Buffalo_Gal Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Do you believe it's the United States' job/mandate/mission to protect every single civilian in the world at all times? Or do other countries have to take responsibility for waging war and the collateral damage it causes? So, I am OOT on vacation with hubby and on this portion of the trip my SIL, and my SIL's friend (born British, now a Swiss citizen) have joined us, and holy cow, the friend thinks the US is responsible for policing, and paying for, all the world civilians protection. It it is mind boggling that a US citizen can think that way, and completely detached from reality that a Swiss citizen should think US citizens should be paying in blood and treasure to police the world. i have been biting my tongue a lot. Edited October 11, 2019 by Buffalo_Gal 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 26 minutes ago, Warcodered said: Do you believe we have no responsibility for consequences of our own actions? Thats, a dodge not an answer. We are still supporting the Kurds, and tending to our responsibilities. Unless you believe the question I posed and you dodged of course. Which is why I asked your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 US to deploy 3,000 additional troops to Saudi Arabia Pentagon says troops and equipment are meant to boost Saudi Arabia's defences after attacks on its oil facilities. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/10/deploy-large-number-forces-saudi-arabia-report-191011160852019.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 8 hours ago, Buffalo_Gal said: So, I am OOT on vacation with hubby and on this portion of the trip my SIL, and my SIL's friend (born British, now a Swiss citizen) have joined us, and holy cow, the friend thinks the US is responsible for policing, and paying for, all the world civilians protection. It it is mind boggling that a US citizen can think that way, and completely detached from reality that a Swiss citizen should think US citizens should be paying in blood and treasure to police the world. i have been biting my tongue a lot. Hang in there. Have a few drinks, sit back, and just treat it all as entertainment. It's what I do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 9 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said: Thats, a dodge not an answer. We are still supporting the Kurds, and tending to our responsibilities. Unless you believe the question I posed and you dodged of course. Which is why I asked your opinion. Not so much a dodge as I didn't think the situation you framed with your question was the same as the situation we were discussing but whatever. To answer your question which isn't really a simple yes or no question, I'd say yes within reason. I mean the question really isn't simple at all as to what a government's job/mission is I'd say it's to take care of it's people and act out their will within and without. I mean if just randomly asked if we should protect people I'd feel morally obliged to say yes but the reality is the world is complicated and imperfect. I mean just operating blindly on the concept of helping and protecting people we'd be in North Korea and the unimaginable cluster ***** that would entail. So yeah the best answer I can think of for that is yes within reason. 10 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said: Or do other countries have to take responsibility for waging war and the collateral damage it causes? On this one person bearing responsibility for something does not magically absolve someone else from their responsibility. Well good news everyone this move has worked flawlessly to remove hostages and prevent the worst case scenario 13 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said: Turkey isn't the only active entity in the region. Russia's there, Iran's there, and all their proxies. If they pop off and take out a few of our troops -- what would the response be from the US? We'd have to respond. https://www.newsweek.com/us-troops-syria-turkey-1464727 Exclusive: Turkey Attacks US Special Forces in Syria, Apparently by Mistake Well *****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 So we've moved on from complaining about the US abandoning the Kurds by removing forces from Syria, to Turkey attacking US forces in Syria alongside the Kurds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 7 minutes ago, DC Tom said: So we've moved on from complaining about the US abandoning the Kurds by removing forces from Syria, to Turkey attacking US forces in Syria alongside the Kurds? It’s complicated Tom. ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 48 minutes ago, DC Tom said: So we've moved on from complaining about the US abandoning the Kurds by removing forces from Syria, to Turkey attacking US forces in Syria alongside the Kurds? Yes. You are further expected to be appropriately outraged by this new development, while not forgetting to remain sufficiently outraged by the previous talking point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 Seriously, to HELL with that whole part of the world. Let them all murder each other, then whoever's left, we'll deal with. Get every American out of that region, TODAY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 Again, there is no possible easy answer except if one auto-hates every move by the US Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in Mich Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 Look, if the solution can't be chanted at a Trump rally, it's never going to work. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 I’m sitting in a hotel in Amsterdam watching TV where a bunch of pompous Brits are talking about how the US needs to do something. Not once have they suggested that their own country should do a darn thing or spend a single British pound. Someone explain to me how this situation is a US problem again? 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 1 hour ago, row_33 said: Again, there is no possible easy answer except if one auto-hates every move by the US ....for how long and at what cost do we CONTINUE to be the global "Mother Protector"?.......how many BILLIONS in foreign aid have been usurped by corrupt governments?.....better yet, here we are trying to force feed the "world's greatest democracy" which Trump has woefully exposed as potentially and equally corrupt?.....the UN is THE biggest and most farcical (DIS)organization on the planet......bigger NYC squatters than SF's homeless......have no problem with him reigning in the fiscal drain....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 11 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: I’m sitting in a hotel in Amsterdam watching TV where a bunch of pompous Brits are talking about how the US needs to do something. Not once have they suggested that their own country should do a darn thing or spend a single British pound. Someone explain to me how this situation is a US problem again? The Brits did do something. They created this whole mess. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 13 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: I’m sitting in a hotel in Amsterdam watching TV where a bunch of pompous Brits are talking about how the US needs to do something. Not once have they suggested that their own country should do a darn thing or spend a single British pound. Someone explain to me how this situation is a US problem again? When we beat the Axis (certainly with the help of Russia) we generally chose to help those countries out by rebuilding them instead of raping their women and forcing them to join our union. Germany and Japan looked at each other, winked and said "we've found our mark". Our generosity is expected even though we are scorned for having the capacity to be so generous. Trump is trying to get the EU, NATO and others to realize that they have to contribute to their own defense in a fair way. They are the delinquent renter who cries out against eviction because he never had to keep current with his rent before. Well, times are changing. The USA is not a lottery winner. We've earned our prosperity on the backs and blood of our forefathers. Let's not forget that we need to earn our progeny their freedom and prosperity by doing our part. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 10 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: When we beat the Axis (certainly with the help of Russia) we generally chose to help those countries out by rebuilding them instead of raping their women and forcing them to join our union. Germany and Japan looked at each other, winked and said "we've found our mark". Our generosity is expected even though we are scorned for having the capacity to be so generous. Trump is trying to get the EU, NATO and others to realize that they have to contribute to their own defense in a fair way. They are the delinquent renter who cries out against eviction because he never had to keep current with his rent before. Well, times are changing. The USA is not a lottery winner. We've earned our prosperity on the backs and blood of our forefathers. Let's not forget that we need to earn our progeny their freedom and prosperity by doing our part. All correct but what I find fascinating at this particular moment is that EU members couldn’t give a rats behind about Kurds. They’re all totally consumed with their own internal drama over Brexit. They want the US to take care of Turkey so they don’t have to spend a spare second worrying about what they’re going to do with the millions of refugees they fear will flood north into Europe. It’s selfishness on display in a grand scale! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 ROGER SIMON: Trump Makes Real Progress with China while Dems Play Impeachment. It’s incumbent on us to find the better, more moderate parts of the regime and subtly encourage them (forming economic ties that work is one way) while still making sure that as Americans we see and sympathize with the cause of the democracy demonstrators. Thus far, Trump has done a rather accomplished job of this for a “diplomatic amateur,” letting his sharp criticism of the brainless, pandering comments of NBA managers Steve Kerr and Gregg Popovich–their absurd and stunningly ignorant claims of human rights equivalency between the USA and Communist China–make clear his feelings about the protestors in Hong Kong. Meanwhile, the president publicly praises depots like Xi and Kim, much to the consternation of the CNNs of the world. It’s a strategy, obviously. It’s not clear the extent to which it will work. But if it does even some of the time, it’s miles ahead of what his predecessors ever did. Read the whole thing. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 10 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: When we beat the Axis (certainly with the help of Russia) we generally chose to help those countries out by rebuilding them instead of raping their women and forcing them to join our union. Germany and Japan looked at each other, winked and said "we've found our mark". Our generosity is expected even though we are scorned for having the capacity to be so generous. Trump is trying to get the EU, NATO and others to realize that they have to contribute to their own defense in a fair way. They are the delinquent renter who cries out against eviction because he never had to keep current with his rent before. Well, times are changing. The USA is not a lottery winner. We've earned our prosperity on the backs and blood of our forefathers. Let's not forget that we need to earn our progeny their freedom and prosperity by doing our part. ...so why is it that so many cannot accept your eloquent assessment here?....how come?.......how many past administrations fraudulently talked the "tough talk" and did NOTHING?......how many candidates purported to be a "Washington outsider" who would clean up the mess if elected, only to be "Washington INSIDERS"?.... as if they would bite the hand that feeds 'em and turn the "good 'ol boyz network" upside down....so now we have one who has pissed off the progressives even more who hate us as the "world's bullies".....what the hell was O-Blah-Blah-Blah's "world apology tour" all about then?....to borrow Nicholson's line from "A few Good Men", "you (THEY) can't handle the TRUTH"...SMH.._ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, B-Man said: ROGER SIMON: Trump Makes Real Progress with China while Dems Play Impeachment. It’s incumbent on us to find the better, more moderate parts of the regime and subtly encourage them (forming economic ties that work is one way) while still making sure that as Americans we see and sympathize with the cause of the democracy demonstrators. Thus far, Trump has done a rather accomplished job of this for a “diplomatic amateur,” letting his sharp criticism of the brainless, pandering comments of NBA managers Steve Kerr and Gregg Popovich–their absurd and stunningly ignorant claims of human rights equivalency between the USA and Communist China–make clear his feelings about the protestors in Hong Kong. Meanwhile, the president publicly praises depots like Xi and Kim, much to the consternation of the CNNs of the world. It’s a strategy, obviously. It’s not clear the extent to which it will work. But if it does even some of the time, it’s miles ahead of what his predecessors ever did. Read the whole thing. . While Trump is working hard on trying to improve our prosperity the Left is working hard on trying to subvert any progress. This while needing a tremendous boost in our economy to even gain a tiny bit of their proposed socialistic programs. "Realism", a word not in the Left's vocabulary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 https://mobile.twitter.com/MarkSleboda1/status/1183066332901904390 FSA >>> AQ 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 A SENSIBLE TAKE ON SYRIA Liberals’ foreign policy views are inconsistent, but entirely predictable: whatever a Republican president does, they oppose. Thus, Democrats applauded when President Obama prematurely withdrew American troops from Iraq, enabling the rise of ISIS. But when President Trump pulled a few hundred out of Syria, it was: OMG! The Kurds! James Carafano of the Heritage Foundation and the Institute of World Politics gave an interview to the Daily Signal that gives the best take I have seen on Trump’s recent Syria move. You really should read it all, but here are some highlights: When President Trump came in office, he actually expanded the U.S. footprint in Syria, because military advisers made the argument that … you couldn’t take down the caliphate—in other words, destroy the physical state that the terrorist had—if we didn’t actually have forces in there working with indigenous groups that were fighting ISIS, chief among them, the YPG, which is an armed Kurdish group. And so President Trump actually increased the U.S. footprint in Syria. Then subsequent to that, after the caliphate was destroyed, the president wanted to withdraw U.S. troops. The military advisers and several allies, including Israel, said, “Well, look, there’s still concerns that need to be addressed.” So we’ve maintained a small footprint in Syria for the last year or so. *** [W]e estimate it’s a relatively small print of a few hundred Americans in uniform that are spread around the areas that are not controlled by the Syrian government. *** Let’s start by what the Turks are doing. They’re not invading Syria. There is a portion of Syria which borders Turkey, which right now is kind of uncontrolled. Nobody really controls the port. The Syrian government doesn’t control the border. There are Kurdish groups in that area and the Turks wanted to control that area. It’s several kilometers wide, so it’s really a small chunk of Syria. Why do they want to control it? Well, one, they don’t want it to be a platform for Kurdish terrorist groups, not the Kurdish people. There’s a difference, right? There are Kurds all over the region. There are Kurds in Iran. There are Kurds in Iraq. There are Kurds in Syria. There are Kurds in other places. So when you say the Kurds, that’s a lot of people spread all over the Middle East, but there are Kurdish groups which are affiliated with specific terrorist groups, like the PKK, which is a terrorist group [that] … focuses on attacking Turkey. So they don’t want terrorist groups to use that area as a platform to attack Turkey. They want to control their border and they would like to create a space because they have probably a million refugees or more from Syria that are living in Turkey. The Turks would like to create a space so those people can move back into Syria. It’s a relatively limited objective that the Turks have outlined. *** What did the U.S. do? Well, if you actually read the statement of the Department of Defense, which actually explains this, we didn’t give permission for the Turks to do this. They didn’t ask permission. And the reality is we can’t stop them from doing this. We have a couple of hundred soldiers in the entire country. We don’t have enough … to prevent the Turks from doing anything unless we’re going to start bombing the Turkish military, which I don’t think we’re going to do. MORE AT THE LINK: 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 On 10/10/2019 at 10:34 AM, DC Tom said: Let's also not forget that there are three different Kurdish groups in Syria that are internationally designated terrorist organizations - the KPP, the YPG, and Ansar al-Islam. Which, not coincidentally, are who the Turkish are fighting. Primarily the KPP, which has been recognized as a terrorist organization by all of NATO since the 80s. I think you mean the PKK. Our Syria policy has been so incoherent from the beginning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Doc Brown said: I think you mean the PKK. Our Syria policy has been so incoherent from the beginning. By design. (bigger the quagmire, the bigger the payoff) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 (edited) About 950 ISIS-connected foreigners (relatives) managed to leave the camp, located in Ain Eissa, roughly 20 miles south of the border, after detainees apparently attacked the camp's guards and gates and fled, the Kurdish-led administration said in a statement. The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, based in Britain, said Turkish warplanes struck villages near the camp on Sunday. https://www.foxnews.com/world/syria-isis-supporters-escape-camp-kurds Edited October 13, 2019 by ALF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Zevon Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 U.S. troops evacuate Syrian town as Turkish-led forces advance, potentially marooning U.S. soldiers Hundreds of Islamic State supporters may have escaped from a camp housing displaced people in the town of Ain Issa, taking advantage of the mayhem. By Liz Sly, Louisa Loveluck and Sarah Dadouch 57 minutes ago U.S. forces say Turkey fired artillery near them deliberately Turkish-led forces film themselves executing a Kurdish captive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 14 minutes ago, Gary Busey said: Man, just think about how bloody those hands would be if he ordered as many drone strikes against civilians as Obama did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 whataboutism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Zevon Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, Koko78 said: Man, just think about how bloody those hands would be if he ordered as many drone strikes against civilians as Obama did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 40 minutes ago, Gary Busey said: I'm sorry, the correct answer features TWO scoops. TWO scoops. But hey. thanks for playing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 JOHN HINDERAKER: “What the Democrats fear most is happening: President Trump and his negotiating team are reaching wide-ranging agreements with China that will be a huge boon to the United States.” 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 We're tired of endless wars -- and have been for a decade. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Tiberius said: whataboutism I really despise hypocrites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Gary Busey said: On 10/12/2019 at 9:05 AM, Koko78 said: Yes. You are further expected to be appropriately outraged by this new development, while not forgetting to remain sufficiently outraged by the previous talking point. Okay, fine. Just explain to me how Turkey's bombing US troops that were removed from Syria, and I'll be outraged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, DC Tom said: Just explain to me how Turkey's bombing US troops that were removed from Syria, and I'll be outraged. Who the ***** has time for that when there's OUTRAGE to be had? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 (edited) And don't bother with your weakass "whataboutism" reply Try and explain your hypocrisy But there were important reasons for that. According to the very same people who now scream bloody murder 8:42 AM - 13 Oct 2019 Jesse KellyVerified account @JesseKellyDC 1h1 hour ago I have sympathy for the Kurds. But since it’s the foreign policy of the most powerful nation on earth and not kindergarten class, I don’t make decisions based on sympathy. . Edited October 13, 2019 by B-Man 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 1 hour ago, B-Man said: JOHN HINDERAKER: “What the Democrats fear most is happening: President Trump and his negotiating team are reaching wide-ranging agreements with China that will be a huge boon to the United States.” ...pathetically farcical how "limps on BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE" talked the tough talk about the China trade imbalance and did SQUAT......so now we FINALLY get the "REAL Washington Outsider" begged for who goes after them like all previous cowards had no bawls to do so.....and MAGA is a ruse, farce, a clown wanting his own library, book deal(s), wealth and power, free room and board at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave AND the 400 grand a year that the position pays.... in my 66 years, I have NEVER seen this great country as effed up as it is today.....here we are peddling the alleged "world's greatest democracy" to other nations rife with corruption when the depth and extent of graft, partisan political, and downright corruption has been woefully exposed by the dreaded "outsider".....we're stinking and sinking........ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 The ball is now in Congress’ court. Trump critics can now put their money where their mouth is. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 Good. https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-middle-east-50036901?__twitter_impression=true ... https://mobile.twitter.com/aaronjmate/status/1183508826928095234 Syria and the Kurds v Turkey and the FSA(AQ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 16 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Good. https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-middle-east-50036901?__twitter_impression=true ... https://mobile.twitter.com/aaronjmate/status/1183508826928095234 Syria and the Kurds v Turkey and the FSA(AQ). Gee, it's almost like there's no monolithic group of "Kurds," but various factions that fight and ally with each other as convenient. Wasn't somebody asking "Who are the Kurds?" on this board a few days ago? I can't recall... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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