BringBackFergy Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Not sure I've gotten an answer on this yet: can Whaley re-negotiate Tyrod's contract if the contract already guarantees him $27 million next year? I mean, it's a contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hammersticks Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Yes. They should offer him the vet minimum with escalators for performance. He'd be dumb not to take it, as he clearly he is a back up QB and no other team would want him at his already team friendly contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Not sure I've gotten an answer on this yet: can Whaley re-negotiate Tyrod's contract if the contract already guarantees him $27 million next year? I mean, it's a contract.You can. Hey Tyrod we want you back but have to relook this contract if you dont want to redo it we are not picking option. Then up to player to decide to do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr1 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Awful White QBs @AwfulWhiteQBs 6h 6 hours ago ARI, CAR, NE, NO are the only teams in the NFL who've scored more offensive TDs than the Bills during the Tyrod Taylor era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Awful White QBs @AwfulWhiteQBs 6h 6 hours ago ARI, CAR, NE, NO are the only teams in the NFL who've scored more offensive TDs than the Bills during the Tyrod Taylor era. He's terrible tho! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Not sure I've gotten an answer on this yet: can Whaley re-negotiate Tyrod's contract if the contract already guarantees him $27 million next year? I mean, it's a contract. No way! Contracts are iron clad and must always be honored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted December 28, 2016 Author Share Posted December 28, 2016 You can. Hey Tyrod we want you back but have to relook this contract if you dont want to redo it we are not picking option. Then up to player to decide to do it Last time I checked, a contract is an agreement which includes offer, acceptance, consideration and performance. Although some question Tyrod's performance, he played all year. Consideration was demonstrated between payment of salary and playing QB. I don't think they can change the terms of the contract now. Tyrod could sue for breach of contract I bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Last time I checked, a contract is an agreement which includes offer, acceptance, consideration and performance. Although some question Tyrod's performance, he played all year. Consideration was demonstrated between payment of salary and playing QB. I don't think they can change the terms of the contract now. Tyrod could sue for breach of contract I bet. Umm nope But nice attempt not getting into an IR return vs PUP discussion again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Umm nope But nice attempt not getting into an IR return vs PUP discussion again What about pinky swear oaths? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moshermw Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 With the 2014 Shwartz D, Bills have 2 playoff appearances and most likely an AFC CG appearance with this TT led O. For sure, the drought would be over. And in my little fantasy scenario, Bills should still be drafting a QB every draft - 3/4 rd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted December 28, 2016 Author Share Posted December 28, 2016 Umm nope But nice attempt not getting into an IR return vs PUP discussion again Nice try deflecting sound principles of contract that have been accepted by our society for well over 17 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estro Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Yes we could've also not given him a $6M raise this year and a ludicrous $27.5M option next year if we want to keep him. Unfortunately, the guy who gave him that assinine deal is out looking for our new HC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 What about pinky swear oaths? Now thats is a different story. Please tell me we didnt pinky swear with Tyrod Yes we could've also not given him a $6M raise this year and a ludicrous $27.5M option next year if we want to keep him. Unfortunately, the guy who gave him that assinine deal is out looking for our new HC. Might want to reas the OverTheCap article i posted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 NO.... you either exercise the team option or you don't. if you choose NOT to , then TT becomes an UFA....at which time you can then make a new offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Yes we could've also not given him a $6M raise this year and a ludicrous $27.5M option next year if we want to keep him. Unfortunately, the guy who gave him that assinine deal is out looking for our new HC. Why is it so crazy to think the quarterback who had the 8th highest passer rating in 2015 and currently the 17th highest and has led the Bills to the 8th rated offense in the league this season would deserve a salary with a cap hit that is only 20th in the league among quarterbacks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted December 28, 2016 Author Share Posted December 28, 2016 NO.... you either exercise the team option or you don't. if you choose NOT to , then TT becomes an UFA....at which time you can then make a new offer. So we can negotiate with him after we breach the contract? Makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 I hope you're joking?? I mean someone with over 11,000 posts can't be this ignorant about basic NFL football contracts can you?? You are however 100% correct, contracts can't be broken and TT could sue for breach of contract. Except for one little tiny problem. All the bills have to do is say, we're now cutting you prior to I believe it's 3 days after the start of the new calendar year and there is no contract that was broken. It no longer exists and everyone goes their merry way. Well TT goes his merry way with slightly lighter pockets. Last time I checked, a contract is an agreement which includes offer, acceptance, consideration and performance. Although some question Tyrod's performance, he played all year. Consideration was demonstrated between payment of salary and playing QB. I don't think they can change the terms of the contract now. Tyrod could sue for breach of contract I bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 I hope you're joking?? I mean someone with over 11,000 posts can't be this ignorant about basic NFL football contracts can you?? You are however 100% correct, contracts can't be broken and TT could sue for breach of contract. Except for one little tiny problem. All the bills have to do is say, we're now cutting you prior to I believe it's 3 days after the start of the new calendar year and there is no contract that was broken. It no longer exists and everyone goes their merry way. Well TT goes his merry way with slightly lighter pockets. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 OK you are technically correct, but prior to the date they need to exercise the option they can talk informally with TT, "we need to redo the contact to this amount, will you agree?" If yes then the Bills void the contract so for about five minutes he's a FA, then they sign the new one already agreed to. Now it would be possible, during that five minutes, TT could say Ha Ha fooled you, I'm not signing it, but that doesn't happen at this level as an agent isn't going to lose all credibility NO....you either exercise the team option or you don't.if you choose NOT to , then TT becomes an UFA....at which time you can then make a new offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted December 28, 2016 Author Share Posted December 28, 2016 I hope you're joking?? I mean someone with over 11,000 posts can't be this ignorant about basic NFL football contracts can you?? You are however 100% correct, contracts can't be broken and TT could sue for breach of contract. Except for one little tiny problem. All the bills have to do is say, we're now cutting you prior to I believe it's 3 days after the start of the new calendar year and there is no contract that was broken. It no longer exists and everyone goes their merry way. Well TT goes his merry way with slightly lighter pockets. Most of my 11000 posts are just a bunch of "this" and "I agree". I didn't see this question raised (about whether our GM thought about paying Tyrod less money) so thanks for clarifying what I originally thought - that we could be in trouble if we don't pay the man. I'm sure Pegula has good attorneys but they shouldn't have been put in this situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 OK you are technically correct, but prior to the date they need to exercise the option they can talk informally with TT, "we need to redo the contact to this amount, will you agree?" If yes then the Bills void the contract so for about five minutes he's a FA, then they sign the new one already agreed to. Now it would be possible, during that five minutes, TT could say Ha Ha fooled you, I'm not signing it, but that doesn't happen at this level as an agent isn't going to lose all credibility yes....but if i'm TT's agent....if the bills don't like the current deal....then I want to be dealing from a position of strength....meaning become a UFA.....teams like Cleveland, jets, SF may be very interested. I cant see the bills saying look...your future 20th highest paid QB contract we negotiated last season averaging $17 mil per year is a bit too high....would you do $15 ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 yes....but if i'm TT's agent....if the bills don't like the current deal....then I want to be dealing from a position of strength....meaning become a UFA.....teams like Cleveland, jets, SF may be very interested. I cant see the bills saying look...your future 20th highest paid QB contract we negotiated last season averaging $17 mil per year is a bit too high....would you do $15 ??? And if they are not interested lost all your leverage and now its even less Its a gamble on both parts really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 And if they are not interested lost all your leverage and now its even less Its a gamble on both parts really It's not a gamble for Taylor. Top 10 PFF grade in his first two seasons as starter for a perennial loser. Top 10 offense both years (first time in over a decade). Top 10 passer rating in 2015, 17th this season. 7th QBR in 2015, 11th in 2016. Not every GM is as incompetent and dense as Doug Whaley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Awful White QBs @AwfulWhiteQBs 6h 6 hours ago ARI, CAR, NE, NO are the only teams in the NFL who've scored more offensive TDs than the Bills during the Tyrod Taylor era. What is the % of Passing TDs vs Rushing TDs vs QB Rushing TDs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Nice try deflecting sound principles of contract that have been accepted by our society for well over 17 years. You could have simply said, from the dawn of civilization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 And if they are not interested lost all your leverage and now its even less Its a gamble on both parts really i'd say advantage TT the going rate for a current starting nfl qb is $20 mil/yr (osweiller, tannehill) TT will be getting that if he becomes an UFA. the bills without TT will be a chit show of has-beens. i'd say the chances of TT getting more money is greater than the bills getting a better QB than TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBuff423 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Personally, I don't want it re-negotiated, I just want Tyrod to take the exit door. Re-structuring simply enables the problem at a lower cost, it doesn't solve the lack of passing issues for Tyrod or this team. If Glennon becomes available via FA, sign him, Draft a quality QB with real NFL potential, and let Glennon be the bridge. He has gotten a raw deal - but I think he's the kind of QB that Buffalo could win with now, IF and it's a huge a** IF, the next HC and DC can bring the Defense back to life.....doesn't have to be top 5, but top 10....all other factors remaining pretty constant, and Glennon is the "type" of QB that can win in Buffalo, IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 (edited) Legally it is very simple - the Bills have two options: 1. Pick up the option and Tyrod gets paid the $27.5m in guarantees ($16m against the 2017 cap); OR 2. The Bills do not pick up the option and they release Tyrod before the third day of the new league year. What is being asked is whether, in theory, the Bills could approach Tyrod before then and say "would you renegotiate, give back some guaranteed cash for a potential non guaranteed salary bump (likely in 2018 or 2019?)" That is basically what Kaepernick did this year with San Fran to allow him to get on the field - he negotiated out certain injury guarantees. The question is where is the incentive for Tyrod to do that? It would, in reality, be akin to saying "you bet on yourself to prove it last year at $9m but we are still not sure so if we pay you $16m this year would you bet on yourself again and we can put this decision off another year but with a potential bigger payday down the line?" I don't think Tyrod does that unless he believes there is no market for him at a long term Osweiler type price around the league. Even if he does my view is that the MOST the Bills would get is some guarantees back. They do not reduce their 2017 cap hit but it does become much more of a 1 year deal. There is nothing legally or contractually (so far as we know... you can have clauses in contracts that prevent renegotiation for a certain period) to stop the Bills renegotiating in this way during January and February. But there is little incentive in my view for Tyrod to listen. If I was him I would say "no way... you guys have to make the decision. Pay me or cut me." I actually think EJ starting Sunday helps Tyrod. If EJ craps the bed then suddenly Tyrod's bottom 3rd starter play starts to look real appealing. I remain 50/50 on the option but if they could renegotiate it to another 1 year deal and get any risk for 2018 out I would take it up I think. Edited December 28, 2016 by GunnerBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 So we can negotiate with him after we breach the contract? Makes no sense. If we do not pick up the option, he's automatically cut, meaning he's automatically an UFA, meaning he can sign with anyone, meaning we can offer him a new contract, meaning he'll probably tell us to go pound sand. I see no way TT comes back to Buffalo if we don't pick up his option. I wouldn't. Another team will sign him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 What is the % of Passing TDs vs Rushing TDs vs QB Rushing TDs.Do rushing TDs earn fewer points than passing ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Last time I checked, a contract is an agreement which includes offer, acceptance, consideration and performance. Although some question Tyrod's performance, he played all year. Consideration was demonstrated between payment of salary and playing QB. I don't think they can change the terms of the contract now. Tyrod could sue for breach of contract I bet. it's called 'renegotiation' - as in you negotiate all over again and sign a new contract. If they don't agree on a renegotiated deal, the current one stays in place. Personally, I don't want it re-negotiated, I just want Tyrod to take the exit door. Re-structuring simply enables the problem at a lower cost, it doesn't solve the lack of passing issues for Tyrod or this team. If Glennon becomes available via FA, sign him, Draft a quality QB with real NFL potential, and let Glennon be the bridge. He has gotten a raw deal - but I think he's the kind of QB that Buffalo could win with now, IF and it's a huge a** IF, the next HC and DC can bring the Defense back to life.....doesn't have to be top 5, but top 10....all other factors remaining pretty constant, and Glennon is the "type" of QB that can win in Buffalo, IMHO. I woudn't be confident in bringing in Glennon or any other QB that sat on the bench for 2 years. Flaws and all, our offense is pretty solid when healthy, and pretty decent when not. If you bring him in as a backup , ok, but I would spend all our energies on getting a strong coaching staff with a strong DC. As many have posted, this offense with an even marginally better defense has us in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayFinkle Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Personally, I don't want it re-negotiated, I just want Tyrod to take the exit door...all other factors remaining pretty constant, and Glennon is the "type" of QB that can win in Buffalo, IMHO. A big immobile white guy with a history of making bad decisions? Sign me up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 If Bill keep Whaley and Lynn, Taylor has all the leverage. Whaley doesn't have the time for a rebuild. There'd be no reason for Tyrod to consider a re-structure. Despite the Pegulas saying Whaley is leading coaching search, I still think Whaley gets fired with the Tyrod contract the final nail in coffin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBuff423 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 A big immobile white guy with a history of making bad decisions? Sign me up! Personally, I don't want a mobile QB...I want a strict pocket-passer who can mentally adjust to the NFL game and read Defenses, see Manning and Brady. As for making bad decisions...really? So, young QBs can't develop? Really? Um, ok. it's called 'renegotiation' - as in you negotiate all over again and sign a new contract. If they don't agree on a renegotiated deal, the current one stays in place. I woudn't be confident in bringing in Glennon or any other QB that sat on the bench for 2 years. Flaws and all, our offense is pretty solid when healthy, and pretty decent when not. If you bring him in as a backup , ok, but I would spend all our energies on getting a strong coaching staff with a strong DC. As many have posted, this offense with an even marginally better defense has us in the playoffs. And I'm not beating the drum for Glennon, just used him as an example. As for Tyrod, I want no part of him in a Bills uniform next year for any reason....but, that's me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 i'd say advantage TT the going rate for a current starting nfl qb is $20 mil/yr (osweiller, tannehill) TT will be getting that if he becomes an UFA. the bills without TT will be a chit show of has-beens. i'd say the chances of TT getting more money is greater than the bills getting a better QB than TT Pretty much. If im TT im almost hoping they dont pick up the option. He will be underpaid in Buffalo. Not to mention under appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Jerky Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Do rushing TDs earn fewer points than passing ones? How long is he going to be able to keep up those Rushing TD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Personally, I don't want a mobile QB...I want a strict pocket-passer who can mentally adjust to the NFL game and read Defenses, see Manning and Brady. As for making bad decisions...really? So, young QBs can't develop? Really? Um, ok. And I'm not beating the drum for Glennon, just used him as an example. As for Tyrod, I want no part of him in a Bills uniform next year for any reason....but, that's me. i recognize Taylor's shortcomings like everyone else does, but as has been said many times, offense isn't our problem. I don't get the hate for TT. Especially with no obvious better replacement on the roster or as far as we know , readily available. How long is he going to be able to keep up those Rushing TD? 3 more years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBuff423 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 i recognize Taylor's shortcomings like everyone else does, but as has been said many times, offense isn't our problem. I don't get the hate for TT. Especially with no obvious better replacement on the roster or as far as we know , readily available. 3 more years. But for me, that's like saying we can't take a risk on a young developing QB because we don't know what he's capable of, yet that's the very reason you take the young QB...?? Favre wasn't Favre until he did it, Brady was a 6th round also-ran until injury forced him into the role...the list goes on. You take a good QB in the Draft, let him learn the Offense and develop for a year or two, and get a bridge QB who is a POCKET PASSER that can move WITHIN the pocket instead of breaking contain....a tall, pocket passer that can read Defenses (to me) would generate even more Offense and a much improved passing game. As for Offense not being the problem, well to some degree that's flawed. Look at the Oakland game, first Miami game, first Jets game, 2nd Pats game....these were games where WRs were running open and TT couldn't get them the ball, he does not allow for too many YAC because of poor ball placement and controlling the clock, keeping the Bills Defense on the bench, was the KEY to winning, but TT couldn't do it....so, yes, Defense is CERTAINLY an big issue, but those issues were exacerbated by a poorly run Offense by a QB that cannot continue to function within the boundaries of an NFL system.....again, all IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCbillsfan Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 NFL teams get their players to redo contracts on a fairly regular basis. The Bills could approach Tyrod but who know if he'll agree to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 How long is he going to be able to keep up those Rushing TD? How long is Tom Brady going to be good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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