Kaepernick and the National Anthem

[26CornerBlitz]

 

That is your opinion. And next time I'm present during the National Anthem, I will remain in my seat to demonstrate my solidarity with your right to be wrong.

 

Good for you.

[Deranged Rhino]

 

Why are you lumping all of those things together? Focus on the topic at hand. Protesting the national anthem is absolutely disrespectful not only of vets but of all American patriots (Tubman, MLK, Robinson, Ali, Parks, etc.) who have made sacrifices while striving toward equality.

 

I'm not lumping those things together, the folks saying he's disrespecting vets are.

 

No veteran died for his right to play football. They served and died for his right to freely express his opinions. Saying that a guy who's exercising the very rights those "patriots" died for is somehow disrespecting them is to miss the entire point of their sacrifice.

 

Asking him not to protest because it's offensive to vets is disrespecting what those vets fought and died for way more than what CK is doing. Sorry, you're way off base on this one.

[Gugny]

 

Why are you lumping all of those things together? Focus on the topic at hand. Protesting the national anthem is absolutely disrespectful not only of vets but of all American patriots (Tubman, MLK, Robinson, Ali, Parks, etc.) who have made sacrifices while striving toward equality.

 

Count me as a veteran who was not offended by this.

 

He sat down. It's not like he ran to the middle of the field and burned an American flag. He simply didn't stand up.

 

Do I agree with it? No.

 

Is it his right? Yes.

 

Does it affect anyone on the face of the earth? Absolutely not.

 

Personally, I get more offended when people are on their cell phones during school concerts. This is a non-issue.

[WotAGuy]

 

Good for you.

Somebody has to stand up for you. You have spent a LOT of time in this thread trying to present a side of the argument rationally, without emotion - that is difficult and commendable and you are doing a great job. I've learned a lot in here. Thanks.

[Maury Ballstein]

Someone explain to me how needing an ID to vote is an issue.

 

Are some not permitted to go to the DMV to get identification ?

Edited August 29, 2016 by Ryan L Billz

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Someone explain how needing ID to vote is a bad thing.

 

Are some not permitted to go to the DMV to get identification ?

 

because, you know, #raysis

[Santana]

 

Count me as a veteran who was not offended by this.

 

He sat down. It's not like he ran to the middle of the field and burned an American flag. He simply didn't stand up.

 

Do I agree with it? No.

 

Is it his right? Yes.

 

Does it affect anyone on the face of the earth? Absolutely not.

 

Personally, I get more offended when people are on their cell phones during school concerts. This is a non-issue.

Well put man!

[26CornerBlitz]

Someone explain to me how needing an ID to vote is an issue.

 

Are some not permitted to go to the DMV to get identification ?

 

Some people is rural or poor communities do not have the wherewithal to get ID that has been called for. Many of these voter ID laws have been struck down by courts because they were specifically designed to suppress the votes of African American citizens.

 

Count me as a veteran who was not offended by this.

 

He sat down. It's not like he ran to the middle of the field and burned an American flag. He simply didn't stand up.

 

Do I agree with it? No.

 

Is it his right? Yes.

 

Does it affect anyone on the face of the earth? Absolutely not.

 

Personally, I get more offended when people are on their cell phones during school concerts. This is a non-issue.

 

Good post.

Edited August 29, 2016 by 26CornerBlitz

[Kemp]

 

And I wouldn't take issue if Kaep mentioned any of those topics as his reasons.

 

Instead, he says that police officers are out there murdering black men consistently, which simply isn't true. In fact, black folks are statistically less likely to be victims of deadly force by police.

 

I said at the beginning that I don't care if he doesn't stand up for the anthem; his choice. I take issue, however, with nebulous reasoning like "black oppression", which is then backed up by falsehoods.

 

It still boils down to the same thing. He is absolutely allowed to do what he did and people are absolutely allowed to disagree with him.

 

However, the post of mine you are citing was an answer to a different question.

 

Isn't that more accurately oppression of criminals? And aren't criminals a minority? So it sounds like we need to include criminals in this discussion.

 

No, it's an example of disproportionate prosecution and incarceration.

[thebandit27]

 

But he didn't generalize in those quotes -- he was talking about specific incidents. And at no time did he say all cops are bad and out to kill black people. NO ONE is arguing that outside of a select few extremists in certain movements who, more than likely, are paid to incite that sort of rhetoric by folks who want to stir up racial unrest in this country.

 

The movement that he is invoking with his quotes and hashtags has very much made those exact insinuations...even going so far as to take violence to police personnel that have absolutely nothing to do with the events in question.

 

That issue, of course, is separate from the question of whether there's a real smoking gun regarding a lack of prosecution against police who are found to be in the wrong in shooting incidents--against white or minorities.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Holy eff! 45 pages? Already?

 

Is this a new thread speed record?

 

FWIW, my soda cans are red, white, and blue ones.

Edited August 29, 2016 by ExiledInIllinois

[thebandit27]

 

It still boils down to the same thing. He is absolutely allowed to do what he did and people are absolutely allowed to disagree with him.

 

However, the post of mine you are citing was an answer to a different question.

 

That's exactly what I said.

[jimmy10]

 

Are those guys making a public demonstration and/or statement about their intentional protest?

 

I can't say.

 

But for those who insist one must stand for the flag simply out of respect, I would ask: How DO they feel about the camera operators, stadium workers, vendors, etc, who go about their business while the anthem plays?

 

"Oh, well, they're just doing their job."

 

OK, then, so we can all agree there are shades of grey in criteria for respecting the anthem/flag. Or that it's little more than a manufactured, symbolic gesture. Or both.

Edited August 29, 2016 by jimmy10

[ExiledInIllinois]

 

Count me as a veteran who was not offended by this.

 

He sat down. It's not like he ran to the middle of the field and burned an American flag. He simply didn't stand up.

 

Do I agree with it? No.

 

Is it his right? Yes.

 

Does it affect anyone on the face of the earth? Absolutely not.

 

Personally, I get more offended when people are on their cell phones during school concerts. This is a non-issue.

You the Man Gug! I agree... And thank you!

[Wayne Arnold]

 

I'm not lumping those things together, the folks saying he's disrespecting vets are.

 

No veteran died for his right to play football. They served and died for his right to freely express his opinions. Saying that a guy who's exercising the very rights those "patriots" died for is somehow disrespecting them is to miss the entire point of their sacrifice.

 

Asking him not to protest because it's offensive to vets is disrespecting what those vets fought and died for way more than what CK is doing. Sorry, you're way off base on this one.

 

No one is saying he shouldn't protest. People are saying he's wrong to protest the very thing that symbolizes freedom and equality. You're just as misguided as he is.

[Kemp]

Someone explain to me how needing an ID to vote is an issue.

 

Are some not permitted to go to the DMV to get identification ?

 

The issue is changing the rules as to what constitutes a legal ID.

Edited August 29, 2016 by Kemp

[White Linen]

 

 

Most of the people in prison for non-violent drug offenses are Black and Latino. It's certainly not because those groups use drugs more than any other population groups in the United States. Just one example.

 

That's no oppression - it's enforcing the law. Now if you think the law is only getting enforced to blacks and latino's - then the fix is to equally enforce those same laws in white, asian, etc communities.

 

You're not suggesting stop enforcing the laws on certain groups because it's disproportionate, are you?

[Wayne Arnold]

 

Count me as a veteran who was not offended by this.

 

He sat down. It's not like he ran to the middle of the field and burned an American flag. He simply didn't stand up.

 

Do I agree with it? No.

 

Is it his right? Yes.

 

Does it affect anyone on the face of the earth? Absolutely not.

 

Personally, I get more offended when people are on their cell phones during school concerts. This is a non-issue.

 

I didn't say it was offensive. I said it was disrespectful.

 

I appreciate your not being offended but that's why we stand for the national anthem - to show respect for the concept of freedom and equality and honor those who fought and died for those things. Otherwise what are we doing?

[26CornerBlitz]

 

That's no oppression - it's enforcing the law. Now if you think the law is only getting enforced to blacks and latino's - then the fix is to equally enforce those same laws in white, asian, etc communities.

 

You're not suggesting stop enforcing the laws on certain groups because it's disproportionate, are you?

 

No. It's selective enforcement contingent upon who is chosen for traffic stops, stop and frisk, and other policies that are more prevalent in some communities as borne out by statistics.

[White Linen]

 

Some people is rural or poor communities do not have the wherewithal to get ID that has been called for. Many of these voter ID laws have been struck down by courts because they were specifically designed to suppress the votes of African American citizens.

 

 

You don't know that - it's just your opinion.

 

That may have been a consequence but it was designed so that only citizens voted - people couldn't vote more than once - stop people that were deceased from still voting.