Deranged Rhino Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 The Bills gave up a LB who is still on his rookie deal and was the 2013 Defensive Rookie of the Year, but is coming off an ACL injury. They gained a RB who has been playing at an elite level (albeit in a different offense) and gave him a huge deal (like an elite RB would be expected to get). To be a winner in this trade McCoy is going to have to translate to the Bills system and be as good as he has been the last couple of seasons. It is difficult to see the Eagles as anything but winners in this trade. They replaced McCoy with Demarco Murray in free agency. Both RBs have been elite backs, both will be 27 going into the season, both got 5 year/$40M contracts and Murray's has $5M less guaranteed. They also got Kiko Alonso who is very promising and still very cheap. You can't factor the Murray signing into this deal when you're comparing the two for the same reasons you can't make the argument that the Bills would have been better off keeping Kiko and signing Murray themselves. The two are not related and were not guaranteed outcomes. When analyzing the trade, we can only look at the pieces involved. Kiko for McCoy -- hard to see it as anything other than a win for Buffalo. it's funny how Kiko was worshipped when he was a Bill, then suddenly, without even having played another game, he is overrated. It's funny how McCoy was considered a top 3 RB in the league when he was an Eagle, then suddenly, McCoy is thought of as over the hill, over rated, and injury prone -- without playing a snap. Funny how that works, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Malooga Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Wanna talk about how the Bills won the Hughes trade? Go for it. But, this? Lol, come on. Neither has even taken a snap yet, let alone played a full season to distinguish who won this trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 The last 2 points were the most pointed ones: The Bills defense was pretty good in 2014 without Alonso. That’s not to say that it wouldn’t have been even better with number 50 on the field, but with the emergence of rookie Preston Brown and third-year pro Nigel Bradham, Buffalo’s linebacker corps took care of business. With one of the top defensive minds in the NFL as its new head coach, this defense may even improve upon last year’s performance. And now they’ve added Shady on the other side of the ball to put up points for this unit to protect. Kiko Alonso is just coming off an ACL tear he suffered last off season. Plenty of players have injured their ACL’s and returned to have solid careers, but it’s never a sure thing. As much as Buffalo embraced the legend of Kiko, we’ll never know what it could have been. Instead, we will have to deal with an All-Pro running back who only once in his six year career has fallen short of reaching 1,000 all-purpose yards (rookie year: 945 APY). A couple of things..... Who cares what the eagles did to replace their running game? We are the bills not the eagles and trading for an asset and then seeing what they do for their own organization is pointless.......the BILLS got immediately better which is all that matters Is Kiko a pro bowl linebacker? I must have missed it but I dont remember him making the pro bowl in his rookie season.......regardless of off season accolades like ALMOST winning rookie of the year he did in fact tear his ACL........which is in fact his second ACL injury (so now both acl's have been injured at some point) he did in fact miss his second season......and the Whaley did in fact draft Preston Brown who was a superb ILB in his second season.....the bills were top 5 without Kiko and that is how a good GM makes his team better.....he moves assets around to improve both sides of the ball...which he did superbly. Also.......not only has Whaley done a great job in the drafting high but IMO he has done a superb job of finding LB's late.......watch out for some of our late round draftees start to make contributions as they showed well. I have no doubt that Kiko would have made our D even better........but lets look at this real time.....is there a huge difference between being 3rd overall D/25 overall O when it can be 5th overall D/13 overall O (completely guestimates....but you get my drift....BALANCE between O and D without sacrificing one for the other in a noticable way) This was absolutely the right move....and good luck to Kiko with the Eagles YEP! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Malooga Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 It's funny how McCoy was considered a top 3 RB in the league when he was an Eagle, then suddenly, McCoy is thought of as over the hill, over rated, and injury prone -- without playing a snap. Funny how that works, isn't it? Apples to oranges, not even close to the same situation. McCoy has carried the ball and taking more of a pounding than any other RB in the league since he was drafted. Alonso played one season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Wanna talk about how the Bills won the Hughes trade? Go for it.But, this? Lol, come on. Neither has even taken a snap yet, let alone played a full season to distinguish who won this trade. If we traded EJ for Rodgers would you be saying a similar thing? At some point I think we are allowed to look at a player who has been a multiple all-pro and say that he is better than a young unproven talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Apples to oranges, not even close to the same situation. McCoy has carried the ball and taking more of a pounding than any other RB in the league since he was drafted. Alonso played one season. It's not apples to oranges, it's the exact same thing that mannc brought up with Kiko. Before being traded to Buffalo, McCoy was universally thought to be a top 3 RB in the league. No one, absolutely no one questioned the mileage on his body (his injury record is stellar after all) until he got traded to Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 (edited) It's not apples to oranges, it's the exact same thing that mannc brought up with Kiko. Before being traded to Buffalo, McCoy was universally thought to be a top 3 RB in the league. No one, absolutely no one questioned the mileage on his body (his injury record is stellar after all) until he got traded to Buffalo. And then it was I think initially only brought up due to the Bills extending his contract. I am quite accepting of people who question the extention as they have reasonable points. The trade however did not involve extending his contract. If anything, the concept that the Eagĺes had to eat several millions in dead money due to the trade should be factored in. Edited May 25, 2015 by Dibs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Apples to oranges, not even close to the same situation. McCoy has carried the ball and taking more of a pounding than any other RB in the league since he was drafted. Alonso played one season. I agree. McCoy has repeatedly proven he is a valuable asset. Kiko is was a wishful thought. and i was one of those wishing. Smart trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmotionallyUnstable Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Why do we have to discuss who won the trade? Isn't it more about "did the bills become a better team?" That answer is yes. Regardless of how the Eagles made out, our team is in a better place because of this move Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Why do we have to discuss who won the trade? Isn't it more about "did the bills become a better team?" That answer is yes. Regardless of how the Eagles made out, our team is in a better place because of this move Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Any analysis of the trade needs to include the financial impact because McCoy came over on a sizable contract and Alonso's was still a rookie deal. No one knows how these two players will be in new environments and I get that fans are giddy over the prospect of McCoy in their backfield. But, at some point, the Bills moves this off-season will affect their ability to make moves down the road. Of course, that's not the issue because they know they're in win-now mode. Hopefully they get those wins this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Any analysis of the trade needs to include the financial impact because McCoy came over on a sizable contract and Alonso's was still a rookie deal. No one knows how these two players will be in new environments and I get that fans are giddy over the prospect of McCoy in their backfield. But, at some point, the Bills moves this off-season will affect their ability to make moves down the road. Of course, that's not the issue because they know they're in win-now mode. Hopefully they get those wins this season. It's fair to include the financial side of the deal -- but it's really only applicable to this off season. The Bills can, have, and will (I believe) continue to restructure deals to resign the guys they want to resign. So Shady's contract number in '18 really doesn't impact the valuation of the trade made in '15. Not unless the Bills don't tinker with their cap and restructuring between then and now at least. The question to be asked is if Shady's numbers this year prevented the Bills from doing anything differently in Free Agency. The answer seems to be no, with the possible exception being Bulaga. It's possible the Bills could have offered even more to Bulaga if they didn't have to pay Shady this year. He still might have chosen to stay with Green Bay, but the Bills might have offered him a "can't turn it down" type number. That's possible... but would you rather have Shady or Bulaga and Kiko? If that's the hardest question you're asking yourself as a fan after the trade, I think that's a pretty good deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Any analysis of the trade needs to include the financial impact because McCoy came over on a sizable contract and Alonso's was still a rookie deal. .... Yep. Bills were up for just under $8.5M/year for 3 years. Eagles had to eat $3.4M of dead cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLFan Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 The emperors new clothes. Seems to me that in a historic free agent year for pro bowl RBs on the open market at a time when RBs are historically undervalued, the Eagles picked up a top tier RB to replace the one they lost while also adding a pro bowl linebacker. Maybe someone can explain to me how giving up Kiko for shady is better than keeping Kiko and adding demarco a North South runner who wee need to set up 3rd and 1.The biggest fault in this logic is, of course, that there is no guarnetee Murray would have signed with the Bills. Chances were probably small in fact. Second, Kiko is not a pro bowl linebacker. He is a guy that, unexpectedly, had a very good first half of the season in his career. The second half was forgettable, and of course he missed his second season due to his second ACL tear. The final unsustainable argument in your logic is that Murray is anything close to McCoy in terms of career accomplishment. He had an extraordinary year in 2014 no doubt, but this is a major outlier to the rest of his career. This hardly makes Murray a "top tier RB" - just a guy with one great year with what many people believe was the best OL in football last year. The Kiko for MCoy trade is solid on its face, and could turn out to be the steal of the year. Murray really has nothing to do with it, but even so, i would not trade McCoy for Murray, even if you threw Kiko into the deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 (edited) This sounds like an article that should be written 1-2 years from now. We hope it works out in the Bills favor (i.e. We win more games with McCoy than we did without McCoy and make the playoffs, which is the only stat I care about). But, in the meantime... http://mobile.twitter.com/WoelAJilliams/status/602951656171556864/video/1 Edited May 25, 2015 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Seems like both teams got something out of the deal, directly and indirectly, so I'm not sure why both aren't winners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What a Tuel Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 The emperors new clothes. Seems to me that in a historic free agent year for pro bowl RBs on the open market at a time when RBs are historically undervalued, the Eagles picked up a top tier RB to replace the one they lost while also adding a pro bowl linebacker. Maybe someone can explain to me how giving up Kiko for shady is better than keeping Kiko and adding demarco a North South runner who wee need to set up 3rd and 1. I feel like this is one of those things that just won't go away. There is no guarantee we sign Murray to come here. There was a very good chance that Spiller goes to New Orleans, Chip trades McCoy to someone else (god forbid the Jets or Dolphins), and Murray still signs with Philly. Then what? Sign Frank Gore or Ryan Matthews? Panic and overpay Spiller before he goes? We took away from a overwhelming strength to improve our weakness which freed us to make other important moves in free agency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DallasMac Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Murray had a great year, but let's not forget that he has not been able to stay healthy. He had one great year behind an awesome offensive line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 (edited) I thought it was pretty clearly reported that murray turned down more money from Jax and oakland to go to Phil. He (reportedly) chose there because of sam Bradford. I don't get why people keep saying we could have signed murray. I highly doubt he would have come to Bflo. He's also older, more injury prone, and coming off a very high mileage season where he was completely run into the ground. I hated trading Kiko but you don't get all pros for free. Edited May 25, 2015 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 (edited) I just don't get the argument that Murray is going to be fresher than Shady. Shady is a year younger and the nature of how he runs he takes less of a pounding than Demarco does. Murray got pounded hard because of the nature of his running style. I'll take Shady any day. Edited May 25, 2015 by Green Lightning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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