Coach Tuesday Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Carr doesn't suck. He played very well late last year with an absolute garbage offense and has looked great this year in TC. There's a reason why people employed by nfl teams who don't post on message boards think his ceiling is high. Read the espn qb rankings (based on a survey of 15 nfl coaches and personnel people) to see what actual professionals think of him. Well, but this: http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/13298048/why-nfl-insiders-overrated-oakland-raiders-qb-derek-carr-nfl Anyhow i would've at least taken Mettenberger over Cockrell. I would've taken a shot with Aaron Murray or Bryce Petty instead of drafting a guard - we needed a guard but I'd take my chances with that in free agency. I wouldn't have made the trade for Sammy - I would've kept that 2015 first round pick and then perhaps be in a position to deal it for Bradford, Brees or Rivers (who knows). This isn't just hindsight - it's what I believe I would do differently if I were in Whaley's position, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 (edited) To be fair the offense EJs rookie year had marrone/Hackett, a spotty line, and injury issues across every skill position (except tight end, who isn't a starter in the league these days). That Jets game with hogan, Goodwin and graham as starting WRs, and the backs combining for 25 carries for 40 yards not being a great argument for EJ being surrounded by offensive talent. Lee smith, tashard choice, and frank summers had catches. EJ had a top 10 defense. Carr had the second worst? EJ had Freddy and Spiller. Can you even name Carr's RB, after MJD exploded? Where to start with this..... At what point in this last draft (which was WIDELY considered to be a poor QB draft) would you have taken a QB? With the 2nd pick.....were we took Ronald Darby? That Darby pick is lookin REALLY good right now for several reasons With the 3rd pick.....where we took John Miller? Miller is going to START on this offensive line and the coaches love him Did we have a 4th round pick? Now we are getting into players that that you draft for value........a QB that probably gets cut or goes to the practice squad or Karlos Williams........a running who is looking very good in camp....provides special teams.......and came out of a running back ritch draft Maybe we take the QB where we took the LB (even though our GM has shown a propensity to be VERY good at drafting linebackers My point is.....we had limited picks.....Whaley made every one of them count........then he went and got two veterans to compete in camp with EJ........ Sometimes....you just cant get everything you want. Darby was a luxury and depth pick. Same with Karlos. Some great STer RB buried on the depth chart isn't getting this team a Superbowl. Miller I'll concede, because we actually had a hole there. Everything else was a luxury. Also, last draft was a better QB draft than EJ's year. Edited August 6, 2015 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Well, but this: http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/13298048/why-nfl-insiders-overrated-oakland-raiders-qb-derek-carr-nfl Anyhow i would've at least taken Mettenberger over Cockrell. I would've taken a shot with Aaron Murray or Bryce Petty instead of drafting a guard - we needed a guard but I'd take my chances with that in free agency. I wouldn't have made the trade for Sammy - I would've kept that 2015 first round pick and then perhaps be in a position to deal it for Bradford, Brees or Rivers (who knows). This isn't just hindsight - it's what I believe I would do differently if I were in Whaley's position, You weren't getting brees or rivers this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Well, but this: http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/13298048/why-nfl-insiders-overrated-oakland-raiders-qb-derek-carr-nfl Anyhow i would've at least taken Mettenberger over Cockrell. I would've taken a shot with Aaron Murray or Bryce Petty instead of drafting a guard - we needed a guard but I'd take my chances with that in free agency. I wouldn't have made the trade for Sammy - I would've kept that 2015 first round pick and then perhaps be in a position to deal it for Bradford, Brees or Rivers (who knows). This isn't just hindsight - it's what I believe I would do differently if I were in Whaley's position, First of all....I respect you saying what you would do instead of just bitching about what was done....I wish more would do that...... I ALSO would have taken Mett over Cockrell.......but now way I pass over John Miller for Petty knowing what I know now....our interior OL play was atrocious and word coming out of came is our OG situation is MUCH improved.......Bryce Petty is coming out of a very poor QB draft and he may end up being NO better then where Manuel is at..... And regarding the pick for Sammy......they are betting that Sammy Watkins becomes a generational talent....remember word is out there that he is the very best player on the field......in his 2nd year........you simply cannot pass up a talent like that if you have the opportunity to grab it......Bradford is injury prone and expensive....Brees is old and expensive......there are also downsides to these qbs it is NOT a guarantee that they fix every problem and we suddenly become a Super Bowl contender. I personally LOVE the job Whaley has done.....he has worked with what he has Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 (edited) Well, but this: http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/13298048/why-nfl-insiders-overrated-oakland-raiders-qb-derek-carr-nfl Anyhow i would've at least taken Mettenberger over Cockrell. I would've taken a shot with Aaron Murray or Bryce Petty instead of drafting a guard - we needed a guard but I'd take my chances with that in free agency. I wouldn't have made the trade for Sammy - I would've kept that 2015 first round pick and then perhaps be in a position to deal it for Bradford, Brees or Rivers (who knows). This isn't just hindsight - it's what I believe I would do differently if I were in Whaley's position, That's a weak piece, i think. It's entirely numbers driven and doesn't factor in the wfl talent he was playing with. The raiders had one of the worst offensive rosters in terms of talent in a long, long time. Edited August 6, 2015 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 EJ had a top 10 defense. Carr had the second worst? EJ had Freddy and Spiller. Can you even name Carr's RB, after MJD exploded? Darby was a luxury and depth pick. Same with Karlos. Some great STer RB buried on the depth chart isn't getting this team a Superbowl. Miller I'll concede, because we actually had a hole there. Everything else was a luxury. Also, last draft was a better QB draft than EJ's year. Darby is absolutely NOT a luxery pick...how can you even say that.....and it became apparent even sooner then I expected Rex Ryan needs dominant corners to make his great defense work Leodis is still hurt......and you know there is a possibility he never regains form Even if he does......he is probably gone after this season Luxury picks are picks you dont need to contribute immediately......Darby is not a luxery pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 EJ had a top 10 defense. Carr had the second worst? EJ had Freddy and Spiller. Can you even name Carr's RB, after MJD exploded? Darby was a luxury and depth pick. Same with Karlos. Some great STer RB buried on the depth chart isn't getting this team a Superbowl. Miller I'll concede, because we actually had a hole there. Everything else was a luxury. Also, last draft was a better QB draft than EJ's year. This team needed another cb, and i have no problem with the darby pick at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Darby is absolutely NOT a luxery pick...how can you even say that.....and it became apparent even sooner then I expected Rex Ryan needs dominant corners to make his great defense work Leodis is still hurt......and you know there is a possibility he never regains form Even if he does......he is probably gone after this season Luxury picks are picks you dont need to contribute immediately......Darby is not a luxery pick Darby was not expected to contribute immediately. He still may not. You're using hindsight. If Freddy and McCoy both get hurt, does that make Karlos not a luxury pick? This team needed another cb, and i have no problem with the darby pick at all. I don't either. He may be pretty good and a CB that will contribute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Carr doesn't suck. He played very well late last year with an absolute garbage offense and has looked great this year in TC. There's a reason why people employed by nfl teams who don't post on message boards think his ceiling is high. Read the espn qb rankings (based on a survey of 15 nfl coaches and personnel people) to see what actual professionals think of him. Out of those 15 nfl coaches and personnel people, how many have a McCown, Hoyer, Sanchez, Manuel, Fitzpatrick, Insert journeyman's name here quarterback line-up under center? If this is the case, I suppose those rankings are objective, but nonetheless biased and relative to one's current QB situation. I actually watched Carr play a half dozen times last year. He had 2-3 "good" games with one of these unfortunately coming against the Bills. His 49ers game against a dysfunctional team was very good. He couldn't miss. But he had 3 games out of his final 9 with a passer rating above a 75. Hardly finishing strong. He also had a boatload of 1 TD 170 YD games. I know we're QB starved here, but his play didn't get me excited. If he excels this year, I'll gladly eat crow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Haven't read the whole thread, but does anyone consider Whaley's statement newsworthy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Haven't read the whole thread, but does anyone consider Whaley's statement newsworthy? Because it's not every day your GM admits to the media that this team has little chance of finding a good QB, including the ones on the roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 First of all....I respect you saying what you would do instead of just bitching about what was done....I wish more would do that...... I ALSO would have taken Mett over Cockrell.......but now way I pass over John Miller for Petty knowing what I know now....our interior OL play was atrocious and word coming out of came is our OG situation is MUCH improved.......Bryce Petty is coming out of a very poor QB draft and he may end up being NO better then where Manuel is at..... And regarding the pick for Sammy......they are betting that Sammy Watkins becomes a generational talent....remember word is out there that he is the very best player on the field......in his 2nd year........you simply cannot pass up a talent like that if you have the opportunity to grab it......Bradford is injury prone and expensive....Brees is old and expensive......there are also downsides to these qbs it is NOT a guarantee that they fix every problem and we suddenly become a Super Bowl contender. I personally LOVE the job Whaley has done.....he has worked with what he has He picked what he has.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Out of those 15 nfl coaches and personnel people, how many have a McCown, Hoyer, Sanchez, Manuel, Fitzpatrick, Insert journeyman's name here quarterback line-up under center? If this is the case, I suppose those rankings are objective, but nonetheless biased and relative to one's current QB situation. I actually watched Carr play a half dozen times last year. He had 2-3 "good" games with one of these unfortunately coming against the Bills. His 49ers game against a dysfunctional team was very good. He couldn't miss. But he had 3 games out of his final 9 with a passer rating above a 75. Hardly finishing strong. He also had a boatload of 1 TD 170 YD games. I know we're QB starved here, but his play didn't get me excited. If he excels this year, I'll gladly eat crow. Fair enough. I'm optimistic about him based on the half dozen games I saw (and his team really sucked), but we'll see soon enough. Amari Cooper is a huge addition for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Haven't read the whole thread, but does anyone consider Whaley's statement newsworthy? In a vacuum yes. In it's proper context no. IMO of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 In a vacuum yes. In it's proper context no. IMO of course. He didn't say it in a vacuum. He hasn't been taken out of context...move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 He picked what he has.... clarification on your point please Because it's not every day your GM admits to the media that this team has little chance of finding a good QB, including the ones on the roster. That is not what he said...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 clarification on your point please That is not what he said...... He's the GM. He didn't just walk in off the street Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Darby was not expected to contribute immediately. He still may not. You're using hindsight. If Freddy and McCoy both get hurt, does that make Karlos not a luxury pick? I don't either. He may be pretty good and a CB that will contribute. Well, um, yes he was supposed to contribute out of the gate. You do realize that teams use a lot of corners on game day, even if Leo is healthy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 He didn't say it in a vacuum. He hasn't been taken out of context...move on. No he didn't, but others who didn't listen sure as hell misinterpreted it in a vacuum aka took it out of context.. Now....moving on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 (edited) Well, um, yes he was supposed to contribute out of the gate. You do realize that teams use a lot of corners on game day, even if Leo is healthy? Behind Leo, Graham, Gilmore and Robey? He's depth. He didn't replace any DB's. Edited August 6, 2015 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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