Whaley admits what we've suspected - Bills in QB Purgatory

[NoSaint]

Ah see, I have Robey still at nickel. Darby only on the field as outside CB behind McK and Gilmore. So a dime guy, rotational at best, but Rex uses a lot of 3 S packages, which means less Darby.

I think Robey is much more sub packages but will see snaps still (and again, 4 deep is vital here as you always see someone beat up). Robey just isn't "glue" in coverage despite having big plays. I've always said he's better working towards the line (in zone jumping routes or blitzing) but Darby is a better pure cover guy.

 

I think that Darby will be the true #3 with duke/Robey/3rd lb stealing some package looks, and of course dime

 

Snap count I would've pegged Darby at 50% though between primary nickel, all dime, and predictable injuries

[thewildrabbit]

I agree that the Bills' QB situation isn't a surprise, but what is surprising is that you have Whaley admitting, implicitly if not explicitly, that the Bills have little if any faith that the three guys competing for the job this year will amount to anything. That isn't surprising in the case of Cassell since no one expects him to be anything more than he has been all these years. An acknowledgment from the Bills' GM about Taylor and particularly Manuel, however, is surprising in the sense you don't expect that to be publicly acknowledged.

I agree, It is surprising!

 

What a thing to admit as he is the one who went and scouted EJ and then drafted him. I recall recently reading that someone in the FO thinks EJ has the stature of a big strong QB, but doesn't throw like one. Where was this critique when he was being scouted?

 

Aaron Rodgers drafted 24th in the first round- won SB

 

Tom Brady drafted in the 6th round- won SB

 

Drew Brees drafted in the 2nd round-won SB

 

*Peyton Manning #1 overall won SB

 

*Andrew Luck #1 overall

 

Ben Roethlisberger #11 first round-won SB

 

Tony Romo undrafted free agent

 

Phillip Rivers #4 overall

 

Matt Ryan #3 overall

 

Russell Wilson 3rd round-won SB

 

*Cam Newton 1st overall

 

*Eli Manning 1st overall- won SB

 

*Matthew Stafford 1st overall

 

Joe Flacco-#18 first round-won SB

 

Ryan Tannehill 8th first round

 

*Sam Bradford 1st overall

 

Colin Kaepernick 2nd round

 

Jay Cutler 1st round 11th pick

 

*Carson Palmer 1st overall

 

*Alex Smith 1st overall

 

Teddy Bridgewater 1st round #32

 

Robert Griffin III #2 overall

 

Andy Dalton 2nd round

 

Nick Foles 3rd round

 

Derek Carr 2nd round

 

Geno Smith 2nd round

 

*Jamis Winston 1st overall

 

Josh McCown 3rd round

 

Marcus Mariota 2nd overall

 

Bryan Hoyer undrafted free agent

 

Looking at this years lists of starting QB's is total proof that you don't need a #1 or #2 overall pick to win a SB as only two of eight of those first-second overalls have won a SB. The Bills don't need the 1st or 2nd pick in the draft to obtain a franchise QB if they have someone on the scouting staff who can actually evaluate a college or free agent QB properly. Kinda why i think it might have been smart for Pegula to hire that football czar.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

"Buffalo Bills general manager Doug Whaley said Wednesday that the Bills are "almost in quarterback purgatory" because they do not have a franchise quarterback and are unlikely to pick near the top of the draft in coming years.

"We're good enough that we're not going to have the first or second [overall] pick," Whaley told WGR 550 on Wednesday. "We hope we're not in that position. Hopefully now we're drafting in the teens and the 20s and the 30s. So you're not going to get those college guys that are coming out."

 

Guess it's better than QB Hell

 

 

 

Almost?!, we've been there for a long time but him admitting that at least makes them looking for one, although too late.

 

How much does it take to get Orton back.

 

Maybe we trade Fred for Tebow.

I think there will be enough QBs in this upcoming draft that they will be in position to draft a good one. May need to move up a few spots (hopefully)

 

We have to do whatever it takes to get a QB, I don't care if we have go all Saints and trade the whole draft.

Hopefully everyone will be overlooking Connor Cook.

 

 

Here,here

screw the draft..

news is.. contract talks with Rivers will be tabled if nothing is hammered out before Chargers 8/13 preseason opener against Cowboys - http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/1813/philip-rivers

he seems more than willing to test FA next season, so if he wants a SB ring or two to help him get fitted for a gold jacket - there's no better opportunity than the 2016 Bills.

this

I guess we can dream but let's be realistic.

 

Rivers is on a very leash and his wife won't let him live or play in Buffalo.

 

Happy Wife, Happy Life. Lol

 

 

 

Imo

 

once she finds out Buffalo is great place to raise kids and Phillip can go hunting with Mario she will be quite happy.

[Punching Bag]

Yep, this is pretty much spot on (and I'm not an EJ guy). The one thing that is more frustrating that than the guys that make excuses for the QB's poor play is the people that say "just get a guy." If you don't have a plan for who that guy is then you really can't criticize what's been done. If you don't like what's been done, fine. If you don't have a better option put your pitchfork down.

Or use it to give yourself an enema, you will probably enjoy it more than watching the Bills.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

What a thing to admit as he is the one who went and scouted EJ and then drafted him. I recall recently reading that someone in the FO thinks EJ has the stature of a big strong QB, but doesn't throw like one. Where was this critique when he was being scouted?

 

they didn't get my scouting reports in time.

[eball]

Sometimes....you just cant get everything you want.

 

But if you try sometime...you might get what you need.

[ALF]

Time to beef up the QB scouting dept for next draft just in case.

[Coach Tuesday]

I'm ok with the Darby pick. Rex crashed and burned in NY for two main reasons: (i) no QB, and (ii) his GMs wouldn't pay for the corners he needed to run his defense. This is a coach who needs great cover corners to run his system well. I have no problem with the Bills filling that need with the first pick of the Rex era.

[PromoTheRobot]

 

Well, but this:

 

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/13298048/why-nfl-insiders-overrated-oakland-raiders-qb-derek-carr-nfl

 

Anyhow i would've at least taken Mettenberger over Cockrell. I would've taken a shot with Aaron Murray or Bryce Petty instead of drafting a guard - we needed a guard but I'd take my chances with that in free agency. I wouldn't have made the trade for Sammy - I would've kept that 2015 first round pick and then perhaps be in a position to deal it for Bradford, Brees or Rivers (who knows). This isn't just hindsight - it's what I believe I would do differently if I were in Whaley's position,

So you would taken a bunch of stiffs just to show you're at least trying? In the meantime you miss players like John Miller and Preston Brown.

[thebandit27]

Carr's rookie year was better than EJ's, but let's say they're equal for argument's sake.

 

I would've given up our second and maybe our 5th and 6th? And our 7th? That'd probably be okay.

 

Tyrod is a 5th year player. He isn't getting better with a year on the bench learning and developing. A rookie would be. But why does their have to be a choice between the two? The roster spot would've been Tuel's/Matt Simms', not Tyrod's. They were many prospects far and away better than Simms.

 

No, Carr's rookie year was NOT better than EJ's. In fact, it was worse by most statistical measures.

 

Comp. %age, YPA, QBR, passer rating, and winning percentage all favor EJ. In fact, the only measure by which Carr played better was TD:INT ratio.

 

I don't know how you can blindly say that a random rookie (who you haven't named despite being asked) would improve sitting on the bench. The streets are littered with rookies that sat on the bench and never got any better.

 

Frankly I agree that a developmental QB contingency plan should've come into play before Taylor became the de facto option. I won't, however, throw Whaley to the wolves because he didn't pick Aaron Murray or Zach Mettenberger in the 4th round (even though I would have).

 

Looking at the percentages, he's playing the odds by taking other positions in those rounds as opposed to QBs.

[PromoTheRobot]

Does anyone see the irony here? We are mad at Whaley for not taking a flier on a developmental QB. Then we freak out when a QB isn't setting the NFL on fire 5 days into training camp.

[Lurker]

So you would taken a bunch of stiffs just to show you're at least trying? In the meantime you miss players like John Miller and Preston Brown.

The genius of TSW....

[Mr. WEO]

Does anyone see the irony here? We are mad at Whaley for not taking a flier on a developmental QB. Then we freak out when a QB isn't setting the NFL on fire 5 days into HIS THIRD training camp.

 

 

fixed that for you.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Drafting in the 30s? Seriously? If the Bills are drafting in the 30s, it's most likely they don't have a problem at QB, no?

[eball]

Drafting in the 30s? Seriously? If the Bills are drafting in the 30s, it's most likely they don't have a problem at QB, no?

 

At least not one they weren't able to overcome.

[BuffaloHokie13]

Drafting in the 30s? Seriously? If the Bills are drafting in the 30s, it's most likely they don't have a problem at QB, no?

The Jets picked 29th in the 2010 NFL Draft, and 30th in the 2011 NFL Draft. Mark Sanchez was their QB.

[BillsVet]

 

No, Carr's rookie year was NOT better than EJ's. In fact, it was worse by most statistical measures.

 

Comp. %age, YPA, QBR, passer rating, and winning percentage all favor EJ. In fact, the only measure by which Carr played better was TD:INT ratio.

 

Frankly I agree that a developmental QB contingency plan should've come into play before Taylor became the de facto option. I won't, however, throw Whaley to the wolves because he didn't pick Aaron Murray or Zach Mettenberger in the 4th round (even though I would have).

 

Looking at the percentages, he's playing the odds by taking other positions in those rounds as opposed to QBs.

 

If you had to pick a QB to play for you in 2015, would it be Carr or Manuel?

 

Teams either have a QB, have a guy they're developing who they hope will be the guy, or are going with scraps. Buffalo is in the final category and Oakland in the second one. Call it luck, call it whatever. The Bills don't have a long term option on the roster.

 

The reason Buffalo is where they are today is because they failed to be aggressive when options were available in 2011 and 2012. It forced them to make a decision in what turned out to be a bad QB draft in 2013. Taking one there meant passing over what looks like better prospects in 2014.

 

A GM who doesn't find a long term answer in their first 3 years on the job, particularly in the NFL of today, should be on a very short leash. The success of a franchise depends on it far too much to be so mediocre there.

[Fadingpain]

John Murphy was laughing about how badly some media have taken Whaley's comment out of context much like some here have.

You realize he's a paid spokesman for the Bills, right?

 

German radio in 1944 spoke of how well the war in the East was going too.

[RyanC883]

"Buffalo Bills general manager Doug Whaley said Wednesday that the Bills are "almost in quarterback purgatory" because they do not have a franchise quarterback and are unlikely to pick near the top of the draft in coming years.

"We're good enough that we're not going to have the first or second [overall] pick," Whaley told WGR 550 on Wednesday. "We hope we're not in that position. Hopefully now we're drafting in the teens and the 20s and the 30s. So you're not going to get those college guys that are coming out."

 

Guess it's better than QB Hell

 

 

Sometimes a great QB slips into the second (Rodgers) or later rounds (Wilson).

 

If you had to pick a QB to play for you in 2015, would it be Carr or Manuel?

 

Teams either have a QB, have a guy they're developing who they hope will be the guy, or are going with scraps. Buffalo is in the final category and Oakland in the second one. Call it luck, call it whatever. The Bills don't have a long term option on the roster.

 

The reason Buffalo is where they are today is because they failed to be aggressive when options were available in 2011 and 2012. It forced them to make a decision in what turned out to be a bad QB draft in 2013. Taking one there meant passing over what looks like better prospects in 2014.

 

A GM who doesn't find a long term answer in their first 3 years on the job, particularly in the NFL of today, should be on a very short leash. The success of a franchise depends on it far too much to be so mediocre there.

 

You can't draft a QB when one isn't available. Whaley has done a great job trying to minimize the mediocre play at QB by building what is likely the best roster in the NFL sans QB. Trying to recreate teams like the Ravens w/ Trent Dilfer. Minimize QB position.

[thebandit27]

 

If you had to pick a QB to play for you in 2015, would it be Carr or Manuel?

 

 

Ideally, neither. It's a coin flip to me, since--as I mentioned--they were about the same their rookie years.

 

I think Manuel is the more physically talented of the two; I think Carr is closer to reaching his full potential as a QB (which is limited).

 

 

The reason Buffalo is where they are today is because they failed to be aggressive when options were available in 2011 and 2012. It forced them to make a decision in what turned out to be a bad QB draft in 2013. Taking one there meant passing over what looks like better prospects in 2014.

 

A GM who doesn't find a long term answer in their first 3 years on the job, particularly in the NFL of today, should be on a very short leash. The success of a franchise depends on it far too much to be so mediocre there.

 

Do you not see the duality of these two statements? You want to blame Whaley for not taking a QB in 2011 and 2012 when Nix was the GM, but also blame him for picking Manuel in 2013 when Nix was (still) the GM?

 

I'm on record as believing that Whaley had plenty of say in the Manuel selection. You seem to agree that, by that point, they needed to at least take a shot, so I'm not sure how you can pick nits with that move. IMO, and by all that we can possibly know about how the organization was running at that time, the failure to go after a QB (specifically, Dalton, Kaepernick, Wilson, and Foles) in 2011 and 2012 falls on Nix.

 

Moving forward, I suppose you could agree with ChanFuego, who was ready to trade most of a draft to move up for Bridgewater in 2014 and/or draft Bryce Petty in round 3 or 4 this year; beyond that, I'm not sure what the plan should've been (save for doubling down in 2013 and drafting a guy like Mettenberger or Murray in the 4th/5th). The last 3 drafts just haven't been good QB drafts.

 

Now, there's a chance that 2016 will be a good year for them, but we'll just have to wait and see. I don't make excuses; the fact is that good QBs don't grow on trees, and that's why mediocre guys like Tannehill are getting $19M/year despite not sniffing the playoffs.