Beerball Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I know that there was a thread about this, but, I couldn't find it. I'll happily merge if someone points it out to me. As always, please leave politics out of the discussion. Sure seems like a needless money grab by NFL teams. http://wtop.com/nfl/2015/06/senators-push-for-end-to-military-paying-nfl-to-honor-troops/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtDart Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) I agree. These teams make enough money, they could at least provide the vets tickets for free. It would be a write off for them, at the least. Edited June 5, 2015 by DirtDart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewin Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Patriots** indeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I know that there was a thread about this, but, I couldn't find it. I'll happily merge if someone points it out to me. As always, please leave politics out of the discussion. Sure seems like a needless money grab by NFL teams. http://wtop.com/nfl/2015/06/senators-push-for-end-to-military-paying-nfl-to-honor-troops/ imo take Gov'ment out of the title and you might succeed in keeping it non political Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 End the fly-overs too John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Says the man who doesn't want this to turn political. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 Patriots** indeed IIRC the professional NFL team that plays in Orchard Park also held out their hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I bet we see a couple good melts in this thread if it gets any discussion IIRC the professional NFL team that plays in Orchard Park also held out their hand. It seems the nfl and military both treat it more as advertising/marketing than honoring. And if they are willing to sell the military time to do what they want with- and the military wants to buy it..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 It seems the nfl and military both treat it more as advertising/marketing than honoring. And if they are willing to sell the military time to do what they want with- and the military wants to buy it..... Call it what you will, the Bills called it Salute to Service. http://www.dailypublic.com/articles/05102015/bills-getting-paid-honor-military Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I bet we see a couple good melts in this thread if it gets any discussion It seems the nfl and military both treat it more as advertising/marketing than honoring. And if they are willing to sell the military time to do what they want with- and the military wants to buy it..... Call it what you will, the Bills called it Salute to Service. http://www.dailypublic.com/articles/05102015/bills-getting-paid-honor-military That's how I'm reading it, the military is just another advertiser for the NFL/Bills, like how the National Guard sponsored Dale Jr.'s car for several years. http://www.nascar.com/en_us/news-media/articles/2014/8/7/national-guard-sponsor-dale-earnhardt-jr-hendrick-motorsports.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 That's how I'm reading it, the military is just another advertiser for the NFL/Bills, like how the National Guard sponsored Dale Jr.'s car for several years. http://www.nascar.com/en_us/news-media/articles/2014/8/7/national-guard-sponsor-dale-earnhardt-jr-hendrick-motorsports.html Except that paint on a race car is rather obvious and everyone know how it got there. If anyone assumed that the Bills were getting paid for these "tributes" I wonder why they never spoke up. It's not dirty but it isn't clean either (to me). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Eyedunno. Should the Army stop advertising on TV then? I don't think there's a marketing ploy that isn't in play wrt both the NFL and the US armed forces. Think of it as a symbiotic partnership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 Eyedunno. Should the Army stop advertising on TV then? I don't think there's a marketing ploy that isn't in play wrt both the NFL and the US armed forces. Think of it as a symbiotic partnership. Again (I may sound like I'm up in arms about this, I'm really not), advertising is what it is. It's obvious and everyone knows money changes hands. That wasn't the case here. If the Bills (and other teams) need a cash incentive to salute the military then there's a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Not many threads here piss me off. This one does. The people writing the checks on behalf of the military (being stupid enough to do it) are just as much to blame as the NFL (being scummy enough to demand/take it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 The Bills were #3 on the list of teams earning the most from such "advertising." Somethings around $600K IIRC. It's one thing to advertise recruitment for money. It's another honor soldiers that way. Bad form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DallasBillsFan1 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 No disrespect to the military (I did not serve but greatly appreciate all they have done and continue to do), but this is one of many reasons why our country is now 18 trillion in debt. They simply should not be funding these events. Until we start seeing surpluses (likely never again), there is no $$ for this purpose. In fact, there is no money. We are borrowing to keep the country going. Anyway, GO BILLS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 As a combat veteran who has attended games where the Bills did their "Salute to Service" in hindsight, it feels insincere, considering they were paid to do so. I'm all for the NFL and their franchises being successful, but honoring the military should be something you do out of the goodness of your organization, not because someone paid you to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonechiller Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 With the cash cow that the NFL is, it should do this for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) Says the man who doesn't want this to turn political. my quote was blank Why? the tile itself invites it. so why criticize FTR based on knowing posters here .... there is no way this doesn't go political. Edited June 5, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsxfirefighter Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 This whole "Breaking Story" had me laughing from day one. From my understanding, this money was spent on Sponsorships. This had nothing to do with "Honoring Vets" or "Salute to Soldiers". Just with any other company, sponsorship money came with advertisements. Verizon, Bud Light, etc all do it. They pay money, their name/logo gets blasted. I felt this was the case with the National Guard and now found an old article that talked about a true "Sponsorship". http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-2/Bills-and-National-Guard-announce-partnership/8901b292-43a5-44be-91d5-ba4f678c81ca This just talks about 1 little portion, but I can safely assume there were similar deals to cover the other money for advertisement portions. This deal in 2011 (Ironically we got $29k from Air Force and spent at least $22k on the 11 week program to coaches) probably led to similar and larger types of advertisement deals/partnerships. http://www.sponsorship.com/IEGSR/2012/02/21/Despite-Budget-Cutbacks,-U-S--Armed-Forces-Remain.aspx U.S. Air ForceMaj. Bobby Holland, chief of event marketing, Air Force Recruiting Service210/565-4678 Target/Objectives/Key Activations: The U.S. Air Force has significantly reduced its sponsorship portfolio over the past few years, dropping ties with the Professional Drifting Championship Series, Professional Bull Riders and other properties. Despite the cutbacks, the Air Force continues to ink new deals. The military branch in Sept. 2011 announced a new partnership with the NFL Buffalo Bills, a deal that afforded signage in Ralph Wilson Stadium and presence on www.BuffaloBills.com. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000092380/printable/nfl-teams-to-honor-armed-forces-in-salute-to-service-campaign Buffalo BillsArmy, Air Force, Navy, Marines, and Coast GuardThe Army National Guard serves as the Bills' "Salute to Service" game-day sponsor. The pregame ceremony will feature 150 guardsmen unfurling a full-field flag as 50,000 seated fans present a stadium-wide thank you message to the troops with placards. During halftime, the National Guard will also take part in an oath re-affirmation ceremony. All this has been mentioned in the past, however no one decided to put 2 and 2 together until the Financial numbers were released.. When something is a sponsor, money changes hands... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acantha Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 The military agencies have big budgets for advertising and this falls under that. Blame the military for advertising the way they do, not the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsxfirefighter Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Does anyone truly believe the major network play 30 second advertisements for the Air Force, Army, Marines, Navy, Coast Guard, or National Guard for free? Business are in it to earn a profit for their share holders/owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 The military agencies have big budgets for advertising and this falls under that. Blame the military for advertising the way they do, not the NFL. thats kind of where i fall. if the Military wants to sponsor a game, just like anyone else, and they call their campaign "salute to service" then so be it..... Again (I may sound like I'm up in arms about this, I'm really not), advertising is what it is. It's obvious and everyone knows money changes hands. That wasn't the case here. If the Bills (and other teams) need a cash incentive to salute the military then there's a problem. who else should the bills spend time saluting for free? and who else should be saluting everyone? if they throw them some bones, cool -- but the military has a budget and they choose to spend it on events like this. such is life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) Again (I may sound like I'm up in arms about this, I'm really not), advertising is what it is. It's obvious and everyone knows money changes hands. That wasn't the case here. If the Bills (and other teams) need a cash incentive to salute the military then there's a problem. The only advertising that is obvious, is the advertising that is obvious. There is an enormous amount of money spent by advertisers that is far more subtle, from product placement, to "viral" marketing. In this age where people commonly walk around with their faces buried in their cell phones, advertising is more, and more disguised as something else. I wonder what part of the military's budget these events came out of? I would assume it was part of their recruitment budget. But, regardless, I would also assume that the military felt like they were getting something out of this. Time is money, as they say. If an NFL team is using up time to promote the military, be it a recruitment commercial, or an "honoring our troops" event, they are still providing a service. Why shouldn't they be compensated? Edited June 5, 2015 by Rocky Landing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 FTR based on knowing posters here .... there is no way this doesn't go political. Of course not, you're here to add your usual nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Does anyone truly believe the major network play 30 second advertisements for the Air Force, Army, Marines, Navy, Coast Guard, or National Guard for free? Business are in it to earn a profit for their share holders/owners. I'm not so sure that's what the story/this thread is talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsxfirefighter Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I'm not so sure that's what the story/this thread is talking about. Was just using it as an example. My personal opinion of the situation was money exchanged hands to provide some type of advertisement. However, I do not believe the Flag Unveiling and Salute to Troops was what the money for. I feel it was for the advertisements in and around the stadium and the participation in the Coaches honoring. Reasoning behind my beliefs is that I find it hard a few teams collected money and others did not when they all were participating in the Flag Unveiling and Salute to Troops portion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What a Tuel Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) Does anyone really think this was some vanity thing by the military to tote their officers around and get people to be proud of them? It was a recruitment tool to inspire a target audience at best. At the very least it was a tool to garner support for the military. Both things are not bad for the military, and are useful to the military. It was a calculated cost. Edited June 5, 2015 by What a Tuel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beastly Dareus Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I was shocked to read about teams taking money to honor people who served our country a few weeks ago. I am glad that they may be stopping the payments. It's a disgrace that teams take money to honor our heros. They should be doing it for absolutely no cost. I always thought teams did in as a good deed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy10 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Costs a lot of money to tote the Blue Angels around the country. Should we get rid of them too? Does anyone really think this was some vanity thing by the military to tote their officers around and get people to be proud of them? It was a recruitment tool to inspire a target audience at best. At the very least it was a tool to garner support for the military. Both things are not bad for the military, and are useful to the military. It was a calculated cost. Exactly. Do people think a bunch of generals were somehow hoodwinked into forking over cash? Everybody knew exactly what they were doing. This is only a story because politicians (regardless of ideology or party) and associated media see the NFL as an easy target right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What a Tuel Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) Costs a lot of money to tote the Blue Angels around the country. Should we get rid of them too? Exactly. Do people think a bunch of generals were somehow hoodwinked into forking over cash? Everybody knew exactly what they were doing. This is only a story because politicians (regardless of ideology or party) and associated media see the NFL as an easy target right now. Next thing you know, people will be investigating why the government is paying for those proud to be a Marine commercials. Shouldn't these networks just be willing to do it on their own? Edit: I think people are just mad because they themselves were hoodwinked into thinking it was something genuine. However, you don't need the NFL's charity to make it genuine to yourself. Edited June 6, 2015 by What a Tuel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted June 6, 2015 Author Share Posted June 6, 2015 thats kind of where i fall. if the Military wants to sponsor a game, just like anyone else, and they call their campaign "salute to service" then so be it..... who else should the bills spend time saluting for free? and who else should be saluting everyone? if they throw them some bones, cool -- but the military has a budget and they choose to spend it on events like this. such is life. I'm not sure you're serious, think you're arguing for argument's sake, but, I'll bite one more time. An ad is an ad. Everyone knows that it is an ad. A billboard is an ad. The Bills saluting service members by trotting them out to wave while holding out their hand for some cash is not an ad, it is deceiving. As someone said up thread...it is something that this team and the other 16 (interesting that not all 32 were interested in this cash cow; isn't it?) should have done because they realized it was the right thing to do. my quote was blank Why? the tile itself invites it. so why criticize FTR based on knowing posters here .... there is no way this doesn't go political. Your quote was blank. Why? Because it was deleted. So far there has been only one person interjecting politics into this thread. That person should probably refrain from doing it again. I'm not so sure that's what the story/this thread is talking about. I'm certain that is is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 I'm not sure you're serious, think you're arguing for argument's sake, but, I'll bite one more time. An ad is an ad. Everyone knows that it is an ad. A billboard is an ad. The Bills saluting service members by trotting them out to wave while holding out their hand for some cash is not an ad, it is deceiving. As someone said up thread...it is something that this team and the other 16 (interesting that not all 32 were interested in this cash cow; isn't it?) should have done because they realized it was the right thing to do. Perhaps the military should choose to call the time they bought something else? If you think the military is doing this as anything other than recruiting advertising I think you are probably giving them too much credit still too. Genuinely I'm asking why the bills SHOULD do complimentary tributes to the military and if they should do firefighters, police, first responders, teachers, etc.... And if other non sports businesses should be doing all of those? It's kind of the natural questions to follow the assertion that the team should give the military a free platform here, isn't it? I know it isn't kosher to question honoring vets but I think that's a fair discussion point if opening the conversation on the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy10 Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Next thing you know, people will be investigating why the government is paying for those proud to be a Marine commercials. Shouldn't these networks just be willing to do it on their own? Haha, and did people also think that New York National Guard backdrop at Bills press conferences for the last couple years was just wallpaper left over from a habitat for humanity project? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted June 6, 2015 Author Share Posted June 6, 2015 Haha, and did people also think that New York National Guard backdrop at Bills press conferences for the last couple years was just wallpaper left over from a habitat for humanity project? No jimmy, everyone understands what an ad looks like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What a Tuel Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 (edited) I'm not sure you're serious, think you're arguing for argument's sake, but, I'll bite one more time. An ad is an ad. Everyone knows that it is an ad. A billboard is an ad. The Bills saluting service members by trotting them out to wave while holding out their hand for some cash is not an ad, it is deceiving. As someone said up thread...it is something that this team and the other 16 (interesting that not all 32 were interested in this cash cow; isn't it?) should have done because they realized it was the right thing to do. Your quote was blank. Why? Because it was deleted. So far there has been only one person interjecting politics into this thread. That person should probably refrain from doing it again. I'm certain that is is not. I am not sure that I would call this a cash cow. $5 million in 4 years between 14 teams? "The United States Department of Defense paid the National Football League more than $5 million in taxpayer money between 2011 to 2014 to honor U.S. soldiers and veterans at games, an investigation revealed this week." "The investigation revealed the Atlanta Falcons collected just over a million dollars, the most cash for any team, and the Green Bay Packers received the single largest payment of $400,000.00" "In New Jersey, the Defense Department and the New Jersey Army National Guard paid the New York Jets a total of $377,000 during the four-year period, according to the federal contracts" Edited June 6, 2015 by What a Tuel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 So the way all of this reads is the NFL is a super rich person telling a hooker that they should pay them to have sex with them because they are more popular. Is that about right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 The bigger problem is that people don't even notice the saturation of American culture with "honoring the military." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 No jimmy, everyone understands what an ad looks like. I'm not sure you do. Marketing campaigns encompass far more than billboards, radio, television, and print ads. There are literally companies that pay warehouses full of people in foreign countries like India to click on produced media to force if to go "viral," so that the ads that accompany the page will be seen. If you see someone on your favorite TV show drink from a can of Pepsi, or get into a cab with an ad on the side, that product was placed very deliberately. Even the cars that actors drive in movies represent sponsorship. There are companies that scour social media sites and mine individual's data so that your personal computer will display advertising tailored to your personal preferences. For that matter, I would submit that there is very little that is "honest" about standard advertising. Why would we expect the military to be any different? The bigger problem is that people don't even notice the saturation of American culture with "honoring the military." Very well stated. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 http://grantland.com/the-triangle/veterans-affairs-the-uneasy-marriage-of-military-money-and-the-nfl/ Anybody post this yet? It is your tax dollars that is going into the uneasy marriage of the military and the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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