jumbalaya Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Last ten regular season games - 30 catches and 2 TDs. Those are numbers for a 4th round pick, not a guy that cost two no. 1's. Outside of an 84 yard bomb ten games ago his average per catch is below average. Only one game with more than 4 catches. He is starting to look like the second coming of Lee Evans, not Andre Reed. The excuses are getting old too: 1. He was covered by one of the best corners in the league 2. He was double covered. 3. He is hurt. 4. He had Orton throwing to him. 5. He has Taylor throwing to him. 6. He is a better decoy. 7. Rex likes to run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 No one has ever said he's a better decoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Billieve Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 What a bunch of nonsense. Do you actually watch him? There's a reason he's consitently double teamed, often still demanding the best cb. Maybe you just don't like having lots of good skill players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LA Grant Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Let's see more than one game in this new system before we worry about Sammy. That said, I agree, there is growing unrestful chatter about Sammy, and I get it, put-up-or-shut-up time is coming sooner than later. A big game against New England and being a major factor in a win, which I think is a very real possibility, would be a definitive "put up." (I hope so anyway, I reached for him in Fantasy and another dud week in a row will kill me.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insomniac99 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Terrible...just terrible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Watch the games; it'll help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gasjuggler Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Did you watch the last game? One target and that was over thrown to him. Do you want Tyrod throwing into double coverage. Come on, we have a lot of weapons on this team. Take what they give us. It will eventually open up. The only thing I might do more is move him around and run more of the rubs and picks like the Pats do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Wahhhhh. No one cares about your fantasy team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSBill Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 some production would be good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) Last time I looked Sammy doesn't setup the game plan, or throw to himself! If you have one of the best offensive weapons in the NFL you should find ways to get him the ball. To me, it is disappointing that the team gave up 3 draft picks, 2 #1's and a 4th for a guy they use as a decoy or don't bother throwing to him because he is so well covered. I'm pretty sure opposing teams roll their coverage's and at times triple team players like Julio, Megatron, Dez, Antonio, Odell, Demaryius, TY, AJ and some of them even have bad games from time to time. But for the most part those players make big plays, and score a lot despite what opposing teams try to do to stop them! From a fantasy stand point when you have read that Rex Ryan has stated the team will run the ball more then any other team has ever run the ball, and that Greg Romans run game playbook is bigger then any other run game playbook in history of the NFL. Last game 19 attempts passing vs 36 rushes is doing exactly what the HC said they would do. You have to think that this years Bills team is not going to throw the ball 40+ times a game like they did last year. When you have Clay, Harvin, Watkins, Woods, and McCoy out of the backfield then divide 19 by 5 you get 3.8. Then if you break down the targets Harvin 5, McCoy 4, Clay 4, Woods 2. Felton 1 incomplete, Watkins 3 targets all incomplete.Those 3 targets to Sammy one was overthrown, one was tipped, and one was into good coverage. About the only way Watkins is going to be a top WR in fantasy this year is for TT to ignore all the other weapons and just throw to Sammy or should the team always get behind in points then try and play catch up by passing it. Another factor to consider is all the Bills WR's were out with injuries, and didn't see a lot of playing time in pre season for any QB to get in sync with them. Now granted Anquan Boldin has had 80+ receptions, and over 1000 yards the last two seasons at San Fran. So Sammy could possibly emerge as a dominate passing threat at some point, I guess we just have to wait and see. Edited September 17, 2015 by Nihilarian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkAF43 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 To me, it is disappointing that the team gave up 3 draft picks, 2 #1's and a 4th for a guy This isn't correct. We didn't "give up" 2 first round picks. We gave up one and used the other to move up. Gave up two as you said implies the Bills lost 2 first round picks which is completely untrue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bananathumb Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 It was a bad pick even if he had produced the way Whaley figured. Now it just looks busted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsmovinup Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 What a bunch of nonsense. Do you actually watch him? There's a reason he's consitently double teamed, often still demanding the best cb. Maybe you just don't like having lots of good skill players? I agree with the poster. The best receivers in the game get open regardless of coverage. Marvin Harrison. Andre. Jerry Rice. Calvin Johnson. Etc. They all get/got doubled. Even tripled on occasion and still caught footballs. Sammy needs to step it up in the next couple of weeks or its gonna start being an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) This isn't correct. We didn't "give up" 2 first round picks. We gave up one and used the other to move up. Gave up two as you said implies the Bills lost 2 first round picks which is completely untrue. From my point of view the team used the 2014 first round pick to move up to draft him, and traded away the 2015 first round pick along with a 2015 4th round pick all to obtain one player. That's 3 draft picks for one player. "The transaction ultimately broke down like this: The Bills moved up to No. 4 overall by dealing their 2014 first-round pick, No. 9 overall (one #1 pick), to the Browns along with first (one #1 pick) - and fourth-round (one #4 pick) selections this year. Those picks ended up being No. 19 and No. 115 overall after the Bills’ 9-7 season." http://bills.buffalonews.com/2015/04/28/was-trading-up-for-sammy-watkins-worth-it-what-the-numbers-some-pundits-say/ If the team didn't use those three picks all on Sammy Watkins, then tell me who were they used on? Does the team have another 1st round player from 2014 or 2015 hiding somewhere? Edited September 17, 2015 by Nihilarian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkAF43 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 From my point of view the team used the 2014 first round pick to move up, and traded away the 2015 first round pick along with a 2015 4th round pick to obtain one player. That's 3 picks for one player. "The transaction ultimately broke down like this: The Bills moved up to No. 4 overall by dealing their 2014 first-round pick, No. 9 overall (one #1 pick), to the Browns along with first (one #1 pick)- and fourth-round (one #4 pick)selections this year. Those picks ended up being No. 19 and No. 115 overall after the Bills 9-7 season." http://bills.buffalonews.com/2015/04/28/was-trading-up-for-sammy-watkins-worth-it-what-the-numbers-some-pundits-say/ If the team didn't use those three picks all on Sammy Watkins, then tell me who were they used on? Does the team have another 1st round player from 2014 or 2015 hiding somewhere? Using the term "gave up" as you did implies the Bills gave away 2 first round picks and only got one back in return. They used one to draft Watkins that if they kept the pick they would've drafted another player. So they didn't give up two first rounders. They exchanged firsts and gave up one first rounder the following year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 It was a bad pick even if he had produced the way Whaley figured. Now it just looks busted. That's a good one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 - First off the kid can flat out play and demands double teams - Second, remember Eric Moulds? Year 3 he came on like gang busters - Third, he has battled through injuriea Give it some time, he still racked up alot of yards last year and is able to make some tough catches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Using the term "gave up" as you did implies the Bills gave away 2 first round picks and only got one back in return. They used one to draft Watkins that if they kept the pick they would've drafted another player. So they didn't give up two first rounders. They exchanged firsts and gave up one first rounder the following year. Anyway you look at it its still three draft picks for one player! Two #1's and a 4th. I just don't see it any other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Using the term "gave up" as you did implies the Bills gave away 2 first round picks and only got one back in return. They used one to draft Watkins that if they kept the pick they would've drafted another player. So they didn't give up two first rounders. They exchanged firsts and gave up one first rounder the following year. Let's settle on the terminology that the team "used 3 picks to acquire" Sammy. As to his effectiveness, he drew multiple coverage guys about 90% of the time he was running routes, opening the field for others. When he was singled up, he was open for fun (watch the All-22 and see for yourself). He was dominant in the run game blocking-wise. He IS the guy that opponents have to game plan for; that's a wonderful thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) I'm confused, is the OP complaining he doesn't catch enough balls or doesn't do enough with the catches he has made? If it's the latter, over the 10 game stretch, as you correctly pointed out, Sammy Watkins has had 30 receptions. What you didn't point out was that those 30 receptions went fro 549 yards. That's 18.3 YPC, which would have been good for 2nd in the NFL in 2014. If your complaining that he doesn't get enough catches, I would hope you realize he isn't the guy designing game plans and he isn't the guy throwing the ball. He can't throw the ball to himself. Should he be getting the ball more? No doubt he's an explosive player but that's Romans job to get him the ball. Sammy gets open, watch the all-22, Tyrod and Roman just have to go his way. Edited September 17, 2015 by Wayne Cubed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 I'm confused, is the OP complaining he doesn't catch enough balls or doesn't do enough with the catches he has made? If it's the latter, over the 10 game stretch, as you correctly pointed out, Sammy Watkins has had 30 receptions. What you didn't point out was that those 30 receptions went fro 549 yards. That's 18.3 YPC, which would have been good for 2nd in the NFL in 2014. If your complaining that he doesn't get enough catches, I would hope you realize he isn't the guy designing game plans and he isn't the guy throwing the ball. He can't throw the ball to himself. Should he be getting the ball more? No doubt he's an explosive player but that's Romans job to get him the ball. Sammy gets open, watch the all-22, Tyrod and Roman just have to go his way. Yea, i said that too I think the OP is bummed because he took him in his fantasy draft, and started him only to see him get a 0 for the start. The OP needs to realize that this teams offensive scheme is designed to be a dominate run team with 30+ rushes a game and around 20 passes so the QB can just manage it. My advice is to bench Sammy until TT starts finding him on a regular basis every game. I drafted him in one league, and didn't start him. He sits until things change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsmovinup Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 So many homers here with Rose colored glasses. Gets a little nauseating. Dont you dare criticize anyone on my team which , BTW, hasnt made the playoffs in fifteen years. Great win last week but its one week. The criticism of Watkins, considering what we gave up, is fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerme1 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 To me, it is disappointing that the team gave up 3 draft picks, 2 #1's and a 4th for a guy they use as a decoy or don't bother throwing to him because he is so well covered. This isn't correct. We didn't "give up" 2 first round picks. We gave up one and used the other to move up. Gave up two as you said implies the Bills lost 2 first round picks which is completely untrue. From my point of view the team used the 2014 first round pick to move up to draft him, and traded away the 2015 first round pick along with a 2015 4th round pick all to obtain one player. That's 3 draft picks for one player. "The transaction ultimately broke down like this: The Bills moved up to No. 4 overall by dealing their 2014 first-round pick, No. 9 overall (one #1 pick), to the Browns along with first (one #1 pick) - and fourth-round (one #4 pick) selections this year. Those picks ended up being No. 19 and No. 115 overall after the Bills’ 9-7 season." http://bills.buffalonews.com/2015/04/28/was-trading-up-for-sammy-watkins-worth-it-what-the-numbers-some-pundits-say/ If the team didn't use those three picks all on Sammy Watkins, then tell me who were they used on? Does the team have another 1st round player from 2014 or 2015 hiding somewhere? Anyway you look at it its still three draft picks for one player! Two #1's and a 4th. I just don't see it any other way. Let's settle on the terminology that the team "used 3 picks to acquire" Sammy. This again? It 's been well documented that we all cant agree on if we gave up two picks etc while people forget that we actually did get top use a first etc etc etc. STOP IT. The season's on now. Give it the f'n Disney treatment. Let it go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pafan Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Anyway you look at it its still three draft picks for one player! Two #1's and a 4th. I just don't see it any other way. Using your train of thought you should be complaining about having to give up a draft pick for every player the Bills drafted in their original positioning, then. It makes no sense. As to other posters comparing Sammy to the list of HOF wide recievers... Montana. Young. Manning. Pre-2013 Schaub. Stafford. Sammy's never had anyone even remotely close to those guys throwing to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) We ripped Marrone and Hackett last year for not getting Sammy involved enough. Being covered by Vontae Davis shouldn't really be an excuse. If Roman is as good as we think then he should be able to find plenty of ways he can get the ball in Sammy's hands. Let's see what he does against the Pats who have a pretty weak secondary. Edited September 17, 2015 by Bangarang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webster Guy Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 This isn't correct. We didn't "give up" 2 first round picks. We gave up one and used the other to move up. Gave up two as you said implies the Bills lost 2 first round picks which is completely untrue. I used to try and explain this to people, but now when I hear "two number ones" i just shake my head and move on...... The funny thing is Sammy had a hand in the two biggest plays on offense last Sunday, a great block on the Karlos run, and drawing in the deep safety on the Percy bomb (tt didnt have to look off the safety, which means he had an extra second or two to track Harvin before he threw the perfect pass). Wideouts are like pass rushers, they can have a zero in the stat column but still have a huge impact on the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 It was a bad pick even if he had produced the way Whaley figured. Now it just looks busted. So many homers here with Rose colored glasses. Gets a little nauseating. Dont you dare criticize anyone on my team which , BTW, hasnt made the playoffs in fifteen years. Great win last week but its one week. The criticism of Watkins, considering what we gave up, is fair. Preach it fellas, team definetly looked in disarray due to Sammys failures. I mean ........ I used to try and explain this to people, but now when I hear "two number ones" i just shake my head and move on...... The funny thing is Sammy had a hand in the two biggest plays on offense last Sunday, a great block on the Karlos run, and drawing in the deep safety on the Percy bomb (tt didnt have to look off the safety, which means he had an extra second or two to track Harvin before he threw the perfect pass). Wideouts are like pass rushers, they can have a zero in the stat column but still have a huge impact on the game. This. Win/fail !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 I used to try and explain this to people, but now when I hear "two number ones" i just shake my head and move on...... The funny thing is Sammy had a hand in the two biggest plays on offense last Sunday, a great block on the Karlos run, and drawing in the deep safety on the Percy bomb (tt didnt have to look off the safety, which means he had an extra second or two to track Harvin before he threw the perfect pass). Wideouts are like pass rushers, they can have a zero in the stat column but still have a huge impact on the game. We gave up a first for Maybin. It's perfectly acceptable to say that we used 2 1sts and a 4th to acquire Sammy because we did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) We ripped Marrone and Hackett last year for not getting Sammy involved enough. Being covered by Vontae Davis shouldn't really be an excuse. If Roman is as good as we think then he should be able to find plenty of ways he can get the ball in Sammy's hands. Let's see what he does against the Pats who have a pretty weak secondary.Another thing to keep in mind is that they really only played just over a half of offensive football last week, due to the 24-point lead. They made no effort to throw the ball after the midpoint of the third quarter--because they didn't have to. Edited September 17, 2015 by mannc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) There is no debate that the Buffalo Bills used 3 picks to acquire Sammy Watkins including 2 first round picks. Why people continue to argue about this and/or the terminology one uses is beyond me. We gave up a first for Maybin. It's perfectly acceptable to say that we used 2 1sts and a 4th to acquire Sammy because we did. Yup! Edited September 17, 2015 by BuffaloBillsForever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 This isn't correct. We didn't "give up" 2 first round picks. We gave up one and used the other to move up. Gave up two as you said implies the Bills lost 2 first round picks which is completely untrue. Sometimes people try to skew that but this dude even defined the exact picks involved. Silly spot for you to dig your heels in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 I'm confused, is the OP complaining he doesn't catch enough balls or doesn't do enough with the catches he has made? If it's the latter, over the 10 game stretch, as you correctly pointed out, Sammy Watkins has had 30 receptions. What you didn't point out was that those 30 receptions went fro 549 yards. That's 18.3 YPC, which would have been good for 2nd in the NFL in 2014. If your complaining that he doesn't get enough catches, I would hope you realize he isn't the guy designing game plans and he isn't the guy throwing the ball. He can't throw the ball to himself. Should he be getting the ball more? No doubt he's an explosive player but that's Romans job to get him the ball. Sammy gets open, watch the all-22, Tyrod and Roman just have to go his way. Nice work. Good too know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaK-Gun Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 I'd be marginally worried if the Bills lost Sunday. It's like saying Marcell or Mario aren't involved because they aren't logging two sacks and seven tackles a game. Eating up opponent manpower frees others to work. Case and point Percy Harvin, and Sammy provided a critical block to help K. Williams get to the end zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent 91 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 This isn't correct. We didn't "give up" 2 first round picks. We gave up one and used the other to move up. Gave up two as you said implies the Bills lost 2 first round picks which is completely untrue. We used 2 number 1 picks on him. Semantics i think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 So many homers here with Rose colored glasses. Gets a little nauseating. Dont you dare criticize anyone on my team which , BTW, hasnt made the playoffs in fifteen years. Great win last week but its one week. The criticism of Watkins, considering what we gave up, is fair. The criticism lacks any context whatsoever. Criticizing where it's deserved is one thing; this is totally unwarranted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Do you want Tyrod throwing into double coverage. Come on, we have a lot of weapons on this team. Take what they give us. It will eventually open up. This. Would you rather Taylor force the ball to Sammy, or would you rather win? This offense is about multiple weapons, forcing opposing defenses to pick their poison. Bottom line, don't lose sight of the big picture. You play to win the game, not to feed one guy the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALLEN1QB Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 In this system the guy is not going to put up huge numbers. If he is your fantasy player might want to trade him lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenhigh Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 So many homers here with Rose colored glasses. Gets a little nauseating. Dont you dare criticize anyone on my team which , BTW, hasnt made the playoffs in fifteen years. Great win last week but its one week. The criticism of Watkins, considering what we gave up, is fair.You are totally right! For the life of me I can't understand why Watkins didn't draw up more throws to himself when he was designing last week's game plan. Or why he didnt just throw the ball to himself more often on Sunday. These stupid homers just dont get it, great football minds like you and I know that Watkins sucks. He better turn it around toot sweet, or we are gonna run him out of town on a rail! ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent 91 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 I may be way off base. But people know Sammys ceiling. IF HE HAS ONE. He is no where near a bust. But me personally. I think he can be a top 5 receiver right now. I think there is no question why we... gave up two first.... used 2 firsts... whatever. We saw Sammy do work in college. We saw slants bubble screens we saw jet sweeps. The OBJ obsession was nauseating because we know Sammy has the talent, has the potential to make you say OBJ who? Sammy has 1200 yard... MINIMUM potential. This guy is an unquestioned stud. UNQUESTIONED but we haven't seen him make anyone miss. We havent seen him hit anyone yet. And we are waiting. I think I over value the guy but thats based solely on his proven ability. Also... lole other posters have said. Being able to beat a double team is what makes bona fide number 1 receivers. Consistency makes number 1's. Sammy needs to cement himself in that class Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy10 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Yea, i said that too I think the OP is bummed because he took him in his fantasy draft, and started him only to see him get a 0 for the start. Exactly. There are few things on this earth more boring than listening to someone kvetch about their fantasy team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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