Pats sign Gillislee to offer sheet

[without a drought]

soooo... did we lose him for sure? When do the Bills need to make a decision to match or not to match?

The bills made the decision when they put the fifth round tender on him.

It's raining. Also there are a bunch of frustrated Bills fans. It would've cost an extra $900k this season to have given Gillislee a second round tender instead of original round (5th). Now the Bills have to decide between paying him even more or losing him and gaining a 5th round pick. It's not the end of the world, but it was a mistake (which I pointed out at the time of tender) and I'm frustrated with watching Whaley repeatedly make such mistakes.

Unless you don't see it as a mistake.

[papazoid]

Wow, is this thread going to go longer than the mario thread?

 

no way

 

F5

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

 

I think many facets of the personnel approach they've taken this offseason have been ill-advised.

 

- I would never have been in the Ricky Wagner running for $9M/year.

- I'd have taken a different course with Gillislee

- I never would've gone near Ducasse

- I would've tried to focus on cap casualties like Bethea etc to take advantage of the comp pick formula

 

Not saying I'm right and Whaley's wrong, but I haven't really liked the general path this offseason...that's not to say that some of the signings haven't been good ones.

 

What would your Gillislee course have been? Just curious.

[Deranged Rhino]

 

This is about our former backup RB.

 

If you think TT is the best FA the Bills have signed in 10 years please show me why in another thread.

1. This is simply a false Bills fan myth. It takes what 1 second to hand the ball off and another second for the RB to hit the LOS correct? if you call 2 seconds slowly developing a hole your very mistaken.

2. MG can't hold McCoy's jock strap. MG is a completely different change of pace back to McCoy. One that throws the opposing D off after taking numerous snaps against one of the premiere running backs in the league.

3. See #1. the OL is average at pass protection but top 5 hands down in the league at run blocking. Selling the line short whom dominate at run blocking is sad man.

 

Of course it's false. But you don't go to him for an honest discussion on Shady. He does everything he can to minimize the impact Shady has on the team, because he said he was washed up before he ever stepped foot in Buffalo and being right is the most important thing, even more so than being honest.

 

At least to Badol.

[plenzmd1]

Wow, is this thread going to go longer than the mario thread?

i have been out of it for a day..and that was my thought

 

The bills made the decision when they put the fifth round tender on him.

 

 

Not really...had the Blount taken the Pats offer, Gillie not signed by anyone else.

[Riverboat Richie]

If the Bills wanted to keep Gillislee, or Hogan for that matter, they would have paid them and it would have never come to this. They don't value these guys as much the fans for a reason.

[thebandit27]

 

What would your Gillislee course have been? Just curious.

 

As I've said a few times in this thread (and given how long it is it's understandable if anyone missed it), I said very early in the offseason that I'd offer him a 2-year, $4.5M deal that was fully guaranteed. I'd have kept the cap hit low for 2017--lower than the original-round tender at $1.5M--and let the 2018 cap figure climb to $3M.

 

The incentive to sign is that it's more guaranteed money in case he gets injured in the preseason.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

For those criticizing Williams regarding his ball security, he was considered mediocre-poor regarding his fumbling in college ---- 1 in every 72 touches. Who knows if it improves if he played in 2015 - but it wasn't considered a strength. The 2 fumbles last year would likely stand to be an outlier from limited production, not necessarily a trend that he's going to fumble once every 15 touches. One was in a game we were leading by 29 points and had taken everyone out, and another was in a game where the team gave up on week 17. He also saw the field a bit less after the fumble against SF.

 

However from a similar perspective - Gillislee in his 2 years playing in the NFL has fumbled 1 in every 81.5 touches. Not exactly the most amazing ball security either.

[without a drought]

i have been out of it for a day..and that was my thought

 

 

Not really...had the Blount taken the Pats offer, Gillie not signed by anyone else.

The Bills made a decision as to his worth, not to get rid of him.

[FireChan]

 

This is about our former backup RB.

 

If you think TT is the best FA the Bills have signed in 10 years please show me why in another thread.

1. This is simply a false Bills fan myth. It takes what 1 second to hand the ball off and another second for the RB to hit the LOS correct? if you call 2 seconds slowly developing a hole your very mistaken.

2. MG can't hold McCoy's jock strap. MG is a completely different change of pace back to McCoy. One that throws the opposing D off after taking numerous snaps against one of the premiere running backs in the league.

3. See #1. the OL is average at pass protection but top 5 hands down in the league at run blocking. Selling the line short whom dominate at run blocking is sad man.

I think TT is the second best FA QB signed in the league in the last 10 years. I'm not sure there's an argument otherwise.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

 

As I've said a few times in this thread (and given how long it is it's understandable if anyone missed it), I said very early in the offseason that I'd offer him a 2-year, $4.5M deal that was fully guaranteed. I'd have kept the cap hit low for 2017--lower than the original-round tender at $1.5M--and let the 2018 cap figure climb to $3M.

 

The incentive to sign is that it's more guaranteed money in case he gets injured in the preseason.

 

While it guarantees a low-ish hit for a backup/spell/short yardage back, you're also fully guaranteeing a contract for 2018 when he may not be able to play. How would it have been structured to give him more money in 2017? I assume low base salary in 2018?

 

He just got 2-years and 6... so his agent probably wanted more from the get-go. What is the incentive to sign?

[thebandit27]

 

While it guarantees a low-ish hit for a backup/spell/short yardage back, you're also fully guaranteeing a contract for 2018 when he may not be able to play. How would it have been structured to give him more money in 2017? I assume low base salary in 2018?

 

He just got 2-years and 6... so his agent probably wanted more from the get-go. What is the incentive to sign?

 

He gets more guaranteed money than either the OR or 2nd round tender in case of an injury prior to the season.

 

If they moved quickly on it (say, in January), I think he'd have taken it.

 

If he didn't, then you slap the 2nd round tender on him and you're good to go.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

 

He gets more guaranteed money than either the OR or 2nd round tender in case of an injury prior to the season.

 

If they moved quickly on it (say, in January), I think he'd have taken it.

 

If he didn't, then you slap the 2nd round tender on him and you're good to go.

 

Right - I'm saying... until he's tendered his agent won't let him sign anything (the goal is to be on the open market). When you tender him at the 2nd round tender the negotiations start at 3mil per year (roughly what the 2nd round tender is). He'd get no interest on the RFA market, and he likely walks in a year because we probably don't want to pay a 27 year old back-up RB that much.

[reddogblitz]

He had twice as many lost fumbles as he had TDs. 2 Fumbles on 28 touches. Boy needs to invest in Stickum or Tiki Barber Training...

Or join the unemployment line with Bryce Brown.

[Beef Jerky]

I just want the 5th round pick. The Bills are about to pull a fast one on the Patriots. That much money for a dime a dozen RB.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Or join the unemployment line with Bryce Brown.

 

He fumbled 5 times in 4 seasons... about 1 every 60 touches which is pretty bad. The fact that one cost us a game makes it that much worse.

[Bill_with_it]

 

Riddick was essentially the starter in Detroit, leading the team in attempts and yards despite injury.

Powell was the most similar to our scenario, but he had 32% of his teams attempts vs. 20% for Gillislee.

Burkhead's salary is based on being part of perhaps a 4-headed Patriots rushing attack.

Sproles/Matthews more of a timeshare as well, with 34% Matthews, 22% Sproles.

 

$4m would still be a hefty price to pay for a 20% share backup RB, especially in light of McCoy's MUCH higher salary than any of the other "starters" on those listed teams.

Gill had 101 attempts Mccoy had 234. All the rbs together had 362 attempts. Mccoy had 65 percent and Gill had 28 percent. Might want to brush up on those math skills.

 

I don't pretend to understand BB's mind. But there is no way they'd get into a bidding war over a second string RB.

They just did. The one upd the bills offer and are willing to give up a draft pick.

[Beef Jerky]

He fumbled 5 times in 4 seasons... about 1 every 60 touches which is pretty bad. The fact that one cost us a game makes it that much worse.

But like backup QB the backup RB is the most important position according to some Bills fans here.

 

We don't want a starter... Just keep the backup.

Edited April 19, 2017 by Beef Jerky

[thebandit27]

 

Right - I'm saying... until he's tendered his agent won't let him sign anything (the goal is to be on the open market). When you tender him at the 2nd round tender the negotiations start at 3mil per year (roughly what the 2nd round tender is). He'd get no interest on the RFA market, and he likely walks in a year because we probably don't want to pay a 27 year old back-up RB that much.

 

I was saying to offer him that contract in lieu of any of the tenders...back in January before the RFA tender period.

[Luxy312]

I like Gillislee, but there's no way you pay a backup running back $4m.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

But like backup QB the backup RB is the most important position according to some Bills fans here.

 

He was actually good outside of the fumbles in philly. 4 in a season for a backup running back is a bit out of hand. The rest of his 2012/2013 stat line was pretty good. Still hate the trade that Whaley made there... Good backs can be had with the same pick we traded. We got Karlos in the 5th of the draft that we traded a 4th for Brown in.

 

I was saying to offer him that contract in lieu of any of the tenders...back in January before the RFA tender period.

 

I dunno - i just assume agents wanna play hard ball and won't sign anything until the market value is determined.

 

Depends how badly he wants to be a bill - apparently not that badly...

[Doc]

I like Gillislee, but there's no way you pay a backup running back $4m.

What about $3.2 million? Which is his average over the two years of the contract.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

This is about our former backup RB.

 

If you think TT is the best FA the Bills have signed in 10 years please show me why in another thread.

1. This is simply a false Bills fan myth. It takes what 1 second to hand the ball off and another second for the RB to hit the LOS correct? if you call 2 seconds slowly developing a hole your very mistaken.

2. MG can't hold McCoy's jock strap. MG is a completely different change of pace back to McCoy. One that throws the opposing D off after taking numerous snaps against one of the premiere running backs in the league.

3. See #1. the OL is average at pass protection but top 5 hands down in the league at run blocking. Selling the line short whom dominate at run blocking is sad man.

 

 

1. It is what it is........but if you don't think guys like Taylor.......or Flutie and Mike Vick before him....... made their OL look better and improved their teams ability to run the ball you are just football ignorant, son! Taylor has the added ability to excel at the deep ball, further stressing the run defense by not allowing safeties to cheat up. This is basic football and why they lead the NFL in combined big plays in each of the last two seasons. Hard to stop both.

 

2. I don't care about MG and Shady's lingerie.........consenting adults and such.......but if you mean MG is an all purpose back and Shady is not......then yes, he's a change of pace....MG can break long runs, dominate in short yardage, catch the ball well, consistently gets positive yardage and has a nose for the end zone....all at 25-30 pounds heavier than the dangerous but ever shrinking McCoy. But perhaps most importantly.......he follows blocks......which is a concern with Shady in this new system. Sketchy fit and I'm not the first to say so.

 

3. The Roman scheme in SF and in Buffalo were run at completely different paces.......in SF the OL were very talented and athletic and they were very quick into their blocks....it was a more violent attack. In Buffalo......with less gifted OL......the blocks were MUCH slower developing. So why didn't more teams just shoot gaps the way the Jets did in the finale with EJ and Cardale at QB and take Shady and MG down before they could get behind those holes? Because with Taylor in there they didn't want to fracture their defensive front and risk a huge play by Taylor. Don't be afraid to watch some tape if you want to be more informed.

[Beef Jerky]

What about $3.2 million? Which is his average over the two years of the contract.

No not when the Bills have a better RB in Tolbert.

[thebandit27]

 

I dunno - i just assume agents wanna play hard ball and won't sign anything until the market value is determined.

 

Depends how badly he wants to be a bill - apparently not that badly...

 

You could be right. My only thought was that you might be able to entice him to sign for less if you fully-guarantee the deal very early in the offseason.

 

If not, well, then you slap the 2nd round tender on him and let him play hardball if he wants to...in the end, you own his rights, so he'll have to sign.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

I dunno - i just assume agents wanna play hard ball and won't sign anything until the market value is determined.

 

Depends how badly he wants to be a bill - apparently not that badly...

The market value is pretty much determined by the tender. No team was ever going to give up a 2nd round pick for MG so you could have signed him to a 1 year $2.7M contract at any point and he would have had to take it. The original round tender was the best thing that happened to him and his agent. It made it reasonable for a team to sign him. If the Bills would have offered the 2 year $4.5M guaranteed in January as Bandit suggested, I suspect that he would have signed it. The guarantee of $4.5M would have looked pretty solid next to those tenders.

[Beef Jerky]

The market value is pretty much determined by the tender. No team was ever going to give up a 2nd round pick for MG so you could have signed him to a 1 year $2.7M contract at any point and he would have had to take it. The original round tender was the best thing that happened to him and his agent. It made it reasonable for a team to sign him. If the Bills would have offered the 2 year $4.5M guaranteed in January as Bandit suggested, I suspect that he would have signed it. The guarantee of $4.5M would have looked pretty solid next to those tenders.

Thank god the Bills never made that offer.

[thebandit27]

 

 

3. The Roman scheme in SF and in Buffalo were run at completely different paces.......in SF the OL were very talented and athletic and they were very quick into their blocks....it was a more violent attack. In Buffalo......with less gifted OL......the blocks were MUCH slower developing. So why didn't more teams just shoot gaps the way the Jets did in the finale with EJ and Cardale at QB and take Shady and MG down before they could get behind those holes? Because with Taylor in there they didn't want to fracture their defensive front and risk a huge play by Taylor. Don't be afraid to watch some tape if you want to be more informed.

 

Interestingly enough, Jacksonville did this quite a bit late in the season...and for the most part, it worked...until Shady hit them for a 75-yard TD run and Tyrod hit Sammy on a bomb.

[nucci]

No not when the Bills have a better RB in Tolbert.

I don't agree Tolbert is better than Gillisee

[Luxy312]

What about $3.2 million? Which is his average over the two years of the contract.

 

Why? They have 4 other running backs on the roster not named McCoy, two of which were just signed this year. I don't keep a guy just for the sake of keeping him and Gillislee was good at times, but terrible with the turnovers at times as well. He was never going to be a feature back in Buffalo, so I don't see the point. The teams cap space is limited and to spend it just to prevent the cheatriots from getting him is stupid, IMO.

[Beef Jerky]

I don't agree Tolbert is better than Gillisee

You don't have to agree, he just is.

[thebandit27]

You don't have to agree, he just is.

 

Evidence?

[Luxy312]

You don't have to agree, he just is.

 

As someone said in a movie "the garbage will do". It really doesn't matter who the other guys besides Shady are that are getting carries. The Bills don't run RBBC like other teams in the NFL do.

[BADOLBILZ]

I think TT is the second best FA QB signed in the league in the last 10 years. I'm not sure there's an argument otherwise.

 

Yeah if you follow the league much the Taylor acquisition was quite a steal..........and since QB trumps every other position by A LOT......it would be really hard for the Bills to top that signing.

 

Love him or not, the Bills caught a lucky break there and should be building off it and using his presence as a bridge to better things but instead they appear to be letting the team get worse around him.

[akm0404]

Ya'll have to take this with a grain of salt. This is only a thing because most folks here have had their feelings hurt by the Patriots so much for so long. If any other team stroked out and gave you a 5th rounder for some street free agent backup, you'd be jumping for joy.

 

But because it is the big bad Patriots, and because they've so deeply hurt you for so long, you just can't help but assume this is some next-level maneuver by Lord Belichick to sneak into your house and kick your dog.

[Captain Murica]

 

Interestingly enough, Jacksonville did this quite a bit late in the season...and for the most part, it worked...until Shady hit them for a 75-yard TD run and Tyrod hit Sammy on a bomb.

 

That run was awesome, two Jag defenders had him dead to rights and he made them look silly.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFvPjHAPYA4

[BADOLBILZ]

 

Interestingly enough, Jacksonville did this quite a bit late in the season...and for the most part, it worked...until Shady hit them for a 75-yard TD run and Tyrod hit Sammy on a bomb.

 

 

Who could forget how bad the Eagles DL made Richie Incognito and company look in Philly in 2015........getting wide, shooting gaps before the pulling OL could get to them, stringing McCoy to his (then)preferred sideline route and shutting him down. MG comes in and on the first play takes a carry 25 yards between the hashes for a TD thru the fractured front.

 

In fairness.....we saw a lot more aggression from defensive fronts in 2016 than 2015.......hell in 2015 Tyrod had a clean pocket for 4 seconds on every play it seemed.......but the increased aggression didn't stop the Bills from scoring this year. Tyrod still broke contain.....ran for more TD's etc..

[thebandit27]

 

 

Who could forget how bad the Eagles DL made Richie Incognito and company look in Philly in 2015........getting wide, shooting gaps before the pulling OL could get to them, stringing McCoy to his (then)preferred sideline route and shutting him down. MG comes in and on the first play takes a carry 25 yards between the hashes for a TD thru the fractured front.

 

In fairness.....we saw a lot more aggression from defensive fronts in 2016 than 2015.......hell in 2015 Tyrod had a clean pocket for 4 seconds on every play it seemed.......but the increased aggression didn't stop the Bills from scoring this year. Tyrod still broke contain.....ran for more TD's etc..

 

I noticed that Tyrod had a lot more time later in the season once Watkins came back...that extra safety that defenses can't walk down into the box makes an enormous difference.

[SWATeam]

 

 

Who could forget how bad the Eagles DL made Richie Incognito and company look in Philly in 2015........getting wide, shooting gaps before the pulling OL could get to them, stringing McCoy to his (then)preferred sideline route and shutting him down. MG comes in and on the first play takes a carry 25 yards between the hashes for a TD thru the fractured front.

 

In fairness.....we saw a lot more aggression from defensive fronts in 2016 than 2015.......hell in 2015 Tyrod had a clean pocket for 4 seconds on every play it seemed.......but the increased aggression didn't stop the Bills from scoring this year. Tyrod still broke contain.....ran for more TD's etc..

It's shocking that the Eagles had a game plan to slow down the star starting RB, and then the backup change of pace back came in and had some success...

[bisonbrigade]

 

I noticed that Tyrod had a lot more time later in the season once Watkins came back...that extra safety that defenses can't walk down into the box makes an enormous difference.

You mean for the games when "glass Watkins" actually played. Don't count on that much. LOL