5 reason Bills won McCoy-Alonso Trade

[Bills Fan of St Augustine]

D improves just because....It almost has to if the OL steps up at all. Keeping the ball longer will improve this team's defensive statistics a lot. McCoy behind Felton will be telling if the OL can hold a block this year. If the OL doesn't pull together, this becomes yet another long season regardless of who wins the QB competition.

[Deranged Rhino]

D improves just because....It almost has to if the OL steps up at all. Keeping the ball longer will improve this team's defensive statistics a lot. McCoy behind Felton will be telling if the OL can hold a block this year. If the OL doesn't pull together, this becomes yet another long season regardless of who wins the QB competition.

 

John Madden used to say that it's not the line that makes the RB, but the RB who makes the line. We'll find out if that holds any water this year.

[ddaryl]

 

 

It is very simple concept to grasp:

 

If CJ approximates the production of Shady and Kiko plays like Kiko - why wouldn't we have been better off not trading Kiko and signing CJ for a similar contract that NO signed him for -- especially given that (as I recall) CJ and Kiko's combined cap hit is less than Shady's and we are still looking for LB depth at a minimum.

 

 

CJ is a glass jaw and not a 3 down back, and Kiko's return to form this year is a longshot. You don't recover from multiple ACL's without issues going forward

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Please provide the proof that he would have EVEN SIGNED HERE.....

 

I swear to christ sometimes BB

 

 

Obviously we traded for McCoy before free agency so there would be no talk of him coming here But if we had waited we could have easily signed him.

[Deranged Rhino]

 

 

Obviously we traded for McCoy before free agency so there would be no talk of him coming here But if we had waited we could have easily signed him.

 

There's no way to know that. There's certainly no way to know the signing would have been easy.

And honestly, if I had to choose between Shady and Murray, give me Shady.

[John from Riverside]

 

 

Obviously we traded for McCoy before free agency so there would be no talk of him coming here But if we had waited we could have easily signed him.

Your right

 

A opportunity presented itself to the bills (which took about 30 minutes to happen or something like that) to get a TOP THREE RUNNING BACK IN THE NFL.......so they hopped all over it.......

 

The bills have been very agressive of late.....have a 9-7 season to show for it with the arrow pointing up.

 

Murray has had ONE season where he has been injury free? Shady has shown Thurman Thomas like durability.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

 

There's no way to know that. There's certainly no way to know the signing would have been easy.

And honestly, if I had to choose between Shady and Murray, give me Shady.

 

There is no way to know that he wouldn't. You guys are just drinking the koolaid, if we had gotten some other back you would think he was the greatest. If we hadn't traded kiko away I doubt most people would be falling all over themselves to get rid of him. RBs are easy to find and trading for a paying huge money for one is foolish. Shady will have a couple good yrs then we will be looking for a new one.

Edited May 26, 2015 by Buffalo Barbarian

[eball]

Lots of wasted breath in this thread. Those who over-valued Kiko will continue to insist it was a bad trade for the Bills. In reality the trade has the potential to be very good for both teams.

 

There is no way to know that he wouldn't. You guys are just drinking the koolaid, if we had gotten some other back you would think he was the greatest. If we hadn't traded kiko away I doubt most people would be falling all over themselves to get rid of him. RBs are easy to find and trading for a paying huge money for one is foolish. Shady will have a couple good yrs then we will be looking for a new one.

 

The Bills will get three full seasons out of Shady before he turns 29 1/2.

[Deranged Rhino]

 

There is no way to know that he wouldn't. You guys are just drinking the koolaid, if we had gotten some other back you would think he was the greatest. If we hadn't traded kiko away I doubt most people would be falling all over themselves to get rid of him. RBs are easy to find and trading for a paying huge money for one is foolish. Shady will have a couple good yrs then we will be looking for a new one.

 

I grant you that there's no way to know for sure that Murray wouldn't have come here. Just like you have to concede there's no way to know for certain that we would have. Right? Why is it drinking Koolaid to point that out, especially when your entire argument rests upon this hypothetical?

 

The only non-hypothetical element in this discussion is Shady's history. He's a proven commodity, this isn't fans latching onto the next guy in a Bills jersey, McCoy is a multiple all-pro RB in the prime of his career. No one, absolutely no one, argued otherwise until he became a Bill.

[Punching Bag]

Please provide the proof that he would have EVEN SIGNED HERE.....

 

I swear to christ sometimes BB

Provide the proof he WOULDN"T - there is as much proof either way

[jumbalaya]

We ignore the miles because it does not appear to be an issue.

I think McCoy's decline will depend on how he is used......and if you can get 3 years out of him platoon him with Karlos Williams by next year then Karlos takes more the load we will be fine.

 

We are in win now mode.

If we have to platoon McCoy next year, why did we trade for him?

[johnwalter]

I think the ACLs are the real difference.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

-Kim is cheap! They just wanted to hang onto that rookie contract. So much for "win now"

- they were offered an all-pro offensive player and turned it down to keep a guy on defense where we were actually better when he wasn't there? Whaley is a moron. So much for improving the offense.

- whaley only refused to give up Kiko because of his ego. He drafted him, so he needs to look good by not trading him away so soon

- all the Bills care about is PR and selling tickets. Everyone loves the "legend" stuff and they know it, so they don't have the balls to make a move like that. Successful organizations don't care about fan favorites.

-4 more years of CJ for -2. Doomed.

Nailed it.

[CardinalScotts]

The emperors new clothes. Seems to me that in a historic free agent year for pro bowl RBs on the open market at a time when RBs are historically undervalued, the Eagles picked up a top tier RB to replace the one they lost while also adding a pro bowl linebacker. Maybe someone can explain to me how giving up Kiko for shady is better than keeping Kiko and adding demarco a North South runner who wee need to set up 3rd?

Murray is a turd first and foremost, why would Dallas an organization that allows all comers dump Murray after a great season behind a young talented offensive line ? I wouldn't take Murray to start with, Kiko doesn't fit the defensive scheme and I can add a all pro running back - done.

[Dibs]

Provide the proof he WOULDN"T - there is as much proof either way

The difference is that the argument is people saying that the McCoy trade is bad for us because we could have gotten Murray for nothing and kept Kiko. Even being extraordinarily generous and saying we had a 50/50 chance to land Murray, that still leaves a 50% chance that we don't land Murray.

 

Regardless of just how better or worse Murray is compared to McCoy, this was a bird in the hand situation. Why risk not getting a first class RB when there is one on the table available for a relatively cheap trade?

 

That 50% was being extraordinarily generous as I said. Likely the true percentage was closer to 15%. I am finding it difficult to understand how people are making a thing out of this.

[Best Player Available]

Sorry. That is correct. Runner up for DROY. He was also PFWA (Pro Football Writer's Assoc.) DROY, which is what I was remembering.

he was also a BMF!

[John from Riverside]

 

There is no way to know that he wouldn't. You guys are just drinking the koolaid, if we had gotten some other back you would think he was the greatest. If we hadn't traded kiko away I doubt most people would be falling all over themselves to get rid of him. RBs are easy to find and trading for a paying huge money for one is foolish. Shady will have a couple good yrs then we will be looking for a new one.

See it is crap like this that just kills your arguments.....

 

It is Koolaid to be happy that the bills have one of the best running backs of the league (and still in his prime on age standards) coming to the Buffalo Bills

 

Yes this is Kool aid......give me more please

[mattsox]

http://nysportsbiz.com/2015/03/03/5-reasons-bills-better-mccoy-alonso-trade/

 

In the last two seasons, Shady has totaled 2,926 rushing yards while averaging 4.6 yards per carry with 14 touchdowns. He’s also racked up 694 receiving yards and two touchdowns. That’s a total of 3,620 all-purpose yards or 1,800 a season, which this struggling Bills offense could certainly use.

I agree. I think Shady will show up and be a force. He wants to prove Chip Kelly wrong and our OC knows how to use a RB. This could be the season with the return of the RB. (Atleast for the Bills anyways...)

[John from Riverside]

If we have to platoon McCoy next year, why did we trade for him?

It is a pretty common thing to platoon backs to keep everyone healthy.......it wont take away from workhorsing shady

[Dorkington]

It is a pretty common thing to platoon backs to keep everyone healthy.......it wont take away from workhorsing shady

It'd also be smart to if we get any production out of FredEx, Brown, Williams, or Boobie. McCoy is basically guaranteed to be good. FredEx can be productive when healthy but is getting up there. If Brown or Karlos come out on fire, it'd be dumb not to take some of the pressure off of McCoy.

[Billsguy]

How can anybody declare a winner of a trade when neither player has played a single down for their respective teams?

 

You can't!

 

What a ridiculous post.

[CodeMonkey]

How can anybody declare a winner of a trade when neither player has played a single down for their respective teams?

 

You can't!

 

What a ridiculous post.

It's just a homer post is all. If that deal had fallen through and someone else had traded for McCoy then these types of posts would be how the Bills dodged the bullet and were so lucky to have kept Alonzo.

 

Harmless really

[Dibs]

How can anybody declare a winner of a trade when neither player has played a single down for their respective teams?

 

You can't!

 

What a ridiculous post.

Okay, lets start with the extremes and work back.

 

If we traded EJ for Rodgers and 10 1st round picks would we not be able to say that we got the better of the trade?

How about EJ straight up for Rodgers?

How about Woods for Rodgers?

 

Obviously one can. Things may happen to alter the assessment of the trade(like player injury etc) but one can clearly assess many trades prior to the players taking the field.

 

A Shepherd for Hughes trade looks even initially. We can see that by determining that they were two guys who had not performed in the NFL to that point and looked like busts. Once they took the field after the trade, it became apparent that Hughes was the far better player and that the Bills actually won the trade.

 

Unlike the Shepherd for Hughes trade, the Kko for McCoy trade does not seem even. McCoy is a multi all-pro in his prime, while Kiko is a potential talent coming off injury. That is not an even trade. Once they take the field we might get a different situation and adjust things. Kiko might be a HOFer while Shady might get injured etc and the Eagles could end up winning the trade. That concept does not mean that we cannot intellectually assess the initial trade and determine whether both teams gave roughly equal value in the trade.

Edited May 26, 2015 by Dibs

[What a Tuel]

The difference is that the argument is people saying that the McCoy trade is bad for us because we could have gotten Murray for nothing and kept Kiko. Even being extraordinarily generous and saying we had a 50/50 chance to land Murray, that still leaves a 50% chance that we don't land Murray.

 

Regardless of just how better or worse Murray is compared to McCoy, this was a bird in the hand situation. Why risk not getting a first class RB when there is one on the table available for a relatively cheap trade?

 

That 50% was being extraordinarily generous as I said. Likely the true percentage was closer to 15%. I am finding it difficult to understand how people are making a thing out of this.

 

Exactly. Hopefully this puts it to rest!

 

If Whaley would have waited on Murray hitting free agency, and McCoy went to another team, while Murray still went to the Eagles, and people found out he had an opportunity to trade Alonso for McCoy, and let it slip? And then proceeded to overpay CJ because he had no other choice? People would have lost their $#@!.

[CodeMonkey]

 

Exactly. Hopefully this puts it to rest!

 

If Whaley would have waited on Murray hitting free agency, and McCoy went to another team, while Murray still went to the Eagles, and people found out he had an opportunity to trade Alonso for McCoy, and let it slip? And then proceeded to overpay CJ because he had no other choice? People would have lost their $#@!.

That's a pretty big leap there There are a lot of good running backs around. I prefer to think the Bills would have found another one rather than overpay Spiller

[What a Tuel]

That's a pretty big leap there There are a lot of good running backs around. I prefer to think the Bills would have found another one rather than overpay Spiller

 

Maybe.

 

I know Forsett was a pretty sneaky under the radar top 5 RB last year. We will see if he replicates it.

 

Gore might have been ok, but we don't need another over the hill RB on the roster (no disrespect to Fred). They both perform.

 

Not a fan of Ryan Mathews, always seems to be injured. Maybe just unlucky.

 

I think I put Spiller above those guys though. Maybe in the draft.

[The Real Buffalo Joe]

YEP!

This!

[OCinBuffalo]

Well, here's one Eagles fan's perspective(STOP! NSFW¹⁵⁰ Don't even think about clicking on this at work. In fact, don't even look at this post at all if you are at work, because even that may get you in trouble. Actually, the safest course is to log off right now, because this guy drops an aresenal of bombs): http://dailysnark.com/eagles-fans-makes-hilarious-reaction-video-lesean-mccoy-trade/

 

Hilarious. I may have to grab a still of this as my new avatar.

Edited May 27, 2015 by OCinBuffalo

[Thurman#1]

I must have missed the year that Kiko made the probowl

 

 

You're right, he didn't make the pro bowl. But he made the NFL Top 100 and the Harrison's All Under-25 Team.

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-top100-2014/0ap2000000350289/Eric-Wood-Marcell-Dareus-Jairus-Byrd-Manny-Lawson-Kellen-Winslow-Kyle-Williams

 

Both pretty phenomenal for a rookie.

Okay, lets start with the extremes and work back.

 

If we traded EJ for Rodgers and 10 1st round picks would we not be able to say that we got the better of the trade?

How about EJ straight up for Rodgers?

How about Woods for Rodgers?

 

Obviously one can. Things may happen to alter the assessment of the trade(like player injury etc) but one can clearly assess many trades prior to the players taking the field.

 

A Shepherd for Hughes trade looks even initially. We can see that by determining that they were two guys who had not performed in the NFL to that point and looked like busts. Once they took the field after the trade, it became apparent that Hughes was the far better player and that the Bills actually won the trade.

 

Unlike the Shepherd for Hughes trade, the Kko for McCoy trade does not seem even. McCoy is a multi all-pro in his prime, while Kiko is a potential talent coming off injury. That is not an even trade. Once they take the field we might get a different situation and adjust things. Kiko might be a HOFer while Shady might get injured etc and the Eagles could end up winning the trade. That concept does not mean that we cannot intellectually assess the initial trade and determine whether both teams gave roughly equal value in the trade.

 

 

Kiko isn't a potential talent. He's already one of the better LBs in the league. Now, if the injury affects his abilities, it will look better for the Bills but that injury generally comes back all the way these days. Kiko isn't potential. Potential doesn't get you over 150 tackles.

 

I agree it's not an even trade but think the Eagles got the better of it. McCoy is old for an RB. He's close to the point where most RBs start to see falloffs in their performance. Whereas Alonso could be good for a very long time. And it had been a closer deal till they re-negged Shady. Now the Eagles have three or four years of a cheap excellent LB who they could then re-sign while the Bills are paying huge money for their (very very good right now) RB.

How can anybody declare a winner of a trade when neither player has played a single down for their respective teams?

 

You can't!

 

What a ridiculous post.

 

 

 

 

Isn't giving our opinions on stuff like this why most of us are here?

[Doc]

You're right, he didn't make the pro bowl. But he made the NFL Top 100 and the Harrison's All Under-25 Team.

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-top100-2014/0ap2000000350289/Eric-Wood-Marcell-Dareus-Jairus-Byrd-Manny-Lawson-Kellen-Winslow-Kyle-Williams

 

Both pretty phenomenal for a rookie.

 

Kiko isn't a potential talent. He's already one of the better LBs in the league. Now, if the injury affects his abilities, it will look better for the Bills but that injury generally comes back all the way these days. Kiko isn't potential. Potential doesn't get you over 150 tackles.

 

I agree it's not an even trade but think the Eagles got the better of it. McCoy is old for an RB. He's close to the point where most RBs start to see falloffs in their performance. Whereas Alonso could be good for a very long time. And it had been a closer deal till they re-negged Shady. Now the Eagles have three or four years of a cheap excellent LB who they could then re-sign while the Bills are paying huge money for their (very very good right now) RB.

Kiko is a far bigger question mark than McCoy and it's not even close. Not only does Kiko have to recover from a 2nd ACL injury to the same knee (do we even know whether he suffered it during contact or not?) he'll likely be making a change to a position at which he's unproven, since he can't last the season as a MLB/ILB. The potential is there, but he has to realize it.

 

As for McCoy, basically all you are going off of is him possibly fading soon because of his age, when the good to great RB's have been playing well into their late 20's.

[Beerball]

 

And honestly, if I had to choose between Shady and Murray, give me Shady.

I am there too & I don't think it's blind homerism. Better receiver, durable.

 

There is no way to know that he wouldn't. You guys are just drinking the koolaid, if we had gotten some other back you would think he was the greatest. If we hadn't traded kiko away I doubt most people would be falling all over themselves to get rid of him. RBs are easy to find and trading for a paying huge money for one is foolish. Shady will have a couple good yrs then we will be looking for a new one.

Along with every other team including Philly. I'm confused trying to figure out what your point is?

 

Did the Bills get better today? Yes, they did.

 

Why does there need to be more?

[Mr. WEO]

Reasons 1-5 are: Kiko had a great portion of a rookie year: McCoy's value is at least an order of manitude higher.

[Beerball]

It's just a homer post is all. If that deal had fallen through and someone else had traded for McCoy then these types of posts would be how the Bills dodged the bullet and were so lucky to have kept Alonzo.

 

Harmless really

It's actually much more than that. 6 pages of healthy debate proves the point.

[Gugny]

How can anybody declare a winner of a trade when neither player has played a single down for their respective teams?

 

You can't!

 

What a ridiculous post.

Yes. It's ridiculous to think that when Team A trades an overrated, over-hyped, unproven, injury-prone linebacker coming off of a serious injury (2nd) to his knee, to Team B, for a proven durable, top-5 in the league running back, that team A won the trade.

 

Like Crazy Eddie used to day .... It's INSAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1