was convinced he could win games with Trent Edwards as his starting QB even after Bills fans at training camp told him differently. Gailey was adamant about defending Edwards all the way up until he cut him after that regular season week two game against the Packers. For the 2011 season Gailey said he could win with Fitz at QB! "I am extremely confident in Ryan Fitzpatrick," said Gailey. "We can win a bunch of football games (with him)." http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2011/02/bills-chan-gailey-i-am-extremely-confident-in-ryan-fitzpatrick/1?csp=34sports#.WSseV-vyuUl So, in regards to Nix and the QB situation the GM was only following what his head coach had told him he could win with. As for Whaley and the changing of the HC from Gailey to Marrone in 2013 when Nix stepped down after the draft. From What I recall Whaley went and personally scouted the prospective QB prospects that year and came away that EJ was his man. In his years as GM it looked to me like Whaley never wanted to give up on EJ as his starter even when Marrone and Rex Ryan didn't want him. Bottom line is that this franchise hasn't seen 10 wins since 1999 and they can only lose twice to the Patriots every year. What happened with the other 14 games every year in all that time? Anyway, I'm just happy that it looks like the Bills might finally be moving out of that mediocrity zone. Can't wait to see how this team looks this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 Whaley sucked but he gets too much blame for quarterback and not enough blame for everything else. Manuel had a promising rookie season. He just shouldn't have traded up for Watkins the following spring. And he should have drafted another one in each draft to compete. I wasn't a fan of the Orton signing even in hindsight considering it accomplished nothing except get us 9 meaningless wins that hurt our draft position and destroyed any hope that Manuel was going to develop. The Taylor pickup was good. My biggest knock on Whaley re: QB was not drafting enough of them and choosing Adolphus Washington over Dak Prescott. good post all around . But the bolded is when the Bills went off the rails. And the dysfunction truly reared its ugly head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 I love that I got you to shut down your masturbatory thread with ONE MENTION of what a d*ck you have been to concerned Bills fans on TSW. Next year, I'll bring up your "DOOOOOOOOOOMED" history of fan shaming sooner. (Even funnier that you physically removed that part from the quote in your thread bail ). 17 years later and no playoffs......well I can see where a person might feel a little stupid if they had attacked Bills fans and media so unnecessarily for being concerned about perceived dysfunction. Tim Graham holds the organization accountable for their failure...........your writhing incessantly about it doesn't make the media or fans any more accountable for the losing.......that % remains at zero. Keep calling them out though, Mr. Empathy. The contest deadline was midnight last night, and if you were even remotely as intelligent as you pretend to be about history, you'd remember I always lock the contest thread after the deadline has passed so people can't change their picks as the season gets closer. Unfortunately, you're so upset that I mock Timmah! Graham that you can't even think straight. But let's be honest; no one who defends Timmah!! Graham to this extent will ever be mistaken for someone who can think for themselves, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2009 Posted May 28, 2017 Author Share Posted May 28, 2017 good post all around . But the bolded is when the Bills went off the rails. And the dysfunction truly reared its ugly head EJ was never going to develop more than what he is-a not so good NFL QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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