Brady's Legacy

[BillsFan130]

Brady will - and should - go down as the greatest QB to ever play the game.

 

Anyone who disagrees simply hates him.

 

He is the best, ever.

Yep, I agree

[Rico]

Re: Super Bowl appearances,

 

I do think just getting there is a great accomplishment for a QB, but that can be negated by the performance in the game. For instance, McNabb puking on the field during the potentially game-winning drive defines his career for me.

[ProcessAccepted]

He will go down as one of the best of all time. Not sure that he will be ranked #1 (Joe Montana will be for those old enough to have seen him play).

 

I think the only area where he will be the clear #1 is in the category of biggest d0uchebag.

[PatsFanNH]

 

Agree 100% with your first two paragraphs.

 

Devil's Advocate question re: the third paragraph: could Brady have led four separate head coaches to four Super Bowl appearances like Manning did?

 

From a ring perspective, Brady has had a massive advantage over Peyton simply because of who Brady's one single head coach has been as opposed to the handful that Peyton played under. Not saying Brady didn't have a huge responsibility for the Patriots Machine. But...

That's a very good Question, and I honestly don't know I think it would depend on who those coaches were and if they kept the O system in place. (Sort of what happened with Manning they kept that O the same.) if the O scheme stayed the same my guess would be yes. (Again I am biased)

[TakeYouToTasker]

I agree with metz. Its kinda like with Jack Nicholson. He has the most second place Major finishes in golf history at 19, which is almost double the next man up on the list who has 10. So often the bridesmaid, he is widely considered a choke case and a loser despite his incredible successes.

This.

[PatsFanNH]

I agree with metz. Its kinda like with Jack Nicholson. He has the most second place Major finishes in golf history at 19, which is almost double the next man up on the list who has 10. So often the bridesmaid, he is widely considered a choke case and a loser despite his incredible successes.

Golf is an individual sport and you decide your own fate. Football is a team sport and as I mentioned in every SB (to date) Brady has staked the team to a lead with around 2 minutes or less on the clock there is nothing more annoffensive player can do than get the lead near the end of the game.

[Dorkington]

I hate him, but he's the best QB of all time.

[Jauronimo]

Golf is an individual sport and you decide your own fate. Football is a team sport and as I mentioned in every SB (to date) Brady has staked the team to a lead with around 2 minutes or less on the clock there is nothing more annoffensive player can do than get the lead near the end of the game.

Except not play like ass for the first 55 minutes of the game. You're allowed to play well before your last offensive series and not have to depend on your defense to save the day. Especially when you're the "greatest of all time*".

 

*does not include games against Peyton Manning's kid brother.

[PatsFanNH]

Except not play like ass for the first 55 minutes of the game. You're allowed to play well before your last offensive series and not have to depend on your defense to save the day. Especially when you're the "greatest of all time*".

 

*does not include games against Peyton Manning's kid brother.

Umm so your facing a top D and you score late to take the lead and it is his fault the D can't. Hold onto it and that the Giants in one case got like 2 miracles to happen?? Again a team sport and 4-2 is better than 4-0.

[Mr. WEO]

Re: Super Bowl appearances,

 

I do think just getting there is a great accomplishment for a QB, but that can be negated by the performance in the game. For instance, McNabb puking on the field during the potentially game-winning drive defines his career for me.

 

Sadly, it turns out that would be the high point of Andy Reid's HC career.

[Wayne Arnold]

 

Sadly, it turns out that would be the high point of Andy Reid's HC career.

 

I wish we had Andy Reid for HC.

[TheFunPolice]

Brady is going to retire when they win this SB vs the Falcons.

 

He wants to go out on top when he can still play.

 

I'm not guessing or making this up.

[Augie]

Brady is going to retire when they win this SB vs the Falcons.

He wants to go out on top when he can still play.

I'm not guessing or making this up.

Not trying to argue with you, but does that contradict him saying he's playing until his AARP years? I hope he quits tomorrow.

[BillsFan130]

Brady is going to retire when they win this SB vs the Falcons.

 

He wants to go out on top when he can still play.

 

I'm not guessing or making this up.

Not a chance Brady retires if they win. I would bet a lot of money on that

[Prickly Pete]

Brady will - and should - go down as the greatest QB to ever play the game.

 

Anyone who disagrees simply hates him.

 

He is the best, ever.

 

The Truth.

He will go down as one of the best of all time. Not sure that he will be ranked #1 (Joe Montana will be for those old enough to have seen him play).

 

I think the only area where he will be the clear #1 is in the category of biggest d0uchebag.

 

You wish. I saw Montana's entire career.

 

Brady's better.

[TheFunPolice]

Not a chance Brady retires if they win. I would bet a lot of money on that

 

I was surprised too. I also would have bet big $$ against it. Not now, though.

 

But I guess it makes sense given that when the wall comes for a QB (and it always does, kale smoothies and roasted beets or not) it comes quickly.

Edited January 26, 2017 by TheFunPolice

[PatsFanNH]

 

I was surprised too. I also would have bet big $$ against it. Not now, though.

 

But I guess it makes sense given that when the wall comes for a QB (and it always does, kale smoothies and roasted beets or not) it comes quickly.

I will say if Manning had not hurt his neck all those years ago. He is still playing at a high level and leading the Colts into the playoffs. That neck injury truly shortened a great career.

[CanadianFan]

Brady's legacy will be marked with an asterisk, like Canseco, Bonds, McGuire. Unlike Baseball, NFL isn't capable of dealing with the truth, it doesn't want to destroy its brand. So its media department and NFL films will buff out all the warts from memory as time goes by, and make Brady the greatest. But those of us who lived in this time remember the truth: the QB who was a tool for the greatest cheater in NFL history. Yes he had an arm, but you'd always wonder, would he have won all those games without Belicheat. If he was elsewhere, fell to another team in 6th round, would he still be around? Is he just a shade better than Matt Cassel and end up with a similar career? In the end he was more lucky than Great. That's the Tom Brady story.

[PatsFanNH]

Brady's legacy will be marked with an asterisk, like Canseco, Bonds, McGuire. Unlike Baseball, NFL isn't capable of dealing with the truth, it doesn't want to destroy its brand. So its media department and NFL films will buff out all the warts from memory as time goes by, and make Brady the greatest. But those of us who lived in this time remember the truth: the QB who was a tool for the greatest cheater in NFL history. Yes he had an arm, but you'd always wonder, would he have won all those games without Belicheat. If he was elsewhere, fell to another team in 6th round, would he still be around? Is he just a shade better than Matt Cassel and end up with a similar career? In the end he was more lucky than Great. That's the Tom Brady story.

Wow that was a very very salty post.

[Talley56]

I'm sure I'll take heat for saying this but I still believe Manning > Brady. # of super bowl titles is a good measuring stick but it doesn't say everything. Elway > Montana and Bradshaw and I'll stand by that belief for the rest of my life.

 

Regarding Manning vs Brady, here's how their teams have done without them. Pats have gone 11-5 and 3-1 without Brady. After Manning, Colts went 2-14 and looked horrendous. And the Broncos who won the superbowl because of their defense last year fielded mostly the same defense this year and missed the playoffs. That speaks volumes louder the # of rings.

[CanadianFan]

Wow that was a very very salty post.

 

Salty with many grains of truth bud! He'll be in HOF. And also in HOS. Now not many greats can say that! member of two Halls!

[stinky finger]

Salary Cap (Brady) vs Non (Montana).

 

Brady is the best of all time. I get it we all hate him but anything less is Naïve to say

Teams were better back then.

[Prickly Pete]

Brady is making Chris Hogan look like Jerry Rice.

[Augie]

Brady is making Chris Hogan look like Jerry Rice.

Jerry Rice had a couple decent QB's. Who gets that back to back? WOW!

[Prickly Pete]

Jerry Rice had a couple decent QB's. Who gets that back to back? WO

 

I agree. I think he is a bit overrated, as great as he was. Best WR ever though, but not sure I would call him the Greatest Football Player Ever, as I often see claimed.

 

I WOULD call Tom Brady the Greatest Football Player Ever. Lawrence Taylor, if you wanna eliminate QB's.

Teams were better back then.

 

 

True, but Brady woulda had better teammates too then, no?

Edited January 29, 2017 by HoF Watkins

[JohnC]

Jerry Rice had a couple decent QB's. Who gets that back to back? WOW!

The Packers drafted Rodgers while Favre was their starting qb. There is a lesson to be learned for an organization that hasn't had a legitimate franchise qb for twenty years!

[Augie]

The Packers drafted Rodgers while Favre was their starting qb. There is a lesson to be learned for an organization that hasn't had a legitimate franchise qb for twenty years!

Draft HOF QB's? SIGN ME UP! (But no more desperation EJ picks, yuk!) Yeah, easy to say.....harder to implement.

[The Age of Aquarius]

I think P Manning is LIGHTYEARS Better than his little Bro even though he is 2-1 and Eli is 2-0.

 

2-2

Beat the Bears and lost to the Saints in Indy

Beat the Panthers and lost to the Hawks in Denver

[PatsFanNH]

I'm sure I'll take heat for saying this but I still believe Manning > Brady. # of super bowl titles is a good measuring stick but it doesn't say everything. Elway > Montana and Bradshaw and I'll stand by that belief for the rest of my life.

 

Regarding Manning vs Brady, here's how their teams have done without them. Pats have gone 11-5 and 3-1 without Brady. After Manning, Colts went 2-14 and looked horrendous. And the Broncos who won the superbowl because of their defense last year fielded mostly the same defense this year and missed the playoffs. That speaks volumes louder the # of rings.

You lost a TON of credibility when you said Elway > Montana. Elway couldn't carry Montana jockstrap. My proof is simple, he couldn't win the big game until he got a running game. Meanwhile Montana constantly won no matter the running game.. heck he elevated a crappy KC team to a playoff team.

 

As for the Brady v Manning thing. I find it funny that a Bills fan is sticking to this even after almost every colt fan has conceded the argument to Brady.

[The Age of Aquarius]

John Elway. Some think he's the greatest. I don't, but some do. 2-3 in the big game. Brady is considered the greatest of all time now, and I'd be shocked if his legacy takes a hit with a loss. He's going to put up numbers in this game. Just ask Vegas.

 

In my opinion the greatest of all-time is Montana, but his memory is fading. I like 4-0 over 4-2 also, along with zero interceptions in SBs. I always go back to the Jack Morris argument: Who would you trust with your life on the line? I'd pick the guy who threw a 10 inning shutout in the 7th game of the World Series. I'd take Montana.

 

I'm in the Brady camp (too young to remember anything about Montana aside from losing the AFC championship game in Buffalo) but this is really well written and a great arguement.

 

Thanks for the bolded insight.

Brady is consistently great, but all of his SB games were down to the wire. Montana was a master when the competition was the toughest. He was at his best in all the SB games. His QB rating supports this. Brady's average SB rating is 95 and Montana is 127. To be the best you have to dominate the best and that's exactly what Montana did. I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion, but this is the way I see it.

 

This is also a really good argument.

Having a blast reading through this, a lot of great opinions.

This is when this board is at it's best--minimal insults, great sports bar conversation.

And also add Brady had given the team the lead in those two losses with around 2 minutes to go. So he was def clutch!

Damn, this is a great point.

LOL, I'm torn.

 

Devil's Advocate question re: the third paragraph: could Brady have led four separate head coaches to four Super Bowl appearances like Manning did?

 

From a ring perspective, Brady has had a massive advantage over Peyton simply because of who Brady's one single head coach has been as opposed to the handful that Peyton played under. Not saying Brady didn't have a huge responsibility for the Patriots Machine. But...

 

Absolutely incredible argument--never thought about it from this angle before, and I've heard/seen/read a million Brady/Peyton debates over the years.

Incredible insight.

This might be the best thread I've ever read on this site.

I agree with metz. Its kinda like with Jack Nicholson. He has the most second place Major finishes in golf history at 19, which is almost double the next man up on the list who has 10. So often the bridesmaid, he is widely considered a choke case and a loser despite his incredible successes.

 

LOL.

This might be the first thing in this thread I've been strongly opinionated about:

are you kidding me pal?!!?

 

Go find anyone, in any corner of the internet who considers Jack NIKLAUS to be a choke case and a loser, and I'll buy you a ticket to the Masters. At worst you might find a few people who think he's second best to Tiger, but even that crowd is shrinking. Golf is the hardest game on the planet--finishing second at any major even 1 time in your career is enough for glory for some (Sergio)--in no way should a golfer's game be compared to an NFL athlete. 1 winner, 1 loser in football; 1 winner, 160 losers in golf.

 

I was surprised too. I also would have bet big $$ against it. Not now, though.

 

But I guess it makes sense given that when the wall comes for a QB (and it always does, kale smoothies and roasted beets or not) it comes quickly.

 

You're using language like you know something from someone important.

 

It's this "tone of voice" on the internet that has had me thinking an asteroid is going to crash into Earth on Tuesday so many times before.

 

[CommonCents]

Simple. He is the go to guy when you need a tuck rule explanation. Other than that he is a good QB who may or may not be on adderal and have an open mic in his helmet.

[The Age of Aquarius]

Brady's legacy will be marked with an asterisk, like Canseco, Bonds, McGuire. Unlike Baseball, NFL isn't capable of dealing with the truth, it doesn't want to destroy its brand. So its media department and NFL films will buff out all the warts from memory as time goes by, and make Brady the greatest. But those of us who lived in this time remember the truth: the QB who was a tool for the greatest cheater in NFL history. Yes he had an arm, but you'd always wonder, would he have won all those games without Belicheat. If he was elsewhere, fell to another team in 6th round, would he still be around? Is he just a shade better than Matt Cassel and end up with a similar career? In the end he was more lucky than Great. That's the Tom Brady story.

I've felt this way for so long, but have started to change my way of thinking.

I can't believe what I'm about to say, but... sigh.... I almost respect them for the cheating.

I heard that Greg Williams speech--it really is a war out there. These guys are going up against roided up monsters trying to knock them senseless. It's war, in some sense of the word--as gladitorial as it may seem. Although a hidden camera might be "unethical", what are ethics when your opponent is literally trying to inflict a sufficient amount of damage to your brain to render you incapable of continuing play? That's life or death, in some sense of the word.

The Patriots developed "a system", in so far as from top to bottom, they've optimized their workflow. They are the corporate consultant's dream--not a wasted dollar, minute or idea at 1 Patriots Drive.

Our team, the Buffalo Bills, are wasting resources transitioning to a new head coach--the 4th time they've had to do this in 5 years, and countless numbers of coordinators. We have no excess resources to waste on things like corporate espionage--we can't even get our middle management right, lol.

The Patriots are a machine, man. The fact that they turned a 6th round frat boy into James Bond's offspring who can throw a spiral with his right hand and father illegitimate children with Hollywood actresses while dating Brazilian supermodels with his left hand (all while wearing uggs and drinking seaweed) detracts from neither of them and only compliments the greatness at the whole due to the utilization of the parts.

They are absolutely incredible and watching Chris Hogan become the best receiver in the NFL for 4 million dollars when Buffalo didn't want to give him a raise from 3 million dollars should tell you all you need to know about the differences in the BUSINESSES being run in Orchard Park and Foxborough Massachusetts.

[Talley56]

You lost a TON of credibility when you said Elway > Montana. Elway couldn't carry Montana jockstrap. My proof is simple, he couldn't win the big game until he got a running game. Meanwhile Montana constantly won no matter the running game.. heck he elevated a crappy KC team to a playoff team.

 

As for the Brady v Manning thing. I find it funny that a Bills fan is sticking to this even after almost every colt fan has conceded the argument to Brady.

Not sure what Colts fans have been saying this but I will say I don't know any so I can't speak to that.

 

As far as Elway>Montana, yes, adding Terrell Davis was huge, but Montana had a legendary HC, maybe the best WR of all time (granted for only 2 of his SB wins), and often times a great defense. That beats the RB situation. Elway was better.

[PatsFanNH]

Not sure what Colts fans have been saying this but I will say I don't know any so I can't speak to that.

 

As far as Elway>Montana, yes, adding Terrell Davis was huge, but Montana had a legendary HC, maybe the best WR of all time (granted for only 2 of his SB wins), and often times a great defense. That beats the RB situation. Elway was better.

Elevator had a great coach as well and i will ask you one question you need ONE drive for a SB win who do you want Elway or Montana. Outside of you I doubt you get one other person say Elway.

[iinii]

Wow that was a very very salty post.

You know the definition of luck? It's where opportunity and planning meet. Sounds great to me.

[iinii]

Wow. I didn't realize just how good I was at satire. Dude, for the hundredth time, I was kidding. Actually more than that, I was trying to make a point how ridiculous the 'Montana's 4-0 > Brady's 4-2' crowd sounded.

This board is populated by a lot of crack heads who spew hate filled propaganda like your so called satire daily. So excuse me for not smelling the elephant dung at the circus.

[Mister Defense]

I think, interestingly enough, he may have been better off losing yesterday because if they do in fact lose to the high flying Falcons now, and his Super Bowl record drops all the way to 4-3, his legacy takes an enormous hit.

 

At that point, you may have to start elevating such undefeated Super Bowl QB's as Doug Williams, Mark Rypien, Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, Joe Flacco- certainly Eli Manning- to maybe not all time greater QB's than Brady, but definitely all time greater Super Bowl performing QB's.

 

Please, someone tell me, that this person is just messing around, as he cannot be that out of touch with reality and rational thought to believe either of the monumentally irrational and ridiculous points quoted above-?

 

As I watch the news tonight, see what is happening in America now, it makes me realize that, yes, this person may actually believe these words. Maybe we have entered a new era where facts, logic, and common sense have been replaced by strange and irrational whims, daydreams, alternative realities.. And I think that America's schools may really be failing our students as badly as some believe..

 

But then I read his words above again, and think they are a joke, tongue in cheek.

 

Correct?

Edited January 29, 2017 by Mister Defense

[Dragonborn10]

1. He would be 3-3 right now if Seattle had given the ball to Lynch

2. Maj, I agree the salary cap era is a factor but so is the change is rules for the defense. You think Gronk would be so successful if Lott could do to him what he did to WR/TE in the 80's and 90's.

3. Montana in this era would be even greater than he was. My god, could you imagine Marino and that release in this era.

 

For me it is still Montana, followed closely by Brady, Elway, Young, Manning, Favre, Marino, Rodgers, Brees, and then perhaps Aikman.

 

Manning was terrible in the post-season.

[PatsFanNH]

1. He would be 3-3 right now if Seattle had given the ball to Lynch

2. Maj, I agree the salary cap era is a factor but so is the change is rules for the defense. You think Gronk would be so successful if Lott could do to him what he did to WR/TE in the 80's and 90's.

3. Montana in this era would be even greater than he was. My god, could you imagine Marino and that release in this era.

 

For me it is still Montana, followed closely by Brady, Elway, Young, Manning, Favre, Marino, Rodgers, Brees, and then perhaps Aikman.

 

Manning was terrible in the post-season.

1. Everyone ASSUMES that they be 3-3 but for some reason always fail to remember that the Hawks had SUCKED all year on goal to goal situations with a yard or less to go. There is a very good chance he is stuffed twice and then an incomplete pass on fourth down as well.

2. Yes because Gronk would still trample over the defenders

3. I agree but like anything that depends on what team he was on.

[CanadianFan]

I've felt this way for so long, but have started to change my way of thinking.

I can't believe what I'm about to say, but... sigh.... I almost respect them for the cheating.

I heard that Greg Williams speech--it really is a war out there. These guys are going up against roided up monsters trying to knock them senseless. It's war, in some sense of the word--as gladitorial as it may seem. Although a hidden camera might be "unethical", what are ethics when your opponent is literally trying to inflict a sufficient amount of damage to your brain to render you incapable of continuing play? That's life or death, in some sense of the word.

The Patriots developed "a system", in so far as from top to bottom, they've optimized their workflow. They are the corporate consultant's dream--not a wasted dollar, minute or idea at 1 Patriots Drive.

Our team, the Buffalo Bills, are wasting resources transitioning to a new head coach--the 4th time they've had to do this in 5 years, and countless numbers of coordinators. We have no excess resources to waste on things like corporate espionage--we can't even get our middle management right, lol.

The Patriots are a machine, man. The fact that they turned a 6th round frat boy into James Bond's offspring who can throw a spiral with his right hand and father illegitimate children with Hollywood actresses while dating Brazilian supermodels with his left hand (all while wearing uggs and drinking seaweed) detracts from neither of them and only compliments the greatness at the whole due to the utilization of the parts.

They are absolutely incredible and watching Chris Hogan become the best receiver in the NFL for 4 million dollars when Buffalo didn't want to give him a raise from 3 million dollars should tell you all you need to know about the differences in the BUSINESSES being run in Orchard Park and Foxborough Massachusetts.

 

yes they are a machine. a model of consistency. consistently cheats. who knows if they'd have won their first superbowl if they hadn't cheated and knew of the opponents gameplan? that SB win should have been taken away from them, the way Olympics take away gold medals if they catch someone cheating. Why wasn't it taken away? That's why NFL doesn't have the integrity that Olympics does. If they did, they'd have taken away the wins the cheaters got with their cheating. they didn't. And that's why there will always be asterisks. To Brady, to Belicheat.