Trump foreign policy

[ALF]

Nikki Haley says Trump's Syria decision means leaving US allies 'to die'

 

Washington (CNN)Nikki Haley, President Donald Trump's former ambassador to the United Nations, issued stinging criticism of her former boss on Monday, saying Trump's decision to remove US troops from northern Syria as Turkey plans a military offensive in the region means the US is leaving Kurdish allies "to die."

 

"We must always have the backs of our allies, if we expect them to have our back. The Kurds were instrumental in our successful fight against ISIS in Syria. Leaving them to die is a big mistake. #TurkeyIsNotOurFriend," Haley, who also served as governor of South Carolina, wrote in a tweet.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/07/politics/nikki-haley-donald-trump-syria-troops-brett-mcgurk/index.html

[Tiberius]

14 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

The joke is at Kristol and Boot's expense. Not the Kurds. 

 

Surely you don't wish to defend Kristol or Boot just to get a dig in on Trump, no? 

Just wondering what will happen to our allies over there once we pull out. Genocide? Turks hate the Kurds 

[B-Man]

 

 

 

 

U.S. Consents to a Turkish Invasion in Syria; Kurdish Forces Call It ‘A Stab in the Back.’ 

 

It is, however, kind of funny to see some people who told us that Trump was going to get us into endless wars now complaining that he’s not starting anything here.

 

Personally, I think this is a bad move and I don’t like anything that gives Erdogan more power. However, I rather doubt the claim, aired in Reason at the link, that this is about Trump’s hotels in Turkey. And, really, that article is mostly evidence of how impossible it is to talk about foreign affairs, or anything, really, intelligently in the age of Trump Derangement.

 

 

UPDATE: Yeah, pretty much:

 

 

 

So there’s a lot of interesting diplomacy going on in the region right now, and I suppose it’s possible that this deal is part of a larger scheme that makes sense, but if it were I think Nikki Haley would probably know that.

 

 

 

 

 

.

[ALF]

1 hour ago, DC Tom said:

 

Remember when pulling out of unfinished conflicts was a good thing?  Seems like it was only 10 years ago.

 

The Bush Administration later sought an agreement with the Iraqi government, and in 2008 George W. Bush signed the U.S.–Iraq Status of Forces Agreement.  It included a deadline of 31 December 2011, before which "all the United States Forces shall withdraw from all Iraqi territory"    The last U.S. troops left Iraq on 18 December 2011, in accordance with this agreement.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withdrawal_of_U.S._troops_from_Iraq

[3rdnlng]

11 minutes ago, ALF said:

 

The Bush Administration later sought an agreement with the Iraqi government, and in 2008 George W. Bush signed the U.S.–Iraq Status of Forces Agreement.  It included a deadline of 31 December 2011, before which "all the United States Forces shall withdraw from all Iraqi territory"    The last U.S. troops left Iraq on 18 December 2011, in accordance with this agreement.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withdrawal_of_U.S._troops_from_Iraq

This was true, unless we agreed to a new Status of Forces Agreement with Iraq. Iraq was expecting us to do so, but Obama skedaddled. I didn't even have to look that up.

[B-Man]

 

 

Lindsey Graham: Congress Will Sanction Turkey And Call For Its Suspension From NATO If It Attacks The Kurds

https://hotair.com/archives/allahpundit/2019/10/07/lindsey-graham-congress-will-sanction-turkey-call-suspension-nato-attacks-kurds/

 

 

 

 

[Deranged Rhino]

 

[Tiberius]

Withdrawing US forces from Northern Syria is a catastrophic mistake that puts our gains against ISIS at risk and threatens US security.

This decision ignores lesson of 9/11. Terrorists thousands of miles away can and will use their safe-havens to launch attacks against America.

— Liz Cheney (@Liz_Cheney) October 7, 2019

Oh, another favor to a foreign leader? What favor was done here? 

 

The decision came after a telephone call with President Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey. 

[Tiberius]

S

McConnell warns Trump against withdrawing U.S. forces from northern Syria

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) also urged the president to “exercise American leadership.” In a rare show of bipartisanship, congressional Republicans and Democrats largely were unified in criticizing Trump's move.

• By Toluse Olorunnipa
• 1 hour ago

wow 

[B-Man]

 

 

LOL................?

 

 

Life comes at ya’ FAST! Ted Lieu’s tweet taunting and shaming Trump for keeping troops in Syria has NOT aged well

 

[meazza]

4 hours ago, B-Man said:

 

 

 

 

U.S. Consents to a Turkish Invasion in Syria; Kurdish Forces Call It ‘A Stab in the Back.’ 

 

It is, however, kind of funny to see some people who told us that Trump was going to get us into endless wars now complaining that he’s not starting anything here.

 

Personally, I think this is a bad move and I don’t like anything that gives Erdogan more power. However, I rather doubt the claim, aired in Reason at the link, that this is about Trump’s hotels in Turkey. And, really, that article is mostly evidence of how impossible it is to talk about foreign affairs, or anything, really, intelligently in the age of Trump Derangement.

 

 

UPDATE: Yeah, pretty much:

 

 

 

So there’s a lot of interesting diplomacy going on in the region right now, and I suppose it’s possible that this deal is part of a larger scheme that makes sense, but if it were I think Nikki Haley would probably know that.

 

 

 

 

 

.

Well according to DR those that don’t agree are neo cons...

[snafu]

4 hours ago, B-Man said:

 

 

U.S. Consents to a Turkish Invasion in Syria; Kurdish Forces Call It ‘A Stab in the Back.’ 

 

It is, however, kind of funny to see some people who told us that Trump was going to get us into endless wars now complaining that he’s not starting anything here.

 

Personally, I think this is a bad move and I don’t like anything that gives Erdogan more power. However, I rather doubt the claim, aired in Reason at the link, that this is about Trump’s hotels in Turkey. And, really, that article is mostly evidence of how impossible it is to talk about foreign affairs, or anything, really, intelligently in the age of Trump Derangement.

 

 

UPDATE: Yeah, pretty much:

 

 

So there’s a lot of interesting diplomacy going on in the region right now, and I suppose it’s possible that this deal is part of a larger scheme that makes sense, but if it were I think Nikki Haley would probably know that.

 

.

 

Getting out of Syria is a good thing.

Getting out and not leaving a void is a good thing, too.

Leaving Turkey to police the void is a scary proposition.  This is Turkey who recently had extended meetings with Russia and Iran.  This is Turkey who let Russia fly over their airspace.  This is Turkey who buys Russian material over US material.  This is Turkey who hates the Kurds.  This is Erdogan who's a totalitarian scumbag.

 

Haley is right, but the other choices were: (a) stay there, or (b) leave the Kurds to police the void, and that would have pushed Turkey (a NATO member) over the line, or (c) let Syria police their own people (not really an option with Assad's track record).

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Koko78]

22 minutes ago, snafu said:

Getting out of Syria is a good thing.

Getting out and not leaving a void is a good thing, too.

Leaving Turkey to police the void is a scary proposition.  This is Turkey who recently had extended meetings with Russia and Iran.  This is Turkey who let Russia fly over their airspace.  This is Turkey who buys Russian material over US material.  This is Turkey who hates the Kurds.  This is Erdogan who's a totalitarian scumbag.

 

Haley is right, but the other choices were: (a) stay there, or (b) leave the Kurds to police the void, and that would have pushed Turkey (a NATO member) over the line, or (c) let Syria police their own people (not really an option with Assad's track record).

 

I don't disagree with this, but there was a fourth choice: Allow Turkey to police the void with a very specific agreement on how they would treat the Kurds.

 

As it stands right now, we just abandoned our Kurdish allies to the wolves.

[Deranged Rhino]

55 minutes ago, meazza said:

Well according to DR those that don’t agree are neo cons...

 

No -- Kizinger, Kristol, and Boot are neocons. That's undeniable   

 

[DC Tom]

16 minutes ago, Koko78 said:

 

I don't disagree with this, but there was a fourth choice: Allow Turkey to police the void with a very specific agreement on how they would treat the Kurds.

 

As it stands right now, we just abandoned our Kurdish allies to the wolves.

 

There's a lot of assumptions and few verifiable facts in all this analysis.

[Hedge]

 

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

We never should have been in Syria to begin with.

 

 

[snafu]

1 hour ago, Koko78 said:

 

I don't disagree with this, but there was a fourth choice: Allow Turkey to police the void with a very specific agreement on how they would treat the Kurds.

 

As it stands right now, we just abandoned our Kurdish allies to the wolves.

 

50 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

There's a lot of assumptions and few verifiable facts in all this analysis.

 

^^^^ true, and maybe the facts will mitigate whatever downside there appears to be.  But do you think Turkey will be an honest broker of peace for the Kurds? Turkey has tended to like a bit of chaos so they can leverege the west against the east and vice versa (not that I totally blame them, they’re in a tough location). 

 

 

 

[Foxx]

https://twitter.com/AmichaiStein1/status/1181283542392872961

 

 

[njbuff]

47 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

We never should have been in Syria to begin with.

 

 

Amen brother.

 

We don’t belong anywhere near the Middle East.

 

How many of our young soldiers do we have to lose in war that no one can win?

 

The neocons in Washington, ON BOTH SIDES of the political isle, need to shut the fvck up and be happy our kids are finally coming home where they belong.

[3rdnlng]

2 hours ago, snafu said:

 

 

^^^^ true, and maybe the facts will mitigate whatever downside there appears to be.  But do you think Turkey will be an honest broker of peace for the Kurds? Turkey has tended to like a bit of chaos so they can leverege the west against the east and vice versa (not that I totally blame them, they’re in a tough location). 

 

 

 

Yes, they are literally straddling the fence between East and West.

[Deranged Rhino]

 

[snafu]

46 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

Yes, they are literally straddling the fence between East and West.

 

Russia, east.

Nato, west.

 

[B-Man]

 

 

WORST ISLAMOPHOBIC ADMINISTRATION EVER: U.S. Adds Chinese Firms to Blacklist, Citing Repression of Muslim Minorities.

 

The U.S. added 28 Chinese entities to an export blacklist Monday, citing their role in Beijing’s repression of Muslim minorities in northwest China, just days before high-level trade talks are set to resume in Washington.

 

The action, which the U.S. said wasn’t related to trade talks, was nonetheless likely to disturb Chinese officials already incensed over what Beijing sees as U.S. support for an increasingly disruptive pro-democracy movement in Hong Kong.

 

“I think the Chinese are probably going to see a connection, even if the administration says there isn’t one,” said Matthew Goodman, senior adviser for Asian economics at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, a Washington think tank. “It’s going to complicate the discussions this week…the timing is going to be awkward for the Chinese.”

 

Targets of the action include video-surveillance and facial-recognition giants Hangzhou Hikvision Digital Technology, Megvii Technology Inc. and SenseTime Group Ltd. The decision by the Commerce Department to add the firms to its “entity list” alongside telecommunications giant Huawei TechnologiesCo.—which was added in May—means suppliers will be barred from providing technology that originates in the U.S. to the Chinese firms without a license.

 

The newly identified entities “have been implicated in human rights violations and abuses in the implementation of China’s campaign of repression, mass arbitrary detention, and high-technology surveillance against Uighurs, Kazakhs, and other members of Muslim minority groups” in northwest China’s Xinjiang region, the Commerce Department said.

 

A spokesman said the move was unrelated to trade negotiations.

 

 

 

 

.

 

 

 

 

 

[ALF]

Top Kurdish general: Watching over ISIS prisoners now a 'second priority'

General Mazloum Kobani Abdi, of the Syrian Democratic Forces, said his fighters have been shifted to the border ahead of an expected assault by the Turks.

 

The detention centers hold 12,000 suspected terrorists swept up during the U.S.-led campaign against ISIS fighters in the region, according to Mazloum and U.S. officials. Of the 12,000, 2,000 are foreign fighters, and Iraqis and Syrians make up the remaining 10,000, Pentagon officials say.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/mideast/top-kurdish-general-watching-over-isis-prisoners-now-second-priority-n1063496

[Tiberius]

There's a Trump Towers in Istanbul 

 

Is that fact directing our foreign policy to abandon our allies to death and slaughter? 

[3rdnlng]

10 hours ago, snafu said:

 

Russia, east.

Nato, west.

 

I was thinking more like straddling continents.

[Nanker]

 

[Deranged Rhino]

 

 

 

[meazza]

Deranged rhino has gone from my favorite conspiracy theorist and a friend to a trump apologist (but still a friend )

[Deranged Rhino]

10 minutes ago, meazza said:

Deranged rhino has gone from my favorite conspiracy theorist and a friend to a trump apologist (but still a friend )

 

It's not being an apologist to share commentary on the subject at hand without making a comment  

 

I've done a ton of work on this region the past three years by default. My position is rooted in the facts brought to me by the men and women serving on the ground in theater, not Trump. And my desire to get out of endless wars on this site predates Trump's candidacy, let alone presidency, by a number of years. 

[Deranged Rhino]

 

 

There's more than one way to skin a cat.

[Albwan]

5 hours ago, Tiberius said:

There's a Trump Towers in Istanbul 

 

Is that fact directing our foreign policy to abandon our allies to death and slaughter? 

Do you literally ever think about anything beside trump??? wow wow wow

 

 

[Tiberius]

53 minutes ago, Albwan said:

Do you literally ever think about anything beside trump??? wow wow wow

 

 

Do you? What's your problem? Can't take a political message board? Loser 

[Foxx]

#endendlesswars

https://twitter.com/almostjingo/status/984402616531566592

 

[Foxx]

https://twitter.com/Avery1776/status/1181409859578847234

 

[B-Man]

TWO TAKES ON THE SYRIA DECISION THAT DISAGREE WITH THE CONVENTIONAL WISDOM:

 

(1) Security Studies Group: The Syria Decision.

As we warned at the time, the American position was much more exposed and much less tenable than was commonly understood. . . .

 

Just as allowing Iran to run wild hurts China much more than it hurts the United States, China is harmed by our allowing the Turks to provoke an insurgency that will bedevil the stability of the very region where China intends its massive investments. The wars that China’s own allies are starting are going to be the biggest tax on China’s growing power and influence, which means it will become China’s problem — and not America’s — to stop those wars. That means that China and Turkey, and not America, will end up paying the cost of Middle Eastern security. The danger they face is that they will overextend themselves, and provoke fights they cannot walk away from in the process. It may be a bigger burden than Erdogan or Xi imagine that they are taking on here.

 

It is unlikely that President Trump thinks so strategically or so ruthlessly. More likely he is simply convinced that these wars drain American blood and treasure in an unacceptable way, and he just intends to stop doing it whatever it costs.

(2) Trump’s Syria withdrawal bravely puts America First, the establishment last. 

 

“His decision will stop risking American lives and wasting taxpayer dollars on policing Middle East politics. This is long overdue, seeing as our security goals in Syria have already been accomplished. To recap, the U.S. military first intervened in the Syrian conflict in 2014. Our goal was to destroy the Islamic State Caliphate, as the terrorist group had built up territorial control of much of the conflict-ridden region. Mission accomplished.”

 

Well, I’m fine on reducing our commitments to the region. Trump’s diplomatic approach has the Arab world allied with Israel, and Saudi Arabia liberalizing internally. And thanks to fracking, the mideast isn’t that important to us anymore. On the other hand, the Kurds are good people, and I don’t like leaving them hanging, which is what this looks like to me. On that point, I’m in general agreement with Tom Rogan: “We relied upon the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces and other Kurdish militias in order to substantially degrade ISIS. Yes, Western special operations played a crucial role in this effort. But the Kurds took the brunt of the casualties. And the Kurds kept fighting alongside us even after their northern heartlands had been retaken. Their tenacious courage saved American lives by denying ISIS the space and time to plot attacks against Western homelands.”

 

 

 

 

UPDATE: Two more: Walter Russell Mead: Trump’s Jacksonian Syria Withdrawal.

Explaining his decision to pull U.S. troops away from the Turkish-Syrian border at the cost of the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces, and open the way for Turkish forces to create what Ankara calls a “safety zone,” President Trump tweeted early Monday that “it is time for us to get out of these ridiculous Endless Wars, many of them tribal, and bring our soldiers home.” . . .

 

Mr. Trump isn’t the first U.S. president to try to hold America back from a Middle East conflict. President Obama made a similar, and similarly hasty, decision in 2013 when he chose not to respond to Syria’s violation of his chemical weapons “red line” with a military strike. Many of the same people criticizing Mr. Trump today criticized Mr. Obama then, and the subsequent course of the Syrian war underlined both the humanitarian and the strategic case against Mr. Obama’s decision. Mr. Trump’s Syria decision may also prove to be a mistake, but it should give the establishment pause that two presidents as different as Messrs. Obama and Trump reached similar conclusions about the political risks in the Middle East.

 

The U.S. may be the most powerful actor in the region, but it can’t resolve the economic and social conflicts that destabilize the Middle East. As long as this is the case, those who want presidents to commit to long-term military engagements, however limited and however advantageous, must expect a skeptical hearing in the Oval Office.

 

Plus: Syria Could Be Turkey’s Vietnam. “Erdoğan may talk about a terror threat emanating from northern Syria, but he has yet to prove that one exists. Quite the contrary: Not only were Syrian Kurds the most effective indigenous fighting force against the Islamic State, there is also overwhelming evidence that Turkey cooperated, profited from, and at times coordinated with Syria’s Al Qaeda affiliates and the Islamic State. . . . Erdoğan may be cocky, but he could be falling into a trap. Turkey’s drones may give it a qualitative military edge in mountains and rural regions but may be of substantially less utility in the northern Syrian cities if limiting collateral damage is any concerns. The Kurds have extensive experience fighting on the ground. Meanwhile, recent political purges of the Turkish military make the Turkish Army a shell of its former self. With Kurdish insurgents voluntarily going into Syria at Turkey’s request as part of the previous peace agreement, Syrian Kurds simply have no place to go. A century ago, Turkish forces slaughtered the Armenians by marching them into the desert to their deaths; the Kurds refuse to be the sequel. Turkish invasion and ethnic cleansing—Turkey’s stated purpose is to settle a couple million Arabs in the region—will spark insurgency in northeastern Syria and across Turkey.”

 

Things have changed in the mideast, but when your decisions about Syria are compared to Obama’s, it’s not a good sign.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Plus, it’s a NATO thing.

I am speaking, of course, of president Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, who is, increasingly, Turkey’s effective dictator. But it’s crucial to emphasize that these are Nato forces. This not only means they are supplied with state-of-the-art weaponry; it also means those weapons are being maintained by other Nato members.

 

Fighter jets, helicopter gunships, even Turkey’s German-supplied Panzer forces – they all degrade extremely quickly under combat conditions. The people who continually inspect, maintain, repair, replace, and provide them with spare parts tend to be contractors working for American, British, German or Italian firms. Their presence is critical because the Turkish military advantage over Northern Syria’s “People’s Defense Forces” (YPG) and “Women’s Defense Forces” (YPJ), those defenders of Kobane that Turkey has pledged to destroy, is entirely dependent on them.

 

That’s because, aside from its technological advantage, the Turkish army is a mess. Most of its best officers and even pilots have been in prison since the failed coup attempt in 2016, and it’s now being run by commanders chosen by political loyalty instead of competence. Rojava’s defenders, in contrast, are seasoned veterans.

 

 

 

 

.

[DC Tom]

Was actually told today that it was unprecedented for the US to abandon allies like the Kurds like this. 

 

Yeah...hasn't happened since the Obama administration, who was the first to do it since W, who was the first to do it since Clinton, who was the first since H.W....    

 

And that's just the Kurds.  Wonder how the Hmong feel about this?

[ALF]

His first mission was to smuggle war crimes evidence. Now it's to convince Congress to act

 

The horrifying pictures -- almost 55,000 of them, taken by him and others -- showed scenes that were compared to the depravity of the Nazis.

Caesar code name photos showing alleged torture of prisoners by Assad regime

But a world that said "Never Again" after the Holocaust appeared to shrug.

"I honestly thought that if I could have the courage to go for the years that I did ... endangering my life every single day, that once I came out and showed the world what I had, that the entire conscience of the world would move," he says.
But it didn't.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/08/politics/syria-defector-caesar-in-washington/index.html

 

These pictures are proof of crimes against humanity , warning very graphic

 

https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2019/10/08/syrian-defector-begs-congress-for-action-bolduan-pkg-ath-vpx.cnn/video/playlists/around-the-world/

Edited October 9, 2019 by ALF

[Tiberius]

Has the next genocide begun??? 

 

https://www.foxnews.com/world/turkey-syria-kurdish-troops-military-assault