Whaley admits what we've suspected - Bills in QB Purgatory

[TXBILLSFAN]

The QB situation on this team is depressing. One of the reasons this upcoming season is failing to bring out my usual pre-season optimism.

 

There is no easy solution to fix which is why the Bills simply "punted" on trying to do anything of substance this off-season, and chose, instead to focus on rest of the roster and hope the QB situation improves on it's own.

 

While hope is not a strategy (although it does seem to work in presidential politics and with most Bills fans), it is all we got. Let's "hope" EJ takes the proverbial next step. Let's "hope" Cassel somehow finds his 2008 magic. Let's "hope" Tyrod is that once in a generation QB that finds his game after looking so pedestrian for 5 years.

 

The blame for the situation has many fathers including several current members of the Bills front office.

 

But what to do going forward is the question ? The NFL is a league that has proven over the past decade that you CAN'T WIN a SUPERBOWL without a legitimate top 16 QB. So, if the goal is the SuperBowl, the Bills should do everything to get one.

 

What does that mean ?

 

In my mind, that means every asset is on the table. EVERY ASSET.

 

That means you draft guys like Bryce Petty, even though he is a project. That means you take a Carr or Bridgewater the year after you draft EJ. That means you offer your 1st and one of your defensive studs to go after Bradford or Foles.

 

If you can't win a Super Bowl without a Top 16 QB, you make it the singular biggest priority in your organization, bar none.

 

Building "the rest of the roster" becomes easy after that.

[thebandit27]

So you're telling me that the Raiders would trade Carr for EJ?

 

Show me where I said that; it's a total non-sequitur.

 

Why would either team trade a guy that didn't look like a franchise guy for a guy that didn't look like a franchise guy?

[Kirby Jackson]

The QB situation on this team is depressing. One of the reasons this upcoming season is failing to bring out my usual pre-season optimism.

 

There is no easy solution to fix which is why the Bills simply "punted" on trying to do anything of substance this off-season, and chose, instead to focus on rest of the roster and hope the QB situation improves on it's own.

 

While hope is not a strategy (although it does seem to work in presidential politics and with most Bills fans), it is all we got. Let's "hope" EJ takes the proverbial next step. Let's "hope" Cassel somehow finds his 2008 magic. Let's "hope" Tyrod is that once in a generation QB that finds his game after looking so pedestrian for 5 years.

 

The blame for the situation has many fathers including several current members of the Bills front office.

 

But what to do going forward is the question ? The NFL is a league that has proven over the past decade that you CAN'T WIN a SUPERBOWL without a legitimate top 16 QB. So, if the goal is the SuperBowl, the Bills should do everything to get one.

 

What does that mean ?

 

In my mind, that means every asset is on the table. EVERY ASSET.

 

That means you draft guys like Bryce Petty, even though he is a project. That means you take a Carr or Bridgewater the year after you draft EJ. That means you offer your 1st and one of your defensive studs to go after Bradford or Foles.

 

If you can't win a Super Bowl without a Top 16 QB, you make it the singular biggest priority in your organization, bar none.

 

Building "the rest of the roster" becomes easy after that.

I think that the QB class next year should be pretty good. If one of them separates himself or you fall in love with one of them start firing. I don't care if you are dealing your 1st, your next year's 1st and/or whatever (especially if the guy is safe as a prospect). There are not a ton of holes on this roster and the depth is pretty strong. You need to focus your assets on the QB position next year unless something unexpected takes place in 2015.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Kirby Jackson

[FireChan]

 

Show me where I said that; it's a total non-sequitur.

 

Why would either team trade a guy that didn't look like a franchise guy for a guy that didn't look like a franchise guy?

Fair enough. What team is more likely to want to trade for the other?

[John from Riverside]

The genius of TSW....

I know I dont get it either.....

 

Lets look past the very solid drafts that Whaley has had because he cant come up with the ultimate prize......he lets fire him.....maybe the next GM can screw up all the other picks as well?

 

It can ALWAYS be worse.

 

The names being thrown around as the answer jesus........either injury prone or not really showing that they are any better.....

[hondo in seattle]

The QB situation on this team is depressing. One of the reasons this upcoming season is failing to bring out my usual pre-season optimism.

 

There is no easy solution to fix which is why the Bills simply "punted" on trying to do anything of substance this off-season, and chose, instead to focus on rest of the roster and hope the QB situation improves on it's own.

 

While hope is not a strategy (although it does seem to work in presidential politics and with most Bills fans), it is all we got. Let's "hope" EJ takes the proverbial next step. Let's "hope" Cassel somehow finds his 2008 magic. Let's "hope" Tyrod is that once in a generation QB that finds his game after looking so pedestrian for 5 years.

 

The blame for the situation has many fathers including several current members of the Bills front office.

 

But what to do going forward is the question ? The NFL is a league that has proven over the past decade that you CAN'T WIN a SUPERBOWL without a legitimate top 16 QB. So, if the goal is the SuperBowl, the Bills should do everything to get one.

 

What does that mean ?

 

In my mind, that means every asset is on the table. EVERY ASSET.

 

That means you draft guys like Bryce Petty, even though he is a project. That means you take a Carr or Bridgewater the year after you draft EJ. That means you offer your 1st and one of your defensive studs to go after Bradford or Foles.

 

If you can't win a Super Bowl without a Top 16 QB, you make it the singular biggest priority in your organization, bar none.

 

Building "the rest of the roster" becomes easy after that.

 

 

I get your point. But I don't think all the assets in the world would have captured a Top 16 QB.

 

The teams that have Top 16 QBs understand their value just as much as you do. They're not giving them up.

 

Same with the teams with top draft picks. If there's a QB there that looks like a Top 16 QB, and your team needs one, you're not trading down.

 

I just don't see a scenario that would have solved our QB situation - though I'm not opposed to rolling the die on picking college QBs that might have long odds. I don't think drafting a QB each year until we find one is a bad idea.

 

But here's what Whaley did. Not seeing a good answer at QB, he acquired the best RB he could find. Gosh darn it, if we can't throw the ball, we at least have to be able to run it. And he surrounded our mediocre QB with guys that will help him look good.

[KD in CA]

Excuses are already flowing.

 

We are in purgatory because Whaley neglected the most important position on the field and refuses to admit the huge mistake that was EJ.

 

 

Imo

 

I agree. I am furious the GM isn't publicly calling his possible starting QB a failure/bust during the first week of camp. Doesn't Whaley know how much better I would feel about myself if I could post more "I told you so" messages about EJ on the internet??

[thebandit27]

Fair enough. What team is more likely to want to trade for the other?

 

Neither.

 

I repeat: why would either team trade a guy that didn't look like a franchise guy for a guy that didn't look like a franchise guy?

[reddogblitz]

 

Neither.

 

I repeat: why would either team trade a guy that didn't look like a franchise guy for a guy that didn't look like a franchise guy?

 

St. Louis and Philadelphia did it (Foles for Bradford).

 

Chicago and Denver did a few years back (Orton for Cutler).

[thebandit27]

 

St. Louis and Philadelphia did it (Foles for Bradford).

 

Chicago and Denver did a few years back (Orton for Cutler).

 

Disagree--both Foles and Bradford showed signs of being franchise capable. Foles had a season of 27 TDs and 2 INTs winning 11 games (I think) and topping 9 YPA. Bradford had 2 very good seasons in STL.

 

Cutler had thrown for over 4,000 yards and lead a team to the playoffs before being traded.

[John from Riverside]

I know that this is a open forum.....but frankly I am tired of people complaining about the QB situation when you cant even offer up a viable solution to fix it.....

 

it is a LEAGUE WIDE problem......with the exeception of a certain group of teams everyone is looking for that QB

At least Doug Whaley is following a plan rather then the scatterbrain thinking that has haunted us in the past.......he biult the team up around the QB position.......take a look at this team even the TE position is solid now.

 

My solution is still to draft a QB.....and the bills have stacked this roster in a way that we can actually give up several picks to do so. DRAFT your QB.......you will have a QB on a reasonable cap for several years that way.......and pray to god that one of these qbs on the roster can manage the team this year and next so that you dont throw that QB into the fire.

[FireChan]

 

Neither.

 

I repeat: why would either team trade a guy that didn't look like a franchise guy for a guy that didn't look like a franchise guy?

Because one has a better chance of becoming a franchise guy than the other?

[reddogblitz]

I know I'm in the minority but I'm not worried. I think EJ is better than most of yall do evidently. And, Greg Roman is known for running an offense that maximizes the talent he has on hand. And when he went to San Fransisco they had big QB problems with Alex Smith as the starter. He sucked. Under Roman he turned out be pretty darn good. Then Alex gets hurt and he goes with Colin and does different stuff than he did with Alex.

 

While we are watching (or at least reading tweets about) how our QBs are "struggling" during camp and think DOOOOOOOOOOMED, Greg Roman is watching and formulating a plan (probably with a lot of running and getting the football in Harvin and Clay and Sammies' hands).

 

I watched an NFL Classic Game of the 85 Bears vs the Cheese. McMahon was horrible. Bears won because they got a safety and then the ball on the 50 on the ensuing free kick and Sweetness broke a couple of good runs including a 27 yard TD. That's our blue print. I expect it will work.

 

Relax. Training Camp is the time for optimism.

Edited August 6, 2015 by reddogblitz

[thebandit27]

Because one has a better chance of becoming a franchise guy than the other?

 

Okay, I guess that would be a reason. I don't think it applies in this case.

 

Neither has looked the part thus far IMO.

[BillsVet]

 

Ideally, neither. It's a coin flip to me, since--as I mentioned--they were about the same their rookie years.

 

I'll answer the question you deflected from: Carr is the better prospect. EJ's career hangs in the balance.

 

 

 

Sometimes a great QB slips into the second (Rodgers) or later rounds (Wilson).

 

You can't draft a QB when one isn't available. Whaley has done a great job trying to minimize the mediocre play at QB by building what is likely the best roster in the NFL sans QB. Trying to recreate teams like the Ravens w/ Trent Dilfer. Minimize QB position.

 

This is the "waiting for the ship to come in" mindset. And it usually is unsuccessful.

 

 

And here was my response:

 

 

And you're still quibbling.

[thebandit27]

 

I'll answer the question you deflected from: Carr is the better prospect. EJ's career hangs in the balance.

 

 

 

This is the "waiting for the ship to come in" mindset. And it usually is unsuccessful.

 

 

And you're still quibbling.

 

How is that "quibbling" to point out the flaws in your logic?

 

Also, how is Carr's rookie season any type of proof that he's a better prospect? I don't see anything that convinces me of it. What do you see? Was it the 3 wins, the brutal YPA, the QBR and passer rating that ranked near dead last in the NFL?

[FireChan]

 

Okay, I guess that would be a reason. I don't think it applies in this case.

 

Neither has looked the part thus far IMO.

You think their chances of succeeding are the same? I know it's a subjective measure. But honestly, if I gave EJ a 5% chance, I'd have to give Carr at least a 6%.

[PromoTheRobot]

I know I dont get it either.....

 

Lets look past the very solid drafts that Whaley has had because he cant come up with the ultimate prize......he lets fire him.....maybe the next GM can screw up all the other picks as well?

 

It can ALWAYS be worse.

 

The names being thrown around as the answer jesus........either injury prone or not really showing that they are any better.....

Vengeance seems to be the driving force. Someone's head must roll for the 15 season drought. Don't pay attention to what went right. Focus only on what is wrong and scorch the earth for it.

[Kirby Jackson]

And, Greg Roman is known for running an offense that maximizes the talent he has on hand. And when he went to San Fransisco they had big QB problems with Alex Smith as the starter. He sucked. Under Roman he turned out be pretty darn good. Then Alex gets hurt and he goes with Colin and does different stuff than he did with Alex.

 

 

Just to be clear Alex Smith was fantastic that year in SF. He completed 70.2%, 193 yards per game, 13 TD, 5 INT and a 104.1 rating. He had struggles leading up to that point but was great that year (and has been good since).

[thewildrabbit]

The QB situation on this team is depressing. One of the reasons this upcoming season is failing to bring out my usual pre-season optimism.

 

There is no easy solution to fix which is why the Bills simply "punted" on trying to do anything of substance this off-season, and chose, instead to focus on rest of the roster and hope the QB situation improves on it's own.

 

While hope is not a strategy (although it does seem to work in presidential politics and with most Bills fans), it is all we got. Let's "hope" EJ takes the proverbial next step. Let's "hope" Cassel somehow finds his 2008 magic. Let's "hope" Tyrod is that once in a generation QB that finds his game after looking so pedestrian for 5 years.

 

The blame for the situation has many fathers including several current members of the Bills front office.

 

But what to do going forward is the question ? The NFL is a league that has proven over the past decade that you CAN'T WIN a SUPERBOWL without a legitimate top 16 QB. So, if the goal is the SuperBowl, the Bills should do everything to get one.

 

What does that mean ?

 

In my mind, that means every asset is on the table. EVERY ASSET.

 

That means you draft guys like Bryce Petty, even though he is a project. That means you take a Carr or Bridgewater the year after you draft EJ. That means you offer your 1st and one of your defensive studs to go after Bradford or Foles.

 

If you can't win a Super Bowl without a Top 16 QB, you make it the singular biggest priority in your organization, bar none.

 

Building "the rest of the roster" becomes easy after that.

But, But, who should they have gone after the last two years? Oh wait! I mean since EJ was benched, and the FO knew after three games last season that he wasn't the answer then why not try for a top FA QB or draft one this off season?

 

Well, they could have tried a trade for one but they didn't have a 2015 1st round pick because they needed to draft that once in a generation WR last year. So trading up for one of the top two was out of the question, and I presume the FO had no faith in Garrett Grayson taken by the Saints in the 3rd, or Sean Mannion taken by the Rams in the 3rd. Then there was Bryce Petty in the 4th or Brett Hundley in the 5th. The Bills didn't have a Nick Foles to trade the Rams for Sam Bradford so I guess they were indeed stuck in QB purgatory.

Never mind that there were other possible free agent QB's like Brian Hoyer, Josh McCown, Ryan Mallett, Christian Ponder. All of these guys must be worse then Matt Cassel, right?

 

The bigger picture seems to be that GM Doug Whaley was "all in" on EJ when he drafted him, and again "all in" on him during the 2014 draft when he used two first rounder picks a fourth on a WR. Shoot, because if he had known EJ wasn't the man then he could have beaten the Raiders to Derek Carr or the Patriots to Jimmy Garoppolo, right?

 

Bottom line here I have serious doubts that anyone currently employed by the Buffalo Bills would know the difference between a good college QB prospect and a bad one. Simple as that!

 

 

 

Mentioning Raiders rookie QB Derek Carr I seem to recall that rookie QB playing in all 16 games last year, and he played on one of the very worst teams in the game. Yet that rookie looked darn good at the end of the season by beating the #4 defense in the league!! Then making that defense look quite ordinary even tho that team had the best pass rush in the entire league! Carr went 17 of 34 for 2 TD's and NO Int's. Imagine that! Isn't that what a promising rookie should look like by the end of his first season by beating a team with a top defense on the verge of the playoffs?

 

I highly doubt this thread would even exist if EJ had played that well at the end of the season against a team with a defense as good as the Buffalo Bills were last year.

 

 

 

PS. I still have faith that EJ can still develop into a starting NFL QB if coached properly this season, and circumstances allow his further development...even if nobody in the Bills FO does. The Bills FO basing their current opinions given them by the previous coaching staff of clowns?