Kaepernick and the National Anthem

[Deranged Rhino]

No, it's an example of disproportionate prosecution and incarceration.

 

It's amazing to me people are still missing this point.

 

 

The movement that he is invoking with his quotes and hashtags has very much made those exact insinuations...even going so far as to take violence to police personnel that have absolutely nothing to do with the events in question.

 

That issue, of course, is separate from the question of whether there's a real smoking gun regarding a lack of prosecution against police who are found to be in the wrong in shooting incidents--against white or minorities.

 

 

The extremists in that movement by and large are paid to be instigators by people who want to see us tear this country apart. Professional agitators inserted into groups to distract and inflame situations. That's the real story a lot of people are missing through all the smoke.

 

I'm not here to defend every member of BLM or their organization. But to say that because BLM's approach is wrong there's nothing to their protest is just missing out on what's really happening in this country. There are still plenty of vestiges of the systemic racism this country was built upon lingering into the 21st century. The only way to remedy this is to make the public aware of them so an honest conversation can be had and solutions can be found.

 

That conversation can't and won't happen while tensions and emotions are high -- which is why paid agitators exist, to discredit, disparage and prevent actual substantive solutions from arising.

 

 

No one is saying he shouldn't protest. People are saying he's wrong to protest the very thing that symbolizes freedom and equality. You're just as misguided as he is.

 

Misguided because I don't think the flag is anything more than a symbol? To paraphrase the late, great George Carlin, symbols are for the simple minded. As I said earlier, anyone who thinks a symbol of the country is above reproach is missing the entire point of what makes this country great. Our country isn't a flag. It's an idea. An idea that says every man and woman has the right to freely express their views regardless of how uncomfortable those views might be to the government itself.

 

To put it more eloquently:

 

But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security

[White Linen]

 

No. It's selective enforcement contingent upon who is chosen for traffic stops, stop and frisk, and other policies that are more prevalent in some communities as borne out by statistics.

 

Ok, but if caught doing something whether targeted or not, it's a crime. So, you think the fix is less targeting so that minorities get away with as much as other races?

[26CornerBlitz]

 

You don't know that - it's just your opinion.

 

That may have been a consequence but it was designed so that only citizens voted - people couldn't vote more than once - stop people that were deceased from still voting.

 

You should study the documented cases of voter fraud that show 31 cases in millions and millions of votes that have been cast. Total phony non-issue to suppress the vote.

[Santana]

The problem I have with this whole thing is that it has done nothing to bring communities together, it's only making the divide wider. Do we all know that there is a problem within our country that puts more strain on a certain class of people than the other people yes. The problem is all we do it point out the problems and provide no resolution. There's a bunch of finger pointing rhetoric but in the end there's never a resolution on how to fix these issues. We need to ask ourselves why we are fighting each other, what have we gained by fighting with each other?

[hullhawk]

 

Ahhhhh, the old white guy wanting to know where his special day is.

Perhaps it would be relevant for you to study what the irsh and Polish did for the country and how they were treated when they got here, including the Chineese, While slavery is and was abhorent, whites didn't invent it. slassifying someone as an"old white guy" is both agist and rascist. when ever we make borad statements without recognising the struggle that all imigrants faced when they go here, and only seeing color, Is racist. I am not trying to make it a Pissing contest and unquestionably they ( african americans had it worse, than other groups except American indians.

[26CornerBlitz]

 

Ok, but if caught doing something whether targeted or not, it's a crime. So, you think the fix is less targeting so that minorities get away with as much as other races?

 

No. The fix is equal enforcement of the law irrespective of race.

[Billschinatown]

 

No. It's selective enforcement contingent upon who is chosen for traffic stops, stop and frisk, and other policies that are more prevalent in some communities as borne out by statistics.

You're not going to explain the nuances of algebra to the people here struggling with addition. It's a lost cause man. Just let it go lol.

[Deranged Rhino]

The problem I have with this whole thing is that it has done nothing to bring communities together, it's only making the divide wider. Do we all know that there is a problem within our country that puts more strain on a certain class of people than the other people yes. The problem is all we do it point out the problems and provide no resolution. There's a bunch of finger pointing rhetoric but in the end there's never a resolution on how to fix these issues. We need to ask ourselves why we are fighting each other, what have we gained by fighting with each other?

 

We gain nothing by fighting each other. But divide and conquer has been the mantra by the ruling classes for centuries. Keep us fighting with each other, keep us distracted by having us pick tribes, and then the folks in power can do what they please without any consequences from the plebs.

[26CornerBlitz]

You're not going to explain the nuances of algebra to the people here struggling with addition. It's a lost cause man. Just let it go lol.

 

I'm just trying to lay out factual information for those who want to consider it. For those that don't, what can you do?

[thebandit27]

 

The extremists in that movement by and large are paid to be instigators by people who want to see us tear this country apart. Professional agitators inserted into groups to distract and inflame situations. That's the real story a lot of people are missing through all the smoke.

 

I'm not here to defend every member of BLM or their organization. But to say that because BLM's approach is wrong there's nothing to their protest is just missing out on what's really happening in this country. There are still plenty of vestiges of the systemic racism this country was built upon lingering into the 21st century. The only way to remedy this is to make the public aware of them so an honest conversation can be had and solutions can be found.

 

That conversation can't and won't happen while tensions and emotions are high -- which is why paid agitators exist, to discredit, disparage and prevent actual substantive solutions from arising.

 

 

 

 

Isn't it the activist's (read: Kaepernick's) responsibility not to align himself with groups that deliberately inflame the situation and dilute the discussion?

 

I think that's my beef with this--if someone is going to protest, I believe the protest should be in reference to real, actual problems and that the individual(s) should be educated about what they're fighting.

 

If he wants to be taken seriously, aligning himself with that group isn't going to help.

[White Linen]

 

No. The fix is equal enforcement of the law irrespective of race.

 

Exactly - so if it's equal it just means more whites and asian's in jail. How does that help black people?

 

You should study the documented cases of voter fraud that show 31 cases in millions and millions of votes that have been cast. Total phony non-issue to suppress the vote.

 

I did study it. How do you know who's voting - if they don't show identification? How would you know the total of people fraudulently voting when we don't check ID's everywhere?

 

I'm willing to admit there's BS on both sides of this issue. To say it's absolutely for oppression purposes only is naive.

[Deranged Rhino]

 

Isn't it the activist's (read: Kaepernick's) responsibility not to align himself with groups that deliberately inflame the situation and dilute the discussion?

 

I think that's my beef with this--if someone is going to protest, I believe the protest should be in reference to real, actual problems and that the individual(s) should be educated about what they're fighting.

 

If he wants to be taken seriously, aligning himself with that group isn't going to help.

 

What I'm trying to say is that there's a difference between the activist and extremist. What CK is doing, and what the overwhelming majority of BLM protesters are doing is activism. They're motivated to affect positive change in their community, change in regards to very real problems they face on a daily basis -- this should be supported because the majority of these folks are peacefully exercising their rights to bring attention to real problems. If they chose to protest the anthem as a part of this, that's their right and I've got no issue with it.

 

The extremists, which permeate every group not just BLM, are not motivated to affect positive change but to sow the seeds of anarchy. This is either driven by ideology (there are always nut jobs in any movement) or money, as in they are paid by outside parties to discredit BLM by inciting violence or using extreme rhetoric. These are the ones the media focuses on because the media is part of the problem. Extremists give them ratings, extremists allow them to peddle fearporn and scare the pants off grandma and grandpa. It also gives the media something specific to focus on while other stories, more important stories, go unreported.

 

So while I agree that you have to pick your affiliations carefully, you also cannot let the practical reality of professional agitators distract from the real issues. What CK is fighting for is a real issue, even if some don't agree with how he's choosing to protest these issues. Just because BLM is a flawed and penetrated organization shouldn't make the very real issues they're raising moot.

Edited August 29, 2016 by Deranged Rhino

[boyst]

I remember when Muhammad Ali was vilified for refusing induction into the Army when the Vietnam War was raging. His principled stand turned out to be the right thing to do when view through the lens of history.

that is nothing to do with the situation. You can't shift the goal posts and the narrative of Kaepernick.

What Ali did is still in the history books as wrong and what he got for it was deserved. He was given the luxury of rights of Americans while he broke the law and dodged the draft. He also was a very, very angry and racist man for most of his early life.

But don't let that matter, continue to beat the broken drum that kaep is beating because in history we will found that his noise was long forgotten and he will not even be a footnote in whatever history will determine this time of American history.

[White Linen]

You're not going to explain the nuances of algebra to the people here struggling with addition. It's a lost cause man. Just let it go lol.

 

Yeah? Tell that to the millions of black people that live in these drug infested areas that want it out of their communities. You make jokes for standing up for the criminals and think you're smart? Don't you care about those people or should they be oppressed into having to live with it?

Edited August 29, 2016 by Triple Threat

[Santana]

 

We gain nothing by fighting each other. But divide and conquer has been the mantra by the ruling classes for centuries. Keep us fighting with each other, keep us distracted by having us pick tribes, and then the folks in power can do what they please without any consequences from the plebs.

Exactly my man! We are all so focused on black and white, when we should be more concerned with wealthy America vs middle class/poor America. This is like if the Bills offense was constantly fighting the Bills defense because one side was getting paid more than the other. When in fact they should be fighting with the owners and front office.

[HT02]

Get the !@#$ out then Colin you pos.....you always respect your country's anthem no matter what your view points....

A country that has provided him millions of dollars to sling a football in which he basically sucks at

I couldn't have said it any more eloquently. He really is a self-centered POS.

[boyst]

 

 

Most of the people in prison for non-violent drug offenses are Black and Latino. It's certainly not because those groups use drugs more than any other population groups in the United States. Just one example.

did they or did they not break the law? Argument... horrible. You get no points.

[Deranged Rhino]

Exactly my man! We are all so focused on black and white, when we should be more concerned with wealthy America vs middle class/poor America. This is like if the Bills offense was constantly fighting the Bills defense because one side was getting paid more than the other. When in fact they should be fighting with the owners and front office.

 

I'm with you.

[boyst]

 

A principled stand on behalf of other people who do not have a major platform to call attention to issues of importance now makes someone a dirtbag.

 

Unreal!

he has not one principle in this. He has nothing to risk and when he is fired he will Chris Klewe this about his stance making him the scapegoat. He makes millions. He's risking nothing. Because this won't be what gets him fired. And the second they withhold game checks you bet your ass he is standing and right back in line and now the martyr he wants to be.

 

He is a selfish prick, full of crap and has no real argument for what he thinks he can stand for. But I fully respect his opinion to do so and it does not affect me at all

[Gugny]

 

I didn't say it was offensive. I said it was disrespectful.

 

I appreciate your not being offended but that's why we stand for the national anthem - to show respect for the concept of freedom and equality and honor those who fought and died for those things. Otherwise what are we doing?

 

Since when did the National Anthem become a thank you to veterans and fallen soldiers?

 

When I stand and place my hand over my heart (which is 100% of the time) it's because I love my country and I'm grateful for my rights and freedoms.

 

We have Veterans Day and Memorial Day to honor those who fought and those who died.

that is nothing to do with the situation. You can't shift the goal posts and the narrative of Kaepernick.

What Ali did is still in the history books as wrong and what he got for it was deserved. He was given the luxury of rights of Americans while he broke the law and dodged the draft. He also was a very, very angry and racist man for most of his early life.

But don't let that matter, continue to beat the broken drum that kaep is beating because in history we will found that his noise was long forgotten and he will not even be a footnote in whatever history will determine this time of American history.

 

There is no true history book that says what Ali did was "wrong," nor is there any history book that says he, "got what he deserved."